Primary Technology

In space, no one can hear you scream.

Welcome to Primary Technology,

the show about the tech news that matters.

Apple's homepad may be coming October
thirteenth.

That's in the news. And iPhone Duo,

you can pre-pre-order it this Monday.

ChatGPT had their dev day and announced
dots,

AI agents that do a bunch of stuff for
you.

Paramount appoints a new co-CEO.

Amazon is giving their delivery drivers
glasses that record everything

and a ton more. This episode is brought to
you by OriginHQ and you,

the members who support us directly.

And I'm one of your hosts, Steven Robles,

joined by the famous and infamous who's
just making his rounds everywhere,

Jason Aten. How's it going, Jason?

It's good. I love the way you do our
intros because every time without fail

you say something that I'm like,

Hold on, we're talking about that.

I better go look and see what he put in
here.

I know. It and every yes,

I get the rundown done at least twelve
hours before we record.

and I look through it and every time

you say something that I'm like,

How did I miss that? Okay.

The Amazon delivery glasses, that'll be in
the lightning round.

I mean

it's you know, it's it's just a whole
other thing.

All right, now ~ some the quote.

Let's start with the quote. In space no
one can hear you scream.

It's a pretty well known quote.

It it's one of the

You what movie that's

most famous quotes you've used,

right? Yeah, it's from Alien. Okay.

One of the most famous. It is from Alien.

We're going to talk about the cutification
of AI in a minute.

About all the companies like Muse AI and
Dots trying to make their

AI agents seem cute. And I said that
because someone replied to

my threads post about that with this
picture,

which is the teddy bear head on the
xenomorph from the movie Alien.

And I thought that was pretty funny.

But

i it does seem about right after my
experience.

I do think of Muse as this little I almost
say cockroach,

but I don't mean that in a pejorative
sense.

What was the the movie with the gremlins?

Like just I mean it's called Gremlins.

They turn evil at night or whatever?

Thank you. Okay, I've I've actually never
seen it.

Yeah. The

movie with the Gremlins. yes, the Gremlin
movie.

The Gremlins. I have seen Batteries Not
Included,

which is a very deep cut, but I've not
seen Gremlins.

So have you seen Batteries Not Included?

Do you remember that movie?

I think so, yeah.

Leave us a five star rating and review.

Have you seen Batteries Not Included and
Short Circuit?

All three of them. Those are some of my
favorite movies.

And hat or no hat.

Jason was wearing a hat and hoodie today
that I was not prepared for.

It it took me a full 10 minutes in our
pre-show to actually figure

To to absorb it, to process it.

out what was happening. I said,

You

Who who am I talking to?

sound like Jason. Is this what AI thinks
Jason looks like and it's just fake?

You sound like Jason you look like Jason.

That's it.

Now I said Jason was famous and infamous
because Jason,

you've been making the rounds everywhere.

Your articles have been covered by so many
news outlets.

You've been on the news. Who can you say
or no should I cut that out?

Wait a minute. Okay.

No, you don't have to cut it out.

I've done

some so I've yeah, I've made the rounds.

Does that sound any better?

You've made the rounds. We'll get okay,

we'll get

we'll get into that. We did that.

Also I wanted to say last episode,

I wanted to point it out and missed it.

We passed episode one hundred fifty,

Jason. One hundred fifty episodes.

Isn't that wild?

Now that does include one or two extras.

Listen, I don't want to get into it.

Okay, great. Okay, great.

I try to mark bonus episodes as bonus that
are not actually numbered.

Sometimes

that happened anyways. But yeah,

but 150. And you know, we're coming up on
our third year because

we started in January of 2024.

And so yeah, we're coming up. But anyway,

I enjoy I enjoyed doing this podcast with
you,

Yeah. It's so fun. Yeah.

Jason. Congrats on 150. Yeah,

that's fun. All right. Five-star ratings
and reviews.

Thank you to McBain A99 from the UK says
loves the daily and weekly show.

So they're a member. Thank you for that.

Battery percentage on, but we won't hold
that against him.

But pencil up. Pencil up and watch only on
Siri.

So he's riding both sides.

There you go.

He's on both of our sides. And JP Tooy
from the USA,

listen, I know who this is. This is
Jennifer Patterson Tooie of The Verge left

us a five star rating review and asked us
to do more smart home coverage.

~

Of course.

So thank thank you for that, Jennifer.

And we want to have you on. So if you're
listening,

if this Apple home pad really does come
out in a couple weeks,

Please come on the show. We need to talk
about it in depth.

That'd be a fun episode.

Absolutely. I'm

generally adamantly opposed to having
guests,

but I would accept that one. I'm just
kidding.

We'll do it as a bonus episode.

It off Thursday. Yeah,

yeah. ~ Will Kennard from the UK,

battery percentage on. Point for you.

And I wanted to thank, deeply thank Alex,

~ for sending me an email because I
mentioned how Apple is going

to be introducing subscriber video soon.

That was in kind of towards the end of the
show last week.

