Primary Technology

She has to touch it. She can't not touch
it.

Welcome to Primary Technology,

the show about the tech news that matters.

It is another massive Apple Week.

We have the first touchscreen Mac ever.

We have a new iPad mini, a bunch of M6
products,

plus Anthropic filed for their IPO.

I've had an iPhone duo in my hand for a
week going to do a review.

You can get a Mac Studio now for a cool
thirty thousand dollars if

you really wanted to, and a ton more.

This episode is brought to you by Origin
Framer and you,

the members who support us directly.

I'm one of your hosts, Stephen Robles,

joined by award winning co host Jason Aten.

How's it going, Jason?

I mean I'm gonna take some credit.

I th being ornery as

You are I mean

a co host has paid off for us.

It it it is it is paid off. We have an
award.

I haven't I don't have the physical award
yet,

but I do have our letter signifying the
official ~ win for that.

So

If you're

listening to this ju he just held up a
jury summon,

but it's fine.

That's exactly right. We have so much to
talk about.

~ first of all, I lost miserably in our
debate about what hand you people

use their iPhone in and Jason is clapping.

I am a right handed person and I use my
phone predom predominantly in my right
hand.

And apparently I am in the vast minority
of people who do that.

Jason was the opposite. You you use your
ha phone in your left hand more.

Is that right?

I'll

almost exclusively except and I

Yeah. Hmm.

hesitate to say this in a in a recorded
venue,

but I did realize that there are times of
I for some reason like the other

day I was driving and I had somehow an
alarm was set and I had to shut off an
alarm.

Yeah. Sure, sure.

So I had to reach

for my phone. And clearly I'm gonna use my
right hand because that's

the area that the phone is going to be on.

That's the

Sure.

so what I'm trying to say is the only time
I use my right hand is when I'm driving.

But I don't use my phone when I'm driving,

than you're driving. Course not.

okay, mom?

Of

course not. I've literally set up a domain
and hover while driving.

Anyway. It has auto p the

But anyway, I'm not I'm not proud of it.

And there's a lot of traffic.

car has autopilot. They don't call it that
anymore.

But they call it auto steer, I think,

which is also a bad name because it
doesn't steer,

it just keeps you in the middle of the
lane.

Well my car is sold, it doesn't have any
an it doesn't have auto anything.

But anyway. that's true. Your your car
still has a bubble nose.

It does,

But here's

it does.

so I was thinking about this thing,

Steven, and I'm not going to glow.

But ~ it

But I am.

occur no no no no. It occurs to me

I actually think this is great because it
this is what makes us such a good

co host partnership. That's we we actually
have an award to back that up.

Hmm. Award winning. Award award winning co
host partnership.

Yes, exactly.

That's right.

But it's because

Typically I I thought about this.

I'm like, no, that's not just my
preference.

I'm pretty sure that this is the way most
people use their

Mm.

phone. I just think about it like that.

And Steven,

Hm.

you are like such an enthusiast that it's
hard for you to imagine

why anyone would use it differently than
you do.

That's okay. Like this is, I promise you,

this is not a backhanded compliment.

Sure sure sure.

Because the number

of times when you're like a hundred
percent convinced that everyone

in the universe must do it this way.

I thought. Yeah.

And I'm just

like, no, I know people. This is
definitely not the way that they do it.

You're

a man of the people. You're a man of the
people.

You knew. And so let's read it.

'Cause we got we got a bunch of five star
reviews.

Thank you for that. I also read a bunch of
the YouTube comments.

I read the first one hundred agreeing with
you,

and then I fell into a dark night of the
soul,

so I had to stop.

There are like four or five people who
agreed with you,

Steven, let's be fair. Yeah.

Out of a thousand. Out of a thousand.

So

Apple User Pro from the USA. Thank you for
your five star review.

Said I'm right-handed, but always carry my
iPhone in my left pocket and

use it with my left hand. Hudson Adams
from the USA said I'm right-handed

and I use my phone in my right hand.

So I got one win there. Thank you for

Uh-huh.

the congrats on the award. Rob Owens from
the USA.

And they asked if we talk about AI agents
a lot and we don't mention Grok a lot.

I personally don't use Grok a lot,

but I will say

I have a my wife's cousin's husband.

What do you call that? Your your

Your cousin.

your cousin-in-law. Your cousin-in-law.

Yeah, I don't know.

He works in the health insurance industry
where he like sells health insurance

or whatever. And I hopefully this is not
doxing him.

I didn't say his name, so it's fine.

But he actually uses Grok to great effect.

And he added doing like wild stuff,

reason like aggregating plans for his
clients and putting together reports.

So

Yeah, Grok can do wild things.

I just don't use it. And now that I have
access to Claude Duet,

which I just got access before that we've
recorded the show,

I'm not going to be using Muse either.

So there you go. But anyway.

Mm-hmm.

Evil Manatee. Great name. I also love
manatees,

just saying that.

Even the evil ones.

even the evil one. Says I'm right handed,

but use my phone left handed. So that was
and battery percentage on.

I lost twice on that one. Mike MCS,

left handed left pocket. So,

okay, dominant hand, you know,

dominant pocket.

MTR City Joe from the USA said
right-handed,

but I've always held every iPhone I've
ever used in my left hand.

So again, point for you. Solomon Dix from
the USA,

five-star review. Thank you for that.

I hold the iPhone in my left hand while
using my right hand

for more specifically like scrolling and
stuff.

So he's kind of a two-handed phone user.

So he's using his right hand to scroll and
then he's holding it in his left hand.

And then finally, James J. Kelly says,

~ first time reviewer, thank you for that.

yeah, just said nice things about the
show.

So thank you. But yeah, all the comments
on YouTube,

a vast majority use if they are right
handed,

use their phone in their left hand.

And I don't I don't get it, but I
appreciate it.

So there you go. D

I mean, you know.

do you ever is it because you're doing
stuff with your right hand?

Is that what it is?

~ this is one of those things that I don't
fully understand w

how biology has evolved us this way,

but it just I mean, picking it up in my
left hand and then using my left thumb

is by far the most comfortable way to use
it.

It's not that I can't use it in my right
hand,

but it does it feels weird. And I don't
know,

like if I'm looking at my phone,

I'm typically not doing anything else,

despite the driving comment earlier.

But but

Sure, sure.

I I think it's just but it may be that I
and this could be it.

It may be that I'm used to using my right
hand for we talked about this with like

the keys, right? Or with other things.

Right, right.

It's

like, no, the keys are gonna be in my hand
'cause that's the one I'm gonna have

to use to unlock the things. Or if I'm
writing,

I do that with my right hand. So my left
hand sometimes just feels like a spare.

So like phone, perfect.

Okay,

all right. All right. Well, if you haven't
yet,

you can leave us a five star rating and
review an Apple Podcast.

Let us know, right handed, left handed,

what hand you use your phone in.

Also what pocket. I feel like the pocket
that you choose to put your phone

in has a lot to do with what hand you use
it mainly with.

Well, maybe it's the other way around.

Which hand you use it with probably has a
lot to do with which pocket you put it in.

You can let us know in the in the in the
five

star Indian review. And one picture I want
to share.

This is Kartik at the believe he's in
India.

He's ~ not only watching one of my shorts,

but he has our primary tech polar brand on
the night plane.

I he's taking it to work every day and
he's propping it now just on the

lid of his MacBook Pro, which could be a
touch screen MacBook Pro in a couple
weeks.

Mm.

We'll see. We'll see. But thank you for
that photo.

All right. Apple had one billion products.

I I'm tired, Jason. I'm just tired.

It's just so much.

Tard.

I feel like

It's just release everything. It's like
the Kylo Ren meme with the more,

more. I guess,

Yeah.

you know, John Turner's just coming out
the gate.

I was talking to David Sparks on MacPower
Users and this will come out Sunday,

but it feels like Siri AI forced a lot of
products to be delayed.

Things like the home view, the home pod,

maybe the newer Apple TV. And with that,

we've now just had like a what is it,

a pig in the python is the term where
there's like a Jason's face.

You never heard that term?

G what does my face tell you about whether
I've ever heard this term?

Yeah, I don't like like when a

snake eats something, you know,

there's this huge bulge in the middle of
the snake for a time.

And it's like there's a bunch of products
that because they were delayed have

got pushed up till now. And so there's
just all the things.

Like there were probably

Mm.

things that were long planned,

like the touch screen Mac and the iPhone
Duo,

but then a bunch of peripheral type things
like the home view,

the home pod two, the Apple TV,

that were probably planned to be released.

A year ago, two years ago, but Siri AI
delayed it.

So we have this crazy fall with 1,000
product launches.

That's a theory, maybe that. But suffice
to say,

we have a lot to talk about. So iPad Mini,

it was the first day of this three-day
press release release cycle Apple

has done in the past. Jaws tweeted it,

you know, kind of teased it at the
beginning of the week.

iPad Mini, it's new. It has an OLED
screen,

like rumored, 8.5 inch. It's a larger
display.

With a same footprint body. So they
decreased the bezels,

which I'm very keen to see how that looks.

But you have a nanotexture option now,

which you didn't on past iPad minis,

the A20 Pro chip. So it's powerful,

same chip as the current iPhone.

Has the C2 modem, has Wi-Fi 7,

Bluetooth 6, and thread because of the N1
chip.

Starts at 699. And yeah, this is now a
very difficult decision because.

You can either have a nanotexture iPad
mini built into your phone,

or you could buy the standalone iPad mini,

which now has a larger screen and is an
OLED.

And it's like I know Apple just wants you
to buy one of their products or

as many as you want, but it's like the
impossible choice now.

It's like iPad mini, iPhone Duo,

iPhone and iPad mini. So anyway.

I mean you can

get an iPhone eighteen pro, an iPad mini
and a Mac Mini and still spend less money

than for the amount of

An iPhone duo.

storage that you get for the iPhone duo,

yeah.

Well, we're gonna talk at length about the
iPhone Duo because I have thoughts.

Okay.

And and ~ what device you choose to pair
with your iPhone.

I that is the that is the question,

I feel like, now. And my iPhone 18 Pro Max
also feels like the monolith from 2001

to Space Odyssey. Whenever I lift it.

But anyway, we'll talk about that.

So iBad Mini is out. Also, products that I
think they just wanted to put an

M6 in to get it out there and updated is
the spec bumped iMac and the base model

m6 MacBook Pro.

They have been updated with the Wi-Fi,

Bluetooth, and Thread because Apple's just
putting their N1 chip

in all these products along with the new
six.

So that's cool. but if you're in the
market for an iMac or the base model
MacBook

Pro, then you can get one with an six.

Before you go to the creator show,

can I say something about that Mac the
iPad mini?

Yeah. yeah, yeah.

Because I

told you that I'm probably gonna sell my
iPad Pro.

I'm gonna have to spend

Yes, you did.

some time with the mini, hope to review
it,

but the fact that they put the OLED
display on it is like killer.

Yes. Yeah.

And the screen's a little bit bigger,

that's fine. It supports the pencil pro,

like so you don't even have to buy a new
Apple Pencil.

Yes. Yes.

~

and that A20, especially if you get the
512 where you get the dual new neural
core.

engine thing. Yeah.

Neural engines, yeah.

I I feel like it's gonna really be I mean
it's also like gonna cost

you eight hundred or nine hundred dollars
at that point,

but it's gonna be killer. And

Sure. Yeah.

I was curious because did you see this
this is why I wanted to ask you,

'cause I ~ hypothetically you and I might
have been on a briefing together

to talk about the iPad mini. It's
possible.

