Primary Technology

Stephen Robles: 00:00

Can't innovate anymore, my welcome to Primary Technology, the show about the tech news that matters. This week is TikTok banned. Is it happening this Sunday? We're gonna cover that. Plus the Sonos CEO and several other executives are out with a new interim CEO.

Stephen Robles: 00:14

Apple really stepped up its marketing game with severance and silo in the real world. ChatJPT is getting tasks, and Mark Zuckerberg is calling out Apple saying they don't innovate anymore. So we're gonna talk about what has Apple done to innovate since Steve Jobs. This episode is brought to you by Notion, and you, the members who support us directly, I'm one of your hosts, Steven Robles, and joining me as always from Narnia, my friend Jason Aitin. How's it going, Jason?

Jason Aten: 00:38

It's cold, but it's good.

Stephen Robles: 00:39

It's good. Jason posts a photo, pretty much annually about the snow, Huge snow around surrounding his office, which is a shed in his backyard. And that's very nice.

Jason Aten: 00:48

I have one social media stick that works. And it's just every year when we get our first big as if I've never done it before, I just post about how we're now entering our Narnia era. And

Stephen Robles: 00:57

No. No. You have popular social media posts when you say controversial things and then they

Jason Aten: 01:01

That's true.

Stephen Robles: 01:01

Troll you.

Jason Aten: 01:02

That's true. And there but there was nothing controversial about my Narnia post.

Stephen Robles: 01:05

No. No. No. Fair enough. It's just nice snow.

Stephen Robles: 01:07

I forgot to ask you about the movie quote last week, so I have to do that in a second. But, obviously, you know where the quote is from this week.

Jason Aten: 01:12

Yeah. It's not a movie quote, though.

Stephen Robles: 01:14

It's not a movie quote.

Jason Aten: 01:15

It's still Schiller. And wasn't he referring to the Mac Pro maybe?

Stephen Robles: 01:18

That's right. I mean, it's you know?

Jason Aten: 01:20

Which is ironic considering how stagnant that product is.

Stephen Robles: 01:25

That is that is true. Anyway, that's part that's for the second half of the show. We have

Jason Aten: 01:28

to get a

Stephen Robles: 01:28

lot of information. But last week, I had, a quote. I said, you woke up at C Tech, s f o l a x, O'Hare, Lose Power. Yeah. Do you know what it's from?

Jason Aten: 01:37

Fight Club.

Stephen Robles: 01:38

There you go. Yeah. You got it. I've actually never seen it. I'm gonna be honest.

Stephen Robles: 01:41

I have to see that. Someone with a movie podcast is probably required. So Yeah.

Jason Aten: 01:46

I would actually I would. It'd be worth the membership I pay for months to just hear you 2 talk about Fight Club.

Stephen Robles: 01:52

Really? Okay. I'll find it.

Jason Aten: 01:53

It's there's just so I would love to hear Nate talk about Fight Club, to be honest.

Stephen Robles: 01:57

I have to okay. But before we get into the news, Jason, I have to tell you something that's been weighing on my mind, and I just have to I have to get it out. Okay?

Jason Aten: 02:04

You have

Stephen Robles: 02:04

no idea what I'm about to tell you. I did a big, USB microphone review, for Riverside. I I had, like, 12 microphones that I ordered off Amazon, and I was going to return them all yesterday, packed them all up in boxes, got all the things, and I realized once I got home that I forgot to put one of the microphones in the box. So this is the Yeti studio, and when I got home and sat back at my desk from the UPS store, my heart just sank. And, Jason, I don't know what's gonna happen.

Stephen Robles: 02:37

Am I gonna go to jail? Are there gonna be people coming to my door and and I don't know what's gonna happen. I'm so scared. It's all I can think about.

Jason Aten: 02:45

Hold on. Hold on. You paid for this microphone? Yes. And you sent back an empty box?

Stephen Robles: 02:51

Apparently. That that was not my intention. I've returned many things to Amazon over the years.

Jason Aten: 02:55

You're way, way, way overthinking this. You just own it now. Well I'm just saying you bought a bike. You paid for it.

Stephen Robles: 03:01

Want it, though. I don't want it. So I'm I don't know what happens. I guess Amazon will send me an email, like, hey, doofus. Like, you didn't put this in the box.

Jason Aten: 03:09

Oh, you ordered it from Amazon? Yeah. You're you're probably fine. Just just they're gonna just give you the refund and be, like,

Stephen Robles: 03:16

I'm so scared. I'm just so scared because, like, they're gonna open this box and, like, this man is a criminal. But I don't know

Jason Aten: 03:21

if they they'll just not give you a refund, Steven.

Stephen Robles: 03:23

I know.

Jason Aten: 03:24

I know that's and

Stephen Robles: 03:25

there there's also 3 other mics in that same box, so hopefully, they will see, like, okay. He's at least partially honest. It was it was totally For

Jason Aten: 03:34

our listeners, what Steven is doing right now is he's trying to create an out like, a public record of I didn't so, like, later later when he's gone this this is gonna be introduced as evidence in whatever happened here.

Stephen Robles: 03:45

The the supreme court's gonna hear the TikTok case, and then it's gonna be me right after it talking about this microphone I didn't put in the box. I'm so scared. Anyway, we'll see what happens. We have lots to talk about, but also 5 star review shout outs, new for 2025, b me o 7 from the Netherlands, battery percentage on, which can I just say I was testing a MagSafe battery the other day, and I turned battery percentage on to monitor it? Looks terrible.

Stephen Robles: 04:09

I don't know how anybody does it. I'm sorry. I still don't like it. He's just staring at me. But anyway, percentage on doc.

Stephen Robles: 04:16

I don't know what he meant by that. But anyway, thank you, b me, o seven for the 5 star review. Sunny World 85 from Canada. He said he agrees with you, Jason, that the dots should be off in macOS.

Jason Aten: 04:27

Listen. I'm not a fan of it. This is this is one of the the some of the things we talked about, I just don't care about, but I do I I have just told you what it is I do. Right? But this one, I feel like I was I was surprised to the extent at which people still have the dots.

Jason Aten: 04:44

Like, it feels completely foreign to me, the idea that people would want that. Not that, like, not that it's I mean, I don't know. Like, the docs, the percentage on in your your, you know, on your phone and stuff or which pocket you carry to. Those feel like just, like, preference things. Right?

Jason Aten: 04:59

And they just develop over time. Whatever one you did for a while, you just keep doing it. Yeah. But having those dots there is so inferior of an experience that I just don't understand it. Like well, and I mean that, like, I don't mean that insultingly.

Stephen Robles: 05:11

You mean it because you care. You care for me.

Jason Aten: 05:13

I mean, like, anybody who still has them on and feels passionately about it, I would just tell you if you could make it 2 weeks with them off, you would never turn them back on. I know. I mean it. Like, you would never. It's like someone who drinks cream in their coffee forever, and they just decide, I'm gonna just try just black coffee.

Jason Aten: 05:29

If you can make it through 2 weeks, I don't think you'd ever put cream in your coffee again.

Stephen Robles: 05:33

Is this how I become an old man? I have to turn the dots off and then drink black coffee?

Jason Aten: 05:36

Are these tests? You ended up buying a Tesla. Right? It's like, hey. Just try it, man.

Stephen Robles: 05:41

Well, what's funny is I have the dots on, but I also hide the dock. So it's kinda like I don't see them anyway. Alright.

Jason Aten: 05:47

Yeah. There you go.

Stephen Robles: 05:48

But GJ from the UK, the 3rd 5 star review, said we're entertaining an insightful tech chat. So thank you, GJ. Also, battery percentage on, dominant hand pocket, personalized ads off, which we didn't ask for that, but I guess he turned that off on his iPhone. So and he says, Tom.

Jason Aten: 06:03

Good job. He said, Tom.

Stephen Robles: 06:04

Tofungus ads not present.

Jason Aten: 06:07

I feel like we can all agree on this one. There should be no debate. Does anybody want those ads?

Stephen Robles: 06:12

No. But I also I don't want a bunch of screenshots of people saying I get the toe fungus ads. Although, I'm curious if anybody else besides Jason gets them because maybe they are targeted, Jason. We don't know. Anyway, it's a solid let's get into the news.

Stephen Robles: 06:26

Listen, I think Apple heard our discussion, the marketing team specifically, and they probably have different marketing teams for different things. But the marketing for Apple TV plus original content has stepped up the game. They had a severance pop up glass cube in Grand Central Station earlier this week to advertise the 2nd season of severance. I just have to say, amazing. Amazing marketing.

Stephen Robles: 06:52

This is a little video I'll link to it and yeah. I just okay. You did it. That's amazing.

Jason Aten: 06:58

It was amazing. Also, I'm kinda surprised because isn't it Grand Central Terminal?

Stephen Robles: 07:03

Listen. Here's the here's the thing.

Jason Aten: 07:05

The station is within the terminal.

Stephen Robles: 07:07

Well, that's where this was.

Jason Aten: 07:08

But the terminal is the building. No.

Stephen Robles: 07:11

No. No. Station is

Jason Aten: 07:12

literally the subway station. Right?

Stephen Robles: 07:13

Grand Central Terminal is where the trains are. Grand Central Station is this, where people walk around.

Jason Aten: 07:19

I thought the station was where you got on and off the trains, and the terminal was the build. Okay. I'm not gonna argue.

Stephen Robles: 07:24

I I think I think I'm right. People can let us know in their 5 star, rating review. But anyway, they did that, and there was also a silo character that had a basketball game. Did you see this? Someone dressed up in, like, the, I want to go out.

Jason Aten: 07:37

Oh, my gosh. That's terrifying.

Stephen Robles: 07:39

It is terrifying. This was on, Mavericks. It was at a Mavericks basketball game, Dressed up in the in the silo suit, which is wild. I do have to say I watched, me and my wife started the second season of silo, the first episode. Did you watch it?

Stephen Robles: 07:51

Do you watch silo?

Jason Aten: 07:51

I have watched every episode now. I binged all the way through the middle of the second season and then got really mad. This is why I don't watch things while they're dropping. I wait because I

Stephen Robles: 08:02

Yeah.

Jason Aten: 08:02

Yeah. Listen. I understand why they do this. I'm gonna pay for Apple TV plus forever. Just give me all the bundle.

Jason Aten: 08:10

At once. I'm not like, Netflix has it right. Just drop it all, please.