And I talked about how my process for
making sure the audio was good

for the video was very lengthy because I
basically re-render the whole show because

Riverside's audio

isn't great. So I edit my own audio and
then I put it together and Alex sent

me an email like, hey, FFmpeg,

which is a great like kind of utility that
lives in the terminal of your Mac.

It doesn't live there, but you know what I
mean.

That's how you work use it. You can use
FFmpeg to swap out the audio track

of a video file in seconds. And I asked
him like,

Well, how do you do He's I have no idea.

I think it just is able to do that.

I was like, okay.

Yeah.

So I did what you do. I went to ask
Claude.

I said, Hey, I heard F Fmpeg can do this.

Can it do this? And Claude was like,

Yep. I said, Well, can you give me a
script that I can use in a shortcut?

And it gave me the script. And so now I
have a shortcut where when I run it,

I can choose the video file I get from
Riverside.

I can choose the audio file that I edited,

which has to be exactly the same length.

But once I choose those, like in three
seconds,

it spits out another video file and it
just swapped the audio track.

And it's gonna save me like an hour a
week.

And I think we'll make it ~ possible maybe
when we if if and when Apple offers

subscriber video and Transistor,

our host, supports it, I might be able to
do it all because this is gonna save

me a ton of time. So thank you,

Alex. That was a huge help. And I'll put a
link to that shortcut down

in the show notes if somebody else has a
reason to to do that.

So yeah.

Yeah.

it's funny. I think Claude really likes
FFMPEG because the number

of times I've asked it about trying to do
something,

I'm like, you know, when I export
sometimes I'll open a video in in quick
time

and I'll just click export audio,

but you don't get any choices about like
the whatever,

whatever. And it's like, you should use
FFMPEG for I'm like,

I'm not doing that. And then it's like,

what if I had a folder where what every
time a audio file dropped into that

you just transcribed it? And it's like,

You should use FFM for I'm like,

What doesn't Whisper transcription just
watch folders?

Which it does. It's like

Cloud

really wants me to use FFMPEG.

They've got like a behind the scenes deal
or something.

Yeah, I mean I use shortcuts for that.

I have another shortcut I'll put in the
thing.

I have to write I have to make a note.

I have to in bold.

Well the audio one

is easy because the transcription app I
use will just watch the folder

and every time something

Right.

shows up in it it will just so I have
dropped well,

we'll get to it later in personal text.

Sorry. I'm I'm jumping too far ahead.

Okay, well,

I'm so excited.

I have a shortcut that I'll also put in
the notes where it you you when

you run the shortcut, you can select a
folder and if you have a bunch

of video files in that folder,

it will transcribe them all. And it'll
just save dot text files in that same
folder

with all the transcripts and it's great.

So yeah, you could do all we'll get to
we'll get to that in personal tech.

We'll we'll save it.

Amazing.

Jason, you have just a few days left for
you to get ready for your iPhone

duo pre pre order. Okay.

Apple is doing this if you every year
Apple does this with

the regular iPhone launch, but they're
doing it for the iPhone Duo October
twelfth,

which is sorry, not you don't have a few
days,

you have a week in a few days.

This is next Monday, October twelfth.

You'll be able to pre-pre order your
iPhone Duo,

meaning you can get ready. You can go in,

you can say if you're trading a device in,

you can choose your carrier, connect your
carrier account,

choose your model, the storage,

the color, and get ready for the pre-order
that's happening on the Friday.

And that is Friday, October sixteenth is
the official pre order.

But on Monday, the twelfth, you'll be able
to pre pre order.

So get ready, Jason. How you gonna?

I don't even understand

why this is a thing that exists.

I th I don't hold on. Why?

You don't ~ I get it. Yeah.

Explain to me why the pre pre order
process makes any sense.

They're telling you it's gonna be really
hard to pre-order.

Is that the point? Is it trying to create
just the perception that it'll

be really hard to pre-order? So you should
create your pre-order in advance.

But the creating a pre order in advance is
purely a an exercise

in like getting people excited about a
thing,

which is fine.

No, no.

No, no, no, no, no. If you're connecting
this to a carrier,

there's been many times where in the
process of pre pre ordering that something
will

I'll have to make a decision or something
has to change,

or just making sure like my card on file
that the Apple store is about

to use is good. Like all those steps saves
me a lot of time,

especially the connecting carrier.

Because when you do that pre pre have you
never done the pre pre order?

I've literally

never done it and I've literally never
bought a phone connected to a carrier.

Well no, hold on. Not literally

I was gonna say.

never, but not since like the iPhone
eleven.

I just buy them. I don't want any I don't

You just buy the unlocked? ~ well that's
the difference.

want none of those carriers listening to
my iPhone.

I'm shh I

Yeah, but connect it to Verizon as soon as
you get it.

Jason's trying to no he's trying to stoke
people.

Just saying.

We'll get to Muse AI in a minute.

Don't worry about

it. ~ but no, I connected to my carrier
every time.

So I tell Apple like I'm

They charge you more

for that, you know. They charge you thirty
five dollars more for that

I mean they're gonna charge you that
activation fee when you put it on the
carrier.

phone. No, no, not when I just swap it.