Sure. It's pause. Sure, sure.

I don't I might have dreamed that.

But

the the thing that you n that they knew
they were gonna get questions about

was why not 120 Hz? But

Right.

The story I saw was it does have a hundred
and twenty hertz panel in it that

is just limited to sixty hertz.

My question is,

But that's not from Apple though,

right?

that's the story that they're saying is
that the panel

~

that they put in it is is a hundred and
twenty hertz panel that's just limited

by software to sixty hertz. And I'm
thinking,

like, is that just a price differentiation
thing?

This feels a

Hmm. Yeah.

lot like BMW putting the elements for the
heated seats,

but then wanting to charge you a
subscription after the fact.

That would not feel great. And that would
thank you for saying that

was the one thing I forgot to say.

The the no promotion on the iPad mini,

especially when you look at the pricing,

because the iPad mini is closer to iPad
Pro pricing than base model pricing.

And I think what is it? I mean the iPad
Air doesn't it start at like three ninety

nine?

The iPad Air does not start at $3.99.

I think it's $6.99.

does it?

It's got an M4 in it.

Yeah, but I'm looking it up right now.

iPad Air, which hasn't been updated this
year,

I don't think. shoot, starts at seven
fifty.

Never

Yeah, okay.

never mind. Okay. I get Okay,

so iPad minis is cheaper than iPad Air.

I the promotion just feels like I'm
probably the only one that cares about

it on the iPad mini. Maybe not.

Definitely.

But I edit when I edit podcasts,

which I know I'm the only one that's doing
this,

~ the promotion's really nice.

And

I

wish they would have put it in there.

Anyway, I made my request known.

We'll just say that. I made my request
known.

They were expecting it.

Yeah, they they were they were ready for
it.

So, okay, so the M6 i Mac M6 MacBook Pro.

There's also Creator Studio updates.

These updates are not live yet,

so it's not like you can update your apps
right now.

But there's some really interesting stuff.

Jason wrote an article about this,

we're gonna talk about in a second.

But the Creator Studio apps like Final
Cut,

Logic, PixelMater Pro.

One of the most interesting ones,

I think, is Final Cut. Motion VFX will now
be the plugins and a lot

of the animated effects will be built into
Final Cut.

If you remember, Apple purchased Motion
VFX last year

and it was wondering like, how are they
going to build this in?

Well, we're now we're here. And you'll be
able to get Motion

VFX plugins and animations and titles in
Final Cut.

I am curious what amount.

Of Motion VFX packs will be available in
Final Cut.

Like Motion VFX had a huge library.

And I had purchased many packs.

I purchased like MKBHD's Motion VFX pack
for a hundred bucks.

And I just I purchased like a podcast
documentary style animation title pack
that

I use in a lot of my videos. So I'm
curious,

like, am I gonna see those in Final Cut?

Or is there some kind of select,

you know, amount?

And this does seem to be just the Creator
Studio version.

So if you're on the one-time purchase
final cut,

like you paid $300 and you're not doing
the subscription,

you will not have access to these things.

So remains to be seen. This comes out in
November,

this update. And there's also better
implementation of round tripping like

an image to PixelMator. So if you want it
to you have an image and final cut,

you're trying to overlay it on a video,

but you want to edit it, there'll be a
round trip to PixelMater Pro on

the Mac and bring it back. And also,

PixelMator Pro now has a generative fill
tool built into the app.

This will be on the iPad and on the Mac.

That is very interesting. You know,

Photoshop has their generative fill.

I'm sure there'll be lots of side by side
testing of how these two

~ go well together. And then there were
updates to iWork,

which are really fascinating. I'll throw
it to you about the iWorks.

Or did you have any thoughts on Final Cut
and PixelMator or any of

Well

~ I would be interested well, I'm gonna
explain something,

but then I wish they would have done this
thing to also Final Cut.

Logic, I don't know how that would really
work,

but maybe, but I feel like final cut for
sure.

But yeah, so they added two things.

One, they have an AI assistant.

They kinda did before, but they added more
of an AI assistant powered by

Ch by Chat GPT of all things.

I don't get it. I don't g I don't get it.

Or of well,

I they don't say it's Chat GPT,

but it's open AI. But and then

Right.

The part that I was really interested in
is that they added an

MCP support model context protocol.

Yes.

So you can connect, you know, Claude or ~
Codex

Codex

or Chat GPT work or whatever those things
to pages,

numbers, keynote and have it do things for
you,

right? You could just give it a bunch of
text and be like,

make this beautiful in pages or make me a
presentation,

or you can give it a numbers document and
be like

I don't know, probably convert this to
Excel.

Do do ego do equation stuff.

No, I'm just kidding. Like, do

stuff. Tell me, yeah, are my sales going
up or down?

Or where should we like just give it
massive amounts of data and have it do
things?

And I actually think that's really cool
because the story for a long time

has just been that Apple is so far behind.

And I think that the way that they are
doing this is better than the way
Microsoft,

especially, is doing it, but also Google,

because Microsoft is like, you opened a
document.

Here's Copilot. And we're like,

no, I just

I just opened a document. I just needed to
do like do a thing.

And it's like, here's

Right, right.

Copilot. What did you want to do?

I'm like, get out of my face. I just let
me use the things I paid for.

It looks like you're updating your resume.

It's right.

Should I tell your employer? You know?

Would you like me to start looking for
jobs?

It's like, Copilot, go away. I don't want
you to do that.

Exactly. I've notified your manager,

they might hear from other jobs.

Yeah. Yeah.

Go Google, on the other hand, is a little
bit,

at least in the Google workspace stuff,

like a little more chill about it.

You have to like seek

Yeah, yeah,

it out. Whereas I feel like Microsoft is
like

Yeah, someone looking over your shoulder,

like, hey, what you doing there?

Can I can I help? It's like, no.

Would you like me to yeah. So I yeah.

Whereas with so with

Apple though, I feel like this is there is
an AI assistant stuff,

but the NCP is, I think, the part that
makes a difference because I'm sure there

are a lot of people who use their Macs,

who use pages, who use that stuff.

Yeah. Yeah.

But I think that Google did such a great
job just conditioning ki students

to use Google Docs that that's what people
just keep using.

And I feel like this actually gives you a
reason because pages,

honestly, really good page layout software
if you don't need

the advanced features of InDesign.

It's actually really good at that.

Right. Yeah.

And

this is a cool thing where you can now
say,

like, hey, I need a little bit of help.

I made a flyer, but I don't really know
like what yeah,

I don't think you should just have Chat
GBT make your flyers.

Those are disgusting. But I feel like you
can ask

Right, right.

it to do things. And so I do I don't know,

I just think this is the right approach.

I think it's really interesting.

There's gonna be a built-in chat bot,

you know, in some of these. So this is ~
from the Apple Newsroom article,

which I'll link below, but keynote pages
and numbers introduce intelligent

assistance, and there's this chat sidebar
that you can ask it for changes.

You can ask it things like write speaking
points for these slides or help

me animate my slides. You know,

so think that is gonna be interesting,

cool to play with. The Apple Intelligence
features in Keynote up until

now have been pretty bad. Like there has
been a

paste an outline into Keynote and will
generate a bunch of slides.

If you have tried that even now with
Creator Studio,

it is bad. Like it makes bad slides.

They don't look good. They're not
formatted well.

So I'm curious if this is improved.

And then like Jason was saying,

that MCP support, there's a keynote
interchange format.

This is in like Keynote is introducing
support for this format and

an open JSON bundle for that MCP and
agents to work with it.

So I'm curious about this. You know I've I
might be speaking at Podfest in January

I'll try some of these features to see,

you know, how it does building a keynote.

But again, this stuff is coming in
November.

And stay tuned. I think it's it's
interesting.

At least they are providing more value to
the Creator Studio subscription,

which if you were on the Adobe side and
you were paying whatever,

a thousand dollars a month for all those
apps,

like I think Apple's making somewhat of a
compelling case here for Creator Studio.

That's pretty good. And now the big story
is the touchscreen MacBook Pro.

Now,

MKBHD, who put published, he was at the
event,

there was this event in Los Angeles,

which was this is just high level,

first of all. Invites went out to this Pro
Intel event in Los Angeles.

It was gonna be hands-on time.

Apple called it an experience,

and there's just been various iterations
of like how is Apple gonna announce

a product? And I feel like they've done it
every way this fall.

You know, the iPhone event was the typical
the invite press to

the Steve Jobs Theater.

They watch the same video, the same live
stream that we watch.

There's creators there and news
journalists that get hands-on time

and then everybody goes home. And then we
had the welcome home event,

where there was an event in New York.

Creators and news get hands-on time with
the devices,

but there was no official of like video or
presentation per se.

There was like the home view ad,

but there was

Mm-hmm.

no explanation of the products aside from
what the people experienced on the ground.

And then we all saw the videos on YouTube
and social media afterwards.

But there was no live stream, it was just
like the home view ad.

Now we have Pro and Tell, and we had two
days of press releases.

iPad mini on Monday, M6 stuff on Tuesday.

I was refreshing the Apple Newsroom every
10 minutes starting at 9 a.m.

because I assumed they would drop the
press release like the two days before.

But they chose to wait until the
experience at one.

But

As I was refreshing all the social media
feeds at one PM Eastern,

it was John Turnus on stage, like doing a
a live presentation,

but just for the people in the room.

And there was no live stream to tune in.

There was no video live stream like the
scary fast event or others.

And so I don't know if they're just trying
like every iteration of announcing

a new product to see what works and what
they like doing,

but it just it was very different.

And then I like the newsroom article
didn't come out right at one PM.

And so I was refreshing the different
social feeds and seeing five second clips

of people taking, you know, video with
their iPhone of the screen that's playing

in the room and seeing like, glowing Apple
logo is back.

That's amazing. And ~ this okay,

it's official touch screen. And I started
seeing the words proLed,

and I didn't know what that meant.

I was like, why are these people tweeting
the word proLed?

And so it was a very interesting choice to
not do a live stream but have quasi

a live event.

But invite people there, I don't know,

maybe they're just testing the waters.

What does that feel like? I mean,

it what are they doing?

Well, this

one felt even more kind of abrupt than
like the duo thing because I like

I was following along and it's like at one
six it was all over.

Like like he John Turnus got up there,

It was over, yeah. Five minute event.

talked for a minute or two, they showed a
quick video thing or something,

and then it was like it was just over.

And then they were and so the real reason
that they bring everyone there

is so that they can have the hands on.

This is not that dissimilar to like the
five iPad Pro event,

the scary fast event. Like that was
although they were just smaller scale.

They're closer to like what the duo or
excuse me the home view event

was because we just would go to New York,

you're in the townhouse, they had like a
short little presentation,

you watched a video, and then you had time
to to interact with the things.

This is just on a larger scale.

I think they did it in LA because it's
they want it to be they want the sort

of vibe and cachet of it being a pro
creative tool type thing,

right? And so they brought it there.

But yeah, I I think it's interesting the
mechanics of it because they also

Also like dropped an IMAC and I don't
think that was anywhere.

Like it wasn't of nowhere to any event

No.

that was there an IMAC. It was just like
yeah,

this one has an six now.

And then also it wasn't just so there was
that at at one PM Eastern,

you know, they do all that, the creators
get hands on time.

And apparently they had just kind of like
a full day with the people that they

invited because I was seeing posts from
like Federico Vittici,

Christopher Lawley, Andrew, Edw ~ the
YouTuber Andrew,

and like they did a concert at night

Mm.

where there was just like a DJ and they
were doing stuff at night.

