Primary Technology

[00:00:00] Stephen Robles: There's not a wrong way to do it, but there is a right way. Welcome to primary technology the show about the tech news that matters this week big news again in the AI space Box media and the atlantic made a deal with open AI. We're going to discuss that wwdc press invites went out Google search docs leaked giving us a glimpse into the algorithm and how that works MKBHD got a behind the scenes on iphone durability tests, and we're going to share our WWDC wish list For ios 18 the new version of mac os and more this episode is brought to you by you those of you who support the show directly.

I'm one of your host steven robles and joining me from a top secret location again on the road jason a10 how's it going over there

[00:00:42] Jason Aten: it's good are you so much a secret is just a very small hotel room but.

[00:00:46] Stephen Robles: Very small town, but but they don't know our listeners don't know where you are right now. They will they're going to discover where you are, but it's it's not in the United States.

You're out of the country.

[00:00:54] Jason Aten: And really, this is a good reason to subscribe to the bonus episodes because maybe maybe I could say more to that audience because we like them better.

[00:01:04] Stephen Robles: No, we don't. We like everyone. Well, people who do give us money to listen to bonus episodes, we do like maybe slightly better, that's what we'll say.

So, we are going to have a very exciting bonus episode. Jason's going to talk about where he is. You can look at the title of that episode in the Apple Podcasts feed, because you can see subscriber audio and you'll see where Jason is, but it's top secret. And, uh, he got a behind the scenes look at a brand, a brand, I feel like we call companies brands now and, and I don't know what, is it a company?

Yeah, it's a company. It's a company. What's the difference between a company and dear to everyone's heart. They're near and dear to everyone's heart. You, you have interacted with this brand many times likely in your life. Well, but what is the difference Jason between a brand and a company? What is the distinction today?

[00:01:48] Jason Aten: I mean the real answer to that is your brand is the way people feel about your company.

[00:01:55] Stephen Robles: Oh Oh, I see. Okay, you went philosophical on you. I mean you were good I thought I thought you're gonna tell me that like Johnson and Johnson's a company nor uh, you know, one of those General Electric General Motors

[00:02:09] Jason Aten: is a company and Chevy is a brand.

Is that what you were? No, I don't

[00:02:13] Stephen Robles: know. No, no. I like your answer better. You went philosophical. We'll take that. All right. Well, we're going to, that's the bonus episode. We're actually going to try and speed run the news. And usually that means we're going to go through it pretty leisurely and talk about it in depth, but we're going to try and speed run the news so we can get to our WWDC wishlist very soon.

But we had some five star review shout outs. Thank you to all of you who are giving those five star ratings and subscribing to our YouTube channel. We're at 175 ratings in Apple Podcasts and 928 subscribers on YouTube. The goal is 200 ratings and a thousand subscribers, so thank you for helping us get there.

Shoutouts Tropical Cycling, that's the username in Apple Podcasts, who gave us a 5 star rating. He said 1 million Robles units, which I don't know how that applies to a podcast review, but I appreciate it. He made a quip about Apple Pencil orientation, I'm going to ignore that one. Bryce Winters, he says, pencil tip towards volume buttons.

I just want to say Jason, we have some supporters. And we're going to, we're going to,

[00:03:09] Jason Aten: I mean, Christopher Columbus said he was going to India, right? But that's, or whatever. So he didn't, I, I, I didn't think I didn't, I have

[00:03:18] Stephen Robles: no idea what to do with that.

[00:03:18] Jason Aten: I didn't know

[00:03:19] Stephen Robles: where you were

[00:03:19] Jason Aten: coming from. Just that because people say something doesn't necessarily mean it's good or right.

Wait a minute.

[00:03:25] Stephen Robles: Just because some, okay. Anyway, we'll keep going. Uh, WH truck. It, we, he gave us his first, his first podcast review ever. He had never left reviews before, and this was his first one. So we're very honored. And then filibuster12 left some kind words. So we appreciate that. Thank you all. And if you haven't yet, you can leave a five star rating and review an Apple podcast.

Tell us, especially if you're on my side with the Apple pencil tip pointing towards the volume buttons on your iPad, definitely leave a five star review. And if you disagree with me, you can still leave a five star review. Just say you're on Jason's team.

[00:03:56] Jason Aten: So what you're saying, Stephen, is you tried it for another week and you gave up again.

[00:04:00] Stephen Robles: Yeah, basically. But we'll talk about that later. We'll talk about it.

[00:04:02] Jason Aten: I

[00:04:02] Stephen Robles: just, just earlier this week, Apple officially sent out press invites to WWDC. Happening June 10th, which we knew the date. We knew the keynote date, but it kind of released the entire schedule of the week and many press invites were sent out.

The Apple Big Keynote is of course Monday, June 10th, 10am Pacific, 1pm Eastern and, spoiler, Jason will be there, on the ground. You received a press invite. You'll be there. I will be your second. How many of my second

[00:04:33] Jason Aten: WWDC that I've gone to? Yeah, I'm in person

[00:04:37] Stephen Robles: and you, you went to last year's, which was the apple vision pro launch, which is pretty amazing saying that you actually got to try it there.

And so who knows? Maybe we'll see new hardware. Maybe you'll get to try a new home pod mini in person. Very, very exciting. That's why I'm

[00:04:52] Jason Aten: going, I'm going to spend three days traveling to California back because the home pod mini is being updated.

[00:04:58] Stephen Robles: That's it. Are you doing one of these things where you fly in like Monday morning and leave Monday afternoon, like

[00:05:02] Jason Aten: from Michigan, you cannot get to California for a 10 o'clock Pacific time, unless you have a private jet and I do not.

Unless we get a lot more subscribers, like when I say a lot, I mean, at least a million,

[00:05:15] Stephen Robles: 65 million subscribers paying for it. Yeah.

[00:05:17] Jason Aten: I'm just, yeah. So no, I'll fly, fly in the night before and then I'm actually going to stay an extra day. So.

[00:05:23] Stephen Robles: Are you gonna try and go to a grouper's talk show live recording,

[00:05:27] Jason Aten: you know, I tried to get tickets to it last year and I think that I just was like, nope, they didn't, I didn't get, I didn't get tickets last year.

[00:05:33] Stephen Robles: I mean, I'm not here trying to compare John Gruber to Taylor Swift, but I think when those tickets go on sale for the live talk show, they go pretty quickly, they go pretty quickly. And it doesn't crash like ticket master. Well, that's true.

[00:05:44] Jason Aten: Cause he just does it on his own website.

[00:05:46] Stephen Robles: Yeah, exactly. And he has to deal with millions of visitors a day anyway.

So anyway, it's exciting. I did not get a press invite. I was a little sad about it. I'll be honest, but that means I'm going to be sitting at home making all the content. That day you're not even, you're not going to be, I'm not going to shut up about iOS 18 and all the new changes that'll be coming and we're going to do a recording.

We don't even talk about this. We can do a live podcast recording. Can we say it's live or we're not sure? Yeah, I think that

[00:06:10] Jason Aten: wasn't that the whole like text exchange that you and I had like, okay, we could do it.

[00:06:16] Stephen Robles: Okay, we're going to do a live podcast recording. Can I say the time? We should have talked more about this.

Yes. You can say the time and if it changes, we'll just tell people. Yeah, that's very true. So 4 p. m. Eastern on June 10th, we'll do another live podcast recording. A lot of you tuned in for our post iPad event podcast recording. So that was a lot of fun. So we're going to do it again. We'll live stream on our YouTube channel and we'll send out links to the community first and then on social media.

But yeah, live podcast recording after WW, WWDC, 4 p. m. Eastern. And, uh, yeah, that'll be a lot of fun. So that's coming up and we're gonna talk about more WWDC later as we discuss our hopes and dreams for iOS 18. And I also wanted to mention this, you know, after the crush iPad ad and kind of the hullabaloo about that, Apple released a new iPad ad.

I don't know if you've seen this. This is actually something they just posted on their YouTube channel. This might become a commercial. But this is a behind the scenes actually this is like a an entire green screen ad where they had a dancer i believe kind of going around this room and on ipad they had creators build these environments and looking can see the behind the scenes there so this entire ad basically was created on ipad all the scenery all the background.

I think, you know, trying to not redo the crush ad, but you know, do something a little more creator centric, maybe. So

[00:07:41] Jason Aten: it's cool. I mean, they actually involved creators, so I guess that was better than just destroying all their hopes and dreams.

[00:07:47] Stephen Robles: Right. And they didn't put creators in a giant press, which is, you know, positive.

I don't think YouTube lets you put that

[00:07:53] Jason Aten: on, I don't, I don't think you can put that on YouTube.

[00:07:57] Stephen Robles: They still have the crush ad on their, on their YouTube channel. So it's still there. Almost 3 million views.

[00:08:01] Jason Aten: I actually give them credit because if they took, I mean, the ad is quote offensive to certain people, but it's not actually like an offensive ad.

And I feel like if you take it down, you just admit defeat on a totally different level. So,

[00:08:14] Stephen Robles: right. And they really, Oh, and I meant to ask, you know, they released that statement. We talked about it. It was to a news outlet. I had never heard about before. And. Nilay Patel from The Verge, he keeps really pressing on websites that allow Apple to provide quotes that are unattributed.

Because there was also that recent deleted photos were showing up back on people's iPhones with 17. 5. And then there was that fix, where Apple actually addressed the fix in the update release notes, saying it fixes that, Oh, your deleted photos might come back thing. And Apple gave some information to nine to five Mac about that update, but was unattributed.

So, you know, there's no quotation. There's no like who is responsible for this up, you know, the information. And so Nilay from the verge, and we're gonna talk about them in a second with the whole open AI deal, but he's really pressing for, especially people in the Apple journalism community to To keep apple from doing that kind of stuff on background or whatever can you explain that difference as a journalist and writer between background attribution and what nila is asking for there

[00:09:19] Jason Aten: yes so the difference first of all what nila is asking for is he wants every statement to have a name attached to it which totally fair and the reason is someone's not accountable for whatever it was that.

The company is saying, and I'm generally speaking, companies would much rather just tell you stuff on background, which means you can report on the information, but you can't quote the information. They're not giving it to you as a quote. That's like, we're telling you this information because we think it will be helpful to your story.

But we don't want to be quoted saying whatever the thing is. And so as opposed to Apple, yeah, you can say someone from Apple is saying it. And you can say that, although there are sometimes when Apple doesn't want you to even say like Apple says this thing, they just want to tell it to you. And then you can kind of like use that information.

And so that, that's fine. The. You mentioned the crush ad apology that was actually attributed to, I think it was Tor Meeren who is the VP of like marketing or something like that. And they gave it to ad age. Which made me super mad. I have nothing against ad age because you asked for it. I tried real hard to get a statement.