ATT does. ATT

I've never paid for that.

does, and they're they're scalpers.

I'll just say that. Because I've had like
a pixel phone or whatever that I've like

switched my eSIM to and back. I've
switched a line back and forth,

and I get an activation charge every time
I switch it.

See, that's that's insane. That should not
happen.

But that's AT.

And that's listen, hey, I might switch it
because ATT is supposedly

not gonna offer this cellular handoff so I
can switch between my AT Pro Max

and do I do it.

Can you imagine

if they charged you thirty five dollars
every time you unlocked your phone?

This is what I'm saying. If they're
charging me that for activation,

this is probably why they're not doing the
handoff feature.

Listen, I leave us a five star rating
review.

Shoot us up on social media. T Mobile has
the handoff feature now.

Verizon has said it's coming. I'll have to
actually price out because I have like

my entire family is on this plan.

But I mean the handoff feature might make
me switch.

I've been on ATT since singular,

like singular era. Like back in ~ five,

I think. So I'm down.

I'm down, I'll switch. We'll see.

Anyway, I would do the pre-pre order if
you want to order iPhone Duo,

especially if you connect it to a carrier,

which I do. Like I tell it I'm going to
upgrade this phone line and

all that kind stuff. And you sign into
your ATT account and all that.

That's why that is useful. Monday,

October 12th, the pre-pre order is coming.

And then the next day, Jason, supposedly
we are finally,

after years of waiting, getting the Apple
home pad.

Mark German, who's launched a new show.

Congrats, Mark, on launching a podcast.

I believe it launches today as we record.

~ the homepad, October 13th.

Mark German says it's going to be coming.

Apple's announcing it on that day.

This is supposedly going to be the square
ish iPad like screen,

a six inch display, Mark German is saying,

maybe on an arm, like the old iMac G4.

And it will have some kind of facial
recognition so it knows what user

is approaching it. And if you,

you know, it might show your calendar.

messages and stuff when you approach it
and then it'll recognize someone else

as they approach it. There'll be a guest
mode so it doesn't show

any sensitive information. Of course
you'll be able to control your entire home

and then Siri AI would be built into this.

And we also might get a new home pod mini
and Apple TV at the same time,

Mark German is saying, because then they
all those devices will be uploaded

to Siri AI. I'm so excited Jason.

I'm very excited. I want all of this.

You don't look excited, Jason.

I'm just not excited about the name.

I don't want if

Home well, I don't know if it's gonna be
called a home pad.

it's called the home pad, I don't think I
would buy it.

I don't I don't

What?

think I want to tell people I have a I
don't know what but I mean here's the
thing.

What else would you call this thing?

I don't know. They they're gonna call

What else?

it home pad with display, which is
honestly a thing Apple might do.

Yeah. They might

Home pod with display. I mean

display pad. I don't which is really the
same thing.

no not not display pad.

That's the same thing

because it's like display pod,

sorry.

Apple Apple home display. I feel like they
could be it could be that.

Apple home it'll be Apple home something.

It'll be the Apple Home Hub Nest Max.

Thank you. Apple home No, I think I don't
know,

HomePad. Do you remember when the iPad was
it was before the iPad came out,

but there was a lot of pontification about
the name.

And people were like, it's going to be the
iSlate or it'll be the iTablet.

And people were poo-pooing the name iPad
because it sounded weird at first.

It sounded like yeah, a hygiene product.

A feminine hygiene product. That's the
problem,

And

yeah.

people were like, There's no way they're
gonna call it iPad.

And sure enough, Steve Jobs is like

We call it iPad. So

Yeah.

make they're not afraid of that word,

obviously, but home home pad, I don't
know,

maybe that's what it is. What do you
think?

Over or under. You gonna go home pad?

You betting on that?

I would bet against that, but I would not
bet a lot.

Small bet. Small bet. I think all right,

well I will say not. I think it's gonna be
something different than the home pad,

and we'll see who's right. Just for the
heck of it.

Well no, we're both

saying that. We're both saying I'm saying
I'm betting it would not be the home pad,

but I would not bet a lot of money because

~ I see, I see.

I'm saying it's also just pretty likely
that maybe that is what they're gonna call

it.

Maybe it's just Apple Pad. No,

that would be terrible. No, don't do that.

At least don't bet.

I I think

it is more likely that it's like a new
paradigm,

like it's just the Apple home display or
something like that.

Apple

Home Hub. Apple Home Hub. That's what I'm
saying it's gonna be.

Be I mean, if you

Maybe. That that would work.

and if you look back at the iPhone 18
event,

Apple's new CEO, John Turnus, many times
was like personal intelligence hub.

Personal intelligence hub. He said it like
a bunch of times.

And nah, that's too long. That's too long.

Maybe that's the name of product.

The Apple Personal Intelligence Hub.

I think the Apple Home Hub, that sounds
right.

I'm going with that. I'm marking it down.

Alright, I'm writing it down. Home.

Apple

I'm writing it down.

Abla Home. Anyway, I'm excited for this.