Stephen Robles: 08:15

Well, I watched this first episode of the second season of Silo, and that dude that looks through the little window at the end and says,

Jason Aten: 08:22

please Solo.

Stephen Robles: 08:23

The one I don't know his name yet because I've only seen the one episode of the second season. But he says, don't try to open this door again or else I'm gonna kill you. I was too scared. I couldn't keep watching. I gotta

Jason Aten: 08:31

You gotta watch it. I was did you like season 1?

Stephen Robles: 08:34

Yeah. I loved it.

Jason Aten: 08:35

It season 2 is good. Okay. It it is It sort of like takes the momentum and energy of season 1 and it sort of stretches it out a bit. Like, it doesn't feel like it's moving quite as fast, but but the reason I think it feels like that is it's like getting into the really good stuff. It's like, I mean, she's in another silo.

Jason Aten: 08:55

Like, that's a big deal. Like, all of these things, and it's like, okay. Then maybe that's the reason why also my perspective is a little warped because I literally watched all of season 1 in the first half of season 2 in, like, a weekend. And now I have to now it's taken me 4 weeks to get through the next 4 episodes.

Stephen Robles: 09:11

Right. Right. Well, I I did really enjoy. Alright. So I'll I'll keep going because, oh, yeah, the marketing is good.

Jason Aten: 09:16

It's so good.

Stephen Robles: 09:17

We're talking about the TikTok ban because this might be happening Sunday, January 19th. I'm gonna put an article to an Axios timeline. They actually have kind of the dates and what's been happening, all of that, but the fate of TikTok, we've talked about it, I think, in the last couple episodes what we think is actually gonna happen, but this Sunday is the deadline. We're it's not a ban, quote unquote. TikTok is supposed to sell or divest, ByteDance is supposed to sell or divest TikTok, and if they don't, then the US companies like Apple and Google will have to remove TikTok from the app stores.

Stephen Robles: 09:46

Basically, as it stands right now, as we record Thursday morning, come Sunday, if nothing happens, which we'll talk about possibilities, TikTok will be removed from the app stores. If you have TikTok installed on your phone, it will work for a while, but it'll be like one of those things where you had an app on an old Apple device, like an old iPad or iPhone that couldn't get updates anymore. You know, the app just kind of slowly dies over time. That's what would happen if you already have TikTok on your phone, but you won't be able to update it. If you upgrade your phone, you won't be able to install it, and it will be essentially a ban.

Stephen Robles: 10:21

There's a bunch of TikTok creators doing, like, goodbye videos on the platform right now. There's a couple of things that could happen. The Biden administration said that they are trying to work to extend the deadline so it wouldn't go into effect this Sunday, and also the supreme court could rule before Sunday to extend, on its own. So the Biden administration could do something, supreme court could do something. Trump has said he was going to exist was an executive order to to extend Yeah.

Jason Aten: 10:48

He was gonna issue an executive order to say things.

Stephen Robles: 10:50

To say things, but he's not president until 20th, so he could not that could not go into effect obviously, before this TikTok ban. So we'll see what happens. Sunday, we will know for sure what happens and but it's looking like and you are putting your money, Jason, on it happening.

Jason Aten: 11:07

Well, okay. I don't know what it happening will be, but a couple of things. One, it's weird that the Biden Biden administration wants to extend the deadline on a law that he signed. Like you signed this law. And the entire reason that they picked that date was because it was the day before the next presidential inauguration.

Stephen Robles: 11:27

Like, all

Jason Aten: 11:28

of this was intentional. All of this was done exactly the way that, like, they had, like, designed it. And so it's sort of weird and it feels like this is what politicians do. They literally just want to kick things as far down the road. So it's someone else's problem as possible.

Jason Aten: 11:43

And then they get to the deadline like this happens with the the the debt ceiling every couple years. Right? They just they just that's what they do. I think I said on a recent episode, a previous episode that I don't think the Supreme Court's going to overrule this. And it will not just extend it.

Jason Aten: 11:58

They're going to uphold the law as constitutional

Stephen Robles: 12:00

as

Jason Aten: 12:01

I believe. And I, I think that the the oral arguments was it last week bear that out. They do not seem inclined to over overthrow overturn this law, overthrow overturn this law. Different branch of government does that.

Stephen Robles: 12:16

Sorry. Yeah.

Jason Aten: 12:16

Anyway, they don't seem inclined to do that. So I think that the Supreme Court is not going to overturn the law. I think that on 19th, the ban will go into effect. What happens after that? I think it's super unclear.

Jason Aten: 12:31

But TikTok has said that they will basically turn it off if that goes into effect, even though that's not what the actual band says. Right. Because the other piece of it that the way you described it is sort of true, except for the the law does 2 things. It prohibits them from distributing it during in the app store. So it's really focused on Apple and Google, but it also prohibits, like, ISP's and CDN from from basically hosting and sharing the content.

Jason Aten: 12:56

So it's like, yes, the app will open. Will there be anything in it unless it's, like, already cashed into there? So, like, the timeline of stops working could be a lot quicker than than people might think. So and I don't know, like, can the incoming like, it's so weird because can the incoming president just issue an executive order to say we're not gonna enforce this law Because then that will get challenged by someone. I don't know who because it was the government to pass the law, so who would have standing it's very weird.

Stephen Robles: 13:24

It's very weird. I'll also mention, lastly, on this, the there's another app now called RedNote. It is a Chinese app. Like, even the, like, description and stuff in the English US app store is in Chinese, and it is people are flocking to it. I say flocking lightly.

Stephen Robles: 13:43

There's a few people being very vocal about, like, well, I guess we're going over here. And they've created accounts and are trying to use Rednote as a TikTok replacement. This is too far for my blood, like this is I'm not gonna download this app and pretend it's a TikTok replacement. I don't know if I would recommend it, but

Jason Aten: 14:00

Also, isn't it? Isn't that the one there's several of these that have popped up, at least one of which is also basically the Chinese version of TikTok owned by ByteDance, the company that owns TikTok. Like, if if you are worried that TikTok is going away, a Chinese owned replacement is really not going to be the best place to go because what do you think will happen? Yeah. It's it's gonna get bad.

Jason Aten: 14:22

Like, it's the same thing.

Stephen Robles: 14:23

Yeah. It's just kinda kicking the can down the road. So anyway, we'll see what happens on Sunday. We'll cover next week, whatever the official thing was. Also, Sono CEO is out.

Stephen Robles: 14:32

So after their failed app launch earlier this year and just not doing well as company, Sono CEO Patrick Spence is leaving and there's been several other leavings, several other exits or oustings. There's the Sonos chief product officer is leaving. Also, the chief commercial officer, which was a newish title I was not familiar with. And now there's a new interim CEO, and she wrote an article about it, but just they're having a tough time. Sonos is trying their whole new leadership now, and we'll see what they do in this next season.

Stephen Robles: 15:03

But you wrote about it and the new is it an interim CEO or is it like He's interim.

Jason Aten: 15:08

He's interim, but I think he wants to be not interim. It's pretty clear. But here okay. Couple of things. Can I I have 2 questions for you?

Jason Aten: 15:14

1st of all, without looking anywhere k. Before he was the CEO of Sonos, Patrick Spence, he's the guy that just resigned.

Stephen Robles: 15:23

Right.

Jason Aten: 15:23

What where did he work? What is he most known for?

Stephen Robles: 15:26

I feel like not audio. Right? It wasn't audio related. Is that correct? Yeah.

Jason Aten: 15:30

Yeah. Yes. That's correct.

Stephen Robles: 15:32

I don't know. Let's say, PayPal. I don't know. I don't know.

Jason Aten: 15:35

I mean, that would have probably been better. No. He worked for a company called r I m. Do you know what they're famous for? Is that

Stephen Robles: 15:42

the restaurant thing?

Jason Aten: 15:44

No. They made the BlackBerry.

Stephen Robles: 15:46

Oh, really?

Jason Aten: 15:46

Product that could not

Stephen Robles: 15:47

Listen. Wait. Wait. Wait. Before I lose all credibility, let me just say, I know RIM.

Stephen Robles: 15:52

I had a BlackBerry. The saying it is RIM, but it threw me off.

Jason Aten: 15:55

Well, Research in Motion was the name.

Stephen Robles: 15:57

Research in Motion. Yeah. That that I know I know it's blackberry. Anyway

Jason Aten: 16:00

Okay. So this guy was, like, the head of sales for blackberry, a product that no longer exists. They stopped making them in, like, 2019 or 2017 or something. I don't even remember when.

Stephen Robles: 16:12

When. They

Jason Aten: 16:12

don't make Blackberries anymore because they could not figure out a way to respond to the iPhone. This guy was not a product guy. Right? He came into actually, he came into Sonos as the head of sales. He was the chief commercial officer when he came to and he eventually became the CEO.

Jason Aten: 16:27

And I just think it's kind of bananas because this is like a company who built a incredibly loyal audience based on being essentially people would call them the apple of of audio. And the reason is they they built products that just worked. So my question to you, I wanted to ask you because I don't have any Sonos stuff. Right. I do have respect for them.

Jason Aten: 16:46

I like good sounding things, but I just don't have any Sonos stuff. What when did you download the new app and did it break all of your stuff?

Stephen Robles: 16:55

I downloaded the new app just so I could see it, but I never used the Sonos app.

Jason Aten: 17:00

Okay.

Stephen Robles: 17:01

And and I think that may be one of the differences in experience where if I most of my Sonos gear is just set up with a TV, and so in the bedroom I have a Sonos Beam, I have a Sonos Arc on another TV, and it I I don't typically use them as music players. I just they're the the TV speakers, and so I just don't. And if I ever do wanna play something to it, I'll use AirPlay. I go to Apple Music, I play, and then I AirPlay it. I opened the app and I had to use the app when I was reviewing the Sonos Ace headphones, and it was clear that this thing was janky and it was not great, but I don't typically use the app.

Jason Aten: 17:39

Okay. And then my other question was going to be maybe this is, you've already sort of answered this because you don't use it to play music necessarily. But my understanding is Sonos stuff sounds great, but it sounds really good. That's But that isn't actually the main draw of Sonos stuff. Can you explain for people who don't have Sonos stuff why people are so devoted to it beyond just it sounds really good?

