Why Does iPad Make People Angry? Apple’s Crushing Ad, Creepy Disney + Walmart Deal
You have chosen poorly. Welcome to Primary Technology, the show about the tech news that matters. Today, we are going back into the iPad event doing follow-up, things that we missed, and we have a bunch of questions from you, our community. And we're gonna help you decide which iPad to get, if that's even possible. Plus there's been a lot of backlash against Apple's crush ad.
Stephen Robles:We're gonna talk about that. And a grab bag of topics like Sonos headphones have leaked, smart home tech that is dying, and more. This episode is brought to you by you, the members who support the show directly. I'm one of your host, Steven Robles. And joining me now back in the studio, no longer from live from the show floor, my friend Jason Aitin.
Stephen Robles:How's it going, Jason?
Jason Aten:It's good to be back in a setup that I have control over. That's let's just say that.
Stephen Robles:Right. Right. Not in a co working space with dozens of people watching you.
Jason Aten:Right. It was very and by dozens of people, we don't mean the live audience. What we mean is I was literally in a room with a glass wall, and on the other side of that wall were just people doing things. And so it was very weird.
Stephen Robles:That's a core that's a co working space life. Yes. I I used to record in a co working space. And when I was doing the Apple Insider podcast, it was always awkward because you had to reserve the recording room, and so you have like an hour and they would be very, you know, strict about like once your time is up your time would be up, and so we would get towards the end of the show recording and I'll be like, William, I gotta go. Like, because someone's knocking on the door.
Stephen Robles:That was always very stressful.
Jason Aten:Oh, boy.
Stephen Robles:I think we'll do that. So before we jump into all the iPad stuff, a 5 star review, one from Pablo Felix, longtime friend personal friend, I know Pablo, and a longtime listener. So thank you Pablo. If you have not yet, leave us a 5 star rating and review in Apple Podcasts that helps our ranking in the top charts, and you can let us know if you have battery percentage on or off in that review. But I also wanna mention our community is growing which is really exciting.
Stephen Robles:So if you didn't know, we have a community that you can join completely for free. It's at social.primarytech.fm and it is growing. We have a 141 members right now which is amazing and everybody's commenting. We actually did a submit your iPad questions from the event, and that's what we're gonna be using for our Q and A. So if you wanna be a part of that, we posted our livestream from the iPad event there.
Stephen Robles:That's where we announced it first, which, by the way, we had over a 150 people tune in live for our post event recap, which is amazing. Thank you for those who tuned in live, and the livestream has gotten over, like, 800 replays. So that was really successful. Awesome. It's kind of like a bonus episode for this week, so really appreciate that.
Stephen Robles:And our goal still on YouTube is a 1,000 subscribers, so help us get there. We're closing it on 800 right now, so we wanna get to a 1,000 maybe by dub dub. That's a good goal. Mhmm. A thousand by dub dub.
Stephen Robles:There we go.
Jason Aten:I like that.
Stephen Robles:Alright. IPad event redux. We have to talk about some things that have come out since the event as creators have posted some videos and things like that. Wanna talk about what we didn't get, which one of the rumors was that the Apple Pencil, which now we know is the Apple Pencil Pro, you'd be able to, like, flip it around and erase with the back. We did not get that, just to be clear.
Stephen Robles:You can't flip the new Apple Pencil Pro around, but I do feel like the new gestures are probably more useful because you can have multiple things going on just from the tip, and you don't have to flip it around. So I don't think I missed it.
Jason Aten:Right. And you still have the double the tap feature. Right? The same way you can get to the eraser before, you can do now. And I know some people don't like that gesture.
Jason Aten:I it's never been a problem for me. Some I've heard people like it's not reliable. Like, if you're drawing and you need to erase, you just tap it, and then you just go back over. It's always work. I don't know.
Jason Aten:It's just not that complicated. It it seems easier than having to turn the thing around and scrape the screen off with the backside of the Apple Pencil.
Stephen Robles:Well, that is true. I actually use it in Ferrite because you can program that that gesture to play pause. So I can double tap my Apple Pencil and just play while I'm editing the podcast. I do have one curious question. We're not gonna I won't be able to answer this until I get my Apple Pencil Pro next week, which we did order stuff.
Stephen Robles:We're going to talk about what we bought and everything arrives for me Wednesday, May 15th, next Wednesday. But on my Apple Pencil I actually have this little, grip. This is from I think it's paper like. This was the Canoopsy branded Apple Pencil grip. I'm showing it on YouTube.
Stephen Robles:And I'm curious if this will work with the new Apple Pencil Pro squeeze gesture. I'm not sure if it will be too thick to actually register the squeeze. I imagine the barrel roll, which you can actually roll the Apple Pencil to change tools and drawing styles, which I'm not sure how that'll work with the podcast editing I do on on my iPad. Yeah. This paper like grip, I'm not sure.
Stephen Robles:I imagine it'll still feel a squeeze. Yeah.
Jason Aten:I don't know if you'll so the squeeze gesture is I mean, there's no no nothing that actually moves. Right? Like, it's it's not malleable or anything. It's completely just capacitive or whatever they call it, and then there's a haptic engine motor thing that vibrates on the inside that makes it feel like you're squeezing it. So as long as the the, Pencil Pro is able to register that there's that pressure, I would imagine it would still work.
Jason Aten:I don't know if you'll feel it, but yeah.
Stephen Robles:Right. I did actually message the creator of Fairwrite, which is the app I use to edit all the podcasts, this podcast on my iPad. And he's a one man show. He makes the app Ferrite, and, you know, he heard about all the new gestures, wrap up, and pencil at the same time we did during the event. So he's not exactly sure how he's going to incorporate them all, but he is investigating that and and I'm excited to see how how third parties use all these new gestures in their apps.
Stephen Robles:One other thing I wanted to mention, the nano texture on the new iPad Pro. So a couple things here, I'm gonna share this video from and the link to this tweet will be in the show notes as well, but if you're watching on YouTube, this was a video from Brian Tong, he was at the event. You probably saw him there, right?
Jason Aten:Yes, I did. Yep.
Stephen Robles:Yeah. There you go. So Brian Tong, he shared this video. This is the nano texture iPad Pro, which is only available on the 1 2 terabyte models, the nano texture part. And the nano etched glass, the, I was like, what am I hearing?
Stephen Robles:I'm hearing Brian Tong's voice because I didn't mute the video. The glass on the bezel is not nano texture. So when you are seeing the like, it's a glossy bezel with a nano texture or matte finish screen. And I imagine I don't know if you noticed that while you're there in person, but some are saying that it looks kinda funky. I mean, what did you get to see that?
Jason Aten:Yeah. So I just sent you a photo that I think illustrates it really well. I mean, the video obviously illustrates it very well. But this was if you remember when we did the live show and we were talking about it, I was like, oh, yeah. That's what I was looking at.
Jason Aten:And because there was a point at which they were showing me the, the iPads, and I'm like, does that one have a screen protector on it like that? I've never ever in an Apple store or at an event seen anything but the naked robotic, you know, the naked devices, unless it's an Apple case or whatever. So it didn't occur to me at the time that that's what that was when I took this photo. But it definitely it definitely made a huge difference. It was noticeable.
Jason Aten:You can look on the edges. You can see that the that the bezel is just glossy like you'd previously expect. And, actually, if you look at the the iPad Pro on the left there, you can see in the right hand side bezel a huge reflection of a light. Right? But then there's nothing immediately to the left of it.
Jason Aten:Right? Like, it just Yeah. The rest of it, there's nothing. So
Stephen Robles:But it doesn't and this is why I did not go with the nano texture, which we're gonna talk about what we bought, but I did not go with it because I've heard a couple people say you do lose some of the deep rich blacks when you go with the nano texture and some color saturation because just the nature of that, screen technology, it's just not it just doesn't have that sharpness, you lose some sharpness. And so, you know, I don't care about glare as much, you know, I'm usually here in the studio, and I want this OLED screen to have the best display possible. And so it seemed like the nano texture, you would be compromising on some of the benefits of the display. So I I chose not to do Yeah.
Jason Aten:And I think I don't know exactly what the physics here is, but I think essentially the light when it hits the display, that that neon texture, it's like diffusing all of the light across it. So you're essentially getting, like, sort of a wash as opposed to points of light that create glare. It's just sort of, like, just, you know, diffusing that. So, yeah, you are you're not getting the glare, so you're not getting, like, the hot highlight points of it. You're just getting an overall, But you're right.
Jason Aten:You wouldn't you wouldn't get the same. Because if you look at one of the glossy, iPads or they don't call it glossy, just normal ones.
Stephen Robles:No. They actually they do call it glossy when you go to order it.
Jason Aten:Okay. They
Stephen Robles:say glossy or nano texture.
Jason Aten:But when you look at them, and I'll send you this photo real quick, the bezel and the iPad are basically identical in terms of the blackness that you see. Right? And so Right. There there's a there's a dramatic difference between the 2. So, yeah, so the thing you care about is that super deep contrast of the black versus the highlights, then, yeah, the the the glossy would be better.
Stephen Robles:Right. And that that's what I went one other thing I thought was funny, I heard MKBHD point this out in his video. The iPad Air, this is the new iPad Air, The 11 inch is £1.02, whereas the iPad Air 13 inch is £1.36. If you compare the Air to the Pro, the iPad Pro 11 inch is less than a pound, 0.98, and the 13 inch is 1.28. So in a weird turn of events, the iPad Pro is lighter than the iPad Air.
Jason Aten:Yeah. Air is heavier. I don't know that it I think Air doesn't right. Obviously, when it originally came out, the iPad Air was faster and lighter than the iPad. Like, that was what it meant.
Jason Aten:It it hasn't meant that for quite a while because it's I mean, it is still faster than the base iPad, and then I guess it was still technically lighter. But the point was not that that's not the spot that it occupies in the lineup anymore. It's just like the default middle one. Right? It's better than the than the normal because it's got an m processor.
Jason Aten:But I don't I did see a lot of people making a big deal about the fact that now the pro is lighter. But I don't know that that really matters because the iPad Air is still lighter than the iPad.
Stephen Robles:Okay. Yeah. Fair. I just think it's funny, like, Air because MacBook Air still has that, as, like, a quality about the airness. Like, MacBook Pro versus MacBook Air, the MacBook Air is lighter.