And like I couldn't tell like

Okay, I guess this is just like an all-day
experience event thing.

So anyway, that was interesting,

just how they've been doing that.

~ so the actual product, it is a MacBook
Pro.

There's not a suffix like Ultra or
anything else.

It is a MacBook Pro, but it is with a Pro
LED XDR display.

And you might be thinking, are you saying
pro OLED?

Are you saying something else?

Pro L E D

Pro

LED? No, it Pro Led.

ProLED. And if you watch Apple's video on
YouTube for this product,

they say it many times in the video.

It is a ProLED XDR display and touch.

That's like the full name. MacBook Pro
with ProLED XDR display and touch.

That is it. It is an M5 Max or M5 Pro.

Like the rumors, we did not get an M6 Pro
or Max chip.

It is all about the display. It now has a
dynamic island.

It has 2000 nits of brightness.

It is a touch screen.

Promotion. You can get it up to 16
terabyte SSD,

128 gigs of memory. It is the first ever
touch screen Mac.

Now, there are a lot of hands-on videos ~
on st on shorts and stuff.

I will link MKBHD's first look.

He has a lot of hands-on time with it,

talks about his experience. It is honestly
wild to see someone touch

a MacBook Pro screen and scroll between
spaces and pinch and zoom on the display.

And

To MKBHD's credit, he started his video
with the Steve Jobs moment saying nobody

wants to touch the screen.

Yeah.

Nobody wants to touch the laptop screen.

So kudos for ~ for the callback.

But they had in in Apple's announcement
video,

they talk about a lot of use cases ish.

You know, they show people in kind of like
design and CAD type apps pinching

and zooming on different aspects with
their finger on the screen.

And there was a a lot of the demos,

and even there's a video of John Turnus on
the Hello Apple Instagram account

of him like stroking the wallpaper that
says Pro and it like plays harp sounds.

so you can do that. One use case that I've
seen mentioned several times

on social media is developers who are
making an iPhone or iPad app

can now use the touch, like see what it is
like to interact with the app via touch.

on the device they're developing it,

which that was the first time where I was
like,

okay, that that makes sense. Like I could
see why that would be beneficial.

There's a lot of demos of music apps like
Logic Pro dragging the

EQ around or playing a literal digital
piano on the screen.

And it you can do like 10 plus touch input
support.

So you can play like full chords on this
piano.

~ I'll also link Dave to D's video.

he was there at the event and he was like,

Yeah, you know, my arms kind of got tired
after a while because I was

I was holding it up to do this thing,

touching this screen, and you know,

that's you're not gonna do that forever.

You know, that if you're gonna

Right.

be working for hours and hours on a
laptop,

that's just not how you're gonna do it.

Also, as you see the hands-on videos of
this touch screen MacBook Pro again,

I'll link Dave T D's video. This is what
this is his.

If you ever see a screen off

after being touched in this hands on area,

it is a disaster. As you would expect.

Like you there's gonna be fingerprints and
smudges all over

it because you're touching the screen.

And if you have a nanotexture product from
Apple,

you might know like getting fingerprints
off the nanotexture,

not as easy as getting it off the glossy
screen.

And that this is a big touch surface area
to get fingerprints on.

So th listen, this is like watershed
moment.

This is the first touch screen Mac ever.

Which is wild. So we have to see what
developers do with it.

I'm very curious how Mac OS will be on a
touch screen interface.

You know, there's very small touch targets
in the menu bar.

Are you gonna be but you're probably not
gonna be doing that.

But anyway, anyway, Jason, you wrote an
article about it.

Tell me your thoughts.

Well, I th I quote an article almost
entirely about the fact that they brought
back

the glowy logo, which is my favorite
thing.

the glowy logo, yes. And it

Yeah, this is

my favorite thing of the whole thing,

is that they were like 'cause it's been
ten years since they've sold

a MacBook Pro with the Glow logo.

They think that the

Yes.

MacBook Air continued to like twenty
eighteen with the Glow logo on it.

But the MacBook Pro was done at that point
and they replaced it with

the polished alum or you know,

metal logo or whatever. And I just I like
two things about that.

One

You know, it was a couple of years ago
with the M1 that they brought back like

SD slots and they just like we people

Yeah, yeah.

just let's just make it the best computer
possible.

Let's let's stop

The computer people want.

worrying about this Johnny Ive minimalist,

you know, whatever thing. Let's just

Yes.

give people

what they want. And I do think the thing
about the glow logo in some

of our listeners is like, who cares?

It's whatever. It's just a light on the
back of the thing.

But it is

It is a representative for you don't even
see it when you're choosing the computer,

right? So this is

Right.

but it is one of those details that just
shows how much Apple cares about those

about those

Yes.

types of things that just really delight
their users.

And it also does the thing that does the
exact same thing that the new colors

on an iPhone do, which is it signals to
everyone.

This is the new one. This is the one I
mortgaged my house to buy.

Cause you can yes.

Cause you can only get the glowing Apple
logo on this new ProLED

XDR with touchscreen display Mac.

It

Yes.

is not on the M6 MacBook Pro that came out
the day before this.

It is not on any other MacBook Pro.

And I to the glowing logo point.

And they're still selling the other
MacBook Pros,

100%. Yeah, you can get

right? Yeah.

an M5 Pro MacBook Pro, no touchscreen,

save

Right.

$400. It's a $400 difference if you spec
the same spec.

five Pro or five Max MacBook Pro with and
without touchscreen.

So

I'm gonna

not gonna lie though, four hundred bucks
for that.

I mean, the display on the MacBook Pro is
pretty killer.

But the tandem OLED is like whew.

It's pretty killer. This is even ~

and that's the thing. Like, if you like,

I don't know how much I would use touch
screen.

You know, it doesn't support Apple Pencil.

This is not some kind of flip around
screen,

like a, you know, a think pad where you
can like rotate the screen.

Do not flip it around.

Do not

flip it around. Don't bend it the opposite
way,

like everyone's doing with the iPhone Duo.

Like, this is just for your finger,

not Apple Pencil. You know, it is not
meant to lay flat or become a tablet.

This is just if you want to reach out and
touch your

laptop screen for whatever reason.

But to the glowing Apple logo point,

Apple knows what it's doing. Remember,

John Turnus has been there for twenty-five
plus years.

And when they announced it, or slightly
before,

Turnus's profile picture on X changed to
this,

which is him sitting in front of the new
MacBook Pro with the glowing Apple logo

in front. And I you this may be reading
too far into things,

but I don't think it is. I think

Apple is saying to the people who have
been with Apple for the last two decades:

listen, we hear you, and we know like this
is important to you.

And now the guy in charge, it's important
to him too.

Important enough that we're going to put
it back into our products.

And there is no functionality to a glowing
Apple logo.

There is no improvement on the experience
of ac actually using it because like

you said, it's facing the other way.

But it is something that is important to
Apple users.

It is nostalgic. And I think John Turnus
is saying,

like, yeah, we're gonna bring this back
because we want we want our user base

to know like this is important to us too.

And I think that's cool. I think that's
good.

Yeah, I just the word I just use is it's
delightful.

And that is an

It's delightful.

important part of a product. It is one
that you don't think about until

you realize like, ~ this is not as much
fun to use.

And then you and it I mean it is kind of
like the this is this some

of you may disagree, but like it's like
when you put on the Vision

Pro and instantly you can see around you.

You can't use anything yet. But they

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, right,

right.

thought about the fact that if we're gonna
cover someone's face

You gotta see. Yeah, yeah.

You should be able to see immediately,

right? So like all

of the amount of engineering that went
into making sure that that happened first,

unless it's dead and then it takes four
weeks to charge,

but that's a totally different story.

But right.

Would you

s would you say, Jason, that a glowing
Apple logo on the back of a MacBook

Pro might be whimsical?

I would use the word delightful,

but I could potentially give you
whimsical.

I mean, I I'm I'm

Okay. I'm just I'm just throwing that out
there.

not anti whimsy. I'm I definitely think
it's a delightful thing,

right? Because the only thing that take
okay.

Yeah. I

was dis I was designing that t-shirt in
real time.

I'm not anti-wimsy. I'm gonna try and lay
that I'm gonna try and lay that out.

It's it's a hundred

percent true. But the only thing holding
it back from being whimsical is

it is a thing you don't see when you're
using

Sure, sure, sure, sure.

the computer. If it was somehow a element
that you do see,

like I think some of the I think some of
the interactions that they built into
macOS

are going to be a little bit whimsical.

Yes. I think people are going to drag down
to refresh a Safari page

if they have this computer just for the
heck of it.

And then they're gonna wonder why all the
pixels in the middle of their screen start

to go bad after a year and a half of just
doing this.

No, I think

Listen, I spec'd out the MacBook Pro with
touch with ProLED.

Hold on, let me try that again.

I spec'd out the MacBook Pro with ProLED
XDR display with touchscreen support.

~ the one that I would want is like forty
three hundred dollars.

And I said

That's not that bad.

No no no. I just

spec'd out a fourteen inch that I

Yeah.

would want and it was seventy one hundred
dollars.

Well, it's got a hundred

What are you doing? You could try to run
local AI?

and it's got a hundred and twenty eight
gigs of memory,

yes.

No,

see that I was trying to be reasonable,

okay? I was trying to let's just do it.

Let's just do it for fun. Let's just do it
real quick.

So you want s you want sixteen?

No, no, no, no, no. Here's here's

Sixty four, I mean?

let's do this. Let's just do this
together.

Let's do this all together. We're the here
with our audience.

I would here's the one I would do,

Jason. I would do a 14 inch. I would do
silver because I'm like that.

I would get the nanotexture glass.

I'm a believer now. After using it on my
iPad

Absolutely.

Pro, I'm a believer. I would get I would
get the M5 Pro because

I already ha I have an M4 Max Max Studio.

I'm not trying to

That's true.

but I wouldn't get the bin version.

I would pay the two hundred dollars to get
the eighteen core CPU

and twenty core GPU. I wouldn't get
twenty-four gigs of unified memory.

I would get at least forty-eight.

That's true. This isn't gonna be your main
machine.

It's not my main machine, but I would like
some.

And I I usually go one terabyte,

but I would go two terabytes for this
because I want,

you know, hopefully some longevity.

So I'm at $4,300.

Now I tried, I saw how much I would get
for my MacBook Air,

and it just wasn't enough. It wasn't
enough.

But I would because here's the other thing
we haven't talked about yet.

This is thinner and lighter than the
MacBook Pro has been previously.

It's not a lot.

It's like half a pound lighter,

but a lot of people who were there at the
hands-on said,

like, you feel the difference compared to
a typical MacBook Pro.

And that was honestly one of the more
interesting things.

Like to have this incredible display in a
lighter laptop,

because I love my MacBook Air for how thin
and light it is and how easy

it is to just carry everywhere.

And I've had a MacBook Pro.

I think the last one I had, you know,

I had the M5 MacBook Pro review unit,

and it was just too big and chunky.

I just didn't want to take it places.

And I don't feel that way with MacBook
Air.

And so I am curious. Maybe I'll get a
review unit.

Who knows? But if this one is light enough
and thin enough to cross that barrier

and say, no, I'll take this with me.

Like I I want to take this with me.

And maybe the display is good enough where
it's like,

I definitely want this with me.

Because when I go outside and I work on my
MacBook Air.

I

have to crank that brightness to a hundred
percent and even then it's

not brightened.

I mean, to be fair, the current MacBook
Pro would solve that problem for you.

The current MacBook

I know.

Pro has the second best display Apple's
ever made.