Jason Aten: 18:02

Because there are a lot of things that sound really good that you I mean, HomePod sound really good. Like

Stephen Robles: 18:05

Yeah. But, I mean, I will say Sonos sounds better than HomePods. Like, I did an entire video when the HomePods 2 came out and said, like, the Sonos Beam and a Submini, which is their, like, middle of the range speakers, that combo sounds better than HomePod twos. There's just more bass, you know, standalone sub. So if you just want better sound and that's something that's important to you, Sonos wins if you're if you're going that.

Stephen Robles: 18:32

And the Aira

Jason Aten: 18:33

Compared to compared to HomePods?

Stephen Robles: 18:35

Compared to HomePods. Yeah. I mean, you could get probably Bose systems, you can get your own

Jason Aten: 18:38

If you get a Bowers and Wilkins system spending $12,000, that's gonna sound better than Sonos.

Stephen Robles: 18:42

Yeah. But when it comes to, I think, sounding better but not crazy expensive, like, it's expensive, but not, like, you know, over $10,000, I think Sonos is a good option. And I do think the experience, it feels very Apple like. It feels very like the packaging is Apple like. It feels new and modern, and typically the setup is pretty easy.

Stephen Robles: 19:02

You open the Sonos app, you plug in a speaker, the little card comes up, which feels like an Apple, like little card for AirPods or HomePods. And yes, working together, if you want multi room audio, that was its specialty because the Sonos app, the previous version, used to do that pretty well. Like, you could see your speaker groups in your rooms, and if you were playing something, you could throw it to all of the speakers, to some, adjust the volume of each room individually, and it worked pretty well. I didn't do that, and you can also just do that with AirPlay. You can also just adjust the volume of different speaker sets, because that's how they appear in the AirPlay.

Stephen Robles: 19:37

But, yeah, I think it's just the hardware feeling felt premium, like Apple. It wasn't tens of 1,000 of dollars. It was 1,000, and it did sound really good.

Jason Aten: 19:45

Great. So I was just curious because, again, not having any Sonos stuff, I understood that it was, like, people are very passionate about it. And Yeah. Yeah. Just for any of our listeners who don't have Sonos stuff, and I don't I don't not recommend it by the way.

Jason Aten: 19:56

Like, I think if somebody wanted to send me Sonos stuff, I'll replace all my HomePods today.

Stephen Robles: 20:03

Jason, asking for yeah. Okay.

Jason Aten: 20:04

I'm just saying.

Stephen Robles: 20:05

Yeah. Yeah. But but you wrote an article about the the new Oh, yeah. Interim CEO, which what's what's his name and what did he write?

Jason Aten: 20:12

Tom Conrad is the new CEO. So Tom Conrad was he's a board member. He was also, part of Pandora, so he does understand music. And he, I think he was maybe at Pinterest. I think so.

Jason Aten: 20:25

This is a product guy is my point. So one of the reasons you're seeing this exit of people in the leadership is, one, they eliminated the chief product officer role because he's like, that doesn't make any sense. The product team is just gonna report to me. I know product. So I'm we're just gonna do that.

Jason Aten: 20:40

But he at the end of the first paragraph there that I that I shared, he talked about how when it all works, it's absolute magic, which is the thing that Sonos like, you just described that it was just that it was known for. The problem is when it doesn't work, it just messes up everything that people are using. Right? It's like Right. If AirPlay stopped working because Apple updated the music app, people would be really, really, really angry.

Jason Aten: 21:04

Right? Like, we know that people get angry whenever something that they're used to working. And it's like it seems like Sonos had lost sight of the fact that if you're going to update a product, it has to make the experience either better or neutral for people. Like, you can't make it worse and then spend a year saying we're going to fix it. It's like it didn't have to be broken.

Jason Aten: 21:22

You just you just it didn't have to

Stephen Robles: 21:24

be broken.

Jason Aten: 21:25

Well, I think the other thing

Stephen Robles: 21:26

is, like, Apple has a lot of software things that are buggy. We complain about on this show, like screen time and just in general bugs, but the thing with Sonos is the audio and speakers is literally all they do. Like, that is Right. They're very hyper specialized company, totally focused on audio and that experience. And so when that one thing is buggy and doesn't work, it really feels like, well, this whole deal is not good, like, the whole Sonos deal.

Stephen Robles: 21:52

So Yeah. We'll see what they do. I'm I'm also hopeful, curious if Sonos actually tries to release more products. Like, they really don't release a lot of hardware. They release the Sonos Ace headphones.

Stephen Robles: 22:02

They release the Sonos Arc Ultra and a revised sub, which as a Sonos owner, I have the previous Arc and the previous sub. I have zero desire to upgrade because they still sound great. And Yeah. This might go to our personal tech segment later about what's our oldest tech that we just don't care to replace. So I do think they need to innovate on that.

Stephen Robles: 22:21

Like, obviously, they're a hardware company. That's where they make their profits. There there's no subscription service. You don't pay for Sonos as an an app or anything. So there probably needs to be some innovation there when hardware release some products, so we'll see we'll see what they do.

Stephen Robles: 22:35

Yep. Alright ChatGPT, it can now do reminders, Jason. So not for the free clicks. Task. Yeah.

Stephen Robles: 22:41

Task. Excuse me. Excuse me. So now if you have a ChatGPT Plus account, you can ask it to remind you of things, but ChatGPT is calling them tasks. And this is for Plus team and pro subscribers.

Stephen Robles: 22:55

I think, Jason, you pay the $200 a month for ChatGPT Pro. Right?

Jason Aten: 22:59

No.

Stephen Robles: 23:00

Yeah. No. No. No.

Jason Aten: 23:00

I don't pay the $200 a month.

Stephen Robles: 23:02

No. No. No. I pay it for plus. I pay the $20, but that's it.

Jason Aten: 23:05

Yeah. It's worth it for that, but it's

Stephen Robles: 23:06

not worth $200. But, yeah, you can tell it now to remind you of things. It's extremely limited. It can only do a maximum of, like, I forget what it is, 10 or 20 tasks or something like that. There's there's, like, a maximum of what it can do.

Stephen Robles: 23:21

It's you know, you do have to actually go into the app and ask it to remind you. You can start a voice conversation if you want, like, you can map that to your action button on the iPhone or create a shortcut with that, but I think it's interesting that Tajipti is trying to become almost like an ecosystem. I feel like this is the first foray in in Tajipti being like maybe if we can do tasks and then maybe calendar that they can be positioned as almost like a productivity suite in addition to just a chatbot, which I think is an interesting move. They also are already have a search engine, they already have a web search. I feel like I don't know.

Stephen Robles: 23:58

I see this ecosystem coming into focus. Does it feel like that's the direction?

Jason Aten: 24:02

I think if you well, I think there's 2 pieces of context here that are helpful. So I I I meant to, like, think more about this to write about it because I said gbt sent me their release, but I haven't had the time. But, yeah, it's 10 active tasks at a time during the beta period. And the goal of this is really to try to figure out, like, how people will use this. I think it's interesting to think of this in the context of what Apple is trying to do with its voice assistant, which is to use your personal context to inform the types of things that are happening.

Jason Aten: 24:35

And so if you're Chad g p t right now, none of the things that Apple is talking about doing in terms of using your personal context to inform, say, Siri, dingus, whatever you wanna call it, the thing that we aren't allowed to talk about. Like

Stephen Robles: 24:51

Dingus. The dingus.

Jason Aten: 24:52

Yeah. Exactly. What's his name? The he who shall not be

Stephen Robles: 24:57

He who shall not be named.

Jason Aten: 24:58

Yeah. Exactly. So, anyway, I literally can see the see his face, and I actually can't think of the name, but it doesn't matter right now. Harry Potter's nemesis.

Stephen Robles: 25:06

Oh, no. No.

Jason Aten: 25:07

It's Harry Potter's nemesis.

Stephen Robles: 25:08

That's right.

Jason Aten: 25:08

That's right. Voldemort.

Stephen Robles: 25:09

Voldemort. Yeah. Yeah.

Jason Aten: 25:11

Why did I say thank you? Like, there's a voice in my head that just told me who it was. Anyway, this is the best podcast of all time. So I think that if you think about it in that context right now, chat gbt has such a lead on what Apple's trying to do. But what they don't have is the ability to take all of that kind of context.

Jason Aten: 25:27

But now if you're feeding all of your tasks into it, it's developing that sort of thing. And so, like, I'm sort of of 2 minds. 1, I think that it would be amazing to have the chat assistant that you use or the AI assistant that you use have all of this context and information about you, but also you're just helping JetTBT train all of this information about you and about other things. And so you just kinda have to decide how you wanna do that. I'll definitely be giving it a try to see, like, how it works, because, yes, I do pay not the $200 a month, but I'm gonna be interested to see, like, what it does because most people like, we're talking about apps that don't work.

Jason Aten: 26:08

If there is a single thing that people depend on most more than I think even their email, if you rely on a task manager or, like, a calendar type thing, it has to work all the time, or you will just jettison that thing into space. Because once it fails you because there are a lot of people who they've just organized their life around that and and depend on it. Like, I do. I depend on looking at my watch and seeing what does it say next on my calendar or my tasks. Like, that's it.

Jason Aten: 26:33

That's how I that's how I operate.

Stephen Robles: 26:35

So I did see I just wanna mention, I was trying to find it real quick, but I think it was a 9 to 5 Mac article that they are thinking it's not that this was discovered or that it's in the beta, but with the Ios 18 dot 3 that they think maybe the contextual and semantic index dingus might be coming in that next big version. 18 dot 3 or maybe 18 dot 4, which would mean it might be coming this

Jason Aten: 27:01

year and Yeah. Like not 2026 like we've heard.

Stephen Robles: 27:04

Right. Which Mark Gurman was saying that might not be coming till late 2025 or 26. So I'm curious if and when that beta comes out with contextual Siri, I will get back on the beta train. I've not been on the beta train because I like my less bugs, but if

Jason Aten: 27:18

that's battery. You like battery life. You don't wanna have to worry about your battery percentage, so you just want all of the battery life.

Stephen Robles: 27:24

I have such a lot I love battery life. Look, I got I got MagSafe batteries over here. I got this battery over here. This one, I actually did this video that I actually scheduled the video to publish right now as we're recording. It recorded right now at 9 AM or published right now at 9 AM.

Stephen Robles: 27:38

This is a retractable USB c cable, Jason. Look at this thing.

Jason Aten: 27:42

You know what that is? Something else that could break.

Stephen Robles: 27:45

Listen. Oh, but also, you see this handle? You see this little handle right here? Also, USB c cable.