Jason Aten:But it wasn't true when there was a MacBook.
Stephen Robles:That is true. That 12 inch MacBook, which can I just say Apple listening? Think an M4 in a 12 inch MacBook, billions of sale.
Jason Aten:It'll melt. It'll just melt. Although, I will tell you, I spent more time than I should have yesterday trying to find a photo on the Internet of someone with a 12 inch MacBook on a music stand because you were trying to find
Stephen Robles:I can't listen. I can't even Jason, I can't I I okay. I'm about to I have to ask you this question once we're done with these follow ups. But I'm writing this question in our notes. Why do iPads make people so angry?
Stephen Robles:Okay. We'll cover that in a second. We'll cover that we'll cover that in a second. People are so mad. People are so mad about, if you enjoy using an iPad.
Stephen Robles:Anyway, we'll talk about that in a second. I also thought that I public I posted a screenshot of the Nano Texture Care, the Apple Support article. This is for the Pro Display XDR, which is different, and so I'm curious if you heard in the hands on or if you asked anybody about it, but if you were to get a Pro Display XDR, which is the only other I can no, that's not true. The Studio Display, also you can get nano texture. For both of those, they say Apple says to use only the polishing cloth that came with your Studio Display, Pro Display XDR, or Imac.
Stephen Robles:I didn't think I don't think the Imac had.
Jason Aten:No. But there is a polishing cloth that you can get with it.
Stephen Robles:Okay. Sure. Well, you know, when the Pro Display XDR came out, there was I remember a lot in the news of, like, you know, you have to be careful because the nano texture process is this and that. Use the Apple polishing cloths that cost $30 or whatever and like any other polishing cloth, you're going to mess something up. And so I'm curious, there's not a support article yet on the nano texture iPads.
Stephen Robles:There is a polishing cloth that comes with it if you get I don't know if it comes with all iPad Pros or just the nano texture ones, but I'm curious if the care instructions are going to be as particular for the Nanotexture iPad Pros. And if so, how does that speak to durability? I'm not sure. Did you hear anything about that? Or
Jason Aten:So there is a difference between the nano texture on the those monitor displays and the one on the iPad Pro. Those the the Studio Display and the Pro Display XDR, they actually use, I think they said, like, lasers to etch a pattern on the thing. So it's actually a physical etching on it, Whereas on the iPad Pro, it's a chemical. I don't know if it's like a chemical etching or if it's just some kind of a texture somehow built in. But so it's not it is there is a difference.
Jason Aten:My thought is Apple put it on a device that's designed to be touched with your fingers. I have to feel like they understand that people are going to be cleaning them. And I don't think I mean, let's think about how, you know, averse apple is to creating, you know, really want Smudgegate or, you know, Nanogate or something like that. They they would not have put this product out into the wild if they weren't pretty confident that it would be able to live up to the things that an iPad does. That doesn't mean that there won't be someone out there who's like, look at my nano texture iPad after 6 months of scrubbing it with sandpaper.
Jason Aten:I don't I mean, that's probably a thing that will happen. But I mean, because, you know, there's YouTubers. They can't wait to get a hold of those 13 inch pros just to
Stephen Robles:to see how far they can bend them. I I am not one of those you I'm shaking my apple pencil. I am not one of those YouTubers, but I guarantee you there will be someone, I think I probably know who it's gonna be, is gonna take that 13 inch thinnest product, the thinnest Apple product ever, and try to, like, put it in some cargo pocket of his pants and sit on it and, try and call a new bendgate.
Jason Aten:Did you see the k b h d overview where he literally talked about it and then he had the little face that popped up of wasn't it I think it was Jerry rig everything or whatever that, like, popped up.
Stephen Robles:Yes. It, like, popped up on the side. Like, listen. A 13 inch, 5.1 millimeter thick iPad, guess what? You put it under enough pressure, it's gonna bend.
Jason Aten:Yeah. You're not supposed to sit on them. They're not seat warmers. It's it's yeah.
Stephen Robles:If you put it under a hydraulic press and crush the hopes and dreams of creatives everywhere well, we're gonna talk about the ad in a second.
Jason Aten:Yeah.
Stephen Robles:I just said hashtag too soon. Alright. Let's talk about our current state of iPads because I don't I don't know if there was any more follow-up that we could talk about just yet. We're gonna get these next week. We'll have them in hand for the next episode, which is amazing because they arrive on Wednesday, which is an interesting delivery.
Stephen Robles:Usually, it's like Fridays. Now it's
Jason Aten:Yeah. I had to actually look and think about that because when I was writing sort of a summary article of the event and I'm like, these are available. And I'm I was like, wait. When are they available? The 5th the 5th 15th?
Jason Aten:That's just kinda weird.
Stephen Robles:Yeah. 15th. I'm sorry. You know, I'm a little I'm a little distracted because I think my kids have moved around the objects on my shelves in the background of my video. I see I see, I see my hourglass up here.
Stephen Robles:Anyway, I have to fix all that one more time for you. Anyway, it's fine. It looks okay. So what do we have and what did we buy? And then we're going to answer some of the questions that came in from our community.
Stephen Robles:So right for the last probably, what, 5 or 6 months, this has been my only iPad, the trusty iPad Mini, which Tim Cook did say one line about. I went back and watched the whole event and he was like, and we still have the small but mighty iPad Mini. It's like, I don't know if you could say it's mighty anymore. It doesn't have an M chip. It doesn't have a promotion screen, but whatever.
Stephen Robles:But I'm iPad mini only because if you remember the saga, my my wife had actually dropped her M1 iPad Pro, which she was using for sheet music. Like, that was her computer. It was, like, the only computing device she has. And the sleep button stopped working and then also caused it to like do a boot loop. I actually popped that button out, but you can't put it to sleep with that.
Stephen Robles:So I actually am letting one of my kids use it and there's a shortcut on the home screen to lock the screen because you can't use the sleep button, which that's a thing you can do, build a shortcut that locks the screen. But anyway, so I actually gave my M2 12.9 inches iPad Pro to my wife, so she's been using that. And that's why I've only been doing this, holding out on getting a new iPad for new ones to to launch. So this is my only one. The Mini, honestly, it does great.
Stephen Robles:I edit this podcast on the Mini, I read ebooks on this Mini, I'll browse the web sometimes on it, But this has been my only iPad with just the Apple Folio case and, that's it. So I was excited for these new ones. Which do you I mean, you said you just said a second ago, you have 4 Apple Pencils in front of you. How many iPads you got sitting around?
Jason Aten:Well, okay. I shouldn't have said that because the the reason I made the joke about having 4 Apple Pencils in front of me is because the the screen now has 4 Apple Pencils on it, but I really do. But the problem is they're all from previous review units that have been sent to me. And I put them everything back in a box, and then I forget, oh, shoot. I have an Apple Pencil over there.
Jason Aten:So I just I probably should just put a bunch of these in a ziplock bag and put a stamp on it and send them back to Cupertino because but I do actually own one. But
Stephen Robles:Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. So do you have, like, a review Apple pencil you know from, like, years ago?
Jason Aten:I have had the the one that when they introduced the 10th generation iPad and they sent out the weird one, I did have one of those.
Stephen Robles:Right. Right. Right.
Jason Aten:And then they also sent at that time one of the original because they also sent you the dongle so that you could, like, review the dongle, which is those I did not have a problem remembering to send back because they didn't work with anything else. Right? But Apple Pencils are so ubiquitous that, like, you pick one up, snap it to the side, and it's like, now this is my Apple Pencil. Right? And so but last night, my wife brought me one in that was, like, under the seat of a car.
Jason Aten:And she's like, do you need this? And I'm like, I had no idea it still existed. It's, like, just fine.
Stephen Robles:I'm very curious. We're gonna talk about it on next week's show, but I'm gonna test all, like, this current second gen Apple Pencil with the new iPad Pro, which supposedly doesn't work because the magnets are in a different place. And a lot of people were asking on social media, why doesn't or no. I think this one will work with the new iPad Pro, but the new Apple Pencil, it
Jason Aten:does not. Nope. And the reason is so you could, because I did ask about this. You could probably, speaking of Jerry Rigg, get it to attach to the top just because there's still magnets in both pieces, but they will not be aligned to charge or to pair. And so you could technically, if you just wanted to carry around your current Apple Pencil on your new iPad, but it won't do anything.
Jason Aten:Because the problem is it's not that the, like, there's something different about the pencil signal going to the it's that they won't pair to each other because they don't align the way that they're supposed to. So you could stick it on the side, and I would assume that it's probably true that you could stick the pencil pro on the side of an existing iPad maybe. But, like, it'd be a weird alignment. You would not like it, Steven, because you are very particular about how your your pencil aligns.
Stephen Robles:Which listen, basic Apple guy. I know he's gonna when I put the Apple Pencil on my iPad, I put the tip of the Apple Pencil pointing up towards the volume buttons like if this was an eye of linens because that's I see Apple doing it the opposite way in all the videos, Apple. No. No. I don't like it.
Jason Aten:See, I don't I've I in my life, I've never once thought about what direction it's pointing.
Stephen Robles:Listen, I'm very particular about things.
Jason Aten:Anyway Anyway.
Stephen Robles:I'm gonna try it anyways. I'm curious, like, if you can, like, on the if you have this Apple Pencil, the old one with the new iPad Pro, if you can like kind of slowly float it along the edge and eventually it, like, says it's charging. I don't know. I'm gonna try a bunch of weird things with it. I'm also so if you get just say a new iPad Pro, one of the new M fours, your two pencil options then are, I guess, are the Apple Pencil Pro and the USB C one?
Jason Aten:Correct. Is that? Yep.
Stephen Robles:Which I guess Well
Jason Aten:and that's just because you can attach it physically to it. So you it'll pair and charge that way. That's essentially so, like, people think that there's some sort of, like, voodoo reason that Apple is limiting things this way. It's no. It's just will it charge and will it pair?
Jason Aten:And if it will if the answer to that is yes, you can use whatever Apple Pencil meets that criteria. But just think about the current Apple Pencil, and by current, I mean, the one you could walk into a store and buy right now versus the Pencil Pro, the magnets in there are different in different places. And so you can't and I think I don't really know the exact mechanics of how an Apple Pencil what it needs from the device in order to initiate pairing because they just pair over Bluetooth, I'm pretty sure. But there's gotta be, like, some kind of NSC or something in there between the two that's, like, connect, and then it'll Bluetooth pair. So if you could if you could fake that somehow, maybe it would connect, but then you wouldn't be able to charge it.