[00:10:26] Stephen Robles: Real hard. And initially it was actually behind a paywall. So like, this is that actually I'll put this link in the show notes if you want to see it, but this, this was the. Apology post from Apple and like you're saying it was Tormir and the company's VP of marketing communication. So it is attributed, but when this first was published, it was behind the paywall.

So you couldn't see any of that and I had never heard of this news outlet before. And so then you had like the nine to five and Mac rumors articles quoting this, but it was, it was just weird. Like the choice to give it to a news outlet that Maybe less well known in the Apple community and then also behind a paywall.

It was,

[00:11:06] Jason Aten: yeah. And I'll say that it was put behind a paywall. I don't think that most of the other organizations who reported on it subscribe to that. I think that it's potentially possible that the statement was also provided to other organizations in the context of, Hey, see, we put, you know, there's a statement over there.

So that's all I'm going to say about that.

[00:11:31] Stephen Robles: I see. I see. Okay. Okay. Well, listen, journalism is complicated, Jason, and that brings us to our next topic, because a big deal was announced earlier this week between the Atlantic, which I didn't realize was the nation's oldest, one of the nation's oldest magazines dates back to like 1800s.

Did you know that?

[00:11:51] Jason Aten: I did not. I did not know that. I just knew that it was something that. Older people read, I don't know, I don't, I don't even know if that's true.

[00:12:00] Stephen Robles: Jason, just because old people read it does not mean the publication is old, I'm just, you know, just saying. I'm sorry, we, I'm sorry to, listen, we love you all,

[00:12:09] Jason Aten: listeners and viewers.

We do, no matter who you are. Anyway,

[00:12:11] Stephen Robles: The Atlantic's been published since 1857. That's how long the Atlantic has been around. So that's, that was news to me.

[00:12:18] Jason Aten: That is roughly how long it feels like I've been awake. We'll talk about that later.

[00:12:26] Stephen Robles: Sorry, Jason's very far away right now. He's not, he's not in the U. S. We'll talk about that in the bonus episode. Anyway, this deal is between the Atlantic, Vox Media, and Vox Media owns a bunch of properties, if you're not familiar, like The Verge, namely Eater, The Cut, Vulture, SB Nation, The Massive Sports Publication, So.

All of that, plus the Atlantic, this deal means that OpenAI will be able to use all the content from these publications in training ChatGPT, it's a large language model, and even it seems like current news, like new articles, will be able to be fed into ChatGPT as well. So pretty soon, maybe this is just a ChatGPT 5 thing, or maybe sooner, you know, this might just be a behind the scenes, you'll be, some of the information that you ask ChatGPT for could synthesize.

Or, and we'll be synthesizing information from these news outlets. Now there were not terms of the deal discussed. We don't know how much money exchanged hands, but you better believe money did exchange hands, I'm sure. And, you know, maybe this is Vox media and the Atlantic trying to get ahead of the coming.

What would you say, like profit hit from maybe Google search results and AI overviews and the Google zero again, as the verge talks about where less and less traffic to websites is being sent because of Google's changes that this might be kind of hedging a bet, but this is a very different stance from something like the New York times, which is suing open AI for having trained chad, GBT on its content.

So there's that whole side of it. Plus, part of the deal is that Vox Media is going to be able to use OpenAI's technology to build tools and features into its websites. Like, for instance, Vox will match shoppers with GIFs endorsed by its consumer recommendation site, The Strategist, and it's going to be able to use Open AI's technology to help with those recommendations and make them even more accurate.

So this is kind of a two way street as well, possibly with money. This seems like a big deal, Jason. Am I?

[00:14:32] Jason Aten: I mean, you were with me until you said that it might make them more accurate. What it really means that last part is that ChatGPT will make up products and then they will match you to those products and send you off on a wild goose chase.

And you'll be thinking, this is exactly what I've been looking for forever, and you'll never be able to find it. Bye.

[00:14:47] Stephen Robles: But this is saying like Vox, like, so I imagine if you like click the top 10 gifts for father's day on Vox's website, then maybe there'll be some open AI technology in the background that works as the page is loading to actually maybe show you things that it knows.

I don't know. Yeah, I don't know.

[00:15:04] Jason Aten: You, you mentioned the New York times, and I think that's actually an important reference point because you started by saying that they reached a deal for open AI to use content from these publications. And the thing that's really important to understand is like. Open AI has already done that, right?

They've already just trained like retroactive. No, no. They literally trained their large language models on the internet, right? All of the stuff that's on the internet and all of this stuff is on the internet. Now, like the Atlantic is a subscription. So a lot of its stuff is behind a paywall. I think maybe New York magazine is similar to that, but like the verge, you can just read the verge, right?

It's just there. You can read it. And open a I absolutely has been doing that. And so really, this is just sort of an agreement between open a I and these publications where these publications are essentially agreeing to not sue them, right? Like we've already done the thing. How much money will it take for you to be okay with the thing that we already did?

This would be like, If, well, they actually come to think of it, this is probably exactly what happened, but you know, there was the whole Scarlett Johansson thing and the news was that, that, uh, in her statement, she said that a couple of days before the launch, uh, Sam Altman called her again and they weren't able to connect before the launch, but it's almost as if it's like we created a voice that sounds like you.

We've already done it. How much money will it take for you to be okay with this thing that we already did that we, you know, we want to go ahead and put your name on it. Yeah. And so I think that it's I just think that like open AI is going around. They did this a similar thing, I think, with like News Corp, with the Wall Street Journal, like that kind of thing.

That's because all of these publications are essentially looking at this as a copyright violation and open eyes entire business model depends on Everything they've done so far to train their models, not being a copyright violation. And so some amount of money is going to be the tool that is used to try to figure out how to make it not be a copyright violation.

And yet there's still going to be lawsuits like the New York Times, which is going to like, this is not going to completely avoid the issue for opening. I'm it's still, yeah.

[00:17:02] Stephen Robles: So I think it's just fascinating. I know I just saw the last decoder episode pop up about like Google zero is here. And so, um, Gonna listen to that um i'm also curious and i mentioned his name several times but nila has talked a lot about google zero about chat gbt and open ai taking content and now his parent company because he is the editor in chief of the verge who is under vox media is a part of this whole deal i'm very curious how what he's going to say can you imagine disclaimers.

[00:17:28] Jason Aten: Can you just imagine being the person that had to put a calendar invite on Neelay Patel's calendar saying, we need to tell you something that's happening.

[00:17:36] Stephen Robles: That's stuff that you've been talking about on every podcast for the last year. We just need

[00:17:40] Jason Aten: to let you know a thing that's about to happen. And we just want you to know that it's about to happen.

I would not have wanted to be the person to deliver that news.

[00:17:47] Stephen Robles: So we'll continue to cover that. Fascinating time for all this stuff. Also speaking of Google. A bunch of Google documentation about Google search, their APIs and practices leaked a collection of 2, 500 leaked internal documents. And there were a couple and analysts, uh, namely their SEO experts, Rand Fishkin and Mike King.

And I actually, I went through and I read their findings. And so these, this is data and documents that Google did not intend, uh, you know, for the public to see. And it's interesting. What, what is in there? What is it? And so, oh, this is Rand's article. I'll put this link in the show notes. He talks a lot about like the background of it and all this kind of stuff.

But if you scroll down, he talks about like the top five things we can learn from the data leak. And so I encourage you, if you just kind of want to read the top five, you know, scroll about halfway down and he has some information there. A couple of interesting points for me reading it when it comes to Google search.

And so this, all this information is about how Google. Uh, analyzes user data and behavior to adjust search result rankings and links and all that kind of stuff. And so for instance, Google will filter out click or links or clicks depending on how they rank, depending on length of click. And so for instance, if you do a Google search, let's say for top dog breeds or whatever, and you see a website with a top 10 list, you click the site.

Uh, but you immediately, after a few seconds, hit the back button because you realize that's not what you wanted to see. Google actually takes that into consideration, uh, to rank that website specifically in future search results. So you click a link, hit the back button very quickly, that will de rank that website.

And, uh, How does Google know that, you know, a lot of this information talks about the data Google extracts from Google Chrome users, which is the number one web browser worldwide. And so I think it is interesting slash telling, like if you use Google Chrome, like Google is getting a lot of data from your search and browsing habits.

So I think that's interesting. Also just an overall point I got from it is like that Chrome tracks a lot. And also what it puts under like travel and shopping, uh, will, it seemed like they're trying to steer people to go up to those categories. So if you search for something like, you know, destination, let's say I want to go to Paris or whatever.

It will try to filter things into the travel section and maybe de rank it in the general search to try and get you to go to one of those categories, uh, to again, kind of see your behavior and such. And a couple, two other things, whitelisting was a thing. So he talks about several pieces of code found in these documents, like, and these, uh, several references to flags like, is COVID local authority?

That's like a search term distinction and is election authority. These are like, uh, indicators in these documents that Google would then whitelist certain sources for news in relation to these topics. So when you did a Google search, certain sites would be whitelisted and come up and I probably other sites would not come up.

And also that Google uses a lot of click data to determine how to wait links in that search result. And again, if you use Chrome, it is definitely tracking every one of those clicks and browser features. So, you know, I already knew Google took a lot of stuff. Obviously it has algorithms for search, but it's interesting to see a little bit behind the scenes and from SEO experts about all this ranking stuff.

[00:21:29] Jason Aten: Yeah. And, and you mentioned Rand Fishkin, who he was a co founder of Moz, which was a SEO. Sort of optimization software. And he's now, I think does audience research and that kind of stuff. And so like, he's a pretty reputable. Person in this particular sphere. And I feel like the most interesting thing about this, like Google originally didn't even confirm whether this was actually, they didn't even comment like the verge story.

They tried to get Google to even comment about whether or not this stuff was real. And you could just imagine someone was sitting in a room trying to figure out like what, What is the right answer to that question? Do we just not answer the question or what can we possibly say? It turns out that they did confirm that they are real documents.

It's not entirely clear how much of this information you could use to pull signals. I mean, obviously the analysis that he, that, uh, Rand did is, is attempting to sort of pull some takeaways, but of course that's like, if you had access to this, that's exactly the thing you'd want to be publishing is like, what are the takeaways?

Cause that's sort of the Holy grail of SEO. What'd it be really interesting is one, how does Google. Change way that it does search as a result of this, because it's already changing for a lot of reasons, but also, you know, that there are going to be a lot of companies who specialize in SEO that are going to try to take this stuff to figure out, like, you know, there's gonna be a whole lot of recommendations from people that don't actually know what they're talking about, telling you what you should do for your website to match this stuff.

And the truth is like, yes, but Google changes its algorithm. Um, On a very regular basis. Yeah. Yes.

[00:23:02] Stephen Robles: And I'll also say, I've seen a lot of people posting on social media about the, with AI overviews, when people get AI overview results from a Google search and just how inaccurate or bad they are with just wrong information.