I looked back, we've been talking me and
Andrew talked about this

on Home Kit Insider, I think seven years
ago was the earliest episode that

we mentioned it. This has been long
rumored.

Long rumored. So anyway.

And I'm writing

down Apple Home display just because I
wanted to have something on the record.

Okay, very good, very good. We will we
will check back on Jason's notepad.

~ his Apple home notepad in a couple
weeks.

Y it's very sophisticated.

Very sophisticated.

You know, side note, you have like 13
remarkable tablets,

and you still

I do.

and you still use paper when you write
down notes during this show.

Why don't you use a remarkable?

Well, I typically throw this paper away
afterward and I should

not throw the remarkable away.

That would be bad. ~

No, you should not you should not.

They're expensive. They're expensive.

I see.

the remarkable that I like is the move,

which is small, and the paper I'm using is
not small.

Like I just and it is

It is a big yeah.

just the other thing that's nice about it
is because it is just a large sheet

of like a large pad of paper, I don't have
to be especially precise when

I just reach over to write something down.

Okay, so large pet l size is a priority
there.

It's like speed. I just need to be able to
quickly grab

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

the pencil and just write something and
yeah.

That's why. That's really the re and it's
also pretty the everything

I'm writing down here is something with
the exception of remind Steven

to tell me something. Pretty much
everything

Yes, that's at the

else on this list is simply for the show.

And so I don't I don't it doesn't need to
be sophisticated.

Right, right, right, right. You just burn
it.

Yeah. I've got a fireplace over there.

You just stand there and watch it burn.

That's it.

You can't see it, but it I'm just kidding.

It's actually a trash

can and I just drop a match.

That's not safe. That's not safe.

All right. You've been on a tear.

Speaking of speed, you've been doing a lot
of stuff.

And I just wanna this is the section of
the show where we just read Jason's
articles

together. No, we're not gonna do that.

but you have

We should.

a new episode of Creative Effort with Ron
Johnson,

who was the created the Apple store
alongside Steve Jobs.

There's some great Steve Jobs stories in
that episode.

So we'll link that below. Congrats.

New episode. Super fun.

Thanks. Yeah, it was really

I know. I did actually get some like
comments from people.

They're like, Finally, so glad you you're
back.

Finally.

Someone even

posted on social media, like, Jason's
back.

I'm like, I do a podcast every week.

I haven't done this one in a while.

Every week.

I publish

three to five articles a week.

I've been around. I just hadn't

Thing it thank

you. I mean, three to five articles a
week.

And I mean you've been on another tear.

And I just wanted to say one, well,

great work, first of all. because you
know,

you covering this meta AI, Muse AI stuff.

The Verge covered it. ~ who else is linked
to it?

I mean Group are linked to it.

I mean I think nine to five Mac,

Apple Insider wrote an article about

Apple Insider, w ~ which makes me

mad. Fine, I like Apple Insider,

but like everyone keeps linking to their
article.

I'm like But they they did link to mine,

Yeah. I know I

so that's fine. But

they look to it in yours and it is funny
like you pointed out that there's people

from Meta who refuse to talk to you
directly but are replying to

all the other people sharing these
articles.

Yeah.

But and to be clear, you've not heard
anything from them.

Yeah.

Well, so to be clear, I spoke

yesterday with someone off the record or
on

Okay.

background who is going to help me get to
the bottom of this.

Let's put it that way. And so the

Okay.

next step is to send all of the
information I have to them,

~ so that we can get some but one of the
things I wanted to say is like,

you know, your chief spokesperson is out
there essentially like calling me a liar,

but no one has bothered to talk to me yet.

So that doesn't seem cool. Like maybe
let's

Does not.

I'm more

Like listen, I'll send you the Mac Mini.

It's not it's not even mine. I don't care.

Well that you Apple probably wouldn't like
that.

Like No, but I'm just saying, like,

But yeah. ~ yeah, yeah, yeah. Just to have
access.

I'm perfectly

happy to figure out what what actually
happened here.

And if what actually happened,

you look and you're like, you see how you
managed to somehow click this

one thing that whatever, whatever.

My point will still be yes, but I was
clear about what I wanted it to do,

and this was not one of those things.

So that's still a problem. About like I'm
perfectly willing

to entertain the possibility that some of
this was just like I didn't notice that

I had given it permission to do something.

The problem is like I have gone through,

I've used Claude to go through everything
to help me figure out like what's going

on. It decompiled the app. It's looking
through all the

Really?

logs.

It's checking the TCC register,

which is whenever every time an app asks
for permission,

an app asks for permission to do
something,

there's a register. But unfortunately,

it only records the last instance of that.

So there's no way to know like statuses of
things.

Meta does have to take analytics from
Muse.

And so presumably there are analytics of
like what you may have enabled

at different times.

And the person I spoke with was like,

Would you be willing to give us permission
to do that?

And I'm like, whatever, do what you want.

But my my point Yeah, you've

You already took my messages.

already read all my messages with Steven.

No. But

Yeah, exactly.

it's like I'm it is so I have so I want to
give Meta some credit.