Jason Aten:So, like, you'd have a one time use Apple Pencil.
Stephen Robles:You know, I I have to say I did not think about this, but, like, if my iPad mini is sitting around, when I was using the 2 iPad lifestyle, I had my 12.9 inch and this one, I would move my Apple Pencil from my Mini to my iPad Pro Yep. Just back to the iPad.
Jason Aten:All the time. All the time.
Stephen Robles:It's super easy. You just attach it, and then it's paired to this one, attached to the other one. So with the Apple Pencil Pro that I get next week, I will not be able to do that. It'll just it can only be used by the new info. But that's kind of
Jason Aten:But also, you won't have to do that. You see, it's not no one's making you buy another second gen Apple Pencil. You can just use the one that you have. So okay. Do I am I supposed to explain what I have?
Jason Aten:Yes. But it's okay. You have. I I use the 11 inch iPad Pro. I to me, this is the perfect size iPad.
Jason Aten:I love it. It's it's this is the m two version. I don't know. It doesn't have a it's probably about 256 or 512 storage because whatever. I don't store things on it.
Jason Aten:But and then I also have an iPad mini that I I love, and it's it's great for reading things. The problem for me with the iPad mini, one, it's not worth enough to sell. So that's sad. So I can't really there's no reason to sell it. But it's it's a great reading device, but it's unfortunately, there's it's still an iPad, which means I start reading things on the Kindle app, and I'm just, like, suddenly distracted by you know, I read something.
Jason Aten:It's like, oh, what about this? And I start looking for. So I actually have a Kindle for that, and I don't know why I still have an iPad Mini. But you asked me that one time. You're like, what are you doing using reading a Kindle?
Jason Aten:I'm like, because if I had anything else right now, I would stop reading immediately and do other things. So we do have a collection of we have a 10th gen iPad. We have not the not the m one Air, the one that came before that that still had the form factor, which, by the way 12 z. Still like that home button. Anyway, for kids, it's perfect.
Jason Aten:Those are the those are the devices our boys use is a 10th gen iPad and an iPad Air. And, honestly, that that whatever that is, a 4th gen iPad Air, I don't know, it's the pre m series. Sadly bought that 3 months before they released the m series, but I'm not even sad because it's so good. It is so incredibly good. The only thing you don't get is the new form factor.
Jason Aten:So and then we have a collection of iPads that no longer work, like a second gen iPad Air and, like, a 2nd gen iPad Mini that you can't even update the software. You can't even use the Kindle app. It would be the perfect e reader for me because Safari doesn't work on it anymore. But you can't even upload the Kindle
Stephen Robles:app
Jason Aten:because it's so old. And, like, the way that Apple does the App Store, store, it's like, nope. Sorry. We we don't know where those files are to give them to you. It's like, come on.
Jason Aten:Like, so side loading if side loading comes, we are gonna resurrect that iPad. So, anyway You
Stephen Robles:know, you could just delete the Safari app from your iPad mini.
Jason Aten:Yeah. Yeah. I could. But then would it be but then would it be an iPad?
Stephen Robles:Well, or you could do screen time and disable it that way.
Jason Aten:But I also know the screen time password. Like, then Well, you gotta
Stephen Robles:let your wife set a screen time passcode so you don't know it, then you're not here to attempt it. But, anyway, no, I get it. And I saw someone on social media saying, nano texture display on an iPad mini? Mhmm. For reading?
Stephen Robles:Now that, that would be amazing, because then you could, like, read outside, nano texture, no glare. I think that would be amazing. And also, I I would love it for a promotion. I don't know if the iPad mini is ever going to get promotion, but I'm still still holding out.
Jason Aten:Promise you it will not.
Stephen Robles:Thanks a lot, Jason.
Jason Aten:I know. I'm just being candid with you. Like, you're
Stephen Robles:I know. I know.
Jason Aten:It's also never going to get another spec bump so let's just be honest it's not getting progress.
Stephen Robles:Wait a minute wait a minute because people are asking. I know that's one of the questions our community. You don't think this fall will at least get it a little spectrum? You don't do you think it's dead?
Jason Aten:I think that it is like the m one MacBook Air. It'll just continue to be a product in the lineup until for some reason people stop buying them. And at which point, you'll never have heard of it again. I don't think it's the Newton, but I don't I think it's more like it's more like I I think it's great. I just it's it's like the 12 the 12 minutei and the 13 minutei, the iPhones.
Jason Aten:Like, it's like, you know, they just you can I I think you can still buy a 13 minutei, maybe? I don't know. I should probably look before I say that. But there was a while that they continued just selling that old 13 Mini because they had them in a box in Tim Cook's office, and he's like, well, let's get these out of here.
Stephen Robles:Alright. Well, so what did we buy? I bought an 11 inch iPad Pro.
Jason Aten:Oh. You went back to the 11 inch. Okay. I went
Stephen Robles:back to 11 inch because I honestly agree with your assessment. I had an 11 inch from 2018 to, like, 2021, whenever the, mini OLED or mini LED display came out on the 12.9. I had the 11 inch for years. Love that form factor. And because the majority that I do is editing podcasts, the big screen is too unwieldy because I hold it as a tablet while I'm editing the podcast with Apple Pencil.
Stephen Robles:And so I really do love the 11 inch size. Mhmm. And I already have a 14 inch MacBook Pro. You know, so if I want a larger screen or if I'm working like, I can use that. So I do really love the 11 inch.
Stephen Robles:So I went 11 inch M4 iPad Pro 1 terabyte because I do use I work with a lot of WAV files so I like having some storage. I did get the cellular model and some like sometimes I get that and don't pay for the cellular just cause I don't use it very often, but I like having the option, especially if I do end up going on a trip. So I did get cellular. And, of course and I got it in silver. And I got the new white Magic Keyboard and the Apple Pencil Pro.
Stephen Robles:And one last question before you share what you, bought. The new Magic Keyboard, I didn't see anybody really show this off. Does it seem to bend any more than the old one, or is it the same viewing angles pretty much?
Jason Aten:I can't answer that definitively. I actually think it bends slightly less.
Stephen Robles:Oh, no.
Jason Aten:Well but hear me out. Only because the front of the iPad does not protrude as much over what is now the function row of keys. So I feel like, right, that cantilever, I think that angle is slightly less. I but, again, that I'm just saying that from, like, memory. I'm I could be wrong about that.
Stephen Robles:Okay. So Okay. So what did you buy, if anything? Yeah.
Jason Aten:I didn't buy anything. I I did not buy a single thing. So that doesn't mean that I that I never will buy something. I just Sure. I just did not.
Jason Aten:But, well, first of all, I was in New York City, like, running up and down the streets to get to podcast recordings and get to briefings. And so, it just wasn't at the top of my mind. But I I I am very interested in the 11 inch pro, probably.
Stephen Robles:Right.
Jason Aten:It's tough for me because I do feel like the 11 inch pro is the best iPad. It is certainly not the best size device if you want something that would might potentially replace a computer. So there is always a time when I use the larger size. Like, in the past, I've reviewed the 12.9 iPad Pro and I'm like, yep. This is I should I should get one of these for sure.
Jason Aten:And then you put in a magic keyboard, and it weighs more than my child. And I'm like, never mind. I this isn't I'm never gonna do this. I'm never gonna carry this around as a replacement for a computer. I'm always gonna still have, like, a MacBook Air or a MacBook Pro or whatever.
Jason Aten:So to me, like, I wanna just do iPad things, and I think the 11 inch is is fantastic. So if at some point I do get one, it will definitely be the 11 inch pro. I don't know that I would spring for the terabyte because, again, like, so much of what I would use is either streaming or in the cloud or, you know, file management is actually pretty easy. To me, the thing that makes the biggest difference is, like, how big is your photo library? And because even if you don't have them all downloaded, if you have 80,000 photos, even the proxies are still gonna take up some some space on your on your device.
Jason Aten:And then are you the kind of person that if you go on a plane, you're gonna wanna download a bunch of content like podcasts or videos? Podcasts don't give up any space, but movies do. So yeah. So I didn't buy anything, at this point. I mean, I'm I'm I'm looking forward to, like, reviewing them and stuff, and that will give me a better opportunity to decide if I actually, you know, want to buy something.
Stephen Robles:Let let me, answer this question too because we had someone ask in our community, is the magic Keyboard, the function row, the same as like a MacBook Pro? And so here's the new function row of keys on the iPad Pro Magic Keyboard. You have display brightness, expose, spotlight, Siri, do not disturb, media controls, volume, and you do get an escape key on the top left and a lock screen on the top right. So that's the iPad magic keyboard function row of keys. And on a MacBook Pro, you get the escape, screen brightness, expose, Siri, or spotlight, Siri, do not disturb, media controls, then you have the touch ID button instead of the lock button.
Stephen Robles:So I think it's actually the same keys, the same yeah, the same, layout is a little different. The escape key is larger on a MacBook Pro, but the same keys, same layout. I still don't understand why I mean, backlit keyboard brightness. I feel like that's important, but
Jason Aten:We used to have that. The Macs used to have that, but you don't even have it on the Mac anymore.
Stephen Robles:Yeah. You don't. I'm and I'm looking now at the, Magic Keyboard that I use with my Mac Studio. Hey, it's the same function row of keys too. There's no Right.
Stephen Robles:Keyboard. Well, it's not backlit anyways. The the magic keyboard for
Jason Aten:It'd be real funny if they put backlit controls on that thing. It doesn't even have a light. Oh, we forgot something in that process. We gave you the key. We just didn't give you the light.
Stephen Robles:Terrible. Terrible. Alright. So so that's what we bought. Now, I wanna talk about an article that you had and then compare that to the people that yell at me on social media about the iPad.
Stephen Robles:You had an article about the M4 iPad Pro Apple is just showing off and I think this goes to the conversation of the iPad hardware has been and continues to be incredible, but the software is still what needs to be desired. So tell me, what what was your overall take in this piece?