It was even. I forget who it was. Um, the glue pizza, uh, story. Do you

[00:23:20] Jason Aten: see that? Yeah, absolutely. But the best one about that is the, the, uh, was it Katie? I can't think how you say her last name, that business insider who said like everyone was talking about the use glue for your pizza. And she's like, I didn't want to write about it.

I actually made it and she actually did. She made the pizza according to that recipe, but glue in it. And then she ate it like, come on.

[00:23:40] Stephen Robles: I was, I was, I know it's Katie. What's her last name?

[00:23:43] Jason Aten: Oh, I can't say that. I can't say her last name's, uh, Oh, Natopolis, Katie Natopolis.

[00:23:48] Stephen Robles: Netopolis, Katie Netopolis says, Google said to

[00:23:51] Jason Aten: put glue in your pizza.

So I made a pizza with glue in it and ate it.

[00:23:55] Stephen Robles: It's amazing. I was, I'll find the article for the show notes. I was trying to find a real quick to show it here.

[00:24:00] Jason Aten: Yeah, I shared it. And my response was just like, this is commitment to the craft right here.

[00:24:06] Stephen Robles: It is, it is sticking to the bit, uh, for sure. But anyway, yeah, there's been basically just a AI overview.

So. You know, not a great first impression.

[00:24:15] Jason Aten: Well, and Google's response to that is, well, these are all very like fringe cases, and some of them I don't think are fringe cases because the original question was not should you put glue in your pizza, which certainly seems like a fringe question. The original one was like, why is my pizza falling apart or something like that?

I mean, I don't, I don't remember the exact one was, but the, you know, this is no different than, you know, the episode of um, The verge cast that or decoder that Neal, I did with sooner, but I, where he literally was just Googling things and showing him, I mean, brutal, but also like these are, it doesn't really matter how many of them are quote fringe cases.

The problem, the, the point is like people are doing this and it's coming up with these completely wacky answers. And you can argue that the people who are doing it. Maybe didn't have the right intentions when they did it. But the, the, the point is the answers are still killing your credibility. Like that's the only thing Google should care about.

[00:25:08] Stephen Robles: Exactly this. Uh, I found the articles will be in the show notes, put washable school glue in the pizza sauce. Listen, this is, this is courage. You know, apple talks about removing the headphone jack being courage. No putting glue in your pizza sauce is courage. She did say, me. Apparently the cheese did not slide off, uh, as you, like, that was the question that I was trying to answer.

You know, how do you get your cheese not to slide off your pizza? Apparently the cheese does not slide off as, as much, but, uh, no, I'm Katie Natopoulos, that's right, yeah. No thank you. There's a video of her eating it, uh, linked in the article, but anyway. Brave courage

[00:25:46] Jason Aten: courage. I'll just say that was Sona said about their new app that everybody hates courage

[00:25:52] Stephen Robles: They just said they just had an Instagram story saying they updated the app and they brought back the voiceover I guess they fixed the voiceover thing But

[00:26:00] Jason Aten: so what you're saying is they caved in brought back all the stuff they took out I think that's the opposite of courage Steven.

They should have stuck with it I don't know. I don't use a bad app. I don't use Sono. So what am I even talking about? Do you use any sono stuff? I have no sono stuff. I, I, I, I, I thought about like getting, you know, one of the setups that has the Yeah, the arc and the beam and the rays. Yes. And all the other things.

And, but I didn't, I, I'll,

[00:26:25] Stephen Robles: I'll send you one of my videos on it door.

[00:26:26] Jason Aten: All right. I appreciate that.

[00:26:29] Stephen Robles: I wanted to mention MKBHD posted a bunch of videos on X. Interestingly, I'm not sure why he didn't make this a YouTube video for his own channel. I'm always curious how these background things go. But he got to visit an Apple lab and where they do durability tests on iPhones.

And it's pretty wild. The water tests that they do to get that IP. X eight and more is crazy. Like they have one where a chamber is just like raining on the phone. Then they kind of shoot a literal hose. So it's being shot with water. And then there's like a final test where it's submerged completely. And they, you know, do it that way.

They have an entire setup for drop testing. I thought it was funny. I Epson. I guess makes the robot that does the drop tests. So printers and robot arms for phone drop tests. That's cool. And there's also a vibrating test. So they can test all kinds of frequency. They actually have an Apple vision pro strapped to this table.

That's like vibrating violently to a test that. So I guess you have a vision pro can withstand some vibrations. That's great. And then he actually got to interview John Pernis. Which again, like why, why is this not on his YouTube channel? I don't, I don't understand that. But you got to interview John Turner's talking about kind of the tension between repairability and durability and how it's basically a spectrum, which the more reliable and sturdy you make a thing, the less repairable it is, but they're working to continue to make things more repairable as time goes on.

So. Interesting little interviews. I'll put a link to that tweet thread in the show notes.

[00:28:01] Jason Aten: Yeah, I still like the one better where they, was it Joanna Stern that did the video with the robots that take them apart?

[00:28:08] Stephen Robles: Robots take them apart is

[00:28:09] Jason Aten: cool. Yeah, that's pretty sweet. That is

[00:28:10] Stephen Robles: fun. That is fun. We're actually going fast, Jason.

We're actually going faster this news. I

[00:28:14] Jason Aten: know, but I was really distracted because you gave me such a hard time about badges and I just, you had your Twitter up there and you have all those little badges going on. I

[00:28:20] Stephen Robles: can't control the Twitter website badges. I'm

[00:28:22] Jason Aten: super distracted.

[00:28:24] Stephen Robles: I can't, there's no way, I can't turn them off.

I don't have it on my, on my phone. I'm gonna show you my phone right now, Jason. You got me worked up here. I'm gonna show you my badges right now. No badges. Look at that. No badges at all. No preparation. Not even in the app library. If I could reach my

[00:28:40] Jason Aten: phone, I would have paid my, I would have given a thousand dollars right now to reach up there and send you a text message so that it shows up on your

[00:28:46] Stephen Robles: phone.

That would have been pretty good. That would have been amazing. We'll do it in post. No, just kidding. I'm No. So, uh, Mark Gurman over here, you know, without any hardware things to kind of talk about, he's, he's over here saying Apple TV plus, uh, the app is going to become an Android phones. That's the rumor.

Yeah, but that makes sense. Right. And there's a music app. I mean. So here's my thing. A lot of people were like, isn't Apple TV plus already on Android phones, which it's not, but it's on all the Android TVs. There's an app on every smart TV for Apple TV plus, including like the fire stick. It's not Android, but, uh, and Google Chromecast, like you can, I have a Google Chromecast.

I just used it while I was traveling recently. Apple TV apps there too. So this would just be bringing the app to Android phones, which I think it makes sense. Like you're saying, if they get. News news plus, which I feel like is gaining some momentum. I've seen a lot of positive feedback on news plus as a resource, especially with the whole Google and AI overviews thing, but news plus apple TV plus music is already on Android.

Apple could make the play to say Apple one services bundle just as worth it on an Android phone as it is on an iPhone. And if you're in a family, an iCloud family where you can share these services, and it's a mix of both iPhone and Android devices that gets, you know, fitness plus news plus Apple TV plus.

I mean, that's, that's pretty cool. You couldn't really use iCloud with your Android device. Although maybe, maybe there might be some backup app that they launch on Android. Say backup your Android device to iCloud. That'd be wild.

[00:30:21] Jason Aten: Or just give you an iCloud app. Like you can get the Dropbox app.

[00:30:25] Stephen Robles: Jason, a genius.

Wait, you should be working over there. Just get over to Cupertino. Just drop these ideas. Yes. An iCloud drive app. All I'm asking for. This is what I'm asking for. I said, I said this on social media podcasts. You already have music over there. Bring the Apple podcast app to Android. People were asking why one Google podcast is now defunct.

So there's not. A good default podcast app on Android. Google is pushing everyone towards YouTube music as a podcast listening app, which there's a lot of pushback on that. It's not really podcasts. It's YouTube videos formatted in a way that you can listen and watch them. But anyway.

[00:31:05] Jason Aten: It's YouTube videos of podcasts on a music app.

Okay, I totally follow. I know exactly what you're talking about. Seamless. What could go wrong? I don't understand the confusion.

[00:31:15] Stephen Robles: I don't like, listen, we're on YouTube music. I mean, listen, if you watch or listen to us with the YouTube music app. Reach out to us. You can email us podcast at primary tech that FM join our community social dot primary tech that FM.

We should actually, I'll do a community. Someone remind me, please. I'm gonna do a poll to see where people watch and listen to us. I'm curious how many people use the YouTube music app. I can look at our analytics and it's basically like negligible if anybody. So I, so I would love to hear from, from you specifically, but there's no default podcast app pocket.

Pocket casts is probably the best app for Android. Because it's also one of the best apps on iPhone too. So you could use pocket cast, but the apple podcast app there, it has transcriptions, which I think other apps like overcast support it, but not in the way that apple has implemented it. And to auto transcribe other apps might pull the transcript from the RSS feed if a podcast provides it.

But apple podcast is transcribing every episode of every podcast, whether the creator or the podcast. Supplies a transcript or not. So I think Apple podcasts on Android would be a boon for transcriptions accessibility wise, but also sharing and search, which I've actually had people like send me screenshots of the transcription saying, Hey, you were mentioned in this podcast, or whatever.

I saw that. I saw one. Yeah. Which it was really cool. Like that's a great new way to share a part of a podcast rather than a soundbite with like a nondescript timeline or audio waveform. Serious a screenshot of the transcript. So that's just an Apple podcast So I think that's a great but also subscriptions like if you want to listen to the bonus episode today about Jason's top secret location I would love for someone on Android to be able to listen to that and subscribe over there Which would be not a lot of services revenue for Apple, but it would be some because Apple does take a 30% A podcast subscriptions as well, which we'll talk about how you could support the show in a moment.

But

[00:33:02] Jason Aten: anyway,

[00:33:03] Stephen Robles: Steven, do you think

[00:33:05] Jason Aten: that this is how apple is training their large language model with all of our podcasts? Oh, they're transcribing them all and they're just feeding it all into Apple gbt

[00:33:17] Stephen Robles: listen, I wish I had a tinfoil hat around here. Hold on a second. Let me get a hat Let's pretend I just unplugged my headphones.

Oh no. What

[00:33:24] Jason Aten: are you gonna put on your head? This is what I wanna know. Well, I don't have, you don't have a tinfoil hat, so what do you have that you Okay. It's just a hat. Hat. That's fine. This is just a hat. It's just a normal hat. If you're just listening to this. All Stephen did is put on a hat. It's fine.

[00:33:36] Stephen Robles: This is, this is our podcast host transistor family. I

[00:33:38] Jason Aten: was hoping it was a lander or something like that. You know, A pasta. A pasta strainer. .

[00:33:43] Stephen Robles: Like a

[00:33:43] Jason Aten: pasta. You just have a pot here in the studio. I don't know. You're, it's right off your living room. Right? It can't be that far from,

[00:33:48] Stephen Robles: that is true. From That is true.