Jason Aten: 27:52

Okay. I wanna say something about this real quick. First of all, best Christmas present I got all year came off of Steven's, referral recommendation list. Actually, I don't know if this is the best one, but I also got the car mount. I got the car mount too.

Stephen Robles: 28:03

Oh, yeah. Kinda. That's right.

Jason Aten: 28:05

But I wanna say built in cords to charging battery things. I get it. I understand why they do it because, like, what good is it to have a battery if you don't actually have a cord that you can charge from and then you were like, is it USB C or USB a or whatever? Right. Nope.

Jason Aten: 28:22

I think it's a terrible idea because it is one of the it's just one more thing that can go wrong. And I want my 3 meter cable or whatever. Not 3 meters. 3 foot 1 meter cable, like or whatever. I don't want I don't I don't like cables built into batteries.

Jason Aten: 28:35

It's a bad idea.

Stephen Robles: 28:36

Two quick things. Jason held up the Anker 10 k Ultra Slim G2 MagSafe battery pack. In the video that I just published right now, I say that's still my favorite one. It's still the best one. So good job.

Jason Aten: 28:46

I still think this one is my favorite one, but that's just because it sits on a chart. Like, it sits on a stand. So this one actually is a stand. It's it's an anchor one. I don't know what it's called.

Jason Aten: 28:56

Steven can probably tell you, like, from a memory, but I really like it. And which is true of this one as well. But this one, if if you were like, if my kids need to use this battery and they don't have a MagSafe phone because, like, one of them still has an SE, they can just plug in a USB c cord and plug it in, and it'll charge. So it's kinda nice.

Stephen Robles: 29:14

Well, I'm gonna show you one other thing. They don't like built in cases.

Jason Aten: 29:17

This is not even on our list, but anyway.

Stephen Robles: 29:19

No. This is another MagSafe battery. This is the Romos. You might like this. This one can charge an Apple Watch because it has a little indent right here.

Jason Aten: 29:26

I think did you do a video on this?

Stephen Robles: 29:28

I did. Did I

Jason Aten: 29:29

see this? Okay. I feel like I've seen this.

Stephen Robles: 29:30

Yeah. You can charge your phone and Apple Watch, but it comes with this tiny little cable, but it's not built in. You can take it out. Mhmm. And so but if you want to charge your phone wired because that will always charge faster, less heat, you can still mag save it to the back of your phone, but then plug in the USB c cable just like that.

Stephen Robles: 29:49

Pretty slick. Pretty slick. Throwing that out there. You don't like retractable cables.

Jason Aten: 29:53

You have some double a's sitting here too that I have to put in my keyboard in a little while, but anyway.

Stephen Robles: 29:58

In your keyboard, That's We'll

Jason Aten: 29:59

talk about it in personal tech.

Stephen Robles: 30:00

In personal tech. Okay. That's that's coming personal tech. Alright. One last thing before we talk about Zuckerberg's interview on Rogan trashing Apple saying they don't innovate anymore.

Stephen Robles: 30:09

We don't typically do rumors, but I thought this was interesting. The Samsung Galaxy S 25 apparently has leaked and it might be showing off a super thin design when it comes out. Now Samsung unpacked, the event is January 22nd, so next Wednesday. So we're gonna see this in less than a week. Samsung is gonna announce whatever.

Stephen Robles: 30:30

But I think it's interesting because there's also been many rumors, I don't think we've talked about them yet on this show, about the iPhone 17 having an Air version where they will have an ultra slim version of the iPhone. Whether or not that'll be a pro or non pro or something in between remains to be seen. It's curious that companies, the 2 biggest, I mean Samsung and Apple, might be going slim this year instead of adding bulk, which would, I think, be less battery apropos because we just talked about battery life, but I don't know. I I mean, if you see a slim iPhone this year, but maybe it's not pro. Does that tempt you at all?

Jason Aten: 31:07

No. Yeah. I mean, either. Like, who is slim? Well, who cares?

Jason Aten: 31:10

I I I've heard people talking like, no. I mean, sincerely, like Yeah. We'll talk. I'm gonna say this for personal tech because

Stephen Robles: 31:17

Okay.

Jason Aten: 31:17

I don't understand the like, that's cool. But the the just the the killer feature of the new iPad Pros is not that they're thinner. The iPad Pro is like ridiculous no matter what. It doesn't but it just doesn't matter. Like, that is I mean, what there's a threshold.

Jason Aten: 31:35

If it was the thickness of my MacBook Pro, that'd be bad for a tablet. Right?

Stephen Robles: 31:39

Right.

Jason Aten: 31:40

But the threat the the killer features are tandem OLED or m 4 or they finally put the camera in the right spot. I don't care

Stephen Robles: 31:47

how thick it is. Display. I just

Jason Aten: 31:48

don't care how thin it is.

Stephen Robles: 31:50

Yeah. I mean, I'm a take my phone out of the case for a second. Oh, which also in my videos. I'm not just pumping my video today, but I will say Ryan London, leather case, first one with a camera control button in the leather case.

Jason Aten: 32:01

Okay then.

Stephen Robles: 32:01

If I were to say, if you wanna use camera control, leather case with that. You still

Jason Aten: 32:04

use a logo on the back, though?

Stephen Robles: 32:06

No logo on the back.

Jason Aten: 32:07

No. Okay. That's good. Because I I don't I don't like

Stephen Robles: 32:10

There's a logo on the side on the very bottom. It's very discreet. But That's

Jason Aten: 32:13

the one thing I love about the Nomad cases is they are

Stephen Robles: 32:16

don't do anything.

Jason Aten: 32:17

Branding on the outside at all. And I love

Stephen Robles: 32:18

Are you still using the suiti back only? Yeah. It's nice.

Jason Aten: 32:22

It is nice. I really like the leather texture better of the Nomad one, but this one has held up really well. And I think the reason why and also, like, the Nomad one has micro suction on it as well, and this one doesn't. And I try to figure out how to get away with not having it. And I think it's because it goes around the it snaps around the cameras, whereas the Nomad one just has a cut out for that

Stephen Robles: 32:42

whole area. Yeah.

Jason Aten: 32:43

So I think that that's they they got it right. I don't I don't know if I love this feel. It's it's it's like it's not fine woven feel.

Stephen Robles: 32:50

No. No. But it is

Jason Aten: 32:51

a little bit but I like the leather better. So but I'm gonna keep it.

Stephen Robles: 32:54

I still I I have my suit. I was using it for a while, and then I dropped my phone twice. And, I have a screen protector on it, which I don't typically do do, but since I've been using the back, I have a I'm actually using Anker screen protector now, but I do have a couple scuffs along the corners of my phone now because I dropped it.

Jason Aten: 33:13

I

Stephen Robles: 33:13

don't think you'll be able to see it. I mean, they're in it, like, indistinguishable. Do you have scuffs?

Jason Aten: 33:18

No. But this is the nomad one.

Stephen Robles: 33:20

Oh, yeah. That's a nomad one.

Jason Aten: 33:20

It kept, like, coming apart here.

Stephen Robles: 33:22

Yeah. I

Jason Aten: 33:23

definitely like the feel better. It's it's I like the

Stephen Robles: 33:26

feel better too. Listen. I didn't think we're gonna ever

Jason Aten: 33:28

This is the worst podcast episode.

Stephen Robles: 33:30

No. No. This is why you need to go to youtube.com/atprimarytechshow. I'm about to sneeze. Hold on one second.

Jason Aten: 33:35

Actually what the people love about what what we do, Steven, is we're just real. We just talk. We just That's right. Give our opinions on all of this stuff.

Stephen Robles: 33:41

I don't know what's happening. I don't know what's happening. I'm a drop a mark. Slim.

Jason Aten: 33:44

Slim phones. We don't care about the slimness of the phones. We're moving on.

Stephen Robles: 33:48

Oh, that's what the whole reason I took the case out was because I wanted to talk about the thinness of the phone. Yeah. Okay. So listen. I mean, thinner than this, I mean, it's really not that big.

Stephen Robles: 33:58

Right. I don't under like

Jason Aten: 33:59

I just

Stephen Robles: 34:00

I mean, lighter maybe would be nice, but it got lighter with titanium. With the iPhone 50, I think it's fine.

Jason Aten: 34:05

I agree. I yeah. Thinness is not the thing that they need to worry about. I agree on the pro ones. Make it lighter.

Jason Aten: 34:11

Use aluminum. No one cares. Titanium is great, but, like, just stick with because, like, it the only thing that's noticeable is the difference between the base, the 16 and the 16 pro. I when I take that 16 that's sitting up there, I won't do it right now because it's my camera. Right.

Jason Aten: 34:24

It's like these two things are not even the same species. Like, this is ridiculous.

Stephen Robles: 34:29

Well, and also, I think, it would be amazing if Apple, like, did this as an experiment, but it would never happen. If they released an iPhone 17 Air that was super thin, but obviously got worse battery life because of the form factor, and released the iPhone 17, like, thick, and it was, like, double the thickness, but you got, like, 3 days of battery, I guarantee you 90 something percent of people would buy the thicker phone.

Jason Aten: 34:56

A 100%. Yep. Yeah. I think you're right.

Stephen Robles: 34:57

Thank you. I'm glad I'm glad we could finally agree on something, Jason.

Jason Aten: 35:01

Yep.

Stephen Robles: 35:02

Finally. Now speaking of things we can agree on, I know we also agree on today's sponsor because today's podcast is brought to you by Notion. Notion is literally what we use every week for this show. When Jason and I are looking at it right now, even when we're not sponsoring, we're just staring at Notion the entire episode because that's where we have our run of show, it's where we have the links for all the articles. Notion is it powers this podcast, primary technology.

Stephen Robles: 35:26

But listen, Notion does so much more. It can be your workspace, it can be your notetaker, it can have transcriptions, and Notion has an incredible AI tool built right in to help you manage all of it. AI built right inside of Notion and it works across your entire workspace, and it's been a game changer. Jason has used it to like search our past episodes, you can find things like when did we talk about this thing? Notion AI is great for that.

Stephen Robles: 35:50

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Stephen Robles: 36:36

We actually use it for free too, we don't pay for Notion. I mean, Jason are just using it right now. Do it for free when you go to notion.com/primarytechnology. That's all lowercase letters. Notion.com/primarytechnology.