Jason Aten:Well, and you know, I wrote it essentially just kinda, like, wrote an overview of all the things that they announced, and it's like, you look at the iPad Air and, basically everything you need to know about the current iPad Air is the previous iPad Pro. Right? Like, it's it is. It's like if you like the 12.9 inch iPad Pro, the the you and you didn't have a m two version, just upgrade to the iPad Air because unless you really care about that display, like, I mean and all of the displays on iPads are very good. They're all retina.
Jason Aten:Like, they're very, very good. But unless you really needed that OLED or you really liked the mini LED that was on the previous one, it's literally the exact same physical size. It's it is the exact same physical. It's in it's the exact same processor. It's the m 2.
Jason Aten:Right? So, like anyway. But then you get to the iPad Pro, and they put the m 4 in it. And I, like, am trying to figure out what what do you need an m 4 in an iPad 4? And I guess the the truth is, like, well, it will last you 6 years.
Jason Aten:That's good because it takes about that long to update the iPad Pros.
Stephen Robles:And 6 years 6 years might be conservative. I mean, the m 4 today, Like, my iPad 2, not Air 2, my iPad's 2nd generation still turns on, and you can use it.
Jason Aten:You still do GarageBand in it?
Stephen Robles:No, no, I do not. I do not. But that thing is you know, what, an iPad was 2011? Yeah.
Jason Aten:So So that's
Stephen Robles:12 12 years old for an iPad second generation. And, like, it's unusable right now as far as, like, you wouldn't want to, but it works. And so an m 4 today, I mean, this could be a 10 year iPad for someone who
Jason Aten:Well, let's be honest though. Anyone who's buying an m 4 iPad Pro is not gonna use it for 10 years.
Stephen Robles:Okay. So here
Jason Aten:They will buy the m 5 version the moment it drops or the m 6 or whatever it is.
Stephen Robles:Here is I'm a let you finish. But that's part of my my argument for the for the but go ahead. Go ahead.
Jason Aten:I feel like I just got Kanye there. So, anyway, but I do
Stephen Robles:think beats instead of Kendrick Lamar.
Jason Aten:But I do feel as though the Apple I think they are saying something that they do care about the iPad Pro. I do think that they are I mean, the display alone did require some serious computational work that the m four is able to provide because it's powering 2 OLED displays stacked on top of each other, and there's all kinds of stuff that's happening. There was a really good description of this. I don't remember. Maybe it was unconnected.
Jason Aten:I can't remember for sure which other podcast it was on, where they were talking about, like, you know, an OLED display, not every pixel lights up at the exact same amount just by out of the box. So it has to calibrate and it has to keep track of this pixel if we wanted to, you know, maybe at 70%, and this one needs to be at 40% for them to look the same. So it's gotta do a whole lot of work there, and the m four enables a lot of that stuff. But and there's also some stuff in the like, the multicam support, the live multicam for Final Cut. Like, that's certainly computationally involved.
Jason Aten:But, I mean, you could do a whole lot of stuff in the, with the M2 version. And and there's a lot of people still rocking 2018 iPad Pros. Yeah. Yeah. That are still
Stephen Robles:just fine. Not to.
Jason Aten:Yeah. And so I just think that, like, Apple is doing this because it can. Also, there's been a lot of discussion about TSMC kind of botched their original 3 nanometer process, which is what is in all these current devices. And it was never gonna last. It was never gonna be the process that was gonna continue on.
Jason Aten:And so the only reason that the devices that got the m threes got them is because Apple's like, no, but we bought them all, so you have to make them. The but everyone was in a hurry. This was the argument I made in the in the in our community where people were like, why would they put the m 4? Because they wanted to be done with the m 3 as pass as quickly as possible. Right?
Jason Aten:They just wanted to be done with So, like, I wouldn't be surprised if this fall we see new MacBook Airs with M4s, even though they just came out with the M Threes. So that's why Apple put that in there. I just I my take was I don't think the iPad Pro is going anywhere, and I think this the the company is serious serious about pushing Apple Silicon as fast and as far as it can, and I think that's good for us. Like like, it's good that it is continuing to push that as much as possible. So
Stephen Robles:So I made people mad.
Jason Aten:As you do.
Stephen Robles:Yes. As I do. As you do. I think you're rubbing off on me.
Jason Aten:This is true. Between the 2 of us, I am much more likely on a given day to make someone mad on the Internet.
Stephen Robles:So, you know, whenever there's new iPads that seem overpowered, everyone talks about how the software is the bottleneck and why would it you know, I feel like the sentiment is why would anyone buy an iPad kinda or or why would anyone buy an iPad that cost more than $300? And so I posted this showing, you know, me and my wife, who we both have music degrees, we both use iPads, for digital sheet music, and we use the iPad Pro. Now a couple things. I'm not gonna rehash all the arguments because I was replying to a lot of people. Like, if you are not someone who plays classical type music, it might not make sense why you need a bigger screen.
Stephen Robles:But I will say one of the big reasons why we always went iPad Pro was for the bigger screen. I will say now that we have a 13 inch iPad Air for musicians, I think that is a great machine. Also, if you're only doing digital sheet music, yes, a 2018 12.9 inches iPad Pro also is a great machine for digital sheet music. Like I'm not saying get the new one just for this, but I was trying to argue that there are some use cases, like, I'm just trying to argue that use cases exist where the iPad, just by nature of its form factor and how it functions, is uniquely suited over a Mac. And one of the things I did was show these iPads on music stands, which had a bunch of people then text me links to music stands that hold MacBook Pros.
Stephen Robles:And what I don't think people get is like sheet music especially for classical stuff, it needs to be portrait. That's how orchestra music goes. You cannot turn your MacBook I mean you can turn a MacBook Pro 90 degrees on a music stand, but it's just not gonna go well. And there's no apps that function that way in order to do it. So it's yeah.
Stephen Robles:It's not a good
Jason Aten:Also, that's not any easier than just putting paper on a music stand. Like, what if you're doing all that work, just put if you're gonna do that to your MacBook Pro, just put paper. Yeah.
Stephen Robles:And I did share this picture, by the way. I just wanted to share this because this I this was very precarious, but I
Jason Aten:took that body horror right there.
Stephen Robles:That is body horror. I put it in my M3 MacBook Pro on this music stand precariously and I said, yeah, this this is great. This
Jason Aten:works great. You didn't do that. You just made DALL E create that for you.
Stephen Robles:No. I I did that. I tightened that nut as hard as it would go and I put my MacBook Pro on his music stand.
Jason Aten:Oh, man.
Stephen Robles:So I'm just arguing for form factor. So so that's that's one argument and for everyone saying, like, yeah, just use paper, like, I used to play in jazz groups and the fake books you would have to bring to these jazz jazz gigs would be like this thick because it would have a bunch of jazz charts that you might just pick randomly. If you have to carry multiple fake books plus a few sheets of, folders of sheet music, having Fourscore, which is the app that I use for sheet music on iPad, is amazing. So anyway, that's that case. Obviously I talk about editing podcasts all the time.
Stephen Robles:Do people need to buy the most expensive iPad right now? No. I don't You don't need to. If you can, and you wanna get the big iPad, I think an M4 iPad Pro is gonna last you a really long time, and like what you said, Apple's probably like, well why not? Why would we put an M3 in the iPad when we could put an M4, and make the technology as good as possible?
Stephen Robles:Because like we've been discussing, the lifespan of these devices, I think even iPads probably have a longer lifespan than Macs, although it will remain to be seen with the whole M 1 Mac generation, like, we're still early in that. I think the lifespan of iPads, the resellability, the hand me downness, these are all, like, adjectives that don't exist, but the hand me downness of iPads to, like, kids and family, like, that's what's happening in my family. And it's, again, the longevity of iPad is beneficial. Is it really expensive to get an iPad Pro? Yes.
Stephen Robles:Do most people just need to get an iPad Air? Probably. Now we're gonna talk about like which one to buy. And honestly I've had a couple people message me and they're like, you know I am on a budget but I would like a really good iPad. What do you suggest?
Stephen Robles:And I'm like, if you're on a budget, an M1 iPad Air is great. Yeah. That's a great that's a great option. Or if you want to get an M1 because you want a big screen, get an M1 iPad Pro 12.9 inch. That's a great device.
Stephen Robles:Like it's an m one. It's a big screen and it still has all the Apple Pencil benefits. The the one that I struggle to recommend still is that base model, especially when I know they're gonna be using Apple Pencil because I still feel like the Apple Pencil situation is a little weird on that with the physical USB C charging and all that. I feel like it's not gonna be a great first iPad Apple Pencil experience.
Jason Aten:But I
Stephen Robles:don't know. People get mad about iPads and like
Jason Aten:Okay. I think that the argument that the I iPad is extremely overpowered for its software is fair. Right? Fair. I think it's fair.
Jason Aten:But I think the people who are making that argument mostly just want the iPad iPad to do Mac things. And I think the way Apple looks at it is, like, but we have a thing that does that. We have a Mac that does Mac things. Right? And if you look at the the millions and hundreds of millions of people who who use Apple Devices, Most people are using a MacBook Air for, like, work, where they're doing email and Internet stuff, the, you know, browser stuff.
Jason Aten:Right? Like, if you were most places where you would work, all of the things you could do, you could do on a Chromebook. You shouldn't, but you could do most of them on a Chromebook or or some kind of device like that. You know, maybe you're not on Google's workspace yet or you're at Microsoft or whatever. But, like, they're still you're using their laptop for that.
Jason Aten:And then if they have an iPad, it's like for Disney plus and for, like, whatever. Like, that's just the way that most people work. So the idea of, like, why would you spend 1200, 1500, $36100 on an iPad doesn't make any sense. And even for, like, you and I, I mean, you edit a podcast on an iPad mini. You don't actually need an m 4 for that.
Stephen Robles:I do.
Jason Aten:I do. But, you you know, like, so we're in a weird use case situation. Right? But there are people the iPad Pro isn't even really for you and I. Let's just, like, be honest.
Jason Aten:It's just not it's like because we're not doing the kinds of things that we might be doing that people might use final cut pro or logic or procreate. Like, let's just be honest. Like, the best use case of an iPad is for an artist. Right? And and what I mean by an artist is, like, someone who draws and sketches and does things.