That is true. You should come visit sometime next time. I'm

[00:33:51] Jason Aten: coming.

[00:33:52] Stephen Robles: You should do the Thanksgiving. We can do a live, a live pod.

[00:33:55] Jason Aten: Let's do it.

[00:33:56] Stephen Robles: Since we can't do it at WWD,

[00:33:57] Jason Aten: but we wouldn't be able to do it on Thursday since that would be Thanksgiving, but that's fine. We'll figure something out.

[00:34:01] Stephen Robles: No, Jason commit.

We're going to record a live podcast.

[00:34:05] Jason Aten: If you can

[00:34:06] Stephen Robles: convince my family and yours, let's try it, bud.

[00:34:10] Jason Aten: All

[00:34:11] Stephen Robles: right. Here's the, here's my, here's my tinfoil hat, which is my transition out of him. Apple actually before the transcription feature. Publicly launched. They were actually transcribing stuff beforehand. I don't know if I should even say they're actually transcribed before him because it was powering the search in Apple podcasts previously.

I don't know a lot of people know that I don't even know if I'm supposed to be saying that

[00:34:34] Jason Aten: that was on background. So

[00:34:37] Stephen Robles: yeah, we'll leave it on background. That was like that was like just in passing. Anyway, so that's that is interesting, possibly, which we're gonna talk about WWDC in a second with with all the AI stuff, but I think it makes sense.

Apple just bring all their services to all the platforms. What do they have? Windows apps. They still have, I mean, they used to have iTunes.

[00:34:55] Jason Aten: There used to be iTunes and you can get Apple music for sure. I know for sure. You can get that. So

[00:34:59] Stephen Robles: right. You can get up on me. So, I mean, just, just bring it everywhere.

You know, just be able to be, be a services company. Like, like they are, well, you know, they're trying to,

[00:35:06] Jason Aten: so here's a real question though,

[00:35:07] Stephen Robles: you're

[00:35:08] Jason Aten: going

[00:35:09] Stephen Robles: to

[00:35:09] Jason Aten: think I'm going to be, you're going to think I'm being a troll. Because that is my personality. Apparently that is the character I play on this podcast is the troll.

[00:35:18] Stephen Robles: You instigate trolls on social media. I just, I just,

[00:35:21] Jason Aten: anyway, but why do you care? Like you don't use an Android phone. So like, are you thinking of switching if all of a sudden these things are available?

[00:35:29] Stephen Robles: No, but I do like, I have a pixel six a that I use sometimes and. Hey, I think when it comes to podcast specifically, I think having a, which wouldn't be a default app, but having a good app to experience podcast makes a big difference.

And a lot of times, you know, while pocket cast is a great app, I think in a lot of ways still has the best features of most podcast apps. It's not as discoverable, like just an average android user is not probably going to search for that if they don't know it. Yeah. But if a name that they are familiar with and maybe already have Apple music on their Android device, say, Oh, I can listen to podcasts here too.

You know, I think it would just help the podcast experience on the platform. So

[00:36:12] Jason Aten: yeah, also the app's called podcast. So if you're looking for a podcast player, it's just this podcast. So yeah, I should never put this hat on. I'm

[00:36:21] Stephen Robles: trying to get this hat because now you can never take it off. Yeah. I can't take it off.

My hair was a mess. So Justin, I hope you appreciate this. Okay. Let's uh, we're going to talk about a couple of apps that launched this week. Then we're gonna get into our dub dub wishlist, but I want to take a moment and thank everyone who supports the show directly, they're going to get the bonus episode Which I'll tell you right now in this section because this is going to be cut out for the members and a little teaser, but Jason Is literally inside a Lego right now.

That's where you're at, right?

[00:36:49] Jason Aten: I mean, I'm, I'm not, yes, that's exactly where I'm, I'm in a Lego brick.

[00:36:53] Stephen Robles: Thank you for playing along. Jason is where you're, where are you again? I'm in Denmark.

[00:36:58] Jason Aten: I'm in Denmark.

[00:36:58] Stephen Robles: Jason is literally in Denmark right now at Lego. Is it headquarters?

[00:37:04] Jason Aten: I was at the headquarters. I'm not at the moment right now.

I'm in a very small hotel room, but yeah, I

[00:37:10] Stephen Robles: mean, so Jason is a Lego headquarters and he's going to share his experience in the bonus episodes. So if you would like to listen to that, you can support the show directly in Apple podcasts, 5 a month, 50 a year. You get all the past bonus episodes. So you can just binge those are some great ones.

Or you can support the show at primary tech dot FM, click bonus episodes, and you can listen to it that way you get ad free version of the show, meaning this section you have a uninterrupted experience, and you get all those bonus episodes and as we have sponsors in the future, you will get the ad free version of those as well.

So you can support the show. But if not, we appreciate you subscribing to the YouTube channel, youtube. com slash at primary tech show, give us a five star rating and review in Apple podcasts. And we just appreciate that you listen and watch the show every week. So thank you for that. Thank you, Jason, for giving your your Lego location for living in a Lego brick.

What color is the brick that you're in right now?

[00:37:57] Jason Aten: I'm in Denmark. It's a, it's not a huge country, but I don't think I gave away too much of my location at this point. So I

[00:38:03] Stephen Robles: don't, I don't think if you're a listeners, if you're a listener in Denmark and you're at Lego headquarters, as you're listening to this podcast, let us know.

[00:38:12] Jason Aten: Better better if you are part of our community We'd love for you to join our community and without googling it or searching it up, by the way I listened to the most recent bonus episode of your other podcast that we're not going to talk about right now But search it up without searching it up I mean, I would be interested to know if anyone who listens to this actually knows where in Denmark like I was located

[00:38:36] Stephen Robles: I have no

[00:38:37] Jason Aten: idea.

Yeah. I have no

[00:38:38] Stephen Robles: idea.

[00:38:39] Jason Aten: Subscribe. Five dollars a month and I'll tell you.

[00:38:43] Stephen Robles: There you go. The definition of gatekeeping.

[00:38:46] Jason Aten: I know how this works. I, I, my job is publishing things on the internet. I understand how this works. No, that's good. Yeah. You gotta tease, give a little bit of, you gotta whet the appetite, you know, whet the 5 bill and then they will give it to you.

That's not how it works.

[00:38:57] Stephen Robles: A crisp 5 bill. You know, the one that your grandparents used to like put you in the handshake. You know what I mean? Your grandparents

[00:39:04] Jason Aten: only give you 5? When they did the handshake. That's sad.

[00:39:08] Stephen Robles: I think my grandma actually gave me 10. She used to give me 10. Listen, when I was in

[00:39:11] Jason Aten: college, I would come home from college.

And every time, every time my grandparents lived next door. And every time I leave, I was told I had to go over to my grandparents house to, to like, say goodbye. And yup. You. Give me a handshake and there'd be a hundred dollar bill. A hundred dollar bill. Yeah. I mean, I came home every weekend, Steven. Come on.

Like that's how you paid your rent. This is how I went through college. Yep.

[00:39:34] Stephen Robles: A hundred dollar bill. No, no, I got, I got 10 bills. And also she would put it in like little old school film canisters, little like plastic cylinders. Yeah. That's the thing

[00:39:44] Jason Aten: that I, yeah, I agree. Yeah.

[00:39:46] Stephen Robles: Yeah. It used to be where you kept stuff.

Or at least a certain generation where you kept 10 bills anyway, apparently, but just one, there might've been multiple in there, but she just gave me one.

[00:39:56] Jason Aten: Seems real inefficient, but yeah. Okay.

[00:39:59] Stephen Robles: Anyway, thanks for everyone who supports the show and links in the description. Join the community either way.

That's totally free to join. We'd love to have you there. All right. A couple of apps that launched this week and then we'll get to dub dub, but keynote the new app for your iPhone. It is a 10 here at launch. It's going to go up to 20 very soon. But if you do video, anything. On your iPhone, you capture video.

I highly recommend it. They didn't sponsor the video I did about it or this podcast, but it's from the makers of halide, the company is called looks camera, but it's Sebastian DeWitt, Ben Sandovsky, and it's a great app. And so if you do any kind of filming and you want to use like log and maybe you've heard of Lutz, but you're not sure what they do, but we'd like to maybe try them, you know, This is a great app that it's very simple to get into and start, uh, filming with it.

But also is a really great way and introduction to LUTs and applying them to your video. And so I highly recommend you try it out. It's great app.

[00:40:51] Jason Aten: Yeah. I think that's really like the killer feature because there are other apps that are similar in the sense that they're meant to be a professional, like the Blackmagic and Apple has talked about the Final Cut Pro, Final Cut Pro iPhone app.

Um, but this one, it actually, and then you can record and log in those, but then you have to import that footage into something and add lots at that time. But this is allowing you to sort of do that. And I think that's kind of cool. I was really confused though, because I did see the link to this and I thought like, is there's no way Steven is like, Put a link in here to a what is isn't keno that the thing that you play in like the sports bars where you fill out all the numbers and you watch the screen and all the numbers it's like a lot of game and i was like there's no way he did they get into bedding because we had just yeah the keno is really that's what it is i think it's spelled slightly differently but i was super i tapped on this link like what is this going to be what is steven even talking about i think it's k e n o

[00:41:40] Stephen Robles: i think uh no the the keno is the name of the uh the cloners.

In star wars the clone wars isn't that uh, no, I'm sorry. That's Camino's. Excuse me. Wait.

[00:41:51] Jason Aten: No, that's

[00:41:51] Stephen Robles: a

[00:41:52] Jason Aten: car from like the

[00:41:53] Stephen Robles: 1980s. See, I wish I could keep going. I didn't have something else off my head. Chino, Camino, Medichlorians. I think

[00:42:01] Jason Aten: it's actually the El Camino. But anyway, okay, sorry. Go on.

[00:42:03] Stephen Robles: That's true. El Camino.

Okay, so there's that. And one other app I just want to mention. And I was just excited about this because. I actually got early access to the what if Apple vision pro app, which gave me a reason to charge my Apple vision pro,

[00:42:16] Jason Aten: put it on my face. Didn't say, put it on. You said, charge it, start at the beginning.

[00:42:22] Stephen Robles: This is a new app from Marvel and industrial light and magic ILM. And it's the what if stories have you ever seen like the what if, uh, tv series like on disney plus this is a new app, you know, they call it an immersive experience and i saw the verge actually review the app as well they had more of a negative take.

But they were kind of expecting a game like they wanted kind of a marvel game and it is not that it is not really a game per se. It is more like you're kind of just watching the story and then there are moments where you participate and i actually appreciated that because i haven't gamed in a while and i like i didn't want the stress of like.

Thinking about my health bars whether or not i was gonna get a game over and so i appreciated just kind of like you get to experience it and then you get to do cool things in apple vision pro like holding up your arm and a shield appears you know like dr strange style. And then you can also like shoot, uh, power, like lasers out of your hand.