But it's not a proLED XDR display with
touchscreen Mac.

I understand,

but your argument can't be that that are
that it might be a good enough display

to want to take with me because the
current MacBook Pros display is amazing.

It's not it right, like we all agree the
best display they've ever made

is the iPad Pro, right? The

iPad Pro. Tandem OLED.

four and five iPad pros have the
tandemola.

That's by far the best thing they've
display they've ever made.

I think the s I've never used a studio
display XDR,

so I can't say for s I can't compare it to
that.

Looking at it right now.

Yep.

But I think the MacBook Pro display is the
next best one that they've ever made.

And then probably the studio display X Dr.

and then maybe the X the old X Dr.

I don't know. I don't know the I d I don't
care after that.

Maybe. I know,

Like I I can do top two, that's it.

I know. Yeah, yeah.

And the fr like if I was a laptop guy,

I would consider this. And I could
probably get great trading value

for my Mac Studio here because I got eight
terabytes in this thing.

And I saw people getting wild trade in
values if they had a four terabyte

or higher Mac. I don't even want I don't
no,

I do want to know. I do I do actually

They're gonna just strip it for parts.

want to know what I would get for this Mac
Studio.

As a trade in. I

He's gonna

buy a MacBook Pro Live on the air,

folks.

No spoilers, you should watch Mac Power
Users this Sunday because I

do buy something on the air. If I get
Jason,

the Apple trade in value for my current

Mac Studio would cover the cost of this
new MacBook Pro.

I would get forty eight hundred dollars.

Mm.

Seeing the zero dollars after trade in
message on the top of this display like
Apple

knows what they're doing.

Yeah. Well, also

that's like I don't know what you paid for
that new,

but probably twelve hundred dollars more
than that.

A few thousand. It was a few thousand
more.

Yeah. Yeah. So it's

I think it was around seven or eight
thousand.

it's kinda tough to like s to take so w to
take like I paid eight thousand dollars

Yeah. It would have hit.

and now I got a MacBook Pro and three
hundred dollars or whatever.

I'm not trading it

in. I'm not trading it in because i my
prediction machine I need all the ports.

And I'm not gonna use a dock, you know.

David Sparks, he's he's doing the Caldigit
dock with his MacBook Pro

and he's you know, the thing is like
cooking eggs while he's recording.

The dock. The dock itself.

Doc,

I got a Thunderbolt one right.

I mean a O W C Thunderbolt one.

I don't know. The one he got it gets real
hot when he's just he's got

It's it's it

so much stuff plugged in.

could probably keep my cup of coffee warm,

but it's not that warm.

Yeah. So anyway, no, I'm not doing it,

but maybe I'll get a review. Anyway,

that's the touchscreen macro pro.

We'll see once the initial reviews come
out.

Read Jason's article. I'm c listen,

it's a new era. Like we are now in a world
where we have touch screen max,

and that has not been the case until now,

which is wild. Touch screen max.

And last thing before we take a break,

because we have to talk about iPhone Duo.

I want to give a quasi review.

You can there's a new Mac Studio out,

Jason. I don't know if you saw this.

is this the

quad max studio that you can daisy chain
together?

And did you buy four

You can

of these, Steven?

Listen, you can get a Mac Studio.

One configuration has now been ~ is now
available that wasn't before,

which is the 512 gigabytes of unified
memory on the new,

on the M5 Max or M5 Ultra Max Studio.

If you want to upgrade from the 96
gigabytes of memory that it comes with

to the 512 gigabytes, it is a $15,500
upcharge.

And then if you want to just go all out.

and get the 16 terabyte SSD, no trade-in.

It is a cool 30 grand,

$30,000 computer, Jason.

I mean that's a pretty amazing computer
though,

let's be honest.

I'm not mad about it. Like if I like Daisy
Chain four of those and

you get two terabytes of unified memory to
run whatever model on device.

But even just one of them, like I don't
have thirty thousand

yeah.

dollars for this. But I actually am really
glad that Apple is making that computer.

They should have just made that
configuration and called it Mac Pro.

That and that is what it is. Like this

Yeah.

is this is the Mac Pro of today.

This is the most pro thing they've ever
made.

The most like excessively pro thing that
they've ever made.

yeah. Yes,

Right.

yes.

And I think the only thing that's a
drawback to it is y all expansion

is via Thunderbolt. But guess what?

Thunderbolt's pretty fast. It's more

Real fast.

than fast enough for almost anything you
might want to use.

That's right.

That's right. I'm so glad this computer
exists.

I am not I will never buy this because
it's crazy.

I would review it. If you send me one,

Hundred percent.

I'll I don't

I unfortunately don't do anything worthy
of reviewing it,

but I have been doing an awful lot of
local L L stuff,

Yeah, exactly. That's what I'm saying.

including local agent stuff that this
would be perfect for.

That's what

I'm saying. That Llama local model in LM
Studio,

whatever that new one that Turnus and Zuck
were tweeting about back and forth,

I'll run it.

No, you need actu

you need at least two of these for that.

Send two Apple. I'm just saying.

I will do it. I'll do it. I'll run LM
Studio.

I will vibe code another dozen apps.

We look.

Can you can you just

imagine? Wouldn't you really want to just
pull the FedEx guy aside and be like,

Do you know what's in that box?

Do you have any idea? What this thing came
straight from Buckingham Palace.

This box I this box.

They're

for the crown jewels are in this box.

This box cost more than my college
tuition.

All four years. I

Cost more than that truck you're driving
there,

buddy.

for sure. Can I say of vibe coding apps?

I'm now up to twelve. I'm I'm up to twelve
apps now.

I I appreciate

that because I'm pretty sure that when I
mentioned you in your apps I said about

a dozen. So I'm glad you've reached that
level.

Is now

up to a dozen. I'll link my page down in
the show notes,

but 12 apps, many of them are in the app
store.

A couple n brand new ones like Lookout and
Shortcuts menu is now in the app store.

Anyway, just

I'm so far behind.

listen, this is why here's what you do.

And we're gonna get to this in personal
tech,

what Claude has done for me. Yeah,

Sponsored by Beard Fm dot app.

right,

exactly. ~ you can go to the updates page
where I just list all

the updates across all the apps,

and there's even an RSS feed that you can
subscribe to and just get

all the updates via RSS. So look at that.

Yeah, one okay, Steven. Put that back up
for a second.

~ yeah, okay, I'll sorry. Okay,

This is not a criticism. The way

sure.

you can tell and Steven has no problem
admitting that this is true.

The way you can tell that this is vibe
coded is the fact that there's a

su there's a little ~ eyebrow header above
latest updates that says every app.

Literally that's the way you know that
Claude did this.

yeah yeah yeah. you I mean if you go

to my homepage, every rounded rec call out
box for every app where it

has like the slightly tinted background
and the very thin outline,

that's all clawed. But like yeah.

Yeah, sure. I know, but that every app

thing is a hundred percent the way you
know that that thing was vibe coded.

Yeah.

Well, and that's why my literal homepage
says vibe coded apps.

The in the biggest

Yep, absolutely.

text possible. One last thing I wanted to
mention about the the MacBook Pro.

You mentioned in our pre-show this
interview with Wired,

which I will link in Apple News because we
have News Plus,

you can actually read the whole interview.

I'll also link the nine to five Mac
article in the show notes if you want

to read some poll quotes. But Wired must
have got early access because they talked

to Joswiak, Turnus, and Suruji about the
new touchscreen MacBook Pro.

And there was one point

I thought it really interesting.

This was ~ Jaws, Greg Jaws React.

This is a quote attributed to him.

Most pros own an iPad, and almost every
pro owns an iPhone.

So this is something that they're natural
with.

Talking about touch on the new MacBook
Pro.

And there's a quote: There's a generation
of young creators and young people using

our MacBook Pros that expect to touch.

And I do think, I think about my own kids,

who my oldest just got his first MacBook
Pro earlier this year.

His entire life has been touchscreen
devices.

iPad, iPhone. And the other day I was
thinking about,

you know, what devices are around this
house?

What do I want to trade in? And my M4 iPad
Pro I had handed down to

him to use for whatever. And he uses Logic
Pro on that iPad.

And he makes beats and he makes ~ you know
tracks and all of that.

And

I asked him the other day because he's had
it for about a year and now

he has a MacBook Pro. I said, Do you still
use the iPad Pro?

Like, do even need that anymore?

And he said, Yeah, I use Logic Pro on it
because I like it better on the iPad Pro.

Like it does, it's different than it is on
the Mac.

And I think that quote, again,

talking about the glowing Apple logo,

seeing that quote from Jaws, I think Apple
is paying more attention

to its user base, trying to understand its
user base.

And I do think that.

word about the next generation of creators
and young professionals,

they have grown up with iPad as the main
computing device for many years.

And there's kids today for like their main
computing device or device they

use all the time is an iPad. And so it
does make a lot of sense that when those
kids

are ready to do creator type work or
whatever,

that the device they use has a touch
screen like they have used for

the their entire lives.

And so I think yes, not only is it gonna
do cool things and music apps and,

you know, touch screen Macs the first
time,

but I think it's it is also forward
looking to say like this is what

the next generation of creators are going
to use and we wanna make

the device that they they want that they
want to use.

So

Yeah.

Does it seem weird though? Like it does
feel a little bit uncharacteristic

of Apple that there are now s kind of a
lot of decisions you have to make

if you're gonna buy a MacBook Pro because
you're like,

do you just buy the six, right?

Which is like a higher number and it's

Yeah. Right.

but it's basically a MacBook Air but with
more ports and better battery

and a nicer screen. Right?

Yeah.

And then you have the five Pro and the
five Max old version.

Yeah, yeah.

And then you have the M5 Max and M5 Pro
Pro LEDX DR with touch version for

Yeah.

$400 more, but you can't actually just
spec up a M5

Max Max normal version. You can't just
click give me the better display.

It's a whole separate category of thing.

Right. It's a skew, yeah.

And

it's it does feel a little bit like do you
think okay?

My question is, do you think this is the
way that they intended it to be?

Or do you think they're like,

the touch isn't ready. Let's release a a
rev to the same version before.

Get those out the door with the M5,

the M5 Pro, the five Max, and then we'll
do the other ones later.

And it will feel weird because we will
also update the base one with an M6.

And then we will have so it's like there's
like this weird like you know

how in school you used to do those
sentence diagram things where you're just
like

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

you have the six and then you have like
the Pro LED XDR with touch and then

Right, right, right.

you have the normal.

It's like

Because really you have these two that
seem like they sit below the six,

but they're not. They're super better.

Like the five Pro and the five Max still
smoke the six.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

But then you I don't know, like this feels
kind of strange.

I think it is a transitionary period.

I think with the phone, Apple is saying,

let's see what phones people resonate
with.

Do people want an iPhone Air? Do they want
the thinnest and lightest phone

no matter what? Do they want a folding
phone?

Do they want a pro big phone? I think like
they're experimenting there.

With the computers, do you want a $30,000
Mac Studio?

Do you want a touchscreen Mac?

Do you want a MacBook Neo that's $600?

Like, what do you want?

And I think it is a a bit of a scatter
shot to see like what sticks,

what do people want. But also with the
MacBook Pro specifically,

I think three to four years from now,

every MacBook Pro will have a dynamic
island.

I think every MacBook Pro will probably
have the tandem OLED.

Maybe not the base model. We'll see.

You know, the base model MacBook Pro is
always kind like a weird area where it's

it's a pro, but it's like

More MacBook Air than Pro. It's like a
MacBook Air with more ports kind of thing.