Jason Aten:Or, you know, the there's there's an app for the iPad called SketchUp, which, like, uses the LiDAR sensor to to scan your room and then create, like, a 3 d rendering of it plus a floor plan, and then you can manipulate that, and it'll show you that. Like, that's the kind of use cases that the iPad Pro is really designed for, and the power really like, the processing power really makes a lot of sense. So I do understand why it's confusing to people. I don't think I don't think Apple's I don't think they're putting macOS on this thing. Like, I just don't think that's gonna happen.
Stephen Robles:I think it's gonna happen. I understand why people want it, and I I will make the concession that, you know, this iPad Pro, when I get it, it's gonna have the latest Apple Silicon chip, more powerful than the current MacBook Air because that's M3, this would be M4. I got a 1 terabyte which has 16 gigs of memory. Like this M4 iPad Pro has more powerful guts than this MacBook Air, and I cannot do certain things like run audio hijack on my iPad so I can record audio how I want. And I will admit, there are those kinds of use cases where I do wish iPad OS would move forward.
Stephen Robles:And also because Apple has announced this in events, I think it was WWDC like not maybe it was last year or 2 years ago where they said desktop class apps to the iPad. Like, that was the thing Apple said they are going to open and allow for. And I personally like, yes, Final Cut Pro is there. It's not the same as the desktop app. Same with Logic.
Stephen Robles:But I wish I could do more of those kinds of things. Not that I want Mac OS because I don't. I actually like iPad OS when I'm using my iPad. But to be able to just go in and like choose an audio input device versus output device, or run an app like Audio Hijack, where I can record audio from an app and also record locally to the device. Those are things that, yeah, a $36100 device probably should do, but I not that I'm trying to be sympathetic, but I also understand, like, there's probably a 1,000 very specific use cases like that that iPad users around the world would want.
Stephen Robles:And I suppose Apple is just making the maybe the most like the biggest groups of people use cases, whether that's artists or, you know, the Logic Pro 10. I've heard from a lot of people that that's actually closer to the desktop version than Final Cut. So anyway, I mean, I also understand that consternation and I feel a little bit of that too. Maybe w dub this year, I know we say this every year, maybe iPadOS will see something.
Jason Aten:Yeah. And I here's the thing. I heard a a recent so the fact that the Vision Pro can virtualize your Mac, people are like, well, why can't you just make the iPad do that? Right? You're like, let me run my Mac virtually on an iPad, which you actually, you kinda can with sidecar.
Jason Aten:Like, that's but
Stephen Robles:that I have screens all the time on my iPad, dude. They just control my Mac studio.
Jason Aten:Yeah. So what they mean though is let me, like, just open Mac apps or whatever. But have you ever used a service pro, Stephen?
Stephen Robles:No, actually I have not.
Jason Aten:Which is probably the reason people keep asking this is because like there are Windows devices that are like this. But Windows is atrocious as a tablet. It's just not it's not made for that. And the Surface Pro, because you've decided to make it a tablet, is not a great computer. Right?
Jason Aten:It's it's super limited. My my we had one one time for I think I don't think it was a review unit because I wouldn't do this to a review unit. We had one at one point. This was during COVID, and we were mostly using it as, like, a a Zoom machine, right, for whatever we needed more devices. And, the the other thing that we one of our kids would play Minecraft on it.
Jason Aten:And that thing, I was worried about, like, 3rd degree burns on the back like, on the top of my kids' legs because it would it's like it's not it's not happy. It's real angry right now when you try to do anything. And I don't think Apple wants to create an experience. That's not to say I mean, the m four clearly run macOS. The M3 runs macOS really well.
Jason Aten:So does the M2 and the M1 it's it'd be fine. Right? So I understand that that that's the, that is true. I just think Apple sees this as very different products. And, yes, it would be really nice.
Jason Aten:Like, people want to be able to move them closer together. But I think that we that's such an individualistic look at it. It's like, I want to be able to do this thing, and that's perfectly valid. It's just that Apple is not designing devices for Steven and for Jason and for whoever else. It's designing them for literally more than a 1000000000 people, right, that are buying iPhones and Macs and and Ipads and stuff.
Jason Aten:So I just it's hard to have that, like, broader perspective, but I just think Apple sees this as very different devices. So I that doesn't explain why people get mad because I think the iPad is amazing. I like if I had to choose, gosh, I'd still probably have to have a Mac. But if I if I had a choice, like, just based on what I want, I I'd probably just use the iPad most of the time.
Stephen Robles:So I wanna take a quick break, and then we're gonna answer the community questions, which will hopefully then lead us to what I've had to buy. And we have to talk about the crush ad
Jason Aten:Yeah.
Stephen Robles:Because I have some thoughts on that too. I just want to say this episode is brought to you all of those who support the show directly and there are more of you all the time and so we so appreciate it. Not that they'll hear this, but this is for you, who's considering supporting the show. We ask that you support the show with $5 a month, dollars50 a year. You can do it either in Apple Podcasts or, by a memberful.
Stephen Robles:You can go to primary tech dot f m and click bonus episodes, and you get an ad free version of the show. And, you know, we have a couple, sponsors that are considering so eventually there will be an ad free show but this section will be cut out. Plus you get the bonus episodes every week. We're gonna be talking about Jason Behring and Ethernet cable, which is very exciting. And we might talk about I'm excited about it.
Stephen Robles:And, I think I'm gonna talk about my, Apple event setup in the bonus episode because we had a, like, what do I do to cover an Apple event from home because I had a question about that. So, anyway, support the show, get access to bonus episodes. You get the whole back catalog of bonus episodes as well. And but if you can't do that, we invite you to join our community for free social. Primarytech.fm.
Stephen Robles:You can be a part of it there and support the show with a 5 star rating and review an Apple podcast and subscribe to the YouTube channel. All those links are in the podcast show notes and so we thank you for those who already support the show and those of you who will very soon. Alright. Let's go to our community, Jason. We have questions here.
Stephen Robles:Real quick. We got to be quick. We're running out of time.
Jason Aten:Okay.
Stephen Robles:Here we go. These are the, questions submitted by our wonderful community members. Number 1, sergecj91 says, is it worth getting a new iPad Pro if I have the iPad Pro M1? No. Probably not.
Jason Aten:No. That's probably the right answer. It's probably not. M one, m four, there's definitely benefits. But, like, if you love your iPad Pro, like, really the the m 4 is probably not the reason to do it.
Jason Aten:It's just, like, the OLED screen would be really nice, but I just don't think that's worth a $1,000.
Stephen Robles:Is the, live camera, the Final Cut camera app, and the multi view thing, is that gonna be compatible with older iPads, or is that just
Jason Aten:So yes. It's actually funny. I'm gonna make this quick as I can. I have to look at the page. But when you look at the introduction for both Logic and for Final Cut Pro for iPad 2, they have a bunch of footnotes.
Jason Aten:And some of the footnotes, they require M series and some of them say recommended. It's just really funny the way they distinguish. But basically everything with an M processor will be able to get, basically, most of the features of of that. So Oh,
Stephen Robles:that's great. I still remember on the old school, like, video game boxes you would buy for your computer growing up and at the bottom it would say PC requirements and then recommend it, you
Jason Aten:know? Right.
Stephen Robles:Which it'll run It'll run if you have this, but it's not gonna look good.
Jason Aten:Right.
Stephen Robles:Daryl's asking are you gonna be switching to iPad Pro for podcast editing or will you stick with the iPad mini? I'm gonna be editing on the iPad pro because I got the 11 inch which is gonna feel better editing. And also the ProMotion, I still miss that even after editing on the iPad mini for months. I miss the ProMotion when I'm scrubbing really fast back and forth. All the waveforms are just a blur on the iPad Mini because there's no ProMotion.
Stephen Robles:But I know on my iPad Pro, you know, there's a lot more clarity there. So Yep. Yeah. Still waiting for my mini. Am I waiting in vain?
Stephen Robles:Well, we talked about that.
Jason Aten:Yeah. Sorry. I I don't think I don't know. I I mean, I would love to be surprised, but
Stephen Robles:Yeah. And then, let's see. So Uwe, I think, is from Germany. We he was the one asking about the, keyboard function rows as a MacBook. We answered that.
Stephen Robles:Are the colors really that light? It looks the blue violet looks nearly indistinguishable from the white. How are the iPad Air colors that you saw?
Jason Aten:Yeah. They're pretty like, calling them colors is generous. But I think I I think on the live episode, I was a little bit kinder. And then, since then, I have had some briefings and stuff like that where I paid a little bit closer attention. And in the correct in in a certain light, you could they just all look the same.
Jason Aten:And this is, like, the base the 10th gen iPad, those colors are great. The the backs of the Imacs, those colors are great. These are just slightly tinted versions of gray. So
Stephen Robles:Space black, space dark gray, space gray.
Jason Aten:Space blue gray, space space purple.
Stephen Robles:How does you're also asking how much does the keyboard weigh? I know it's lighter. I don't know the exact amount, but is it I mean, it's noticeably lighter than the old Magic Keyboard. Right?
Jason Aten:Again, like, I I don't know. I don't remember what the specs are. I will tell you it feels lighter. Right? It just it doesn't feel like a brick, like the
Stephen Robles:That's nice.
Jason Aten:The previous version.
Stephen Robles:Yes. How much sharpness is removed from the nano texture? You know, we'll have to review it. I showed that video. If you're not using it in direct sunlight, I don't know.
Stephen Robles:I feel like I would still go glossy for most people.
Jason Aten:Yeah. And I think that, like, that photo that I shared with you does a pretty good job of illustrating how much sharpness you're gonna lose because it was basically a straight on. I mean, it was only the the screen or the, lock screen, so I realized it's there wasn't a bunch of text on it or anything, but you're you're gonna lose you're so the screen is still just as sharp. It's just going to appear less sharp to your eye. So that that was glossy.
Stephen Robles:You're talking about. Right? No.
Jason Aten:That's the glossy one. I was talking about the, the nano texture one. Yeah.
Stephen Robles:So Okay. Yeah. I'll put that picture, in the in the chapter for sure. IPadOS 18, he's asking about we're gonna talk about that when we get closer to Dub Dub and make some predictions there. And Ryan Off was asking, besides the function keys and being lighter, what else is improved over the new Magic Keyboard versus the old?