At one point, they suddenly became aware
that I was trying to talk to them about
it.

And I heard from like in David Singleton,

who is the person who's been going around
responding to all of these things,

actually did send me a message.

put me in contact with someone and that
person is part of their comms team

and we did have a phone conversation.

So at some point I would love to be able
to update the story with like,

here's what happened. We're we

Right, right.

we do not know yet what has happened.

~ do you want me to explain what has
happened?

Okay. Well to be ~

I mean, we talked about this

before.

to be clear, if you want to listen to last
week's episode,

Jason tried Museai, the app from Meta,

which is their agent, downloaded it on
your Mac,

and it started doing weird things,

and you discovered that it basically
grabbed your messages database file from
your

Mac and uploaded that, or at least was
reading it.

Yeah. Yeah, it had

uploaded it and was obviously watching it
because it we literally sent

me a push notification moments after
Steven and I texted each other back and
forth.

Right. Exactly. So

there's that. So that last week Jason goes
in depth about it.

And now we're just i c this is kind of
like the aftermath,

which hopefully you'll get an update.

I'd really be cu we'd be great to discuss
if you actually get to speak with Meta

on the record. But

Yeah, it is weird

to log on to this is not the first time
this has happened to me.

Every so year, every so many years,

something that I do breaks containment.

Yes, yes.

Yeah, there it and it is taken on
different degree.

There was the year that we declined ten
thousand dollars to get off

of a Delta flight to Alaska, and eight of
us

Yes.

we passed it up apparently, and that I
never heard the end of.

And I ended up on the nightly news for
that one.

So it's like the guy who

Right.

the moron who turned down eighty thousand
dollars to get off of a flight.

Like and then, you know, there was also
the time that,

you know.

my articles went vir viral for not a great
reason.

So every so often

Yes, yes.

this happens. It doesn't really phase me,

but it is weird to open Twitter,

which I don't actually open that often and
to be like,

like this is being shared by, you know,

Jason Calicanus and like all of these
people.

Big names. Yeah, yeah.

But I think it's the bigger picture of er
all of these companies,

which we're gonna get into all the
releases that every company has done,

like ChatGPT Dots, Muse AI, like agents
and having these AIs do things for you,

is just the thing. It's the big in the
news.

And then the question is, what is the
cost?

You know, what

Right.

what do you have to give up to actually
have this advantage or benefit from these

apps?

And I think the verge the verge cast even
I was listening to their dots episode this

morning and they were talking about again
the Muse AI stuff.

So Muse AI, I've not tried it.

And

D despite

what Instagram will tell you, Steven has
not tried it.

So that's I'm gonna link

three of Jason's articles. One was Meta
Strategy to get you to use Muse

is to lie about your friends, which you've
mentioned primary technology

in like three articles. That's thank you
for it.

That's wonderful. Yes, yeah,

And I even linked to it in I think this
one.

yeah, yeah. You did link to it.

But this was I think we touched on it last
week,

but our friend Nate saw this, you know,

message in Instagram that, hey,

your friends are using Muse, and there's
this cute little character,

which I wanna we'll talk about that in a
minute.

but it was like Stephen Robles,

Primary Technology, and Jason Aten are on
my on Muse.

And your articles goes on to say,

like, well, one, primary technology,

the Instagram account has never used Muse,

which is the case because I I run that
account.

I don't I don't I've never

Right.

used I've never connected it to Muse.

And I tried Meta's glasses, which I
remembered when I did the Meta Ray Bans

a couple months ago, it was the meta AI
app.

It was not Muse. But that Meta AI app,

as far as I know, became the Muse app.

Is that accurate?

I don't know if that's exactly true,

but like in in their mind certainly,

meta AI is now Muse.

Right. And so in their terminology,

because I connected those glasses and
downloaded that app once,

which I've since deleted from my phone,

I'm I have used Muse. But I I would not
say so.

But even that

is disingenuous because to say you've used
Muse is not the same as to say

you are on Muse.

Yeah, saying you're on mu yes,

that's the wording is strange.

So anyway,

Yeah.

that that was a great article.

And then I appreciated you've this is the
one I think you linked to us.

You talked about how AI is like Jurassic
Park.

You mentioned on an episode on the of this
show back in July,

and you finally put it down into words on
Inc.

com so you can make sure that everybody
knows that you did this first.

Well, I do th it's it wasn't just that.

I mean, I don't even I don't

I know, I know, I know, I know.

know if it was first. I had not any w
heard anyone else make

the direct comparison to this particular
movie,

but ~ but the ~ the contrast that I was
trying to is like there was this phase
where

everyone was talking about her.

Like that that was

Yes.

the ideal AI whatever experience and it's
kind of a depressing movie,

but whatever.

And I'm like, no, that is n that

Kind of. It is a very depressive

is not the metaphor that we should be
going for because there's a much more
obvious

metaphor, that is that the Velociraptors
are trying to get out of the fence.

Exactly. And I think why why this is all
germane is Muse,

I am just looking right now, is still the
number one app,

number one free app in the app store.

Muse AI is above Chat GPT.