Like

I mean actually

it's like you shoved a MacBook Air inside
the chassis of a MacBook Pro.

Yeah,

exactly, exactly. But I think the all the
Pro and Macs,

MacBook Pros, they'll all have a Dynamic
Island,

they'll all have a tandem OLED.

Maybe the touch screen will be an add-on
then.

Like maybe there'll be a four hundred
dollar do you want touch or not?

I think it will look more streamlined a
few years from now.

And this is like the first foray.

Like, let's see. Do people care?

Do people want this? And so I think it is
a bit

confusing now. I think to the people like
you're saying,

six is higher than five. Shouldn't I buy
that?

I think if that's if s that's how
someone's thinking,

that is probably a customer that should
just get the six.

Because if they don't know ~ even why the
pro and Max five Pro and Max exist,

I think they're probably a user that would
just do fine with the six.

Like just do that. So yeah, I think it's a
bit confusing,

but I think it's also like they're seeing
what works right now.

And we're just gonna put it all out there,

see what happens. People are gonna buy
stuff.

People are gonna buy no stuff no matter
what,

like all this new stuff. And so it's just
experimentation.

Yeah. Well,

and I'm not necessarily like nostalgic for
the era when there was a grid

of four products. Like I get that we're
way,

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

way, way past that.

But your I think your answer is yes.

This is very uncharacteristically Apple in
the way that we think about what Apple

has always been. Because Apple has
typically said,

here's the products. This is what we make.

This is what we think our users want.

And it does feel a little bit now like

They're like, What we think people want
these things?

And I think it started with the Vision
Pro.

Like, I don't

Mm.

know, we think people seem to like
headsets.

What if we made the most expensive one
ever made and put it on it's like

so heavy you can only wear it for forty
minutes at a time?

Didn't really work. So I'm hoping that
these products work out better.

And I will say last thing, and then and
then we'll get to the iPhone Duo.

You know, if you go to the Apple Store
page,

they are still trying to simplify it's
like you we got MacBook Neo,

Air, Pro. Good, better,

best. Right? Like we still have the three
tiers.

And when you go to MacBook Pro,

you got two options. Do you want a touch
screen or do you want the regular?

And now you can keep diving down because
if I click learn more on the

non-touch MacBook Pro, then you the M6,

five Pro, five Max, and you have more
decisions to make.

But I think they are trying to see,

like, are you a touch? You want the touch?

Or no? And we'll see. We'll see we'll see
how it goes in the next couple of years.

Yeah. I mean,

But

you said it. She has to touch everything,

right? Lost World, by the way.

You you never ask. You need to put in a
rundown Ask Jason movie quote.

Thank you. Thank you for the comment I
know you said that I know.

You that was correct. That was the last
regardress.

I was looking at my piece of

paper where I had written down the words
the Lost World and I couldn't remember

why I wrote that down. And then I'm like,

yeah, because he asked me and he never
asked me.

I need to put in the rundown. this this is
the second week I say I'm gonna

do it and then I haven't done it.

So we'll see. I'll try to do it for next
week.

I we have to talk about iPhone Duo.

I've been using it for a full week.

I have so many thoughts about it.

But before we do, I want to thank our
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And our friends at Origin. Still one of
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You gotta go just to scroll your mouse
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I wonder how this would be on the
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honestly. I feel like that might be kind
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Okay. Have you spent any time with an
iPhone duo just by chance?

Zero time, Jason.

Zero time. Vicariously

I watched like your four days in a row or
whatever the heck you did.

I watched, I think, all of all of them.

W

I will link my playlist.

one of them was a little bit maybe like
the

What?

one the honeymoon's over. I was like,

hold on. What's he gonna say? I thought
you sent it back based on that headline.

Listen, I A B test the titles on all these
videos and so

Yeah, of course

that's not title that wins. 'Cause it's
the one that

Well

sounds the most like I'm gonna chuck this
thing in the ocean.

Well, and I meant it to say, listen,

there are bugs, there are weird things in
the UI.

Like those things just happen.

They c they're they come up. Like the the
software,

even Apple's own apps, are still not one
hundred percent on the iPhone Duo.

So I will link my playlist. I did five
videos,

kind of just my day-to-day experience with
the iPhone Duo.

I'm gonna have a full review video coming
out this weekend where I'll give kind

of my final thoughts and full recap.

Before I get into to my thoughts,

I do wanna mention there has been a lot of

Cracked screens on social media.

And this has been on Reddit. There's been
lots of posts about this,

but there's this like some lines will
appear cracking,

you know, a crack in the screen.

Apple has acknowledged that this is an
issue with a number of duos.

They say a small number, that th they will
replace the iPhone duo,

contact Apple Care. Even if you didn't
have Apple Care,

of course, they will replace the iPhone
Duo.

So first gen device, yes, there's a
there's a

You know, hardware shoe in a small batch,

so those are getting fixed. Also,

apps just not optimized.

That has been the story. You heard that in
all the reviews.

I actually built an entire web page again
using Claude to keep track

of apps that are updating for iPhone Duo.

There's now over 800 apps that are iPhone
Duo ready.

And so I'll put that link down in the show
notes too.

I have apps that I recommend that I've
been using on Duo and apps that developers

have been sending to me just on social
media.

And you can browse by category,

you can browse by date added. ~ Marco
Arment just released a new app yesterday

~ for the iPhone Duo and the iPad.

It's actually really cool. It's called
Finalist,

I think. I forget what exactly it's
called.

Fine liner maybe?

Fine

liner. I'm sorry, that's the word.

Fine liner. but it's here on the webpage.

You can just search for there it is,

Fine Liner. And so you can go here,

check out all the duo optimized apps.

I will save.

I'm

still developing my final thoughts,

like to be honest. and so that's why I'll,

you know, put those in the review for this
weekend.

Because here's the here's the deal.

If you go with an iPhone Duo, whatever
iPhone you go with this year,

like it's your iPhone. It's the device you
have to use every day.

And there's novelties to a new device,

there's cool things about the iPhone Duo.

It is not going to be for everyone.

Like this is a very different device.

If you are someone who likes weird quirks
because the technology is new

and you get to experience something
different,

the iPhone Duo has been super fun.

I've really enjoyed it. There's been a lot
of times where it's like,

~ the the best analogy I could think of is
like using the iPhone Duo

as your main device is like living in a
world made for a different phone.

Because you are living in a world made for
the iPhone seventeen,

eighteen pros and maxes. Like

The entire internet is made for those
phones.

And using the iPhone Duo today is trying
to fit a square

peg in an iPhone 18-shaped hole.

You know what mean? And a lot of the
internet is is like that.

Like scrolling reels and TikToks,

which is something a lot of people do.

Like it's a weird experience on the iPhone
Duo.

Because if you do it on the outer screen,

it's like very small.

You know, it has to crop to the squarish
screen.

And so watching reels is not as fun on the
duo front screen as it

is on iPhone eighteen pro. Can you all

Why why

why is it not as fun? Like who cares if it
just crops it so it's

the same aspect ratio? Okay.

Way smaller. It's just

way smaller. It's way smaller.

And because Instagram, you know,

I think this goes to the app optimization.

Like they're probably still figuring out
what to do with all the controls.

But because the Instagram UI is here in
the sidebar,

you have all the like, share, and comment
icons on the reel itself,

plus the caption, plus, you know,

the reels and friends on the top.

So like it's just small. Like it's much
smaller than even looking on like

a regular 18 Pro or 17.

And yeah, you can open the duo and you can
watch reels that way.

And then you get, you know, a letter-boxed
experience with,

yeah, I it's bigger, sure. But like if you
were to look at a reel

on both the iPhone Duo and the iPhone 18
Pro Max,

we'll say, ~ here's a a re you know,

side by side, if you actually look at the
amount of content you will see.

You're holding a much bigger device with
an open iPhone duo and not seeing

a ton more content. And the content itself
is like cropped funny.

Like on the 18 Pro Max, you can see the
reel goes all the way,

it's edge to edge, top and bottom.

Like you can see the reel goes all the way
below the Instagram control,

like tabs, and goes all the way up into
the dynamic island area.

Whereas on the iPhone Duo, it stops right
above the controls.

And it goes to the top edge, but it's not
the same aspect ratio.

Like it's a different. But the

Well, that's the thing. The phone isn't
the same aspect ratio.

video is not. Even though the video is
letterboxed,

the video itself is not the same aspect
ratio.

Like you're getting a cropped video.

So that is what I mean when I say like
you're living in a world where every piece

of vertical content was made for a
different iPhone.

Yeah.

Now, long form content, pretty cool.

Like I've enjoyed.

Playing a full YouTube video, like a long
form YouTube video,

opening up the iPhone Duo and watching it
what widescreen.

Again, if you compare it to like an 18 Pro
Max,

it's not a huge difference in the amount
of video you are seeing,

depending on the aspect ratio of the
video.

But the iPhone Duo, strangely,

feels lighter when you're holding it open
than the 18 Pro Max does.

And it's just a trick of the mind because
I think the total weight of

the duo is actually more than even an 18
Pro Max.

But for some reason, holding the duo open,

it feels actually lighter. When you close
it,

it's the weirdest thing. It feels heavier
closed,

just because the weight distribution,

I think, and and you know, center of
gravity.

So there's a lot of parts of the duo that
feels again like you're a square

peg in a round hole in a in a lot of parts
of the internet.

And then even like browsing safari.

You know, if I go to a website,

like my beardfm.app website, like you see,

like it's it's small on the outer screen.

Like it's not a super great experience,

but it's fine. It's fine. And yes,

you can open the iPhone duo and you can
see a lot more of the website.

And you know, that's cool. If you hear
lightsaber sounds,

it's because my Star Wars lightsaber from
Disney World is just turning

on and off randomly in the corner,

and I don't know how to stop it.

So just throwing that out there.

So it is

Living in a world made for a different
iPhone.

All that to say, it is super fun,

super fun to use. And there's been many
times in my day-to-day life,

and I would be curious, like this is why
hopefully you get to try your hand

at a duo just for a little bit.

Because, like you, I go to a lot of events
with the kids.

It might be a rehearsal, it might be a
game,

it might be I'm sitting in the car for a
while doing something,

you know, and waiting for them doing a
thing.

And

Previously,

I would bring my iPad Pro with magic
keyboard.

I love it. It's got built-in cellular.

Awkward to use in a car, especially if
you're in the driver's seat

and you the steering wheel, like how it
navigate.

You have the thirteen inch? Yeah.

I have the 13 inch, yeah.

and I did it before with my 11 inch M4,

because ~ I had the smaller one then,

and it's better with the smaller one,

especially in the car or whatever.

But man, I for the last week have been
using iPhone Duo.

I will open it up in the car and it feels
great to use.

And I can use the Apple Pencil with it.

And I will often remote into my Mac Studio
for my iPhone Duo when it's open,

and that's a great experience.

Or, like I said, watching videos on the
iPhone Duo or split screening Claude

and social media. So as people send me
their apps optimized for iPhone Duo,

I can copy a link on this side and paste
it over here for Claude and

let Claude work on one side and and not
the other.

And so it is super fun. And I think for
someone like me with very specific

use cases.

Like I edited Primary Tech Daily on the
iPhone Duo this last week with

the Apple Pencil. That's super fun.

Is it better than doing it on the iPad
Pro?

Not better. But the fact that it the
iPhone in my pocket and I can open

it and have a mini iPad. And that's why
I've alluded to it before.

Like, Apple is making the decision so hard
because we now have the best iPad mini

ever with an OLED display. And I'm like,

well.