Stephen Robles:Bigger trackpad with haptic feedback Yep. And the aluminum palm rest.
Jason Aten:Deck. Yeah. The deck is all aluminum. So other and the outside, they actually they actually look basically the same from if if you fold it up and set it down, they basically look the same because it still has the same silicone cover on the outside or whatever. But yeah.
Stephen Robles:Alright. And the the last question on the iPads, and then we're gonna move on. Someone asked me via DM, they've never owned an iPad, but wanna take notes and be portable access for work. Would you recommend the Air or the new cheap Entry one? So she kinda narrowed it down to like, should I get the Air?
Stephen Robles:Should I get the Entry model? And I'll be curious what you would suggest for someone like this. I personally recommended her get the iPad Air with the you know, because the Apple Pencil with the magnetic attachment and charging, I think is a much better experience, especially if she's taking notes. And you can use the magic keyboard with the Air. You can't use the magic keyboard with the entry model.
Stephen Robles:You can get it you know, it has its own smart keyboard folio. But I think the Magic Keyboard is just a better typing experience and better lapability. I've made that a word I think at this point. I find the Magic Keyboard better at lapability. So I suggested the iPad Air.
Stephen Robles:I said if you wanna save some money you can get the M1 iPad Air. I think that's still a great machine. Still works with the Magic Keyboard and the Apple Pencils, so like that would work. But if you can swing the new one, you know, it's got the camera in the right place. So what would you suggest?
Jason Aten:Yeah. I do just wanna say that the 10th gen iPad is very, very good. Like I just, and it's also a lot cheaper now. It's only $349. In my opinion, that's a steal.
Jason Aten:Right? And if what you're saying you wanna do is to be able to take some notes and have some portable access for work, I would not in any way hesitate to recommend to someone the 10th 10th generation iPad. Just to be clear, I think probably a slightly better option would be the m one MacBook Air. Like that I mean, iPad Air. Here we go again.
Jason Aten:I think that's still the best. I mean, in the the funny thing is if someone were if this was, like, what laptop should I get? All I wanna do is, like, take notes and f four. I'd be like, get an M one, go to Walmart, buy an M one MacBook air. Right?
Jason Aten:Like, no, I would say M one. It is so good for 6 $100 like, come on. You can't even beat that. So
Stephen Robles:the value. Yeah. The value is
Jason Aten:amazing. I think it's I think it's great. So, I definitely don't think you need a pro. I don't even think you need the m two air, to be perfectly honest with you. It's just probably not.
Jason Aten:I mean, although the m two air is, like, a good price, but it's not it's it's it's 5 600 bucks.
Stephen Robles:Factor. You know, the the form factor.
Jason Aten:The trick would be well, it doesn't really have it's just got a camera in a different place. The m 2 to the m 2 iPad. No. No. I'm going back to the iPads.
Jason Aten:I'm sorry. Words are hard. I'm sorry. But I think that if you go if you're looking at the iPad, like, you don't necessarily need it. I was just trying to figure out the you can get the m one air refurbished for 33 3.99.
Jason Aten:Like, that's that's a pretty good price. Like, $50 more, I probably would recommend that. Although you're you're you're only getting half the storage. But, anyway, if you're not gonna do a lot of Zoom calls and you don't care about where the camera is, I think either the the them want an iPad Air. But I just the the smart keyboard folio is weird.
Jason Aten:It's not as lappable, whatever that word is supposed to mean. But Lappability.
Stephen Robles:Okay. Low lapability.
Jason Aten:I don't even wanna say it out loud. But it's it but it it has this it feels exactly like the magic keyboard when you're typing on it just to be clear. It just folds out kind of weird. It is a whole lot lighter than the magic keyboard, so there's that which is kind of nice. So I just I think Steven's recommendation is right.
Jason Aten:M one iPad Air, probably the right recommendation in that particular case. I just Steven's pretty down on the 10th gen iPad. I just wanna come here. And as someone who has one, we own 1 and our kids use it, and all they use it for is is like Minecraft. So we're not getting the most out of it.
Jason Aten:But if I had to if, like, if my iPad Pro died and I needed to go somewhere where I was gonna use an iPad, I'd have no hesitation taking that
Stephen Robles:with me. The only hesitation I have is the Apple Pencil situation just because it's so convenient, the wireless charging.
Jason Aten:Yeah. But I don't even know, like, for what we're talking like, this is the first one's first iPad. They have no history with the Apple Pencil.
Stephen Robles:Yeah. But if they anyway. Okay. Yeah. I I get it.
Stephen Robles:I get it.
Jason Aten:That's And that adds another $129 to the purchase price. So
Stephen Robles:Oh, yeah. That's fair. That's fair. Alright. Well, you crushed my dreams kinda like how Apple crushed a bunch of creative tools Yeah.
Stephen Robles:Trying to make that transition. Okay. I have to I just wanna talk about this because Tim Cook, he posted the crush ad that was played during the iPad event and the ad is basically this massive hydraulic press. I'm really hoping they release a behind the scenes footage because I wanna know how much of this is, you know, practical and if there was any CG. I have a feeling, like, Apple's been doing a lot of stuff.
Stephen Robles:Like even with their like Apple watch faces that look like fluid metal or whatever. So I I have a suspicion that this is a lot of practical stuff. And cause I mean, if this is CG, it's it would be incredible. But anyway, so he he posted the video on X, and it's got over 47,000,000 views right now. A lot of the comments are negative underneath.
Stephen Robles:Sebastian DeWitt, who formerly worked at Apple, he worked on the Icloud in design. He talks to that it's just a terribly cruel image. I posted that I was a trumpet major and seeing that as the first thing crushed was kind of sad for me. Hank Green, the science guy, you are today's discourse. Then there's some other responses that I want to get into but overall really negative.
Stephen Robles:Variety put together a bunch of negative responses including actor Hugh Grant that literally said it looks like quote the destruction of the human experience. Mhmm. TechCrunch said the Apple Crush ad is disgusting. That is by Devin Coldaway and his has, you know, quoted many people, linked to many people. And, this is I think I I really like this take.
Stephen Robles:This helped kind of articulate what I was feeling. And this is Adam Lisagore who's, you know, he makes sandwich video. He does a lot of video stuff but long time Apple World. Huge Apple Vision Pro proponent. He's got an app for that.
Stephen Robles:He said I'll read it for our audio listeners and I'll link to the tweet in the show notes. Talking about this crush ad, the advertisers intended to visualize compression of value, which should have been easy to do in a cool way, and instead showed destruction of value with a few boldly misguided choices such as making everything go boom, kill, cry instead of melt, blend, joy. So on the plus side, kind of cool to get an opportunity for culture to talk about how a well intended image released by a beloved company that typically communicates so responsibly went awry and said the completely wrong thing. What were the response and the backlash? So anyway, I I thought that was interesting.
Stephen Robles:The destruction of value versus the compression of value, which I think is what Apple was trying to communicate, saying that all of this creative stuff, instruments, art, music, it can all be done in this paper thin device. I get that that's the message of the ad. But the portrayal, I think me specifically being like a musician and the first thing seeing crushed is a trumpet, which is my like, I literally have a degree in trumpet performance. It it just felt not disrespectful, but it just felt a little unsavory. Because it's like these are still tools of art that you know if you go back I forget where I put it, but like the picture I posted about the iPad is literally me playing trumpet and my wife playing piccolo with an iPad.
Stephen Robles:Like these are not tools that go away because of the iPad, but rather can be complimented and the iPad can compliment them. And I feel like that message was a little lost in how Apple portrayed it. And I thought there was also another interesting take. Sebastian DeWitt again said that, you know, we don't see this a lot if you're in the US or in a country where you have your Twitter set to your region, that there's been a Japanese backlash to this and that there's a belief in the Japanese culture, I'm not sure how to pronounce it, but sokumogami, which is the idea that creative tools can possess a spirit of their own, which has a cool notion. And while I'm not sure if my trumpet has a spirit of its own, I do feel very attached to like when I see a whole piano just get destroyed.
Stephen Robles:Like there's something weird about it. And then there was a response of someone just put the video in reverse and said here we fixed it Apple. You should have just done this instead. Yeah. Which honestly did feel good.
Stephen Robles:And then you of course had your article saying you know it was a heartbreaking iPad Pro ad for some people. So I might say a little more but I don't know how do what do you think about the ad because you I'm curious the in the room response too because you saw this with a bunch of other creatives in the same room.
Jason Aten:So I have three thoughts. The first one is I do wanna thank Apple for giving us the best featured image for every article because every article is the exact same thing. So I do appreciate that piece of this. I just wanna throw that out there real quick. And and in the room, people laughed when that happened because it was it was kinda funny.
Jason Aten:Right? And that was it was what you expect. My take on this and the reason I wrote about it was basically, I think it was pretty obvious what Apple was trying to do, which I think Adam Lisegore's take was similar to what I was trying to what I wrote, which is that they were trying to tell a specific story about how the iPad can do all of these things. And look, it incorporates all of these creative tools into it, or it's a companion for all of these creative tools because Apple has historically been like they have prided themselves on being a partner for artists and for creatives. Right.
Jason Aten:Steve Jobs, especially especially when it came to the music industry, right? He just, he, he genuinely had so much affection for that.
Stephen Robles:They used to have live music performances.
Jason Aten:Yeah. Like, yeah, John Mayer. Like, they just yeah. Exactly. So See you.
Jason Aten:Yeah. But somebody came up with a clever idea. This and, unfortunately, the clever idea got in the way of the story they were trying to tell. And it was such a near miss. Like, it could have been, like Adam said, it could have been great.
Jason Aten:There's so many great ways they could have communicated that. They it's just that no one in the room saw it from the perspective of an artist or a creative. And, like, I I play guitar and I play piano. I have a guitar. The no kidding.
Jason Aten:When I was in college, I drove all the way to Vancouver, British Columbia and got to pick out the pieces of wood that were used in this guitar. It's not even a great, great guitar. Like, it's not amazing. Like, but it is our like, it is mine, and I someday hope one of my children will want to play it. Like, there's the idea of crushing it is crushing, you know?