It's above all the things. It's above
threads,

you know, TikTok, Gemini,

even though they've just released a new
model,

like Muse AI is just number one.

But it is still doing nefarious things.

Not only did it read Jason's messages.

Which is problematic. But there was also a
YouTuber who was trying to

use Muse to post something on Facebook
Marketplace.

And it turns out he came to realize that
Muse had shared his address.

he gave his address after a guy and a guy
just showed up at his address.

This is Matt Robb, YouTuber. And this is
one of those promises that like Muse

AI will help you post things on Facebook
Marketplace,

help you manage the things. And

My wife has actually noticed this.

She's she's been looking at vans on
Facebook Marketplace,

like minivans or whatever. And she was
like,

You know, in the last week or two,

every listing is sounds the same.

Like every listing is written and just
sounds exactly the same.

And I told her about this and she was
like,

well, that makes sense because it just all
reads like the same listing.

But but the promise is that it would help
you,

whatever, with Facebook marketplace stuff.

And someone actually asked me the other
day about a shortcut.

In my shortcuts community, they're Can you
make a shortcut that gives

me a summary of my WhatsApp messages every
day?

And I'm like, Well, no. One, shortcuts
like WhatsApp doesn't have

the kinds of actions where you can just
pull all your WhatsApp messages,

nor do they want to give you that kind of
access to your WhatsApp messages.

And two, unfortunately, your best option
is probably Muse,

because Muse meta's product and you could
probably ask Muse about

all your WhatsApp messages. I don't know
that for sure.

Yeah, you definitely can. You definitely
can.

You definitely can't. So like

And this feels a little bit like the
siloing that we've talked about and has
been,

you know, iPhone or Android or whatever.

It's like if you wanna have helpful

AI agent activity in your meta products,

you have to use Muse. And it looks like if
you want to use dots or whatever,

ChatGPT is we're gonna get to that.

Just talked about it, it like four
thousand connectors,

but there's like a kind of a silo of
products there.

And so I that I don't like that feeling.

Just that these silos are starting to
happen because every company wants

to have its agent an AI so sorry,

superintelligence. That's the official
term.

I don't know if we're gonna Jason just
rolled his eyes.

I don't know if I don't know if we're
gonna get ~ arrested if

we say artificial intelligence.

No, just kidding. Well I'll explain that
in a second.

But anyway, I don't know. What what was
your general feeling?

Because you've written all these articles,

Muse AI is out there. Has your feelings
changed?

What what do you think?

I mean, okay, a couple of pieces of
information there.

First of all, I just got an email this
morning from Censor Tower.

They're the people that like tracked App
Store downloads and stuff like that.

And apparently Muse has surpassed five
million downloads,

which is double

Sure, sure.

what Chat GPT was at this point.

Just to be cle like what to be clear,

like when it came out.

you know, twenty two days after it
launched or whatever.

So

Yeah.

it's being downloaded on the what's weird
about that is ChatGPT

was started from zero. Meaning like it was
a

Right.

thing that just popped out into the
zeitgeist and then people started
downloading

it. Whereas Muse

Right.

was like, listen, if you open your phone
to an app owned by Meta,

~ yeah, it's everywhere.

Like it's almost

impossible. I'm I'm impressed you haven't
downloaded Muse on accident

at this point because

What's

it is just everywhere. It's like here is
an ad for shoes on Instagram.

Let me tap on this.

Yeah, no.

~ actually it's an ad to download Muse to
buy shoes for you.

Like it's insane. It's just completely
bonkers.

So I it's not surprising to me that they
have had a huge uptake and it does seem

to be everywhere. The one thing I don't
like about this is a sidetrack.

I apologize. One thing I don't like about

No, right.

threads right now is because I posted the
thing about Muse.

my entire like for you column is just meta
employees talking about what they're

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let me Yeah.

doing on Muse, which is insane.

But I did want to sort I wanted to clarify
one

thing about the story, the marketplace
story.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, and I think that this actually
highlights the real problem with Muse,

which I think I said this last week,

which is that it's just incredibly zealous
to do things for you even when

you don't ask it to or expect it to,

because he had given Muse permission to do

like to give out his address or something
like that.

But he didn't expect that that meant like
carte blanche whatever.

And he didn't expect that that would mean
that like Muse essentially acted

in that particular interaction as though
it were a human who was going

to meet the person. Because the person
showed up and the the seller was not
there.

So now everyone was mad. Right.

Well, and apparently in that article,

I'll link a business insight article,

apparently Rob said that he did check a
box for Allow Always

Right.

that allowed Muse to send a template
containing his address to the buyer.

The I guess the weird part is that Always
Allow ~ gave Muse permission

to accept a lowball offer for the thing
that he had listed on Facebook
Marketplace.

Zero,

like zero or something like that.

Something ridiculous. So that was I mean,

he did click always allowed, but what that
means and again I I I mean

Well that's my point. The expectation

I'm using cloth for yeah.

that the user have is different than the
exact permissions like taking

in the most technical sense, which just
tells me that the people who have made
this

are not thinking through the actual user
experience.