Man, do would it be better to carry an 18
Pro and an iPad mini with the ONET?

Like, do I want to do that? Do I want just
one device,

the iPhone Duo, to do it all? So anyway,

I last thing I'll say, and then I don't
know if you have questions or comments,

but ~ I missed the telephoto. I did the
thing where ~ and I put this in

one of my videos, again, I'll link the
playlist.

You can create a smart album.

In photos on your Mac specifically.

You have to do it on your Mac.

You can't create a smart album like on
your iPhone or iPad.

And you can put in a bunch of criteria for
~ photos taken with

a certain camera, namely your iPhone 17
Pro or 16 Pro,

whatever. And you can choose lenses like
filter by lenses,

and it will create an album and show you
all the photos you took with

the telephoto lens specifically.

And so in the last year with my 17 Pro
Max,

I've taken 372 photos and 119 videos,

specifically with the telephoto lens.

And looking at these, it's like I have to
think,

what would it have been like without the
telephoto lens?

Like I went to the live VergeCast
recording at CES earlier this year.

Like I took this photo with a telephoto
lens.

I could have taken that photo with the
regular lens.

It just wouldn't look as good.

~ like with the iPhone Duo.

at all my kids' dance recitals.

This was the Nutcracker last December.

And I was pretty far back in the audience.

~ but I could go to that telephoto lens
and get a decent picture.

Like I will not be able to get that
picture with the iPhone Duo this year.

And I know Apple made the handoff feature.

I know you can double fist iPhones if you
really wanted to.

ATT doesn't have the handoff feature
unfortunately.

But I'm not the kind of person that wants
to carry two phones or even think about

two phones. Like I don't even like the
cognitive load of what phone am

I going to take today.

I'm a one phone guy. I just want to know
this is my phone and this is the

one I take everywhere. And so I have to
make the decision,

and this is what I will save for my
review,

because I honestly don't know.

Is the telephoto camera worth it?

And is living in a world not yet
optimized,

but slowly being optimized for iPhone Duo?

Is it worth living in that interim period?

The optimized thing is less of a bother to
me.

The fact that reels are a little weird on
iPhone,

I think is actually good.

'Cause I watch less. Like I'm less
inclined to scroll them on the iPhone

duo and that's probably a good thing.

And I'm more inclined to like do some
work.

So maybe that's better. But it is ~ you
know,

you would be in the interim period right
now.

So anyway, I'll stop talking. Tal

No, you're good.

talk to you.

I just think I can't decide if people
using

the iPhone Duo enjoy it because it's
different or enjoy

it because it's good. And I th in part of
th again

I d I did not I did ask for a review unit
and literally radio silence.

Didn't even get a no. Like, okay,

you'll send me a eight thousand dollar
laptop so I can run local models,

but you won't send me an iPhone Duo.

I know, it's weird. It's weird.

But whatever, the availability of them is
very diffic is very limited.

Is limited, yeah.

So whatever.

I I'm not mad about it. Although
apparently if you break the screen

you can just walk into an Apple store or
they'll hand you a new one.

I'm just saying. Okay.

Not immediately. You do have to wait.

The r the reports have been that it takes
a while,

so anyway, but yeah.

But

I

So I I wanna I I'm just saying I haven't
actually had one in my hands.

I should go to our local Apple store and
just touch

Go play with

in that kind of stuff, whatever.

But I think they got the form factor
wrong.

Because the the biggest complaint I've
heard from people is essentially what
Gruber

said, which is that when it's closed,

it's the worst iPhone they've ever made.

And I do feel like that's important.

You ki because if it was only going to be
good when you open it,

Then that's just an iPad mini.

Like, and they just released the new one

Right, right.

of those and it's f by all accounts,

like, sweet. It it answered all the things
we cared about except for the promotion.

It's like they they put the OLED on it,

it's whatever. And so I d but I can't
decide if people are enjoying it.

I'll go back to the same thing and you can
tell me what you think.

Because it's different or because it's
good.

And it seems like it's more of the former
right now,

and maybe eventually it will be the
latter,

but that it's it's not yet.

Honestly, I agree. And I think if you are
like us and have been

an iPhone user for years and years,

I've been using an iPhone since the iPhone
4.

The iPhone experience, it's changed a
little bit.

You know, the iPhone 10, genuinely new,

you know, no home button, notch,

all of that. But since then, like,

yes, we've had the dynamic island,

we've had some slight changes.

This is the most

Different an iPhone experience has ever
been.

And honestly, that in itself is
interesting and fun.

Like the fact that this feels like a
different kind of iPhone

is maybe the most attractive part of it.

And so to your point, not like if my
choice was to use this outer display

or an iPhone 18 Pro, no question.

I would not want to use the outer display
as my phone.

Like that is not a good experience.

I don't think it's horrible. Like in some
instances I actually like it.

Like when I was on a field trip and taking
pictures,

I actually like the small square form
factor for picture taking.

One, it feels more camera like,

but I also felt more discreet.

Like holding up the camera to like do
this,

as opposed to my 18 Pro Max, which feels
like I'm holding up a surfboard.

And it's

And then ungainly sometimes, like
single-handedly.

Like holding my phone like this and like
most of the phone sticking out,

it feels less secure than my iPhone duo,

just like I'm basically have the entire
phone in my hand almost.

So sometimes I liked the form factor of
the outer screen,

but it is the novelty of being able to
open it and have a little iPad.

Sometimes just watching the video,

it's like, this is nice. Or

I do find I do remote into my Mac a lot
for whatever reason.

And doing that even on the 18 Pro Max
because of the aspect ratio of the screen,

even if I rotate it to landscape,

like it wasn't as good of an experience as
doing it with my iPhone Duo open.

So like that remote control of a Mac,

iPhone Duo wins when it's open.

And that's something I do. And again,

that is a very specific use case.

There might be IT professionals out there
who would be like,

I'm in.

I that's my job. I remote into computers
all day every day.

Yeah.

Like

I that's I need that immediately.

And so if that is your specific use case,

like, my goodness, the iPhone Duo might be
the perfect phone for you.

I also like the iPhone Duo in my pocket as
opposed to the eighteen Pro Max.

And honestly, if there was one choice that
I would make now that using

the iPhone Duo, if I went back to the Pro
phones,

I would sell my Pro Max and go with a Pro,

which is what you do anyways. Because man,

a smaller Pro phone

But with all the features and telephoto,

man, that's a compelling case right now.

~ now that I've used this for a week.

But I do think the novelty is what's
exciting.

But there are a few genuine use cases that
again are very specific to individuals.

Like I might like me and Jason Snell are
the only people I know that have edited

podcasts in Ferrite with the Apple Pencil.

You do it too.

Yeah, I do it.

You do it too. But I don't know,

like I

I love the fact that I can do it on this
phone in my car.

Like that is so cool. Is it better?

I mean, it's not better. And when I edit
the full episode for this today's episode,

I'm gonna do it with my iPad Pro because I
need universal control to drag

my chapter artwork from my Mac to Ferrite
on my iPad,

and there's no universal control for the
iPhone Duo.

And so there's still like it's fun,

it's novel.

And I don't and I still truly am
undecided.

Like I'm not going to dual phone it.

Am I going to go duo or pro? I'm still not
sure.

So you tune into my review because I
really don't know.

But yeah. I so all that to say I think I
agree.

Like the fun and being different is
actually one of the biggest factors for
it.

Yeah, and I but I do think, what do you
think about the form factor itself?

Because like I've used both Samsung and
Pixel Folds,

and I do think that that form factor is
better.

I understand why Apple did it and they
seem very,

very proud of the fact that it's the same
aspect ratio,

open and closed, although it's that's only
true I mean it's technically true,

but it's only effective if you rotate it,

right? Like you open it and

Yeah.

it's just still one to four point one one
to one point four or whatever,

but it's you get to rotate it first.

But I just think that it I don't know,

it it it seems like that was not maybe not
the right call.

Again, b because it's a world made for a
different aspect ratio phone,

I think today, yeah, it feels like the
wrong call.

especially when what a majority of things
people do with their phone

is probably scrolling reels and TikTok and
social media feeds.

And like text messaging, not a great
experience on the outer display,

because once you bring up that keyboard,

you see a very t very limited number of
messages.

Like is then if you have a big message,

like you're gonna be scrolling a lot on
that.

top part of the outer display.

But, and this would be true of the i 18
Pro rather than the Max,

but like one handed typing for me is
easier on this.

And it'll probably be even easier on the
Pro.

But coming from the Pro Max, like I like
that part of it.

And yeah, it's n it's novel, you know,

and it's I don't know. I like the shiny
titanium slides.

Like that's a superficial thing.

But I like how this phone looks.

Like it looks like a really nice iPhone.

Like a really nice piece of hardware.

And the fact that I can prop it up when I
go eat lunch out on the patio

and I don't bring ~ something to you know
prop my phone up on,

I can do the little laptop thing and I
could have the video playing and

it can be its own thing. Built-in
speakers,

by the way, very good because it actually
has like a like d good stereo speakers,

and when you have it open, like it's
oriented properly,

like good speakers. But

I I will and I will say this in my review,

like this is not for everyone.

I think there'll be a lot of people whom
if they tried if they buy a

duo coming from their sixteen or their
fifteen,

like they're gonna be like, what in the
world?

Nothing looks right. Like I totally get
that reaction because again,

the entire internet is made for the
vertical iPhone form factor.

But I mean, people are having fun with it.

I mean, I've been making a bunch of
shortcuts,

silly ones, like when you open the iPhone
duo,

it can make a sound.

And people love that stuff. Even people
that don't have iPhone Duo,

they're like, that's pretty fun.

Maybe I want to do it for that.

And I think that the fact that it could be
a fun device,

you know, maybe that that alone is it.

Let me actually this is a a shortcut I
made.

If you want to have your iPhone duo,

play a sound. You can do a lightsaber
sound when you open or close it.

I have the transformer sound, like it's
fun.

It's fun. But yeah, it's it's not gonna be
for everyone.

And my word, I should and now I need to
shut that automation off.

But it has been fun in the last week.

my word. I don't ~ I'm still undecided.

So I have a day left to decide when I make
my final review,

like what I'm actually sticking with.

And we'll see. I I think the aspect ratio
and the different apps

not being optimized, that stuff doesn't
bother me.

The telephoto is the wo is the big choice
that I have to make.

Do I not care?

am I willing to give up a telephoto camera
for the next year?

~ or not? And that that I think is,

you know, do the smart album trick that I
talk about in my video and just

see like what is the content I would have
missed if I if I didn't have it.

So anyway, that's the iPhone Duo.

Hopefully you go you should go play with
one.

Just like just just pull up a chair in the
Apple store,

sit literally sit down at the table,

just play with the iPhone duo for like two
hours and just see.

So

I'd

be like, listen, you know I just
interviewed Ron Johnson.

He said it was fine.

You could say that. David Sparks.

He said he went to his Apple store for two
hours.

David was at this apple store for two
hours playing with one.

So if you go in the middle of the day,

like when it's not busy, I think you could
do it.

I'll I'm gonna I visited the Apple store
yesterday.

I'm gonna about my experience later.

All right.

But anyway, all right, that's the iPhone
duo.

I'll put I'll be posting my review this
weekend.

~ hope you watch it. Lightning round.

Anthropic has officially filed their S1 to
go public,

their IPO. The prospectus.

You

know, when a company files to go public,

to be publicly traded, there's a lot of
stuff,

like a lot of information that they
release,

like who makes money in the company and
like how are profits split and

all that kind of stuff. But there's also
just crazy things in the prospectus.