Stephen Robles: 36:48

The link's in the show notes too. You just click it there to try the powerful, easy to use Notion AI today. When you use our link, it supports the show, and we appreciate that. Notion.com/primarytechnology. But thanks to Notion for sponsoring this episode and powering our podcast for a year now, over a year.

Stephen Robles: 37:07

Alright. Does Apple still innovate? This was a big interview. Mark Zuckerberg went on the Joe Rogan podcast and they talked for 18 hours. No, I think they talked for 3 hours, which which still sounds like an exaggeration, but no, it was literally about 3 hours.

Jason Aten: 37:22

-Yep.

Stephen Robles: 37:23

-And Mark Zuckerberg said a bunch of things. He said things like Steve Jobs invented the iPhone, and now they're just kind of sitting on it 20 years later. Wild statement. Zuckerberg also said, quote, that Apple has thoroughly hamstrung the ability for anyone else to build something that can connect to the iPhone in the same way as, like, AirPods. There would probably be much better competitors to AirPods out there, Zuckerberg said.

Stephen Robles: 37:50

We're gonna address all this in a second. Also, this is on the heels of news coming out. This is the Wall Street Journal saying that Meta is about to cut 5% of its staff, because Mark Zuckerberg says he wants to raise the bar, and these job cuts are gonna be coming February 10th, and Wall Street Journal and others are calling this a Trump friendly transition. Remember last week we talked about Meta changing its policies, removing fact checkers, leaning on community notes, inviting more political content on the platforms, and I'll also throw to Daring Fireball and link to this, John Gruber had lots of fun things to say about this interview and about, Meta saying that, you know, what they've innovated in versus Apple and things like that. So innovation and Apple.

Stephen Robles: 38:35

First of all, let's talk about address Zuckerberg's claims saying that.

Jason Aten: 38:39

1st hold on. First of all, there's something even more important we have to do us. A week before Mark Zuckerberg announced that they're gonna lay off 5% of their staff or whatever. And in the announcement where he was essentially saying, we're no longer gonna pay all these third party content moderators. He's wearing a $900,000 watch.

Jason Aten: 38:58

That's by the way, that's not an exaggeration. It's a $900,000 watch that he was wearing. Just Google Mark Zuckerberg watch, you know, content moderation video or whatever. It's a custom made. The company that makes them only makes, like, 3 or 4 of them a year or whatever.

Jason Aten: 39:13

And so it's just it's like, dude, how out of touch are you that you're wearing a $900,000 watch in an Instagram reel where you're announcing, like, all of this stuff? So it's just it kinda blows my mind. But, I mean, I'd love a $900,000 watch, but I don't have any. So, like, the whatever.

Stephen Robles: 39:27

But Okay. Wait. Wait. Just just so our people know that that this is this is real. This is The Guardian arguable.

Stephen Robles: 39:34

Yeah. Mark Zuckerberg sports a $900,000 watch.

Jason Aten: 39:37

Yeah. Greubel Foresee, like, the it's listen. It's a

Stephen Robles: 39:41

he wore a Greubel Foresee handmade one, which retails for $895,500.

Jason Aten: 39:48

Which, you know, I rounded up just slightly. But yes. Anyway

Stephen Robles: 39:51

Amazing. I did not know that.

Jason Aten: 39:53

Yes. People who pay attention to watches caught this immediately because they're like, oh, look at his new watch. Anyway, because you well, those are extremely hard to get because they only make a couple of them a year. So anyway, I think it's really interesting and I think it points out like there's a lot of stuff going on with Mark Zuckerberg, you know, and I think it started with accepting a fight with Elon musk. Remember when there's supposed to be a cage match between those 2?

Stephen Robles: 40:16

There's supposed to be a cage match. That's right.

Jason Aten: 40:18

Yeah. And I just think that he is I don't know if this is what a midlife crisis looks like for a 100 billionaire. You know what I mean? Like, but clearly, like, he can just do whatever he wants, and there's no one in his life that will tell him no. And, you know, whatever that's worked.

Jason Aten: 40:36

Mark Zuckerberg has been more successful than, I mean, if that almost anyone in the world. Right? There are, like, less than a 100 people in the world in the history of the world that have achieved the kind of success as him.

Stephen Robles: 40:49

Okay. So Mark Zuckerberg is 40 years old, in case anybody was wondering. I was wondering, so maybe you were wondering too. He's 40 years old. What did Mark Zuckerberg

Jason Aten: 40:57

You're taking issue with my midlife crisis stuff?

Stephen Robles: 40:59

No no no. I when you said that, I was just curious. I was curious how old he was. What has Mark Zuckerberg created? Mark Zuckerberg created Facebook from a college dorm room or whatever, and it was based on whatever, a rating system to gauge how attractive

Jason Aten: 41:17

Yeah. Hot or not. It was basically a knock off of Hot or not.

Stephen Robles: 41:20

That's basically what he created, and it became a social network, and that that is what he has built. Now, after this interview, many people pointed out, if you look at Meta, the landscape of what Meta is today, WhatsApp is a massive part of Meta, Instagram, now threads. You could say threads might have been a product they invented, but a lot of those things are things that Meta acquired. Meta acquired Instagram and then added a bunch of features that copied Snapchat and TikTok, namely stories and reels. WhatsApp existed before Meta.

Stephen Robles: 41:53

It was just acquired, and I don't know if anybody's opened WhatsApp recently. I I don't prefer the design, and I don't really I wouldn't say that that is some a beacon of innovation in messaging apps.

Jason Aten: 42:04

Well, okay. I will say this about WhatsApp. It is the best group messaging app that there is. Group messaging app.

Stephen Robles: 42:10

That's fine. But it's also not changed in the last 10 years, like, 5 years maybe. Maybe 5 years is more accurate. Like, has there been any, like, new anything about anything innovative about WhatsApp in 5 years?

Jason Aten: 42:21

I mean, how innovative do your group messages need to be?

Stephen Robles: 42:24

Exact well, exactly. That's my point. I'm not saying it needs to be, I'm saying, like, we're talking about what has meta innovated. The Ray Bans Meta, which, 1, Ray Bans is making the glasses, and it's just Facebook's it's Facebook's software, and that's one of the things I feel like this entire interview was, I feel like it needs to be said. Meta is a basically 100% software company.

Stephen Robles: 42:47

Like, they don't make hardware. The Meta Ray Bans is made by Ray Bans. They tried to make a Facebook phone, if someone remembers, like, 10 years ago, and that failed. I mean,

Jason Aten: 42:57

am I The headsets. They make the headsets. Quest.

Stephen Robles: 42:59

Again, acquired. Right?

Jason Aten: 43:01

No. But I'm just saying they do make them. Like, those

Stephen Robles: 43:03

are the places now.

Jason Aten: 43:03

I just wanna be clear.

Stephen Robles: 43:04

The MediQuest, MediQuest Pro. Okay. Fair enough. Yeah. They they make the headset hardware.

Stephen Robles: 43:08

Again, of all the technology categories, probably the least

Jason Aten: 43:10

But they did not invent it. Right? Yeah. Go down

Stephen Robles: 43:12

the list.

Jason Aten: 43:13

They did not start Instagram. They bought it. They did not invent stories. They copied that from Snap. They did not invent reels.

Jason Aten: 43:19

They copied that from TikTok. Right? Yeah. They bought WhatsApp, which both WhatsApp and Instagram, like, you gotta give him some credit because, like, they're extremely successful. Like, they're multibillion user platforms.

Stephen Robles: 43:31

Right? I feel like the one thing that I can give Mark Zuckerberg credit for unequivocally is that he understood what a good product was even if he didn't make it, And he knew what might be a competitor to what he was trying to make and rather than compete would just buy it. Like, that's WhatsApp

Jason Aten: 43:49

Or or copy it. Like, he could see for example, like, what he saw from Instagram was, oh, there's an idea there, But what we have is we have the social graph. We have the platform. We have the user base. And this that's how that's why stories basically cut off Snap is because it was a great idea.

Jason Aten: 44:08

It's just that Instagram already had the user base that Snap was never gonna get to. Right. Even their most recent announcement, community notes, he made it clear, like, we're just copying this directly from x. He even said it.

Stephen Robles: 44:20

Right. And let's and let's remember Facebook was also not the first quote unquote social network. There was MySpace before that and there was other weird things like livejournal and stuff before that, but Mark Zuckerberg Tumblr. And the Tumblr is still around. So that's, I think, the picture of Meta.

Stephen Robles: 44:39

Now his claim, Steve Jobs admitted the iPhone and now they're just kind of sitting on it 20 years later. I just made a short list here and I you have another list. What is your list? I I forget.

Jason Aten: 44:49

Well, hold on. I wanna just be clear. The reason that the iPhone 17 is not going to get any thinner is because Apple is just sitting on it, and it'll we know that they bend.

Stephen Robles: 44:59

Bend gate was iPhone 6 plus. But yeah. Now

Jason Aten: 45:03

Yeah. My list was of all of the all of the inventions at Facebook. I think that the Ray Bans is probably the most is is probably the example that you could give them credit for. Yes. They partnered with somebody and somebody else is actually manufacturing them, but, like, there really wasn't a category a consumer product category of that type of a thing.

Jason Aten: 45:24

I do think it's important to mention Apple has, I think set the iPhone aside because it's the most successful consumer product in history of whatever, which is why Apple hasn't made another product like that because it is the most like, no one will ever make a product that beats the iPhone. It's just it's not going to happen. It was the quintessential personal computing form factor. But AirPods, Apple Watch, iPad, all bigger businesses. HomePods, bigger business.

Jason Aten: 45:50

The Apple Watch Straps

Stephen Robles: 45:53

are a

Jason Aten: 45:53

bigger business than the Meta Ray Bans.

Stephen Robles: 45:56

The the quote about Steve Jobs specifically, I feel like that's such a easy, like, I'm gonna drop Steve Jobs' name here and it automatically, like, I don't know, is some kind of takedown or whatever. But Steve Jobs passed away in 2011. I still remember where I was. It it it's weird, but So, he passed away in 2011. That was also the year of the iPad release.

Stephen Robles: 46:19

Am I correct? No, no, iPad was 2009. IPad release 2. Original iPad

Jason Aten: 46:23

was 2.

Stephen Robles: 46:24

Original iPad Sorry, I'm trying to fact check myself here. The original iPad was 2010, excuse me, 2010. So right the year before he passed, because he introduced the iPad on stage. That was probably the last big product announcement that Steve Jobs did. After the iPad and after he passed in 2011, what was next?