Jason Aten:And so in the room, most, I don't think anybody reacted super negatively when we were watching it in the middle because first of all, most of us are just trying to take notes, right? And when they show an ad, just to be honest, it's a time to, like, write notes about things that just happened. And, but also, I think everyone in that room is really familiar with the way apple tries to talk about things. So it was easy to see it as the as the story they were trying to tell. But then when you filter it through the you take off the lens of the journalist who's trying to take notes and whatever and put on the idea of, like, if I'm a trumpet player or if I'm gonna if I'm a photographer and I or I'm a guitar player or a painter, and I'm just seeing all of that stuff destroyed And in its places, this iPad, the other thing I mentioned is that you'd the miss for Apple was it just became another tech company that believes that its tech can replace all of the things that you love.
Jason Aten:Right? And it takes that humanity, and it's like, nope. We'll just give you a piece of aluminum and glass. You don't need all of these tools. And people are like, yeah, but I want it's kinda honestly not to go too far down a rabbit hole.
Jason Aten:It's the whole thing behind, like, the self driving cars. Like, we're gonna make it so no one has to drive a car. And it's like, I like driving my car. I don't want to get into a car that I can't enjoy the experience of driving. Right.
Jason Aten:It's like, it's like, no, no, no, no, no, but this will be better. You don't understand the reason I have a car isn't like, cause if that's the case, I'd move to a city that has really great public transportation, and I just get on the bus or the subway or whatever. Like, I enjoy driving the car. I don't always enjoy driving in traffic. That's fine.
Jason Aten:I think that that's where Apple went wrong. It's like you created an amazing thing. It does amazing things. You lost sight of who your audience was, and especially when you did it this way. So I think it I'm really interested to see if or how Apple will respond.
Jason Aten:I tried very hard yesterday to get a response from Apple because it felt like the kind of moment where someone needs to come out and say, hey. We love artists. Right. And we realized that this came across different from what we were trying to say. We wanted to create tools to support what you do, not to destroy or to replace it.
Jason Aten:Man, I really wanted to write about that, but it hasn't happened yet.
Stephen Robles:I was actually interested if they were gonna take like, Tim Cook might delete this tweet or if they were gonna take the YouTube video down which they have not. Like all of this is still up and there's still conversation ongoing about it. And again like who like if this was all practical the time it probably took, the planning, like, it's an impressive video, like from a filming standpoint and effects standpoint, like, you know, kudos to I'm sure there were many hours of work that have gone into it. I also one of the other conversations around this is with the rise of AI generated content, visual effects artists literally not having maybe as much work because AI can do it better. You know, this this feels in this moment, this cultural moment with all the AI stuff, it feels a little more close to home because it's like, oh, shoot.
Stephen Robles:All those things that maybe have been valuable for years, it's not valuable anymore. And the tech companies who also create this AI stuff don't think it's valuable. Oh, no. You know, what does that mean for me? And I will say also I show this video to my wife who's again a professional flutist and several friends who are musicians and it was funny just to see their reactions.
Stephen Robles:I should have filmed it, but I didn't wanna be weird. And, like, whenever an instrument or, like, the piano and guitar especially, like, as those were destroyed, like, I could see them wincing and kind of reacting each time. And, again, like, the trumpet being the first thing just just totally this hurt. But that piano, you know, like there was wincing at every moment but they still laughed when that little yellow smiley face gets stuck at the end. Like Yeah.
Stephen Robles:Everybody laughs at that part. So I understand, like, it's trying to be jovial and and it's saying all this fits in the iPad, but just just something about it, it it didn't it didn't feel great. And again, I get what they were going for and I feel like, you know, even the record player I think is interesting because that's one of the things that they show in this video where like there's been a resurgence of LPs, like, people love buying records and getting these sound systems. It's like, actually, people want some of this analog stuff back. Yeah.
Stephen Robles:To kind of like as a response to what's going on. And so I I'm I'm very curious what the response would be. I in no way think that Apple doesn't value artists or doesn't value these tools. I don't think that at all. I just think the message they were trying to communicate got muddied in the way they portrayed it and that was not great.
Stephen Robles:Actually, there was a the Riverside CEO which, disclosure, I work for Riverside, but, he actually posted a video. I'm not sure where it is. Again, there's just so much discourse about this.
Jason Aten:Right.
Stephen Robles:But Riverside did an ad where basically like using CG kind of took things like microphones and speakers and melded that into an iPhone to show that the new Riverside app is capable of all these things. And honestly, I do feel like it was much more respecting of the tools than this. You know, I think there was just kind of a, I don't know, lack of respect. I don't know what a better word is, but anyway.
Jason Aten:Well, and it didn't help that I was just looking while you were talking, which means I wasn't listening to you. So I'm sorry. But I was trying to find there was a point at which John Ternus actually used the phrase about the iPad Pro that it crushes. Right? And, I mean, obviously, it's setting up the video, whatever.
Jason Aten:But I just feel like, you know, someone had the idea. And then they were probably talking about the fact that the m 4 is so, you know, fast, so much better, so whatever. But I just feel like they just lost sight of the narrative that they were trying to tell.
Stephen Robles:Yeah. So let us know what you think. We might start a whole discussion in the community about this ad because I'm curious that the overall response. But Alright. We need to this is like super lightning round.
Stephen Robles:Super lightning round and then we're gonna get to our bonus content. But real quick, I do wanna mention, The Verge leaked the Sonos headphones that should be releasing soon. The Sonos Ace and considering AirPods Max are still in the wind, will we get an updated version? Who knows? These over the ear headphones might, I don't know, take that top spot.
Stephen Robles:I want to try these. I think I'm excited. They have USB C. I'm sure they do. You you don't care about this because you already you told you you have like a Bowers and Wilkins like fancy headset.
Jason Aten:I got like 8 pairs of headphones and I never wear any of them. So, I mean, I I mean, I have 2 pairs of Sonys. I have the Xm fives and Xm fours. And I have a pair of Bowers and Wilkins that that's what I prefer. I like those Yeah.
Jason Aten:The best. So
Stephen Robles:Okay. So Sonos headphone is coming soon. Disney and Marvel announced that there's going to be a new immersive app for Apple Vision Pro for the What If universe. And after I tried the Gucci thing that you recommended, and to state Casey Lewis from ATP, like, that was really a cool experience and actually gave me a reason to charge my Apple Vision Pro and try it on. So this what if app?
Stephen Robles:Very curious. I think this is the kind of experience that would make Apple Vision Pro worth it. So I'm excited to try it. Do you still have your your review unit sitting around?
Jason Aten:I use it every day, Steven. I don't understand. Yes. I use it every single day.
Stephen Robles:Every day
Jason Aten:I use the vision for I've used the vision pro every day. I didn't use it on Tuesday because I was traveling, but I use it every single day. Not not all day. No. I I every morning I use it and I it's for in my mind, it's like such a great experience for some of the things that I do in the morning, like going through feeds to see what's going on.
Jason Aten:Like, I will use Safari. I will use different, like, you know, like, I'll it's funny, but, like, I'll just open the tech meme site and be like, what happened? What's going on? And read and just like, it's I do all of it on an Apple Vision Pro. Yep.
Jason Aten:I I the first time I look at my email in in the morning is in the vision pro. I know you think that this is crazy.
Stephen Robles:Wait a minute.
Jason Aten:Wait, But I yeah.
Stephen Robles:Wait a minute. Every day
Jason Aten:I use it. I see. I'm serious.
Stephen Robles:I didn't know. Wait a minute. This would have been a whole topic. I had no idea wait a minute. Well.
Stephen Robles:We'll
Jason Aten:save it for next week I guess yeah, but there won't be anything to talk about
Stephen Robles:magic keyboard and and trackpad
Jason Aten:No. I'm using it the way around. I'm using it the way God and Tim Cook intended.
Stephen Robles:You're looking at those tiny links on tech meme with your eyeballs and
Jason Aten:They're not tiny. It's like the size of Yosemite. No. It's not that big.
Stephen Robles:Oh, my good. Okay. We had to talk about this next week. Oh, my goodness.
Jason Aten:I I really don't understand. I I'm being completely sincere. I use it every single day.
Stephen Robles:Oh, my.
Jason Aten:Now just to be clear, I still would not have bought one, but I use it every single day.
Stephen Robles:An hour and 10 minutes in. This is the wildest news that I've heard all day.
Jason Aten:Even better than the shortcuts on the, pencil pro.
Stephen Robles:Actually, no. No. I'm I'm I'm still excited about the shortcuts on Apple Pencil Pro. But, anyway, alright. We're gonna talk about the Apple Vision Pro next week.
Stephen Robles:Every day. My goodness. Okay. That's amazing. Real quick, I wanna we haven't talked a lot about HomeKit and SmartHome on this show, but I do have to mention, Brilliant, which is a SmartHome panel, also worked with HomeKit where you could, like, replace your light switches and use the Brilliant panel.
Stephen Robles:They have run out of money, and it seems like
Jason Aten:As they do. Yeah.
Stephen Robles:As they do. And so they will say the devices will continue to operate as expected through this transition, whatever it looks like. But the main thing is about these brilliant panels that you would control your smart home with, and I have one, is that because they work via the cloud, if the servers ever shut off on the company's side, your panels will stop working.
Jason Aten:Oh, that's bad.
Stephen Robles:That's bad. And one of the reasons why we'll talk about HomeKit more in the future, but when you buy like a straight HomeKit device, like a WEMO plug or an EVE HomeKit thread matter plug. If the company just totally goes away tomorrow, shuts down their servers, whatever, it doesn't matter because those HomeKit devices will continue to work in your ecosystem for as long as you keep them. Mhmm. And that's a big difference between devices like this Brilliant panel, which are dependent on that cloud side, which there was another, I forget what the brand was before.
Stephen Robles:I don't know if it was like Insteon or something. There was another smart home brand that went belly up and then, basically, you couldn't use any of the devices. So, just just be leery. I definitely don't buy any brilliant panels right now. It's just so you know.
Jason Aten:I have a rule. Just this will help our listeners, and I mean this sincerely. And, like, I've got the Lutrons. Those are great, but they don't require any software. Right?
Jason Aten:There is an app. Right? There's an app, but they don't it doesn't make any difference. They do not require software to keep working. You should never ever buy a device that you intend to keep for basically ever.
Jason Aten:And if you're installing light switches, you intend to keep them. Right. They should last for basically ever. Unlike washers and fridges and that kind of stuff apparently. But right.