Cause using the infinity stone. So it's a cool experience. And I think it's pretty unique. I know there's other immersive experience for apple vision pro. I think a new like vacation or something app just launched where you can, I don't know, do like a cartoony immersive experience. Work or vacation. I don't know.

I forgot what those apps were, but it sounds compelling. This is very compelling. That's why I'd say this one's actually free. You can get it today. It actually is launching May 30th. So you can download it today for free on apple vision pro. I think it's worth a shot. It's like. Two hours of content. It'll take you about two hours to get through the whole experience.

And then you can like revisit chapters, but I think there's the kind of content Apple needs to make, to make Apple vision pro more compelling and actually like make immersive experiences a thing. So I recommend, did you wait, did you bring yours to Denmark? No. I just had a long flight and you didn't bring your apple vision pro.

[00:44:10] Jason Aten: Do you know what you do when you fly from the United States? You'd know what you're supposed to do when you fly from the United States anywhere across the ocean. You sleep, I'm not going to be sitting there with a vision pro watching movies the whole time. That is the most expensive airline eye mask that you could possibly get.

Like I just needed to sleep. Yeah. But you didn't sleep the whole time. Did you? I tried to, because I landed at 11 o'clock and had a full day worth of You know, bricks to hide in or whatever he said.

[00:44:37] Stephen Robles: The plane is like where everyone says, this is like the thing to do anyway.

[00:44:40] Jason Aten: Yeah. Who says that? Not people that have actually worn them on planes.

That's just what people,

[00:44:44] Stephen Robles: people do. Vlogs on the plate. Look, I actually have mine right here because I was testing the, I don't usually have this here at the desk, but

[00:44:50] Jason Aten: maybe if I had a YouTube channel, I would have done it, but I don't have a YouTube channel, so I didn't. I didn't do that.

[00:44:57] Stephen Robles: So you still have yet to wear it on a plane.

Is that true? Is that accurate?

[00:45:00] Jason Aten: Uh, that is true. Wow. Also, why, why would I wear it on a plane? You want me to wear it to ww DC? I'll wear it on the plane. Please. Wear it to wwdc. Yes. So at least then when someone asks me why I'm a fool, I can be like, because I'm, I'm going to ww DC and then they'll be like, I don't know what that means.

I just wanna know why you're an idiot wearing this thing on the plane. No,

[00:45:20] Stephen Robles: here's what you need to do. Some someone asks you why you look like a fool wearing this on the plane okay you just with it on your face you just turn and you say ma'am this is my job and then that's all you say

[00:45:33] Jason Aten: i'm doing it for the clicks

[00:45:35] Stephen Robles: that's that's funny no you could then you could post a selfie on the top of one of your articles talk about yeah i wore a vision pro on a plane here's the emotional response you know what i should have done is

[00:45:45] Jason Aten: i wore a vision pro on a plane for 30 days.

Never landed. That is the only question. I was on Air Force

[00:45:53] Stephen Robles: One. It just refilled in the air for 30 days. Yeah. Wow. No problem. No problem. All right. WWDC is coming up. Dub Dub 24. I went back and I looked at last year's Dub Dub because I was curious like the, the order of operations, as you say, uh, PEMDAS. And if you look at the, uh, the chapters here in the YouTube video, I'll put a link to this in the show notes.

But here's what the order that they went in last year. Hmm. First was the Mac. Which they announced the M two Ultra in the Mac Pro and Mac Studio plus the 15 inch MacBook Air, I believe. Right?

[00:46:27] Jason Aten: Yes. Didn't that come and that was three minutes? Is that what I'm seeing? That took three minutes. It

[00:46:31] Stephen Robles: is . It was, no, wait a minute.

It was, oh, let's see. From three minutes. Oh no, three minutes to

[00:46:37] Jason Aten: 14. I see. That's not like how long this is. That's the time soon when it starts. It was when it started. I got it. Okay. It

[00:46:42] Stephen Robles: was 13 minutes. 13 minutes spent on the MacBook Care and the M two Ultra possible. We get an updated hardware this year.

Uh, some of the rumors were saying that the max studio Mac pro might skip the M three generation and go right to the M four, but not till next year. So we'll see, we'll, we'll know in a couple of weeks,

[00:47:01] Jason Aten: if they were going to introduce max, what do you think? You think that that would be what it would be the max studio before they would put the M four in the MacBook airs, which I know they just got M threes.

But

[00:47:13] Stephen Robles: I, I think, I don't think we're ready for him for ultra. And I think it would be weird to have an M3 Ultra. So here's my prediction. I don't know. You can make your prediction. They're going to release an updated Mac mini and some other low level Mac. Maybe it'll be an M3. Maybe it'll be an M four Mac mini and then maybe they'll just say, oh yeah, and we're putting the M four in the MacBook air too.

I feel like that could be, that could be just as plausible. Here's the

[00:47:44] Jason Aten: question though. Do you think that Apple would say, we're not going to release the M four MacBook air yet because We'll make a lot of people who just bought him three MacBook airs like I still have a review unit of an M three MacBook Air.

That's how recent. Well, that's not true because I still have a 15 inch MacBook Air with an M two in it from last year that I still need to send back. So it has no, whether I still have it is not a determining factor of whether or not this was a recent product launch. But I just am curious with it if it's like, no, we should, because that's the next logical one.

They should put the M four in the MacBook Air and And then they, but I don't know that I think they have to wait till October to do that because they just put, put them out.

[00:48:24] Stephen Robles: They just put it out. I don't know. It's, I still feel the Apple Silicon story is a little confusing right now because of how like the Apple vision pro, one of their flagship new devices has the M two.

The laptops have the newest fastest chips, the M three max, well, newest and fastest on the pro level. But then the M four, the quote unquote newest chip is in the iPad. So I have no idea what's happening. I have no idea what's happening. Yeah, okay, I was just

[00:48:47] Jason Aten: curious.

[00:48:48] Stephen Robles: Yeah, I don't know. Anyway, so that was the Mac, and then it went iOS, iPadOS for 30 seconds.

No, I'm just kidding. They spent a whole 10 minutes on it. Just for reference, they spent, what is it, uh, 20 minutes? Uh, about 20 minutes on iOS, and then about 9 minutes on iPadOS. Mac iOS audio and home where they announced things like the conversational awareness, like for AirPods and stuff, there wasn't really a lot of home.

I think the whole, the home thing is. I think that's a little gracious to say home. Uh, they did talk about like airplay and hotels in the audio and home section. They talked about things like, uh, sharing playlists. Oh, and like FaceTime and continuity camera for Apple TV. So that was audio and home. WatchOS after that.

And then Apple Vision Pro, which was a full like 40 something minutes at the end of the keynote. Last year it was over 2 hours, Jason. Two hours long.

[00:49:49] Jason Aten: I know I was sitting there. I remember exactly how long it was because it was.

[00:49:53] Stephen Robles: You don't have to brag about it every time, okay? You'll be sitting there again while I'll be sitting at home.

That's true. Making all the content. But anyway, two hours. I have a feeling it's gonna be two hours again. What's your over under? You think it's gonna be two hours? You think it's gonna be less? I

[00:50:06] Jason Aten: think it's gonna be less. There's no Vision Pro 2 now. I mean, that would be the ultimate, like, move if they're like, oh, we have Vision Pro version 2 and no one suspected it, but that's not going to happen.

[00:50:17] Stephen Robles: But there's a, I think there's going to be a big Siri AI segment. Which could very well take up 20 minutes and then they talk about it integrating into each platform. So I'm going to say still two hours to our

[00:50:32] Jason Aten: do you think I want a prediction on this? Do you think that, you know, last year we were really fortunate to have Bob Iger on stage.

Do you think

[00:50:44] Stephen Robles: so mad about it?

[00:50:47] Jason Aten: Do you, do you think, and if you don't understand why I care about that, you need to just go back and listen to all of our previous episodes, but

[00:50:55] Stephen Robles: I

[00:50:55] Jason Aten: don't know which one it was in, but do you think that Sam Altman will be on stage? Whatever that means.

[00:51:01] Stephen Robles: Heck no. Apple is not having Samuel, which there've been a bunch of people posting photos of Sam Altman on stage in 2008 at an Apple event.

It didn't work at Apple. But he was like founder of a startup at the time, and I guess he did one of the demos at the 2008 iPhone event or something. So, and he was wearing a double polo, which

[00:51:23] Jason Aten: If that's the thing that you're remembered for, that and being sued by Scarlett Johansson doesn't feel like Again,

[00:51:31] Stephen Robles: I don't think he's making an appeal.

[00:51:32] Jason Aten: But here, but I mean, even with the rumors that they're gonna, that they're doing a deal with OpenAI

[00:51:37] Stephen Robles: It'll be their CTO. What's her name? I don't know.

[00:51:40] Jason Aten: Uh, Mira, uh, Mira,

[00:51:42] Stephen Robles: Mirati,

[00:51:43] Jason Aten: Mirati, thank you. I almost said like I was like Suvari. No, that's the girl from American Beauty or whatever the movie

[00:51:51] Stephen Robles: If there's anyone from open AI is going to be Mira Mirati she might be in a Video talking about it, but that'll be it.

[00:52:01] Jason Aten: Okay, it'll be I don't know. I don't know but I mean, I guess it would make sense that if she was there she could You know once again tell us that they don't know whether or not they're using youtube videos to

[00:52:13] Stephen Robles: Well,

[00:52:14] Jason Aten: I'm a little skeptical about this. Yeah, I just think it's like, I mean, I've It'll be just interesting because the reports are that they're that they've that they have a partnership with open AI and my sense is like they don't want to talk about open AI at all right at the moment right now I don't think they want to but I feel like this keynote is probably been locked for a while so

[00:52:33] Stephen Robles: right and also I think all of the news around open AI.

Will fade into the background if apple does announce significant LLM style features at WWDC like that's going to be the story and you know, the background stuff, like Sam Altman, it'll be, it'll be, it'll be quiet. I think. All right. So here's a wishlist. Let's go down. We'll go in the order that, uh, they did also added a section here that I think apple should add.

And so we'll talk about that. But, uh, at the top, I will just say, we're talking about hardware. I think overall there's going to be an AI or generative LLM thread throughout the entire, uh, keynote. And this is something Apple has been doing where a lot of features come to all the platforms like iPhone, iPad, and Mac, but they plug it into certain ones.

So I'm not sure which these will go into. I think maybe the Mac OS segment, but. I'm gonna say keynote pages and numbers. They're gonna show off some iWork features that are specifically LLM or AI related, which they've been saying AI a ton, so I think they're just gonna say AI in the keynote. Yeah, I think there's gonna be a bunch of features for those for the iWork suite.

Maybe they'll feature it in the Mac OS part of the keynote, but I have a feeling they're going to break out a whole segment just about AI features. I don't know if it's going to be at the top, I don't know if it's going to be later, but I think they're going to have a whole segment on it. And I'm also hoping, this is more of a wishlist item, that they talk about those features in Final Cut for the Mac.