Stephen Robles: 46:42

You could say the Apple Watch was 2015. Steve Jobs probably knew about it, was aware, probably was not didn't have a huge hand in it because it came out 4 years after he passed. You have the Apple Watch in 2015, AirPods, I believe in 2016, 17, and I would say AirPods, pervasive technology. I want and I wanna talk about Zuckerberg's claim about Apple locking things in, and there would be more innovation if they allowed whatever. But, anyway, I think AirPods, especially the quality of AirPods Pro 2 now, I mean, that is, I think, leaps forward.

Stephen Robles: 47:15

The 2019 Mac Pro, which again, I I said I started the show with Phil Schiller's quote talking about the 20, what was the what was the Mac Pro where he said that? What was the year? It was the 20 2013. 2013.

Jason Aten: 47:32

Trash can, wasn't it?

Stephen Robles: 47:34

The trash can Mac Pro is in 2013, and that's when Phil Schiller and I feel like it was the first time Apple ever directly addressed claims that it wasn't innovating. It was 12 years ago, and it was Phil Schiller when they announced the Mac Pro trash can and said, Can't innovate anymore my ASS. So anyway, you had that, but I think the 2019 Mac Pro, I think that was pretty amazing product. The Pro Display XDR, again, quality wise for the time, still very expensive. But if you want to talk about innovative, the m series chips, I feel like everybody forgets about this as a product that Apple makes.

Stephen Robles: 48:09

Once Apple started making its own silicon, which actually started with the iPhone, that's beyond, like the a 4 chip and all of that way back when. The Apple Silicon revolution, which has been kind of a slow progress over the last, whatever, 10, 15 years, that is incredibly innovative. The fact that you can buy an M3 and M1 MacBook Air and it is as powerful as it is, That's incredible innovation in hardware. So the M series chips, plus Apple then released the Mac Studio a couple years ago, again the Studio display, but Apple Vision Pro also, you could say what you want about its popularity or whatever, but it is amazing technology and, again, post jobs. So I mean, those are just a few things to say, I mean, to say that Apple has just been sitting on the iPhone.

Stephen Robles: 48:54

We've talked about before how many products are kind of iPhone related, like Apple Watch, you need an iPhone to set it up. AirPods, you need an iPhone basically to set it up. Apple Vision Pro, also kind of an extension of your Apple ecosystem, all that. But, I mean, it's kind of disingenuous to say that Apple has not innovated since Steve Jobs.

Jason Aten: 49:17

Well and to be clear, he didn't that's not exactly what he said. He said they had what have they invented since then? Now and here's the thing. There's a little bit of a difference that I think is worth make you know, Steve Jobs invented the iPhone, and now they're just sitting on it. Right?

Jason Aten: 49:32

Okay. I think the important piece there is that you okay. 2 things. It's weird that that Mark Zuckerberg, someone who it's unclear what he's invented, period, would be knocking another company. So then you have to look and be like, why?

Jason Aten: 49:50

Why is why is Apple living rent free in Mark Zuckerberg's head to the extent that it is? Like, it's true. Like, it is like Tim Cook just tweaks him constantly somehow, and the 2 don't ever even talk. Like, it is just it. I've never seen a person that is seemingly more obsessed with a different company than Mark Zuckerberg Zuckerberg is of Apple.

Jason Aten: 50:12

And here's why. Because for almost all of Facebook's meta's existence, it has been at the mercy of Apple. Right? Because it is it Facebook exploded when it was on mobile on the iPhone. Right?

Jason Aten: 50:26

It exploded because it was like, you could have it anywhere. They made it you know, remember because remember for the beginning of the iPhone, there was no Facebook's app came later. Remember they didn't even do a mobile app at first because they're like, no, people just use this on their computers, whatever. And so you have to just kind of ask yourself why. And and he reveals it like he was he is very, very sour that the the experience of connecting the Ray Bans is not the same as the AirPods.

Jason Aten: 50:52

And to be fair, he has a point. If you take photos with the meta Ray Bans, they should just end up in your photos library on your iPhone. And the fact that they don't is completely ridiculous and is completely on Apple and they should do better. Like, they're just like

Stephen Robles: 51:04

But you but you can use a DJI drone. And when I fly the drone and take a picture, those pictures end up in my photo library. Well, I can't

Jason Aten: 51:14

But they go through the app.

Stephen Robles: 51:15

They have to go through the app, but they'll go to the photo library.

Jason Aten: 51:18

Yeah. I don't have any other metaray bands, but the point is, like, you don't get the same kind of connection.

Stephen Robles: 51:23

Yeah. I get it.

Jason Aten: 51:24

As you do with both the audio and with like, you can't use, the voice assistant. I don't believe with the metaray bands. Like, I don't think you can summon the voice assistant doing that the way you can with AirPods. And so I just feel like so there is a point there, but that isn't that has nothing to do with whether they've invented anything.

Stephen Robles: 51:42

Right.

Jason Aten: 51:43

I mean, think about it. Like the AirPods alone would be a fortune, what, 100 company.

Stephen Robles: 51:49

Right?

Jason Aten: 51:50

The iPad and the Mac alone would be fortune 500 companies. Right? All of these things, like, it's kind of it's it's amazing. We don't think of them because all of them are at the mercy of being compared to the scale of the iPhone and yet on their own, those are huge business. And you could argue like the the AirPods wouldn't exist without the iPhone.

Jason Aten: 52:10

Obviously the watch wouldn't really exist without the iPhone. It's just it's it's the iPhone is a singular example. You can't compare it to things because it is so so so unique in its in its sense. So saying, like, well, the watch, there are other fitness watches. I don't know anyone who is wearing a fitness watch before the Apple Watch came out.

Jason Aten: 52:28

Now I'm talking about people who maybe aren't using Apple Watches, but, like, the Galaxy Watch, the Pixel Watch, all those things came really after the Apple Watch became popular. So they they

Stephen Robles: 52:37

invented a lot. They they invented a lot. I also think, talking about why does Apple live rent free in Zuckerberg's head, the app tracking transparency and the change I forget what iOS version it was that introduced 14.5. What was it?

Jason Aten: 52:50

14.5 was when it actually went into effect because this is when you and I met.

Stephen Robles: 52:54

Oh, yeah. There you go. And the Ask app not to track, I mean that significantly affected Meta's business because what is Meta's business? It's advertising. Right.

Stephen Robles: 53:05

Because Meta Meta doesn't sell hardware products, they don't charge for their services, you don't have to pay to use Facebook or threads or Instagram. They are a ads business. I mean, it is the same with Google. They're an ads business. And so why is Mark Zuckerberg whatever?

Stephen Robles: 53:22

Yes, because his entire business is based on where can my ads be shown, and the vast majority of them, especially here in the US, is on the iPhone. And so when the iPhone changes how it, treats apps and tracking and it directly affects Mark Zuckerberg's business, yeah, I think I think he's still bitter about it. I think so. When it comes to, like, does Apple's closed system prevent other companies innovating? You know, you could say I I recently talked about the Beyerdynamic Amaron headphones.

Stephen Robles: 53:53

They're bluetooth wireless headphones. I actually really like them. They sound great. They actually fit better in my ears than AirPods Pro 2, and you could argue that due to Apple's, tight brains on the iOS and macOS ecosystem, it's a worse experience because they don't auto switch. I can't auto switch between my iPhone, my iPad and my Mac as seamlessly as my AirPods, And it maybe won't integrate, as tightly with whatever other things.

Stephen Robles: 54:22

Honestly, companies can still make really innovative products like Beyerdynamic did, and I will use them even if it doesn't have that slight integration. But also, there's other platforms out there, and the biggest Android is bigger worldwide than iPhone. And so companies could try to innovate based on the Android operating system, which is more open. And if that innovation succeeded, then I think there would be more of an argument to say, if Apple were more open, then this innovation could come to the iPhone as it has for Android. But it seems like no one's really doing that.

Stephen Robles: 54:58

And maybe you could say the the meta ray bans, yes, there could be a slightly tighter integration there. Take a photo, it shows up in your photo library, whatnot. But I the iPhone is not the only platform that companies can innovate for. It is not the biggest platform worldwide. It is the majority here in the United States.

Stephen Robles: 55:16

But to hyper focus on it, yeah, I think it's not a not a great argument, I guess I would say.

Jason Aten: 55:24

I agree. And I I just as far as the is meta transitioning to be Trump friendly? I think, like, I think that is probably true, and I think that that makes sense. We talked about this before. I think that, like, they're all of these companies are prepare preparing for an administration that is far more transactional than, and and I'm gonna, like, use a contrast.

Jason Aten: 55:48

I don't want any of our listeners to think I'm passing judgment on either of these things, but they are they are it's transactional versus principle. And I don't mean to say that there will be people in the new administration who have no principles or that the old administration was better because it was principled. What I'm saying is, like, in the past, you had to, like, fit into a set of principles. And now it's like, if you say nice things and and like me, then you're more likely to get so, like, of course, these companies are all saying nice things and trying to, like because they want to be on the right side. And to be clear, you whether you like it or not, that is the responsibility of those CEOs, and it's very easy for someone in in who is not in that situation to be like, but you shouldn't curry favor with bad people if that's how you feel about the new administration.

Jason Aten: 56:32

But if you are the CEO of a publicly traded company worth $3,000,000,000,000 it is your obligation to make sure that you are protecting those 100 of thousands of employees, all of that shareholder value, all of the people like, here's the thing, like, you know, putting, tariffs on goods from China, Tim Cook was able to prevent that from happening to Apple in the last Trump administration. Right? And it's it's absolutely his top priority because the iPhone is like the lifeblood of a multi $1,000,000,000,000 worth of economy. Also, he doesn't want, like, to be laying off thousands of employees because suddenly, you know, the products get more expensive or the costs go up or these different things happening. Or you've got companies like meta who who want who they need the administration to help them negotiate with, like, the EU, for example.

Jason Aten: 57:21

The EU passed data restrictions, which require like, said that says that American companies can't basically export their data back to face like, to the United States, which makes it really hard to run a global platform social network. Right? In the past administration excuse me. The current administration, we watched the EU just pass regulation after regulation. USBC is required.