Jason Aten:That depends on software updates ever or is dependent on something existing somewhere else. It should TVs are the same way. If you buy a new TV, please turn off the wifi. You don't need software updates on that TV. As long as it continues to work exactly the same way is the moment you set it up, you should be good.
Jason Aten:It should just keep working. Because guess what? TVs, that's what they did for a very, very long time. So just never buy a device that you intend to keep for more than 10 years or forever that requires a third party like that. So yeah.
Stephen Robles:Precisely. Precisely. Alright. Last two things, and, we'll have to save our personal tech for next week when we talk about email providers. I saw this article, Walmart Shopper Data will soon feed targeted ads on Disney Plus and Hulu.
Stephen Robles:This is an agreement that Disney has made with Walmart where shopping data through Walmart will then create targeted ads on the streaming service that you might see as you're watching Disney plus Frankly, I just I think it's gross, and they're supposedly gonna protect user data, and like theoretically that data won't be shared. And this reminds me, we might need to do, like, a book club corner in the future. I read, The Power of Habit. It's a book by, Charles Duhigg. And in that book he talks about have you ever read that book?
Stephen Robles:No. It's a great book, but he talks about like the marketing and like data practices of some of these large tech companies. And you know, so many people you probably have heard like, you know, all these speakers are listening to me because when I talk about cruises, then all I see are ads for cruises on Facebook. It's like, you know, actually the ad tech is so good that it doesn't need to listen to the words you say Right. Because you're browsing, purchasing, searching behavior across all the different platforms, whether that's just Google search or Facebook or whatever, it is so good at targeting what you're interested in.
Stephen Robles:Like, the words you say are, like, inconsequential. So
Jason Aten:Right.
Stephen Robles:Like, a, like, they are probably not unless it is in Alexa and b, like, it doesn't matter. Like, there's crazy stories that I might share in the future. But, anyway, this this, like, Walmart Disney plus partnership, I'll have to read more into it, but I don't know. It seemed kinda gross.
Jason Aten:Yeah. I mean, so the but the the flip side of that is and I mean, I'm not I actually need to read that because I just wrote it down. Like, I gotta go put my VisionPRO on and read some stuff. But but we think about, like, the tech companies and tracking and stuff, but retail shopping is by far the most tracking intensive thing because you get, like, a you know, you'll get a up here. The grocery store will send you like this coupon book of things to buy.
Jason Aten:And my wife is always like, this is, this is exactly what we need. I'm like, yeah, it's cause it's exactly what you bought last week and they know exactly what you bought and they just send you coupons. So you'll come back and buy more of those things. Right. And so we don't, it's, you know, we're the analogy we use in our mind is like, how is this even possible?
Jason Aten:How do they know what kind of shampoo I use in the shower? How creepy is it that it must be spying on me when it takes, no, you went to the grocery store and you bought it. And when you did, you scanned your membership card and then you paid for it with your credit card. Guess what? They know all of that stuff.
Jason Aten:Like they know, they know more than you think. And so there's probably going to be some kind of a deal where it's like link your Walmart and your Disney plus accounts, and we'll give you something, right. Some kind of thing. And in the background, they can just, now they can link those. Actually, it doesn't even matter if you use the same email address for example.
Stephen Robles:Yeah. Same email. Yeah.
Jason Aten:So
Stephen Robles:That's people don't realize, like, the same email address you might use for your credit card login, for your Target account, and then for your Disney plus. Guess what? They know it all.
Jason Aten:Yeah. They really do.
Stephen Robles:Yeah. It's it's less creepy that they're not listening to you but actually more creepy because some of the precise targeting that they can do is wild. So anyway, last thing before we get to our bonus episode, Mark Gurman from Bloomberg and then I think John Gruber kind of echoed the sentiment. Can John Ternes, the current head of hardware engineering be the potential next CEO of Apple? John Ternes has been in a lot of keynotes.
Stephen Robles:Yep. He basically did like a lot of the Mac announcements in the past couple years. He was a huge part of this iPad event including the iPad Pro. I feel like, yeah, kinda makes sense. Kinda make, like I know maybe Craig Federighi doesn't want the CEO spot.
Stephen Robles:He felt like more of the, I don't know, face for a long time.
Jason Aten:But Yeah. Well, so to be fair, we're we we have a distorted perspective of this mostly because of Steve Jobs. But being a good presenter is not the primary consideration for the CEO of a 2 and a half $1,000,000,000,000 company, just to be fair. But that said, of think about all the people you've seen in any Apple event in, let's say, the last 5 years. Maybe with the exception of Craig Federighi, John Ternes is easily the best at doing that.
Jason Aten:He is by far the like, he just is. He's the most natural talking you. He's believable. He does not feel script. He's he is significantly better than Tim Cook.
Jason Aten:Like, what's like, at that part of Right? He's better than Jeff Williams. He's right. You know, Craig Federighi is he's just he's a good sport. He's a very good sport.
Jason Aten:Right? He's a good, like, he's just good at doing that stuff. But I don't think that, like, the position that the Federighi has in the in the organization would be the natural, you know, move up to the CEO role. So, you know, the article is just really interesting. It's like, basically, if Tim Cook were to like, something happened to him today, the obvious replacement is Jeff Williams, the chief operating officer, but they're only 2 years apart in age.
Jason Aten:So if in 3 or 4 years, Tim Cook retires, you're not gonna get 10 years out of Jeff Williams at that point. But so you need to look younger. And the most obvious, most high profile executive at that level at this point is John Ternes. And yeah. I mean, I think it'll be interesting because, you know, Apple has had a number of CEOs, most of them in the dark, you know, years when Steve Jobs was gone.
Jason Aten:But, you know, there's Steve Jobs and then there's Tim Cook for most people. That's it. It's it's those 2. And they were very different people and they run the company in very different ways. So thinking about who comes next, if it's Jeff Williams, it's gonna look a lot like it does right now.
Jason Aten:Right? He's like Tim Cook Mini. But if it's it'll be really interesting to see what happens happens next. But John Turner's right now, like, he oversees all of hardware engineering. So Right.
Jason Aten:Like, he knows he knows his stuff.
Stephen Robles:I do see a lot of people saying not necessarily people close to Apple, but just saying that Apple needs a product guy as the CEO next like Steve Jobs was, being like the product visionary. I don't know if that's true or not, like I haven't really thought deeply about it, but I do like that idea. Like that the like a visionary CEO, like being the one, you know, and and Steve had a huge team around him. It's not like it was just Steve Jobs coming up with this stuff by himself, but I don't know.
Jason Aten:Yeah. Which of the big tech companies would they say have a product guy at the helm? Face Meta, maybe?
Stephen Robles:Yeah. I mean, Mark Zuckerberg.
Jason Aten:Clearly, Mark Zuckerberg created Facebook. So I think he's a fraud guy. But, like, Sachin Adela is not purely a product guy. I mean, I guess Sundar Pichai at Google did what did at one point lead the Google search, which is a fairly important product. Google.
Jason Aten:Actually, it was maybe Google Chrome, which either way they're very important products to Google. But, like, that isn't the primary role of a CEO. There's no argument. No one can make the argument that Tim Cook is not 1 or 2, you know, in 1st or second place as most successful CEOs of all time by the metric that matters of for a CEO.
Stephen Robles:Yeah. Especially, yes, for, like, making the company profitable and all that. But I do I don't know. Maybe it's because it felt different. Like Apple felt different having a product person as the CEO because it felt more innovative.
Stephen Robles:I don't know. Like, everything is rose colored glasses too sometimes when you just look back and and think about, you know, iPhone launch, iPad launch, whatever. But
Jason Aten:Yeah. But Steve, like the point is Steve Jobs was a singular in person in this, in the way that, I mean, maybe not quite singular because there you have people like bill gate, like there aren't going to be other Steve Jobs is that are going to come in and take over. Like, even if there was someone who might be, you know, if Johnny Ive had, that would be terrible. But if Johnny Ive had taken over Apple, he's a product. He's like a design guy.
Jason Aten:He's one of Steve Jobs' closest, you know, collaborators, but that he wouldn't be Steve Jobs.
Stephen Robles:I wonder Johnny I probably love this new iPad, though. The thinnest Apple product ever created.
Jason Aten:I don't I don't know. Let's see.
Stephen Robles:I will say It
Jason Aten:still has buttons on the side, so I'm not sure.
Stephen Robles:Oh, that is true. It still has buttons. I will say Tim Cook was pretty cool with these Nikes. Apparently, the Nikes that Tim Cook wore during the event were designed on iPad, by Nike. So there you go.
Jason Aten:Did you see that the event was partially edited on iPad?
Stephen Robles:It's partially edited shot on iPhone. Yeah. They're just doing that now. They're just doing it.
Jason Aten:I mean, if you're I guess if you're releasing a product and talking about how it's going to be good for something, then, you know, you should, dogfood your own product.
Stephen Robles:So They did talk a lot about DaVinci Resolve when the the scary fast behind the scenes thing that they Yeah. Edited in DaVinci, so But anyway, alright, that's the show for today. We're gonna go to a bonus episode. Jason's gonna talk about his ethernet cable. I'm gonna talk about my pre event setup.
Stephen Robles:Join the community. Let us know what you'd like to hear about. We're definitely gonna hear about Jason's Apple Vision Pro experience next week, in addition to reviewing the new iPads. I don't know how we're gonna fit all that in, but we're gonna do it.
Jason Aten:I'm gonna review the iPads with the Vision Pro. How's that?
Stephen Robles:Amazing. I'll find you know, I didn't wear my AI pin today. I'll put on my AI pin, my glasses. I'm not gonna hold the rabbit. Anyway, let me know what you think.
Stephen Robles:Not yet. Give us a That's
Jason Aten:an AI device friends. I just wanna be clear. I'm not gonna hold the rabbit. It's just It's not holding.
Stephen Robles:Oh, no. Yeah. No. I'll talk about the rabbit r one. I don't have a physical rabbit.
Stephen Robles:Anyway, 5th herb, you know all the stuff to do. Links are down in the show notes. Subscribe to the YouTube channel. We're gonna go record the bonus episode. If you support the show, we'll see you over there.
Stephen Robles:Thanks for listening. Thanks for watching. We'll catch you next week.
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