Things like transcribing, edited by transcription, maybe like, The auto pod style features where you can have a multicam clip and final cut, and it'll go between the active speakers automatically. And so I'm hoping for, for those kinds of that kind of segment about AI, do you think they're going to have an AI segment or do you think it's just going to be integrated?

[00:54:23] Jason Aten: I don't, I don't know. I mean, I think if they have a AI quote segment, it'll be a Siri. I agree with you that what you just described would probably fall under the Mac category because I think that even everyone at Apple understands that no one has pages on their iPhone, so they wouldn't talk about it.

So this is false. This is, I literally use it yesterday. I used it yesterday. You could see it coming too. I could just see it in his eyes. He's like, he just wanted to, he just wanted to hit the mute

[00:54:49] Stephen Robles: button yesterday. Here's a Pages document I created yesterday because my son wanted to invite people to his dance recital and I needed to put QR codes laid out on a page and print it out real quick and I used Pages on my iPhone to do it.

[00:55:03] Jason Aten: I'd send in your messages now, but that, that's not actually a Pages document. That's just a bunch of QR codes. But anyway, But Pages was the best way to do it. In all seriousness, I do think that if they talk about that stuff, that it, that it makes sense that it would be in the Mac. And I, and I, I think, That apple, I actually think they probably will brand all of the AI stuff as like Siri in pages or Siri and in numbers, Siri in Apple music, Siri in this, because I think that that is the, just like Microsoft uses co pilot.

Within everything. And now Google has 17, 000 versions of Gemini plus things, right? Like, I think that that's likely. So if they do that, I think they're going to sort of overarchingly brand it. And then, but I think they'll talk about the sort of the chat ish type features when they talk about iOS, like that just makes no sense because no one talks to their Mac, right?

Like, do you even have the Siri featured

[00:55:57] Stephen Robles: turned on? I disabled Siri on my Mac. Immediately,

[00:56:01] Jason Aten: the first thing in the setup process is like, Do you want to talk to Siri? I'm like, I never want to talk to Siri on my Mac.

[00:56:05] Stephen Robles: Never. No, never. That'll be the next, uh, leave us a five star rating when we review, Do you use Siri on your Mac?

Like, audibly talking to it. Yeah, I don't. Yeah. We'll have to do another poll for that. Do you think they are going to rebrand Siri in any way, either A, using a different name for these AI features, or B, augmenting the name, calling it something silly like Siri Plus? Let Siri AI? Or will it, uh, now my home pods listening to me, or are they going to use a different name?

Cause you know, like you're saying, co pilot is now Microsoft's brand for it, but it was Cortana Cortana was their assistant name and it was not great and nobody used it. So they rebranded a co pilot series, got a lot of baggage on its name. I don't know if we should put some respect on the name,

[00:56:51] Jason Aten: but I mean, so what you're saying is that like the M four Mac book air will be a Siri plus PC.

Is that like the, is that where we're going?

[00:56:58] Stephen Robles: I wasn't going there, but I'm just saying, or maybe, you know, you have Apple TV plus iCloud plus when you pay for that, what if they put some of these behind a paywall, Jason?

[00:57:09] Jason Aten: Well, first, okay, put a pin in that for a second, because I actually think that's a very strong possibility second, because, but I think.

I don't know. My gut says, Nope, Siri is what they're gonna call this stuff. And it's just, yes, there's some baggage, but I don't actually think that non tech people have a lot of baggage with Siri because I just don't think they use it for. I just don't do the people in your life. Well, it's such a hard thing because there's like the self selection bias because, yes, the people in my house, actually, they don't.

They just talked to the Google thing on the counter like that. They never my Children. Siri is not a word that means anything. They have no emotional

[00:57:43] Stephen Robles: baggage. My whole family has negative connotations to it, because all they do is talk to HomePod minis, and the HomePod minis screw it up 90 percent of the time.

[00:57:50] Jason Aten: Well, that's Yes, that's true. I mean, I also have turned off Siri on my HomePod minis, and my Mac. We've had this conversation. The only place I have it on is my watch, and then I can also do it on my phone if I push the side button. But

[00:58:03] Stephen Robles: Right.

[00:58:03] Jason Aten: You shouldn't talk to Siri on any other devices. Just your watch and your phone.

Like, forget about it because it, she'll just wander around your house, like a confused little voice assistant, not knowing. And you'll just hear like, uh, uh, well, I didn't get that. Like from rooms all over the house. Every hell bot of the house is like, are you finally talking to me? No, I'm not. We

[00:58:21] Stephen Robles: need to have Jim.

Have you ever seen Jim Dalrymple just go off on Siri and on social media? He's a musician and he's asking for like, A lot of music and he is so mad about it. But anyway,

[00:58:33] Jason Aten: so I think that they will. So first, I think they're gonna keep the name. I just do. I think that that's in. The reason is, I think what they want to be able to say is this voice assistant that we've had is now so much better because of these this generative AI stuff.

And so I think that that's That's the story that they're going to tell as for the putting things behind the paywall. I think that the chat experience with talking to Syria on your phone, which it will just be better. Hopefully that will just be Siri. Like you just talk to it and it'll just like not be stupid, which is like, seems like it is the barrier to entry, but it's clearly not.

Like, it's just, that's, that's the minimum viable product. The stuff you just described in pages or numbers or whatever, I think that that could very well be a thing that's bundled with like Apple one, for example, or an icon subscription, because that is a very different use case. It is not a thing that everyone will care about.

And it's expensive. It just is. It's expensive to run that stuff in there. Probably if they're partnering with open AI, there's certainly Paying per inference, you know, per query. So, and so I don't think they're going to just give you unlimited, turn my spreadsheet into a beautiful photo of the sunrise or something.

So.

[00:59:51] Stephen Robles: Well, yeah, I think you're right. It'll be included either an Apple one or maybe an iCloud plus feature. And that was the thing where they kind of created iCloud plus as a brand out of nowhere, like two or three years ago, and basically said, if you paid for iCloud storage, now you have iCloud plus, and it includes private relay and some other like the mail features.

So yeah, I could very well see that. And to be clear, I think some of the features we'll see is like You know, you're in keynote and you want to generate an image, you can ask it to generate an image, or maybe you have a pages document and you want to say, you select some text and you say, make this into a few slides.

I think those kinds of things would be worthwhile. I think it makes sense to be behind a paywall too, but we'll see. All right, so iOS 18. I'm going to go through just my, my hopes and dreams for iOS 18. And then you could share if you have any, I

[01:00:41] Jason Aten: only have one and it's already on your list. I guarantee.

[01:00:45] Stephen Robles: Yeah, I didn't show, I didn't put my list in the shared doc. So you don't know what I'm saying. I

[01:00:48] Jason Aten: guarantee you that my one is on your list. Well, my number one is screen time. Yes. Yes. That's it. That's the only I mean, I'm flying to WWDC because I just want to find someone and grab them by the collar put them in a room What is it?

Who did who did you want to get into a room with last week for an hour to talk about something? I just The podcast team, that's who it was. It was the podcast team. You're like, give me an hour in a room with the podcast team. I just want to talk to whoever's in charge of screen time and just be like, you stand here while my children send requests.

You, you, you deal with this.

[01:01:18] Stephen Robles: Watch this request reload three times, and then even when I approve it, it does not go to their device. Watch it happen. Watch every time I tap a request on my watch. Never works not once since i was whatever 17 so yeah screen time improvements is a huge deal i still want to see a dedicated iCloud password app i know it's buried in settings i want them to see more i want to see more like entry things like being able to put my passport number.

You know, reward account numbers and be able to customize the login fields because a super annoying thing, Twitch, I had to change my login information for Twitch because they don't allow you to log in with an email address anymore. You have to use your username. And with the Apple iCloud passwords field, it only gives you one place for username, which can be a username or email.

And then one place for password, and you can't add another field to say, here's my email address for this login and my username, because sometimes you need one or the other. So iCloud password app and improvements there. We've heard some home screen UI updates might be coming, like place an app wherever you want, and it not get snapped to the grid.

That would be every, listen, every Android user going to come out of the woodwork, they're going to say, we've had it since day one. Yes.

[01:02:36] Jason Aten: I mean, it would be worth them doing it just for that.

[01:02:39] Stephen Robles: Just, just for that. Yeah. I like to see,

[01:02:40] Jason Aten: yeah, you can make the video about how amazing this new feature is, and you would have 70, 000 comments on that video.

You know

[01:02:50] Stephen Robles: what? I, if they do that, I will literally do a dedicated video on that. With my tongue firmly planted into my cheek and we'll see how many people actually get the joke. The journal app, which I still use and still enjoy. We do need improvements. We need to see that app come to iPad and Mac, but also import export features, be able to search entries, maybe a date picker.

We'd love to see that. So journal improvements, shortcut reliability improvements, because I use a lot of shortcuts and a lot of times it's buggy. The sinking. Stop asking me what update. Like a lot of times when I open a shortcut, it says, you changed the shortcut on your Mac and your iPhone. And it'll be the same date, same time.

And it's like, choose one forever. And the other will be gone lost to eternity. I'm like, please stop asking me this. Cause it's stressful. Uh, so shortcuts, reliability improvements, and then, you know, iOS, honestly, there's, there's a lot of great things about iOS. I've seen that there's some community requests.

We'll try to get to, uh, shortly. I'm about to save those till next week, but anyway, that's my, I was at 18. I mean,

[01:03:51] Jason Aten: well, the only other one I would like to see is especially if they're doing some of the generative AI type stuff is I actually, they don't even need the generative AI stuff, but I personally feel like.

I pay for a subscription to Lightroom because the photo editing tools in the photos app are so terrible. Like they're just terrible. Like they're bad. If you have a photo that you like, I, I shot a raw photo of my secret location. I can't share it with you because that would defeat the whole purpose of having a secret location.

And I was like trying to, it was at night, there was, it was cool. And when you go into the photos app, It's so limited in the, in the controls, like it just, whatever sort of algorithm they're using to like control, like exposure, I think it's called brightness and contrast and all that stuff, but I think it would be much better if you could just like the odd, I guess where my real, where it really falls down is when you hit the auto button, it's like, I don't know.

I feel like it's playing a slot machine. You just don't know what's going to happen. It's like, will this be good? Will this be terrible? Usually it's almost always terrible if it's anything outside of like ideal lighting situations. And so I would like to see them maybe, you know, lean in the direction of some of the stuff that we now see from like what Google has been doing in photos and that kind of thing.

You know, the search features, the ability to be like asking your phone, where did, what was. What's my license plate number? Or, you know, where did I park my car or any of those types of things? And so I think photos is the other obvious area because they've already been doing a lot of it. And this would just sort of carry into the future those things that they've been doing for a while.

So, yeah.