Jason Aten: 57:42

Now you have to open up to to sideloading. And the and the current administration didn't do a single thing to stick up for American companies. And you know that they want all of these leaders are trying to make sure that the next administration does not follow that same path because they need their help. Like, Facebook needs the administration's help to negotiate with the EU over data privacy protection. And the only way that's gonna happen is say nice things.

Stephen Robles: 58:06

And I think if we remember the Department of Justice, there's still a case against Apple that we'll be seeing more of, I think, later this year, and a lot of it is like the Apple Watch exclusivity on the iPhone and connectivity there. You know, sideloading and stuff in the EU might one day come to the US due to some of these laws. And one of the reasons I think Mark Zuckerberg goes on a podcast on the biggest podcasts in the world and says these kinds of things is Wait.

Jason Aten: 58:32

This is not the hold on. I was you promised me this was going to be the That's right.

Stephen Robles: 58:38

Mark Zuckerberg went on the 2nd biggest podcast in the world, right under primary technology, and says these things because he wants these ideas, I think, in people's heads, in lawmakers' heads who and we've talked about it before. A lot of times when you watch these hearings, maybe the DOJ, it's it's hard to believe that these people intimately understand the technology and what's actually happened behind the scenes. And so saying these things to hopefully maybe the Department of Justice case later this year might have some sway, they can call back to these things that Mark Zuckerberg said or whatever as they may regulate Apple in the future. So and speaking of, you know, tech CEOs again having to work with this new administration, Tim Cook and a bunch of other tech CEOs are going to be at the inauguration on January 20th. And John Gruber had one of the biggest takedown lines in in Dairy Fireball where he said rings don't kiss themselves.

Stephen Robles: 59:31

So that's why he's a good writer. He's he's a good writer. So anyway, we'll see. We'll see. We'll see what Meta invents in the next year or 2.

Stephen Robles: 59:44

I can't wait for it. Lava, let's talk about personal tech. You had a great personal tech segment. But maybe before we get to that, I just wanna mention this Tim Cook interview as a personal tech. Tim Cook's personal tech personal life.

Stephen Robles: 59:54

He actually he had to do this interview. It was with the UK? It's, he joined us.

Jason Aten: 01:00:00

It was long he was in the UK.

Stephen Robles: 01:00:02

He was in the UK. It was the Table Manners podcast with Jesse and Lenny Ware for a new interview. So just talked about kind of his personal life and his ideas about retirement which of course, you know, he's still gonna be doing things. He's not gonna sit around. Says he gets about 5 to 600 emails a day, which and then during product, you know, new big events, it becomes way more.

Stephen Robles: 01:00:20

His first job was flipping burgers at 14 or 15 years old, worked at a place called Tasty Freeze, which I think I think that still exists today. I'm making a dollar 10 an hour. That's that's amazing. Dollar 10 to be one of the I mean, yeah, one of the wealthiest companies in the world. He also says he doesn't really cook that much.

Stephen Robles: 01:00:37

He just eats Cafe Max, which is the restaurant at Apple Park, which you had food from. Right? You've been there?

Jason Aten: 01:00:43

Yes. That's true. Yep. I've been in the I've been in the so there's a Cafe Max in the ring that I that there's 5 multiple ones. But I've been in the big one.

Jason Aten: 01:00:51

And then there's also a sort of Cafe Max ish. I think I think they actually call it that, but it's in the visitor center across the street. So I've been at both of those. It's good. It's it is good food.

Jason Aten: 01:00:59

I don't need fancy, and it's a slightly more fancy than I need. But it's it was really, really good. Like, and yeah.

Stephen Robles: 01:01:05

Hoping to try it this June. We'll see. Cook's favorite meal growing up was fried chicken. He's a big fan of chocolate, especially dark chocolate. His favorite wine is Kistler Chardonnay, personal favorite wine.

Stephen Robles: 01:01:16

His favorite pallet of restaurants is Ethel's Fancy and apparently Apple makes jam from fruit trees planted in Apple Park.

Jason Aten: 01:01:25

I think that's amazing.

Stephen Robles: 01:01:26

That's amazing. That's awesome. And they they asked him about Genmoji. I think this this is good. This is this is like Marques Brownlee asking about Magic Mouse.

Stephen Robles: 01:01:35

It's like along the same lines saying, like, do you use this product? And Tim Cook said he was working on a Genmoji, yesterday when he said this. He said, I love Christmas in London. It's like the ultimate Christmas city. He was trying to create a Big Ben with a tree out front.

Stephen Robles: 01:01:49

No reveal on it if he ever got it to work, but

Jason Aten: 01:01:51

What what what does that mean? That London is like the ultimate Christmas like Yeah. I don't I don't understand what that means.

Stephen Robles: 01:02:00

There's a lot of Christmas markets in Europe, and I feel like

Jason Aten: 01:02:04

you know, Vienna.

Stephen Robles: 01:02:05

They got they got some serious Christmas markets. I don't know.

Jason Aten: 01:02:07

New York City.

Stephen Robles: 01:02:09

Londoners. I we have listeners over in the UK and London. Let us know. Is is London the quintessential Christmas city?

Jason Aten: 01:02:15

Or is this just pure pandering? London is a product in our lineup that we love.

Stephen Robles: 01:02:22

I was curious. So anyway, I'll put it I'll link to that interview in the show.

Jason Aten: 01:02:25

You know, I can't believe, though, that they didn't ask him about the most pressing question, which is if diet or if diet Mountain Dew is your drink, why don't you have it at, like he remember he said that? He's like, I diet Mountain Dew is my favorite soft drink, but I can't have it because, you know, Apple Park is a Coke place, which that's great. I think every place should be a Coke place, to be honest with you. But if you are the CEO of a $3,000,000,000,000 company, I don't think it matters what the contract says. I think if you want a little cooler in your office with a diet amount of dew, you should be able to have it.

Stephen Robles: 01:02:51

I think Tim Cook could have a mini fridge with whatever he wants in his office. Is it for wait. Is there is there a deal with Apple and Coke or something?

Jason Aten: 01:02:58

Well, every single place that serves soft drinks will have a deal with a distributor. Like, you have to get it from somewhere, and so you'll, like, have a distributor that'll bring, you know, all those boxes of syrup that get put whatever like that.

Stephen Robles: 01:03:09

To be one or the other? Like, you're either a Coke place or

Jason Aten: 01:03:11

Well, first all, I don't think that there's I don't know of any places that are not, like, bowling alleys or bars that have both. Right? But, like or, like, speedways or whatever. But, yeah, most places have one or the other. So

Stephen Robles: 01:03:21

Interesting. Oh, okay. I would love to know some under the table deal with Apple and Coca Cola.

Jason Aten: 01:03:26

I'm I'm sure he could just go to the local Safeway and buy cases of Mountain Dew and put them in a fridge. I don't think that violates the contract.

Stephen Robles: 01:03:33

No. No problem. Doesn't. Alright. And you had a great personal tech question.

Stephen Robles: 01:03:36

Why don't you lay it on me?

Jason Aten: 01:03:38

Okay. I wanna know. We talk like, listen people in our situation and by situation, I just mean nerd to, like, gadgets are constantly thinking of, like, upgrading to the next thing to the net, whatever it is. And sometimes I I was thinking about this and I'm like, I don't I don't know if that always makes the most sense. And what spurred it for me is I love the m 4 iPad Pro.

Jason Aten: 01:03:57

Fantastic. It's probably the it's definitely the best iPad they've ever made, of course. Like, it's the most recent one. They fixed the things that were wrong. They have a tandem OLED.

Jason Aten: 01:04:05

They put the camera in the right place. All those things are great, But it does not work with the best accessory they've ever made for the iPad, which is the Smart Folio Keyboard. And I find myself wanting to go back to my M2 iPad Pro because it just is so much more convenient to throw in my bag, be able to pull it out. It's it's way lighter than putting a magic keyboard on it. Like and I like the magic keyboard.

Jason Aten: 01:04:26

It's great. And so I was thinking about what is the oldest piece of tech that I own that I still use on a regular bay and it's not the m two iPad Pro. That's not that old. But the the impetus is, like, is there something that is just I think about, like, Marco Arment and his keyboard or John Siracusa and his mouse. You know what I mean?

Jason Aten: 01:04:47

Like, something that is and if you like, you can just tune into any episode of ATP, and there's a good chance that they'll talk about either of those things just to, like, just to if you don't know what I'm talking about. But is there something that you still use on a regular basis that is just, like, so dependable and reliable that you just continue to use it? And so I have I have a couple that I'll just throw out there. I'll get to the best one in a minute. But, like, we have several Apple TVs that we've never needed to upgrade because it's, like, on a auxiliary TV somewhere.

Jason Aten: 01:05:15

It's like, I don't even know. I think this is probably a 4 k one. Maybe it's not. Maybe it's just an Apple TV HD, but it's it's on a it's on like an old Samsung TV that's an LCD, not even 4 ks. Like, what what am I gonna upgrade that for?

Jason Aten: 01:05:27

It's fine. Like, it just works. Right? It still shows the things I needed to show. I don't need it to do anything else.

Jason Aten: 01:05:32

And we like, I have some, I actually have some hard drives that are like 8 or 12 terabyte hard drives that are just they just keep doing their job. They just keep sitting there. Right? Like, what do I need to, like, until like, as I have they're all backed up. So if one of them dies, I'll deal with that.

Jason Aten: 01:05:45

But I'm not gonna just go buy a 12 terabyte SSD to replace them just because it's exciting. So the tripod I have for my camera in fact, I used it sorry. This is a little bit stream of consciousness, so I apologize. But I used a Nikon DSLR well into the mirrorless age. I was a big fan of the d 700 and then the d 750.

Jason Aten: 01:06:06

And I I use them well into the mirrorless age because they were just so good. And they still I love them so much because they get such better battery life. Like, you could shoot an entire wedding and then the battery would still ask for, like, a couple weeks after that. Whereas on a mirrorless camera, like, you you're replacing battery on a pretty regular basis because it's it's it's there's so much more, like, as there's electronic viewfinder. There's all these different things.

Jason Aten: 01:06:33

So anyway but the oldest product I own that I still use on an every single day basis

Stephen Robles: 01:06:40

Oh, he's even paying on

Jason Aten: 01:06:41

this. So much.

Stephen Robles: 01:06:41

He's getting

Jason Aten: 01:06:42

his it makes him so mad, but it's this Apple keyboard.

Stephen Robles: 01:06:46

That's ridiculous.

Jason Aten: 01:06:47

No. It's not ridiculous. It's not, though. Well, hold on.