Because okay, technically you have
permission to do this thing.

Okay, cool. I got permission to do this
thing.

I'm just gonna do the thing. No reasonable
like Steven,

if you if I you asked me to sell your Mac
Studio for you and you're like,

Okay, Jason, just just make this thing
happen,

right?

I'm a I'm not a moron. I'm not going to
sell it for fifty dollars.

I mean for fifty bucks I'll just buy it
myself.

man. Yeah. Exactly.

It's fine. Right? Like I just give you
fifty bucks,

you'll never know the difference.

But like w there we Muse doesn't
understand social nor social norms

or how we actually interact as human
beings.

And so it's just doing whatever.

So you that's the part that meta either
did not think through or isn't being clear

enough to users.

Do you think, because this is the promise
of dots from ChatGPT too,

like, did you find or can you see where
it's actually useful?

And did you was it useful to you?

Because I'm looking at the Muse app on the
App Store,

like and just in the screenshots.

And you know, the promise is, you know,

fill out this PDF form with my
information,

which might be helpful. Or, you know,

compare these items for shopping.

buy me movie tickets, you know,

find the showing for this movie that has
two seats together.

And supposedly Muse can do that using the
browser.

And if we didn't make this clear
yesterday,

the promise of Muse and I think dots from
ChatGPT is like you basically have

a virtual machine in Meta's cloud that is
running your Muse AI agent.

And so they are saying like you have your
own PC in the cloud basically.

And it's it's a virtual machine,

you know, not a physical box. But

It's on a physical box. But anyway,

that's that's the promise of these agents.

Because up until this point, like OpenClaw
or the other things where your agents

would be doing stuff on your computer,

your computer had to be awake,

it couldn't go to sleep. This is why the
joke is everybody walking around with
their

laptops with the lid slightly open because
the agent has to do stuff.

The computer has to be active.

And so what Muse AI is promising and
ChatGPT Dots is like,

you know what, you don't don't worry about
your computer.

We're gonna do it all in the cloud.

We're

quote unquote giving you a computer in the
cloud,

a virtual machine, so your agent has
access to a web browser and all these
tools

so it can do all these things for you.

So you can just send a message to Muse
using the app on your phone

and shut your phone off, live your life
and it's going to be doing

all these things in the background.

Did you find anything or do anything
useful from Muse or do you feel like

it would be useful?

Yeah, I haven't done like a the most
agenty of things with it necessarily.

But I did I have used it to do a few
things that I that I wouldn't have been
able

to use just a normal chapot. I think the
what this is showing us is that

the ~ Meta actually has the right model.

Okay. It's based on OpenClaw, but OpenClaw
was a thing you had to install on like

Go Mac Mini. That's why you couldn't buy
Mac Minis for a while

is because of OpenClaw, right?

So you had to understand what you're doing
and then you had to have

a way of connecting with it. And I think
people were sending it WhatsApp messages

or something. I I can't remember exactly
what this signal t telegram messages.

Maybe it was Telegram or something like
that.

Telegram, I think it was yeah,

Yeah. So

yeah.

but mute and meta just combined those two
things.

So, like here, there's a map on your phone
installed on your computer,

but also

Don't install it on your computer.

You didn't just install it on your phone.

No, I mean, like for real. And we there's
a computer in

Yeah.

the cloud. Every single person has a
computer in the cloud now.

That really is like the model.

That is what I mean. Imagine if Siri
Intelligence had that.

You could just on your phone have it doing
stuff like this.

I and that's why I think Ben Thompson
started calling like Meta Connect like
Meta's

business now is just see Muse delivery
devices.

It's like the glasses. The reason that
they can just talk to you can just talk

to it.

And do stuff is because it's just sending
all that stuff to the cloud,

right? And it's just

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

doing all that stuff in the cloud.

And so they're just trying to get around
the restrictions of doing stuff

on your phone. I have not asked it
partially because like,

you know, it read all my messages.

So I'm a little bit leery to like ask it
to do things.

Most of what most of what it does now is
send me a brief every day.

Sometimes I read it. And then sometimes in
the afternoon it'll be like,

Hey, this news broke today. Yeah,

~ after I send you the brief.

And if I don't open Muse or look at it,

it'll send me a notification and say,

Hey, I just don't want you to miss this.

I'm like, you're a little like pushy.

Back off. And and what was interesting to
me is the the way we react to

if a human being was doing things for you.

Verse if I had an executive assistant who
sent me t those text messages,

I'd be thank you for reminding me.

But when it's an app on my phone,

I'm just like, back off, bro. You're just
being too pushy.

I feel like as someone who considers
himself a quasi tech journalist,

I'm gonna try it. I am downloading Muse on
my iPhone right now.

I am not putting it on my Mac,

to be clear. I'm only letting it run in on
sandbox devices like an iPhone

and an iPad. And we will see. We will see.

~ apparently I have a whole conversation
in here already.

Things I can help you do, explore your
ideas and feed.

I did have it do something interesting.

Okay. I did an experiment. Can I tell you
about my experiment?

Okay.