[01:05:26] Stephen Robles: And I do imagine with the AI features too. And like, I think we'll hear a lot about photos, like you're saying. And so we can see that also, I think find my could use some improvements. We have now shared items and shared, uh, like air tags, I believe, but. You know, I use it a lot. I use find my a lot with different devices and stuff.

And so I'd like to see some more improvements there, but so that's iOS 18, this is going to be short, but journal app. I would like the journal app on iPad. I know they say Safari is a desktop class browser, but it's not. So I would love Safari on iPad iOS to just be the Mac OS for it. I don't, I'm not saying Mac iOS on iPad.

I'm just saying I want Safari to function like a desktop browser. And there's really just one website that gives me problems, which is Squarespace. I just cannot manage my Squarespace site. On iPad, because it's just break. It doesn't work. It just doesn't work. So a desktop Safari would be nice. I would love the ability.

I know that this is probably not coming. This is a pipe dream, but the ability to have clipboard managers on iPad, I know it's probably not coming because that would take like system wide, uh, app would need system wide access. Or for Apple to build one in, that'd be cool. And then I talked about this, I think last week, but audio intent, meaning give me like straight up audio input, audio output device in the settings of the iPad.

So whether I jump into whatever app, like I can just set that. It doesn't change if I'm using a USB mic or whatever, and that will make podcasting a little easier on my iPad. That's my iPad wishlist.

[01:06:59] Jason Aten: I mean, I was going to say, I just would like them to put MacOS on the iPad, but I don't even really mean it.

No,

[01:07:05] Stephen Robles: you're trolling. This is your troll. You're trolling me right now.

[01:07:08] Jason Aten: Yeah. I mean, we're not going to talk about that today. I think you can make a case for both, both ways, but I would like a setting. This is true. My iPhone too, where I can. Tell my iPhone or my iPad to never let the app take over the audio because there, there's so many times, like, candidly, the circle app does this every time I'm listening to a podcast and you open the app, there's no audio.

[01:07:35] Stephen Robles: There's no,

[01:07:36] Jason Aten: there's no audio in that app. Well, I guess if you can listen to our episodes in there, but I have to go like two screens deep to find that. Like, there's no reason for it. So I want to just be able to tell the iPhone, never let this app take over the audio. Now, if I push play, maybe I can like, it'll, it'll then do the audio, but like never just let it say, he's going to want to play something out of this.

No, I don't want to do that. I do. I think that, you know, on the iPad, yes, I don't want, I don't necessarily think it needs macOS. The problem. Because I agree with you about the browser. The problem, the reason Apple doesn't put a desktop class browser on the iPad is because the entire business model of the iPad is the app store.

And if you no longer need like, right, if you, they don't want you to be able to do all of the things that you can do on a desktop browser, because what they want you to do is download apps and do things in the apps. And so that, I mean, that's the reason Safari's terrible.

[01:08:29] Stephen Robles: But there's so many things that even on a Mac, like we're using Riverside to record right now, you can't run that into Safari because Safari doesn't allow for that kind of audio and video hardware, uh, deep connections and caching it to the browser.

So I feel like even on Mac Safari is kind of hindered anyway,

[01:08:45] Jason Aten: which is hilarious because we're still running it on Macs. It's like, yeah, you won't let us do this thing in Safari, but you're not actually doing anything to protect us because we're both just using brave or Chrome or edge or something like that.

So yeah, I use brave. Just throw it out there. I do as well. So,

[01:09:00] Stephen Robles: all right. So that's, that's iPad. All right, let's go quickly. I'm going to say there might be a section for iCloud, iCloud plus, maybe not, but I'm hoping for two big features with iCloud. One is HomeKit secure video cameras on the web. So I use a lot of HomeKit stuff.

I have HomeKit secure video cameras, and iCloud website where you can see HomeKit secure video cameras. Like there's a little menu option, but there's nothing there. And so I would love for that to actually bring up my that is

[01:09:28] Jason Aten: trolling. I, if you think what I do is trolling you, Apple is just trolling you.

They're like, click here to see this thing that doesn't exist.

[01:09:35] Stephen Robles: It's a terrible troll. I'll try to pull it up in a second, but it's so maddening because it's there. It even has a little like camera symbol, but it's like, no, this doesn't do anything. We just want to let you know. Yeah, yeah, you use this for your home kid secure video cameras, but that's it.

You can't, nothing else. So I would like that, see I can't share my screen because it has like a bunch of uh, like my data, like my, my Apple ID and all this kind of stuff. If I scroll down, can I do this? Okay, I'm gonna try and share my screen and see. So if you're watching, you'll be able to see this. Share my screen.

Hopefully I don't dox myself here. Here's my iCloud. Yes, I have three terabytes used of my four terabytes iCloud drive storage. Um, right here, look, HomeKit secure video. It's right, it's right there. It says iCloud plus features. Hide my email, custom email domain, private relay, HomeKit secure video. You click that and it just says, yeah, you have unlimited HomeKit secure videos.

[01:10:28] Jason Aten: But you can learn

[01:10:31] Stephen Robles: more,

[01:10:31] Jason Aten: Stephen. You can learn more.

[01:10:33] Stephen Robles: I don't need to learn more. I've learned all I need to know. I just want to see my HomeKit secure video feeds in there and be able to download recordings from the website because downloading recordings from the app is a pain in the butt. But anyway, that's iCloud.

I don't know if you have, oh, oh, my other huge wish. iCloud Drive, please add more granular control over folders that sync to my local devices. So on my Mac I can say, these are the folders I wanna keep locally. These are the folders that I want just uploaded to the cloud, and I don't need locally, especially on the laptop.

I literally had to. Factory reset my MacBook Pro because iCloud Drive went haywire and I couldn't like the amount of work would have been to like right click because you also can't remove downloads for a folder unless the entire folders contents are already downloaded. So if you right click on a folder and half the files are downloaded and half not, the only option you get is download now, so you have to download everything, then you can right click and it says remove downloads from like the local machine, which is insane.

So I would love more granular control over the iCloud drive and tangentially for photos in the cloud. I would love to be able to tell my devices only keep this much space local on my device. So like for iCloud, my iCloud photo library, there's the optimized phone storage or optimized device storage. But it's very nebulous.

It's like, well, what does that mean? Does that mean you're only going to free up space once my storage is filled up? And like, at that point, you're going to need internet to get photos off my phone. And if I'm traveling or if I'm out, you're not going to be able to do it. So I would love a slider to just say only take up 20 gigabytes of my most recent photos and no more.

Upload the stuff to the iCloud and then keep it up there in the cloud until I specifically say download this picture, download this video and then make the decision to remove whatever recent download. So I would love that across all my devices. Yeah,

[01:12:32] Jason Aten: I mean, that's, that's quite a list. I don't think I can top that.

I do. I would like, well, I mean, it's pretty clear that Apple thinks of iCloud is like the back end to keeping sync. For apps and those types of services, not an actual file storage management thing, right? Because you can just turn on like. Backup or sync on my desktop, which is a terrible thing to do. You shouldn't do that in iCloud.

I should not, but, but like it's meant to do, it's like meant to sync things. It's not meant to, you know, be any more complicated than that because really it's, it's like, I don't know, it feels like what we want it to be is. Apple's version of Dropbox plus some other things. And that's Apple views it as those other things.

Oh, and you could use it instead. But like you're paying for four terabytes of iCloud storage. You should just be able to do what you want with it, right? Like,

[01:13:24] Stephen Robles: exactly.

[01:13:25] Jason Aten: So,

[01:13:26] Stephen Robles: yeah, so that's what I'm hoping. All right. Uh, very quickly, we'll go through these Mac OS, we kind of already talked about AI features. I would love to see shortcut automations on Mac OS.

There's still no automations tab to do things like watch files and folders or run automations based on time. So I would love shortcut automations. Like I said, better file download management with your iCloud drive. I would love for Safari profiles and tab groups to get some bug fixes. I don't need any more features, but like whenever I open a new window for a profile in Safari, it opens like Every favorited tab.

And I don't have that set. I have it to only open a certain set of tabs. And what I have to do is close the window, go to Safari, settings, choose, like, choose the same thing in the profile, just open this tab group, and then it'll work. It's just buggy. So I would love for them to fix that. And I'm curious if maybe we see that kind of time machine recall esque AI feature like Microsoft has.

I don't know if I want that. But I'm curious if Apple, maybe they might do that or announce something like that at at dub dub. So what do you

[01:14:26] Jason Aten: think? They should do that. I would turn it off, but I do think that they should probably do that because I think that that is the thing that people would actually want.

I'm the only thing I'm interested in figuring out for Mac OS is I'm trying to figure out what they're going to call it. Right. They were on Sonoma, and so I'm there are not that many more plans. Places in California, they could, is El Camino, no, that's Eldorado. Nevermind. But I kept saying

[01:14:50] Stephen Robles: Eldorado, but I've been saying that the last like five years.

So I don't think, I don't think it's going to happen.

[01:14:55] Jason Aten: Yeah. I don't know either, but there's just, there's not that many more options. And so I feel like, you know, maybe that, maybe that's actually made. Steven, that is the open AI chat. GPT integration is that they're going to, they're using chat GPT to give them a list of names that they can use to call Mac iOS.

That's probably not what it is, but the only other thing in think in Mac iOS that, that I think would be useful is like, there are quite a few, like they put a notch in my, my Mac book pro and. And I wish there was some better controlling bartender is great, but I do feel like some of that stuff should be better controllable in the on the Mac.

I understand why you can't do some of these things on on the iPhone, for example, but there are so many simple tools that I use on the Mac and I'm happy with them and I'm happy to keep paying like I would just pay for bartender because it's a great little tool. But I feel like If you, if you make a physical change to a device, you should also make a software change that accommodates that.

So some of those things I feel like should just be a little bit more user friendly and also they're so, so user unfriendly that like you and I can figure out solutions to that. But a lot of people, like I, people will ask me like, what, what happened to my things that are up here? Like, where did they go?

Why, why can't, why isn't it easy? So I wonder like, really, this comes back to, you know, they read it, the settings app. We also hate the settings app now, you know, but it would be nice if they gave it a little bit. The system's settings app. Excuse me if they gave it a little bit more attention because it looks so much like the iPhone now, but none of the categories and things are the same as the iPhone.

And there's so it's I wish things were a little bit more discoverable. So

[01:16:34] Stephen Robles: I also think you put it this in our notion of, but his center stage zoom like being able to, yeah, yeah. Control the zoom level. That would be,

[01:16:42] Jason Aten: yeah, that's, yeah. It's just like, refine some of these things that you've already done.

Make them like you did, you did the thing. And now that people are actually using this stuff, make some more changes to accommodate those use cases.

[01:16:54] Stephen Robles: Exactly. For sure. All right. Watch OS. I have no idea. I don't know. Custom watch faces. That's it. That's all I want.