I will just this is a poll quote from the
S1 that they filed to go public,

and I will link the government PDF if you
want to go read it.

But it says, quote, concerns have been
raised both within our organization.

And by other researchers, regulators,

policymakers, and industry participants,

that sufficiently advanced AI systems
could,

if not, developed, deployed, and operated
with appropriate safeguards,

oversight, and security measures,

pose catastrophic or existential risks to
humanity,

particularly if such systems are misused,

replicated, weaponized, or allowed to
operate with a high degree of autonomy.

So basically, we might

not be profitable if humanity is
destroyed.

Just throwing it out there. You wrote an
article.

I mean, that's true. Well, unless the

Go ahead.

unless the robots just continue on
afterwards,

and we have no idea how profitable it will
be,

right? Yeah.

Maybe even more so. Maybe even more.

I mean, get rid of the humans and there's
just money for everyone.

Money for everybody. Who needs money?

Anyway. Yeah,

Yeah.

I think the the most striking thing was so
Anthropic was started by Dario,

Amadei, and his sister, and five other
people.

There's seven of them. And it's super
interesting because you have companies
like

Facebook, Meta, whatever, where Mark
Zuckerberg has effectively total control
over

the voting, not total control.

He has enough he has a majority control
over the voting shares of the company,

so he can he can't be fired. He can just
do what he wants.

Right.

If the board is like, dude, we're firing
you,

he can be like, let's take a vote and they
all lose,

right? And it doesn't matter.

They all it is automatically.

So he effectively has control.

Anthropic is also wanting the they're
creating a F class share for the founders,

F for founders.

I think that's what the F means.

And they would the seven of them together
would have no less than fifty point

one percent control of the voting shares
of the company.

So that they would still have control and
then they would be and they're forming

the company as a public benefit company,

which means that they are going to have a
there's gonna

be this trust b board that will also be a
part of like appointing

a certain number of the board of
directors.

So to guard the company's mission,

but then the founders get to pick the rest
of them.

The whole thing is like anthropic is gonna
be the largest IPO ever.

If you buy shares, this is not stock
advice.

Neither Steven nor I know anything about
stocks.

Like, whatever. I own one share of Apple.

And it's just because I have the paper
certificate,

not

Yeah, yeah.

because I buy and I'm just literally never
gonna sell it.

So you don't have to worry about me being
biased because I just it sits in a safe.

That's the only reason I have one share of
Apple.

Yes.

But I just feel like they

This is not necessarily going to be a good
deal for investors if

the company starts making decisions about
safety and whatever that

are like just imagine the conflict between
we should productize this

and market it and they're like,

No, because it could destroy humanity and
then they're like,

No, we should do it because you have an
obligation to be make us money.

You're putting money

Rise.

into this company with essentially no
control over the outcome.

And I just that's just weird. And I don't
understand why investors continue

to do this, Steven.

Well they keep investing in companies that
might end us.

No, well, there's that.

This seems to be the first one though that
you can invest in that might end us.

No, investing in companies where they're
like,

yes, founders, it's cool. You can have
total control.

We think it's a

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

good idea for people who have a different
set of incentives than these stockholders

to have effective control over the
direction of a company.

I don't think any company should exist
that the board of directors can't fire

the CEO.

Hmm, right.

I just don't th I just

don't think that that's a terrible idea.

It's we've

Right.

seen it over and over again. It's just a
terrible idea.

And I

And I guess the

only AI company set up like that is Google
right now,

maybe?

Well, Google's founders have like an
outsized control.

They have more voting power than they have
economic shares,

but I don't believe they have total
control.

I don't I mean, I don't believe they have
majority control,

I should say.

Right. Whereas like OpenAI, Anthropic and
Meta,

they do.

Well, I

mean open AI's open AI's private.

Right. So like they're not a

Right, right, right,

public company and so who the heck even
knows what's happening over there?

Because Sam Altman apparently has no
shares of open AI,

but yet he got fired one day and then they
rehired him the next day.

So I feel like he has control.

Right. I think he does. I think he does.

I don't know. Like it just seems like he's
in charge over there and more

Yes. Yes.

in charge than ever. And Meta definitely

Mark Zuckerberg like gets up in the
morning and he's like,

Whoop he's like, What shall we do today?

What am I gonna tell Adam Lusseri to
change about Instagram today?

W which knob

am I going to turn today?

Yes.

The engagement knob, the put muse
somewhere else knob,

No, I just

the upload Jason's DMs knob

I just imagine now it's like we're getting
up in his bedroom and there's

two big knobs on the wall. One is AI slop
and one is muse,

like just how much muse? Over eagerness.

Over eagerness.

And he just decides like am I gonna turn
it this way or that way every

I

morning?

I actually almost wrote an arc article
about the two knobs.

Maybe I should. There's engagement and
over eagerness.

Pretty good. Yeah. Yeah,

yeah. Just I think so. Just decides to
crank it.

Yeah. So it'll well, this'll be
interesting.

I mean, this is I don't know if
unprecedented is the word.

I this is like

It's definitely not unprecedented because
well,

the size of the thing is unprecedented.

Right.

The structure is unprecedented because
we've never had one of these companies,

peer play companies, come to the market,

which is this big. It is not unprecedented
for founders to be like,

Yeah, you can you can buy shares in my
company and give me money to spend however

I want, but you can't tell me what to do.

Sure. Right, right.

And it's a good

gig if you can get it. I just don't think
we should be doing it.

Right. I will also link I don't know if
you have you s been listening

to like the Kevin Roos ~ podcast that he's
been on and stuff.

He was on Decoder and The Verge.

I gotta read his book.

You gotta read his book. I will also link
~ the new podcast that he's doing with

Casey Newton, Machine Gods. And I started
listening to this.

They were previously at the New York Times
and they've left and

now they started this new podcast,

Machine Gods, in partnership with NPR,

which is interesting. but you can listen
to that if you wanna like

really get in deep on the AI, what's
happening,

this anthropic IPO. Like you just want to
hear the all the AI news,

like this is probably a good show to s
follow.

And I started following it and we'll be
listening.

It is some of it is very like deep in the
weeds about the AI stuff.

But if you really want to learn about that
and hear about it.

And the book that Kevin Roos wrote was
what is the name of the book?

I bought it on Apple Books.

I don't know, but I think that the he told
Ne Lai that like one of the

I could

headline ideas was like F that guy or
something like that.

He could have made the title of the book F
that guy.

The book is called The AGI Chronicles,

and I started listening

Yes.

to the audiobook by Kevin Roos.

And I'm gonna link that in top five tech
tomorrow.

But if you really want to get into all of
it,

those podcasts are out there. They exist,

if you wanna if you wanna do that.

Fall down that rabbit hole. All right,

this is supposed to be lightning round,

my bad. This is ~ Lightning Round Part 2,

part dose. The Microsoft is offering
buyouts to over 60,000 employees,

and

You it's either gonna be layoffs or get
bought out,

I think, is probably the word.

But they also had like great earnings.

~ profitability and revenue was up for
Microsoft.

So interesting times. I assume they're
just trying to cut costs.

AI. Is AI a part you think A AI a part of
it?

Like, sure. Yeah.

It's hard to say. I mean,

it might it's Microsoft, man, it's a big
company.

I I like sat down to I should write about
this and I'm like this is

the most boring set of layoffs I've ever
even heard of 'cause I don't even know
like

what I don't even fully get what's
happening here.

It's har yeah, it's hard to ascertain.

~ feel bad, you know, all the people that
would be getting layoffs

or taking buyouts, you know, sorry for for
that.

It's also seems to be a trend,

just as the growing AI is AI efficacy of
all these businesses,

it's like what positions can be cut and so
yeah.

So that's Microsoft. And lastly,

Amazon, while Apple is doing their wild
touchscreen MacBook event,

they threw out some new shows,

Echo Shows. I don't know, you wrote an
article,

I'm gonna put your article in the show
notes.

Can you tell me about the shows?

Well, I didn't

'Cause I

I didn't write an article yet about this,

about Amazon stuff. I I will probably
write an article,

but they definitely like g Amazon has
released almost as many well actually

way more things this fall than even Apple
has released this fall.

They do the new Kindles and ~ yeah.

Yes, they did a whole

event for that and then and it seems like
I can't quite tell,

you tell me. It seems like they had an
event.

didn't tell anyone and you weren't allowed
to report at the event and then there

was an abar an embargo on the event
because everybody's stuff dropped

at the same time, but I didn't feel like
reading this.

It happened the same day that all the
stuff came out.

Am I crazy?

It was weird. I the one again,

I just saw like the The Verge cover it and
then I saw Quinn Nelson,

big YouTuber, love his stuff. He had

Snazzy Labs.

Snazzy Labs. He had like a partnership
reel with the Amazon stuff and

he was just talking about all the Amazon
stuff.

And I'm like, this is the most bizarre
like I don't know if Amazon was like,

We want to pay a few influencers a ton of
money to post this while Apple

is posting their stuff because I don't
know.

Yeah. Well, but

Like it was it was strange. It was
strange.

the one thing they did so Pan Panospinae's
thing is like AI

is great everywhere except for in the
home.

Which I think you could argue argue that's
probably true.

Sure. Sure, sure.

And

so they released an Echo Studio,

which is their high end speaker.

Like it meant it's meant to compete with a
home pod,

Yeah. Right. Right.

but now there's like a camera in it,

which I mean

every speaker should just have a camera in
it,

of course. I mean, that's obvious.

But I'm kidding. But the point is

Yes, yes.

they want to be able to

essentially know everything that's
happening in your house because that

way you could walk up to and be like,

which we need more of this cereal because
of course the Amazon everything's about

shopping. So you can just hold up the box
of cereal.

In the past the only things with camera
were the things that have screens.

But now you're gonna have these really
nice speakers sitting somewhere

and they have a camera in them.

I just think that feels weird.

You think the Echo Studio speakers have

Yeah.

a camera?

The Echo Studio speaker. Now you're just
looking at a thing about the Echo Show.

I look at what they got show.

You gotta look

at the thing about the Echo Studio.

I don't want a camera in my speaker.

Yeah, y Jay Peters

wrote this for The Verge. I'll I gotta
slack it to you so that you can be up

to n up to speed, but yeah. I'm sorry.

Well I'm not we're not in a Slack,

so I'm not sure who you're sending it to.

I see.

I'm gonna text it to you. I don't know why
I said slack.

That's just what the

I yes, I got

podcasters say. They just say th we all
slack that over to you right now.

I yeah. I

got your s I got your Slack by I message.

I got it here.

Yeah,

I just have this Claude'll take care of
it.

It's fine. Claude, find that Slack message
I just sent Steven and send it to him via

Yeah, Claude Duet. Send this, send this.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, got it.

messages.

New Echo Studio has it. Yeah, don't like
that at all.

No.

Yeah. And then they do have like

No thanks.

a echo sleep. It's like basically one of
their or echo clock or something.

It's basically an echo dot with you know
they did the one with the LEDs in it.

Now they

Yeah.

just did one the whole face is a clock.

And you can get a kid's version,

of course, because everything has to have
a kid's version and it has fun faces

on it and it's just a clock.

Here's the thing. I want to care,

but I will just point to the Verge's most
popular top five articles

in the right-hand sidebar. Number one,

Apple's Touchscreen MacBook Pro.

Number two, Apple's Pro Intel Event.

Number three, Touchscreen MacBook Pro.

Number four, touchscreen MacBook Pro.