Stephen Robles: 01:06:51

I I

Jason Aten: 01:06:52

I'm not even saying that this is the best product I use every day, but this is 14 years old, Steven.

Stephen Robles: 01:06:56

That's pretty old.

Jason Aten: 01:06:58

And I I have no reason to I mean, I have multiple other magic keyboards sitting here, but these are all been sent to me, like, with review units. Like, I would not buy one of these. There's no chance. I do have, what I have one of those Logi Emmick master keys things.

Stephen Robles: 01:07:13

Oh, yeah.

Jason Aten: 01:07:13

It's great. It's great, but I it's not better than this. Like, I wish I had bought 5 of these.

Stephen Robles: 01:07:20

Jason's talking about the magic keyboard with double a batteries.

Jason Aten: 01:07:22

Oh, yes. Sorry. I should have told people because not everyone can see this.

Stephen Robles: 01:07:26

It's not as good as the newer magic keyboard with touch ID.

Jason Aten: 01:07:29

No. It is. It's better.

Stephen Robles: 01:07:31

Touch ID, Jason. You don't have touch ID.

Jason Aten: 01:07:33

Who cares about touch ID that watch?

Stephen Robles: 01:07:35

It's it's faster.

Jason Aten: 01:07:36

I have an Apple Watch on. Guess what happens every time I need to unlock my computer? It just does it. I don't need touch ID. And but here's the thing about this.

Jason Aten: 01:07:43

This keyboard, aside from the fact that I have to replace double a batteries pretty regularly, It is the feel of it. The angle of it is so so much better. It's just everything about this is is better than the ones that they're making of those low low profile ones right now. And I I'm there are definitely drawbacks. Like, you can't pair it by just plugging it into a lightning cable.

Jason Aten: 01:08:04

I get it. Like, all those things are true. But this thing is like this keyboard is, I think, literally, like, 14 years old.

Stephen Robles: 01:08:11

That's pretty good. I'm actually a little jealous cause I was trying to think, do I have anything that old? And my thing is, you know, we we built this house and we moved in. It's gonna be 3 years in May. So

Jason Aten: 01:08:25

and

Stephen Robles: 01:08:25

that was kind of like a big reset, cause we moved out of our house of 10 years, and then into this house and I built this studio with that house and so there's so much that is pretty much new that we got with the with the new house. There actually might be a couple Lutron switches that are like almost 10 years old

Jason Aten: 01:08:44

that

Stephen Robles: 01:08:45

were in the old house first because we didn't have neutral wires in the wall, and those are one of the few switches that actually worked. So there might be some Lutron switches that that are old. But I will say I really there's a feeling you get when you know you've bought something that you can use forever and never think about again. Like there is a comfort in in that. And there's a couple items.

Stephen Robles: 01:09:09

It's not it's tech adjacent. But there's a couple items like that. And I do have some old Apple TVs that I don't update, although when new Apple TVs come out I do the rotation thing where I put the new Apple TV in the main room and then whatever. The one pea one piece of gear, it's probably my oldest. It might be approaching 10 years old, but it's a Denon home theater receiver.

Stephen Robles: 01:09:30

Mhmm. And it was, like, at the time, it was one of the only ones that did Dolby Atmos and did 4 k at 2 zones, and I still use it today. It's 7.1. It does all the things I want it to do. It's a little quirky, and I honestly was looking to upgrade it because there are receivers that have Apple HomeKit built in, and so I was curious about it.

Stephen Robles: 01:09:53

But it's one of those things where it's hard to justify the cost when the receiver we have right now still works great. And so the receiver is 1. 2, this like, microphones. As a content creator, podcaster, there is a thing where, like, when you find the microphone that just works for you, that's one of the technologies that, like, it does not change at the pace of other things. And, like, a lot of times, especially in the audio world, sometimes older is, like, just long standing, I don't know, unbeatable.

Stephen Robles: 01:10:30

Right. So I've used this microphone for 5 or 6 years now. This is the Earthworks Ethos for podcasting. I love it, and it's one of the few things that I don't feel an urge to upgrade. And then the mic I use for videos, this is the Sennheiser MKH 416.

Stephen Robles: 01:10:50

Expensive microphone. It's like $1,000. But it was the first shotgun microphone that, once I bought it and set it up, I have zero desire to even look at other microphones. It sounds great. I want nothing more from it.

Stephen Robles: 01:11:08

It is just ideal. And that is that is a feeling, like, priceless might be an exaggeration, but sometimes it is worth it. And especially if it has to do with your work or something you use all the time to just know like this is the final form of this thing and I don't I have no desire to upgrade. My microphones are 1. My home theater receiver ish.

Stephen Robles: 01:11:30

I was gonna I I do have a TV that's 10 years old. It's a 4 k lg lcd, but I was actually looking at OLEDs recently, so I can't I don't know if I can say it about that.

Jason Aten: 01:11:40

You know what? Okay. I have 2 more. I'm sorry. I know we gotta Wait.

Stephen Robles: 01:11:43

No. Go ahead.

Jason Aten: 01:11:43

I just realized the we have a Samsung plasma TV in our bedroom.

Stephen Robles: 01:11:49

That's serious.

Jason Aten: 01:11:50

We got what be roughly around the same time we got married and we've been married for 17 years. And you know what? It's it's 720 p. It's a 55 inch, 720 p. It looks amazing.

Jason Aten: 01:12:04

Like we literally just use it to watch friends. Like it's not like this thing gets a lot of like use but plasma TVs those things hold up like and guess what I never I never get a notification asking if I want to update the software on it because you know what there's nothing smart about it. You just plug it in. And then the other one is you I still use I keep these in my bag. These are the Bowers and Wilkins c 5.

Jason Aten: 01:12:27

And so when I need wired earbuds, these are from, like, 2013 or 14. I can't remember when they came out. I've never I've they they're new enough that they had the, you know, Apple at one point. Remember when at some point you had to decide whether the headphones you were gonna get had this little thing so you could use a microphone or click on it to do stuff. Right?

Jason Aten: 01:12:44

Like, that was a thing. And these ones were one of the first ones, 3rd party that came out that that had that that were, like, really they're Bowers and Wilkins. They're really good Yeah. Earbuds. And I use these when I'm traveling, like, if I'm on a plane and I need to plug in, you know, the headphone jack or if I'm traveling, like, when when I've done our podcast traveling, I just use those as the in ear monitors

Stephen Robles: 01:13:04

and stuff.

Jason Aten: 01:13:05

And they're just but, like, I'm never gonna buy another pair of wired earbuds ever in my life. Like, why would I do that? These are gonna work forever.

Stephen Robles: 01:13:12

I will say I had a pair this is I had a pair of VIZIO earbuds, which I don't even know if they still make earbuds. But do

Jason Aten: 01:13:20

they whisper ads in your ears when you listen to things?

Stephen Robles: 01:13:23

This was before it was like that. It was its own company. But it it was these earbuds, and I think I still have them. But it had, like, the flat cable instead of round, so it would tangle less. And they had the silicone tip, so they went in the ear.

Stephen Robles: 01:13:36

And they actually sounded surprisingly good. I think they were, like, $30. And I used those for, like, 10 plus years whenever I needed a wired headphone situation.

Jason Aten: 01:13:45

Yeah.

Stephen Robles: 01:13:46

And I would probably still be using them right now except, Beyerdynamic sent me these in ear headphones that I use, but those were like surprisingly good. I don't know why, but the VIZIO headphones from like 15 years ago, those those were really cool. Jason's getting something else from his back at

Jason Aten: 01:13:59

the time. Well, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna be able to find them in time, but I just was gonna ask you because those bar those Bowers and Wilkins replaced for me

Stephen Robles: 01:14:08

the Off camera again.

Jason Aten: 01:14:09

Well, we do remember Apple used to make a premium pair of in ear earbuds?

Stephen Robles: 01:14:13

Yes. With the silicone tips.

Jason Aten: 01:14:14

I love those. I still have them somewhere.

Stephen Robles: 01:14:17

Yes. And people you know, I I okay. So this is the thing, we would love to hear from you. When you leave us a 5 star rating and review on Apple Podcasts, or if you've already done that, you don't have to do it again, maybe the best place, comment on the post on our in our community, social. Primarytech.fm, or you can just tag me and Jason on on threads, blue sky, mastodon, wherever.

Stephen Robles: 01:14:39

Let us know, what is the oldest piece of tech that you still use all the time, every day, that you just don't want to or need to replace? And, I would love to hear about it.

Jason Aten: 01:14:50

And if it's a TV, I don't think that counts because the old TVs last a long time. But, yeah.

Stephen Robles: 01:14:54

TV lasts a long time. But, but I think the audio gear I was gonna also say my camera, this is the Sony a74. I got it 3 years ago, and it is another piece of tech where I have no reason to upgrade until 8 k becomes pervasive and actually feasible, like storage wise and YouTube and all that kind of stuff. I have the bandwidth for it if you know what I mean. But but I have no I have no desire to upgrade that because it's like fine.

Stephen Robles: 01:15:24

Oh and one other piece of gear I have to say that I will never upgrade the humane AI pen.

Jason Aten: 01:15:31

Well I'm I'm glad to hear you'll never upgrade it.

Stephen Robles: 01:15:35

Oh, it's because I stopped having this script and I can't even I can't even use it anymore. Anyway, let us know what is your oldest piece of tech? That that was a fun segment. We're gonna go talk about Starbucks new policy in our bonus episode because Jason wrote about it and yeah, got some thoughts. So if you wanna listen to our bonus episodes, which you have bonus episode every week, I will also I'll reveal a special thing I'm doing next week.

Stephen Robles: 01:15:55

I'll reveal it in a bonus episode because I don't know if I can even talk about it publicly. So I'll do the bonus episode. I'll tell I'll tell you there. And, we're gonna talk about Starbucks. So you can do that.

Stephen Robles: 01:16:04

Listen to our bonus episodes by going to primary tech dot f m and click bonus episodes. You can support the show there or you can support us directly in Apple Podcasts. You don't get chapters if you do that. Not my fault. It's on Apple.

Stephen Robles: 01:16:14

But if you want the chapters and all the good stuff, go to primary tech dot f m. Click bonus episodes. You can support the show there. You get an ad free version and access to all those, bonus episode catalog. Thanks for watching.

Stephen Robles: 01:16:25

Thanks for listening. We'll catch you next week.