[01:17:02] Jason Aten: Custom watch faces. That's it.

[01:17:04] Stephen Robles: Boom. Custom watch faces.

So, do you use the dock? Do you use like the press the crown? Or what is it? I don't even know what you do. How do you get it? I don't even know. You get a swipe up from the bottom. Well, which one are you talking about? You know, you just, you double pinch. Exactly. Which one am I talking, exactly. Thank you, Jason.

What am I talking about?

[01:17:21] Jason Aten: When else fails, double pinch. It's not doing it now. No, there you go. Perfect. It went, it went to sleep. Perfect example. It went to sleep. Perfect example.

[01:17:30] Stephen Robles: Anyway, do you use the little slide up, uh, widget thing?

[01:17:33] Jason Aten: Uh, only if I have timers running. And that's about it. So, I used to use it a lot more, but I, uh, honestly, like, I have on the Apple watch ultra one, two, three, four, five, six, there's like seven complications on here.

There's never going to be a time when I need more information than that.

[01:17:50] Stephen Robles: Yeah. So a new, a third party watch faces a hundred percent. All right. TVOS home kit. We'll say this is the audio and home, but you know, TV and home home kit. New device categories. We'd love to see that matter actually has some device categories that Apple is not supporting yet.

So I'd love to see that better home sharing. Like if you have a home kit lock, there's no way to give like a temporary passcode or temporary access to someone. You have to go to the third party apps to do that. So I would love just better kind of home controls, especially in the sharing side of it. So and better automations as well.

So things like in the EVAP, I can actually create an automation where I have a motion sensor and a temperature sensor out on my patio. And I can create this two step automation where If it detects motion outside and it's over 75 degrees, it will turn the patio fans on, which is really cool automation.

So when it's hot and someone walks out on the patio, the fans turn on automatically, but I have to create that automation in the evap. Because home does not have those kind of conditionals, like if it's over a temperature or, you know, those two step automation. So I'd love to see those built into HomeKit.

Also, automations like if a door is left open for a certain amount of time, send me a notification. Like Home doesn't even do that. I have to use the Acara app for push cuts and shortcuts. So we'd love to see more, uh, automations, better ones like that. And also tvOS, I feel like, you know, they've made some improvements.

They have like the sidebar now. You have the control center. But I still feel like the TV app itself just kind of lacks something. I don't know. Like I'm still not crazy about it.

[01:19:32] Jason Aten: Netflix, it lacks Netflix.

[01:19:36] Stephen Robles: Well, it's like Netflix, but Apple can't control that

[01:19:39] Jason Aten: unless that's true. But then you just, that is the thing is missing.

[01:19:43] Stephen Robles: It is definitely missing that, but I would just love to see a different, I don't know, some, a different organizational thing, cause I always just ended up going to the homepage. With the grid of apps and choosing what I want there. And a lot of times the up next. It's not super useful because like, I think my, my wife and daughter, they were looking at a bunch of old Mary Kate and Ashley Olsen content.

Like they watched full house and they watched a couple of movies, like they started a couple of movies with them, but then decided not to finish it. So now my entire up next row is all like childhood, Mary Kate and Ashley Olsen movies. So it's like, this is not helpful. I have to literally go into each one in long press.

Remove from up next long press remove from up next I would love a better way to manage that I

[01:20:27] Jason Aten: honestly thought you I thought you were gonna say that they were all like WandaVision and Scarlet Witch record Like that would actually be amazing

[01:20:34] Stephen Robles: That would I would have loved that that would actually be amazing to be honest I would have loved if they just binged, you know, WandaVision You just like

[01:20:40] Jason Aten: Apple that is the deepest cut Apple that you guys that you figure Kudos Kudos to that.

[01:20:46] Stephen Robles: Yeah. But anyway, any, anywhere. You don't really use a ton of HomeKit stuff. Do you have any question there? No,

[01:20:50] Jason Aten: but is the, that's the thing. I wish that they just need to buy Google and use the Google assistant app. And that's like, because here's, and listen, I want to use HomeKit. Yeah, I do. I don't have a, I don't know how to do anything.

I have a bunch of things. The only thing I've been able to figure out in home Kit right now, it's not actually a home cut home kit. Why do I keep saying home cut ? I don't understand.

[01:21:10] Stephen Robles: I

[01:21:11] Jason Aten: made a shortcut to turn the lights on that are on my office outside at sunset, and then they go off three hours later.

That's the only thing I have set up in HomeKit, like, because those are all on, um, Lutron switches, right? Caseta switches. So they're super easy to do. That's great. That's all great in there, but half the time it doesn't work. Which maybe there's a shortcuts thing. I don't know. I don't care. I don't want to, I don't need to place blame.

I just, I'd like these things to work. I would love it. If I say out loud the words that you're not supposed to say on a podcast, because people get mad because their home pods go crazy from the home pods to not go crazy. Like I would, I don't want the home pod. Like, why is it, what scenario does someone at Apple think that if I'm, if I'm sitting there with my phone in my hand and I say, hey, iPhone, did the home pod three rooms away should be the one that answers.

Yeah. Yeah, HomePod, you can't do anything except for talk back to me and say, huh? You can't show me anything on a screen. You can't answer my question. You can't do any of those things. I saw it The smart home needs to be a lot Smarter and the other thing is like we have one of those level locks It's just a dumb lock because it is disconnected from homekit so many times that I'm done.

I'm just not gonna bother Yeah, see, it was like the perfect thing I wanted our boys who have Apple watches to be able to just walk up and touch it so they don't, because we're not going to give our children keys. Like, come on, we would get robbed. Like we would have the neighborhood gang of 10 year olds just like coming through our front door constantly.

But I wanted to give them that, but it just keeps disconnecting. And I'm like, forget it. It's just, it's just, it's a very nice dumb lock, but it's just a dumb lock.

[01:22:46] Stephen Robles: Wasn't Yale a sure lock too, or the Schlage Encode Plus? But

[01:22:51] Jason Aten: I mean, it's, there's the home kit, like,

[01:22:53] Stephen Robles: I know, I know,

[01:22:54] Jason Aten: but so yeah, anyway.

[01:22:56] Stephen Robles: Okay.

Vision. And lastly, vision OS 2. 0. Again, I'm not really sure there needs to be more content, but that's not really a dub dub thing. More native Apple apps, I think would be helpful because there's a bunch of Apple apps that are in that compatibility folder, like shortcuts. And I think there's a bunch of other ones, but the more native Apple apps.

The immersive environments, they've had like four immersive environments coming soon since the launch last year. Like if you go to immerse environments, there's like three or four that say coming soon, it would be nice if they stopped coming soon and actually we're here, but anyway, so, and then also features like, you know, there's some third party apps that allow you to get like dual Mac displays in Apple vision pro, like kind of hacks it.

So obviously the hardware is capable of it. And I'm sure some people would like that ability to have multi Mac displays in Apple Vision Pro. So that and yeah, I'm not sure what else.

[01:23:48] Jason Aten: Yeah, just let me rear rearrange. Did somebody rearrange the icons on the home screen? Oh yeah. Rearrange. Oh yeah. The whole old screen.

It's the only Apple device. You can't rearrange the icons on the home screen. And why? In their alphabetical, which, why? Whatever. Like, not helpful. Actually, those aren't even alphabetical. It's the, it's the compatible apps that are alphabetical, those apps.

[01:24:08] Stephen Robles: After Apple's apps.

[01:24:11] Jason Aten: Well, maybe that's true, but like, just let me put like the Disney plus app, the max apps, the free for whatever.

And let me move the compatible apps out of the purgatory folder. Right. That's like, Oh, these aren't real apps. Are you sure you want to open them? And I can't believe there's not like three pop ups and you have to reboot the device four times every time you want to open one of those apps. But I just, just let me put, just let me rearrange my home screen on the Apple vision pro and I asked Apple about this and they're like, um, it doesn't work that way.

I'm like. But it's just, it's just iPad. It's just iPadOS. Come on. Like it's iPadOS on your face. Let me do this.

[01:24:44] Stephen Robles: Also widgets like, like legit widgets and not like apps quasi open. Like it would be nice to do that. Cause there's a bunch of apps that are basically widgets, but they have to do this weird where an app opened in the background and then it stops working after a while, like there's the shortcuts buttons app, which was kind of cool.

It came out at launch and you could actually play shortcut buttons like around in virtual space. But they all act as like quasi apps and then stop working. Or when you restart the Apple vision pro, they all disappear because all the apps are closed when you first open the device. So yeah, that, that is another one.

[01:25:17] Jason Aten: So, yeah. And I would like, if I could, if I could, when I'm taking it off, if I could just give it some kind of an indication, like I'll be back tomorrow. So like go into whatever sleep mode you need to go into to still have battery tomorrow, but also don't go so deep into sleep because there are times when I will pick it up and I'll put it on and nothing happens.

And then I'm just. Staring at a blank black, not a blank, but just like darkness, right? And I'm, and I'm trying to figure out which combination of these buttons do I have to push to be able to see again? And I realized the only option is to take it off my head. And then I think, well, it's probably dead. So I go on, I plug it in and 10 minutes later, I come back and I put the thing on.

And it's like 87%. I'm like, you weren't, the battery wasn't dead. What were you doing?

[01:25:58] Stephen Robles: Jason, what I have to do is I'll just take the little side thing, unplug it, like just turn it 90 degrees and then turn it again and it'll turn on. That's all I have to do. That's all I have to do. That's what I do. I turn to 90 degrees because it disconnects a battery, then connect it again, and it turns on.

[01:26:14] Jason Aten: Yes, but shouldn't there be a slightly more user discoverable way to do this? I just am asking.

[01:26:19] Stephen Robles: Absolutely. It should just turn on. It should just turn on. There's enough The battery has This battery has sensors to know when you Like, I literally have had it on my desk for the past couple days, and any time I, like, tap the desk, the accelerometer in this battery is like, Oh, you want to know what battery it is?

Let me shine the light, and it'll shine the light. There's a little orange light right now. Oh. And it's like, you know, when I touch something tangentially near the battery, just turn on the Apple vision pro when I pick it up.

[01:26:43] Jason Aten: Anyway,

[01:26:44] Stephen Robles: so we'll see.

[01:26:45] Jason Aten: So yeah, really I have nothing. Just, just those 37 things.

[01:26:48] Stephen Robles: No, no, no.

That was big. That was big. I, we, we've gone so long. We need to get to your Lego story. So here's what we're going to do. We have one more episode before dub dub, I believe. And so. We're going to share some community dub dub requests. I already had some from people who left it. I'll put a post in their social dot primary tech dot FM, leave your 18 and everything else.

And we'll share our community wishlist next week. Also, you can support the show at directly in Apple podcasts or primary tech dot FM. And you can hear about Jason's secret location. And of course, five star rating in Apple podcasts, subscribe to our YouTube channel, all the things. Thank you for watching.

Thank you for listening. And we'll catch you next week.