Number five, iPad Mini. Even the iPad Mini
is still two,

three days later, more popular than
whatever Amazon is doing over here.

Listen, I bought an Echo Show to compare
to the home view whenever I

get to review the home view.

So

I will I will have thoughts come then,

but yeah, okay, camera and a speaker.

Sure.

Yeah, they want to know what's going on in
your house.

Yeah, that d don't. Now, if you can look
at my paper towels and just order some
when

I'm low, maybe that. Yeah,

I don't think I want it to do that.

I think if I

maybe not.

I think to hold up a box of cereal and say
we need more Cheerios is maybe fine.

But you know what I never do? I never
order Cheerios from Amazon.

Right? I just go to Kroger

No, I don't know what she is.

and we just buy the Cheerios. It's fine.

That's it that's it. ~ yeah. Yeah.

Do you remember the Amazon dash buttons?

Yes, that was insane.

Did you?

I had like four of ~ A, they never worked.

Like it the

The problem is

if they do work, your toddler gets a hold
of them and suddenly the Amazon

guy brings four hundred and fifty boxes of
toilet paper.

A pallet of toilet paper.

You

thought the reason no one could buy toilet
paper in twenty twenty

is because of COVID, but it was really
because these buttons were out there

No, no, no, it's Dash. That was it.

in the wild. They're they're all at one
guy's house.

They were if you didn't remember the
Amazon the

Amazon Dash button, they were a single
button attached to a single product that
when

you click it, it would just order it.

The problem is you can search for like
Angel Soft toilet paper and there's like

a thousand products. Sometimes it's Angel
toilet paper,

but it's out of stock. Sometimes it's a
slightly different version,

like ~ but it's in stock. And so having it
attached to a single product like just

didn't work. So they don't do that
anymore.

But anyway. All right. Personal tech.

Right

before we started recording, I got the
email that I'm off the wait list

and I'm all into Claude Duet.

First of all, I know you've been using it
for several days.

Is there a Mac app or do I just have to
it's on the web.

It's on the web. It's there is no Mac app.

Okay. So Claude Duet is the Muse type
agent that Anthropic has launched.

It is in preview right now. You have to
join the wait list if you want

to get access. ~ Jason got access a few
days ago.

I just got access today. And I'm already
trying to tell it to do stuff.

you

know, I still have to spend some time with
it.

But you tell me about Claude Duet.

What has been your experience?

Yeah, it's great.

It's very different than Muse.

~ it is it is less capable in some ways,

but that's I think a good thing.

~ so for ex So

It's not sucking up your DMs.

for example, I t think I was telling you
in the pre show about this change that

Delta made to no longer let you text them.

They're making you go through the app.

Yes.

So I was like, Hey, why don't you figure
the story out for me?

I want to know when it happened.

So like did a bunch of research,

found Reddit posts, found some other

site that had talked about this,

whatever, whatever. I'm just like,

but I can't confirm that it actually
happened.

I was like, hang on, here's a screenshot
of the message I just got when

I tried to text it and that's how I know
that this happened.

And it's like, cool. Conf confirmed.

I can't add this to the document that I
already created.

And I'm like, is it too hard? Like are
your fingers tired?

I don't understand why. As I said,

why? It's like I don't actually know why.

I'm just not able to edit that document.

It's like weird.

At least it admitted

at least it admitted.

Yeah. At least it didn't give me some
complicated reason of why it can,

Sure, sir.

but it just was like, I don't

know. It's just I'm not allowed to do
that.

It's like, okay, fine. But separately I
was editing something and it

it just was like, hey, so and so sent you
a Slack message.

They're waiting for your edits on this.

I I noticed that this is incorrect based
on this thing and this and this.

Do you want me to just make suggested
edits?

I was like, YOLO, just do it. Like,

go ahead. Just add stuff. I don't care.

Go for it. Yeah, sure.

Just do I'm just saying yes to everything,

Steven, with Claude Duet because

And so and then I was like, ~ but but then
it also gets a little

bit confused because like I'm going to the
Vegas Grand Prix,

spoiler alert, and so I needed I got my
media credentials,

~ okay. Excuse me?

so I needed to get

my flight for that. I also got emails
within like a day of that,

that I also got my media credentials for
both Abu Dhabi and ~ Qatar Grand Prix.

I'm probably not gonna go to those because
they're

I was gonna say you can they're far away,

all far they're real far away.

they are far away.

And

they're and then we'll see what December
looks like.

But so it was like, Hey, you have a call
today about this,

and they want to know also if you would be
willing to moderate this panel

at Web Summit for the same person.

Do you want me to go ahead and book those
flights for Vegas?

I'm like, Vegas is not in, you know,

that's not Web Summit. That's the Grand

That's not web submit, yeah.

Prix.

Right.

Also

the web summit thing is different than the
call,

even though they happen to involve the
same person.

I was like so I just respond, I'm like,

You're confused. And it's like,

hang on, tell me tell me why. So I did.

I explained it and it's like, okay,

these are not the same three things.

I get it. But so like there was enough
proximity to the things.

They're both happening in November.

This call is happening about this other

Right.

thing that it was kind of confused about
everything that was going on.

So it's it's sort of like a toddler
version of Muse where Muse is like

~ what's the scene in

Teledega nights where the kids all hopped
up on Mountain Dew,

right? Like that's Muse, right?

That's me. Yeah, yeah.

Where Claude is like a sophisticated
toddler that's not quite capable

of tying its own shoes yet, but knows that
it shouldn't leave

the house without shoes because it might
scuff its feet.

~ That's good. That's good.

So I like

it. ~ it is on the iPhone, it is on the
web.

It does do a weird thing, Steven,

Right. ~ Okay.

in in Chrome. And I think

this is a ~ an iCloud passwords ~
extension problem.

Every time I type something on the web to
Claude Duet,

passwords, the app just opens.

Which, by the way, super disconcerting
when but it has nothing

Yeah.

to do. I don't like it's not trying to get
a password.

It's just there's some in interaction
where that text field must sort

of prompt the iCloud passwords thing.

It must be like a secure input field.

There's some weird thing happening there.

Yeah.

So

on my MacBook Air, I just turned off that.

website in iCloud Passwords. I'm like,

you can never give this thing p like I
don't even want you to ask.

No. Actually,

Yeah, yeah.

no, I'm sorry. That didn't work.

The way I solved this problem is now I'm
only using it in Safari.

Because in Safari it wasn't causing this
problem.

Okay. It was gonna okay, okay.

So it's clearly a chloma chrome extension
problem.

Yeah, yeah.

But anyway,

I think it's great. I have you can create
different areas.

So I have like

Okay.

a one f for various different things and
you can just chat at it like in

the in the whole thing and it will create
you little

Tasks and it'll be Are you done?

Do you want me to mark this as done?

But it was easier for me to just
conceptually have these three sections,

right? It's like, okay, podcast stuff,

column stuff, whatever. ~

Yeah, yeah.

so I like it. I think it's great.

I would never let it I wouldn't install a
Mac app for it even if I wanted to,

but I can ask it stuff about my clock
conversations,

right? It has all

Right, which is nice. Yeah.

that context. ~ it ~ it's been super
useful.

I don't, I didn't

I did end up booking the flights that I
needed to.

I did not ask it to do that because it
wasn't Delta's website blocks it.

Stupid. ~

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

and so I wanted to book it through Google
Flights.

And I'm like, no, I don't want you to do
that because I want it booked in

the in the Delta app. I want whatever,

whatever. So there's

Mm.

some limitations and I will probably use
it for more things.

But seriously, it keeps suggesting like,

hey, ~ I suggest this and I'm just like,

yeah, do it.

Yeah, whatever. Like let's just see what
happens.

That's it. So I'm I'm in the midst of
doing that as well.

So I just I just started it up,

you know, this morning, downloaded the
app.

I had a task of Muse r aggregating

any mentions or embeds of my videos on
websites because I was curious.

And so I'm now having Claude Duet do that.

And it already gave me the first report
and it was actually found more than Muse

for what that's worth. it was like this
French website embedded your post.

It was like

~ okay, cool. All right, that's fun.

~ but because Claude already had access to
my fastmail through Cloud Cowork,

I set that up like months ago.

I this is actually really nice.

I had reached out to a sponsor just this
morning.

I was like, Hey, you guys gonna pay me
sometime?

And and apparently I just checked I just
opened Claude Duet the app now

and it was like, Yeah, they say the
payment is coming before October
thirtieth.

Which would be today, so we'll see.

~ but and Claude Duett said,

the email skipped your inbox and landed in
newsletters,

which I have an email filter that sends
any emails with the words unsubscribe

or manage my preferences into this folder.

And so sometimes emails get caught there.

And I check it periodically. But Claude
Duet is like,

Well, the reply skipped your inbox and
landed in newsletter,

so the confirmation might end up there.

That's cool. Also

Something's coming today via FedEx and you
need someone at home to sign for it.

Like that kind of stuff in my email.

I might stop going through my folders that
have hundreds of emails

a day looking just in case for sponsors.

I'll have Claude Duet do that.

And that seems useful to me. I'm excited

Well,

to try that.

and it does some interesting things where
well okay,

one drawback to it, which I understand why
this is the case and I will explain that

in a second. But so I asked it,

hey, I think Apple's gonna drop a video,

presumably about Touch MacBook Pros,

probably at one PM Eastern. Will you just
let me know?

Now I was watching anyway, in this case,

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right,

right, right.

it said, So here's the deal. I can't watch
constantly,

but I will set up a schedule to check it
at one one.

110, 130, 215, or something like that.

Nice.

Okay, great. Now, it doesn't watch things
constantly.

And the reason is, unlike Muse,

it does not have its own dedicated box in
the cloud.

Right.

It does have access to a VM, but when it's
done with the task,

it just recycles that through.

And they so they have way fewer of these
VMs and we're like

Right.

Meta's just like, whatever, we got money.

Just give everybody a Linux box in the
cloud.

It's fine, right?

Right, right, right.

So it isn't gonna be good for something
where you have to have constant watching

of something where Muse does that.

~ but it will just set up a schedule for
itself.

And and I was able to say, well,

first it said, I'll check it at 103.

I said, could you check it closer to one?

And it was like, Do you want me to check
it at one?

I said, Well, no, because if it drops at
one in one second,

you're not you're gonna miss it,

right? If it checks it right at one,

but the per the intern

Right, right, right, right.

at Apple doesn't push publish on the
YouTube video,

you're not gonna get it.

Yeah.

Right, right, right.

So it's like, what about

one two or something like that?

I like, Yeah, that's perfect. But anyway,

That's pretty good. Yeah.

it's

good. It just doesn't do real time stuff
like that.

So also

Right.

if you were like, Could you watch for my
flight?

if the flight price goes down,

I wanna get a refund, you know,

price difference or something,

yeah, yeah.

it has to set up a schedule. It's like,

Do you want to check that once a day?

Should I check on more than that?

I'm like, I want to check it every fifteen
minutes for eternity.

No, I'm just kidding. It's like it's so

Yeah, exactly.

anyway.

That's cool. Well, I'm I'm excited to try
it.

I'm hoping it will ~ f I don't know,

relieve some of my email stuff.

And I'm also it's it's been blowing my
mind kind of what Claude is capable of.

I'm gonna save it for the bonus episode
because this this has genuinely blown

my mind. I got this from David Sparks and
it is it's wild.

So anyway, we're gonna go record a bonus
episode.

I want to talk about my trip to the Apple
store and w some other stuff Claude

is doing for me. so if you want to hear
the bonus episode.

Get

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Thanks for listening and watching.

We'll catch you next time.