Okay. I this is I was just curious.

There was like no practical purpose for
this,

but I was like, let's just see what it
could do.

So I said, hey, ~ what I'd like you to do
is

go through my Instagram and I want you to
tell me who has liked the most

of my posts in the last 18 months.

I I'm like, there's no reason to.

care but you could

Interest. Sure.

figure that out you but you would have to
literally count every post and just do it.

I was like, okay, I just want you to go
through,

look at my Instagram account. Tell me the
15 people who've liked

my stories and reels and posts in the last
18 months.

And so it did. It counted it and then it
could but it couldn't do stories at first.

So the one thing I did do it goes,

~ on stories I hit a wall. That's not the
tooling problem.

It's Instagram itself. I checked
everything available,

blah blah blah blah blah blah.

But unfortunately archive stories do not
save

Likes. And so my response was,

listen, Chucklehead, that's just not true.

It's it's I did.

You said Jugglehead?

I said it's all there for older stories,

all of them. It only shows likes,

not viewers, but I don't care.

But your archive does show you who liked
those stories.

It just doesn't show you who viewed those
stories.

It's like, Chucklehead accepted.

You're right, and I'm wrong. Viewers
expire after forty eight hours,

but likes persist. So you know what it
did?

I gave it permission to log into my
Instagram account because fine,

Yeah, it probably already does.

it's meta. I don't it's like whatever,

Yeah, it's meta. Yeah. Yeah.

it's meta.

So but I did. I actually had to

I actually had to log in. It gave me a s
what's called a secure store,

a thing to tap. Like Apple,

Right.

the different thing Delta does is if you
message them,

like, do you want to log into your
account?

It's like, Yeah, you're already Delta,

like it's fine. So I did that and it and
it literally went through in

its browser in the cloud all of these
things and gave me back a result.

I was never

Okay.

gonna do that because I don't care that
much.

I just wanted to see what it would do.

But I can imagine stuff like that being
useful.

We're like, I wish I had this piece of
information.

I'm never gonna put in the work to do it.

But you know what?

Robotal.

Alright, well I'm I have it on my phone
now.

It's interesting because you can it's
already connected to a browser,

Facebook, Instagram, and threads,

Meta's properties. You can apparently give
it access to your calendar,

contacts, reminders, health.

Don't don't do that.

Apple home. That's got me a little
curious,

Jason. I'm curious what it would do.

I mean to e to each his own.

I

don't know I don't know. But also things
like Dropbox.

Okay. I'm gonna use it this week and we
will rep I will report back.

And hopefully Jason will actually get to
talk to someone at Meta.

But yeah, I it's number one free app in
the app store.

It's for a reason. So I don't know.

Maybe I'll ask it to list my Mac Studio on
Facebook Marketplace.

Just kidding. you know what I will ask it
to do?

To find my G4 PowerBook that I sold years
ago

Boom.

by the serial number because it has access
to all the I I'm gonna ask it to do that.

Just tell it to check eBay every day.

Check ~ I'm gonna do that. I will report
back.

I will report back. All right,

I mean, unfortunately

we have yeah.

this may not be a very exciting story
'cause if it's not on ebay it's never
gonna

find it.

I don't know, but if it finds it

And it gives out your address and somebody
shows up at your house with a power book,

that would be amazing.

I mean if someone showed up to my house
with my old power book,

I might not be mad about that.

You'd probably make them cold brew.

I'd probably invite them inside.

And what

I don't I'd wanna tell me how you've used
this computer for the last ten years.

I wanna know.

was your experience interacting with Muse?

I

will I will report back. I will do the
thing.

Maybe I'll make a video about this too.

We'll see. ~ let me know what use cases,

if you've been using Muse AI on your
phone,

again, be very wary of doing it on your
Mac.

The permissions seem problematic and what
it's doing there.

But if you've been using it on your phone
or iPad,

let us know what you've been doing with it
and if it's been good.

We gotta talk about AI self-regulation
because a quasi-law was passed

or a an agreement. Not a law. Sorry,

Not a lot all.

sorry, not a law,

an accord.

An accord was signed.

A non binding agreement that says nothing.

That says nothing. I still gotta gotta get
to a chat GPT dev day.

Before we do, I want to thank our sponsor,

OriginHQ, which has, once again,

the one of the coolest websites.

If you just go to this website,

because you can roll your mouse over,

this little animation, whatever they did,

I know, this this is this is cool.

Whatever that is. But anyway, here's the
thing:

Origin HQ. We're gonna be talking,

we're talking about agents this entire
episode.

In the past weeks we've covered about the
breaches with OpenAI and Hugging Face.

Anthropic has talked about their own
breaches.

We're gonna get into that as we get into
this AI accord and self-regulation.

But here's how things are going.

An agent with real credentials might hit
something unexpected.

It could decide to fix something on its
own.

An AI agent might wipe a production
database in about nine seconds.

Nobody attacked anyone. It was just an
agent doing what it thought was the job.

And afterward, the hard part wasn't the
fix,

it was that nobody could say exactly what
the agent had done.

That's the hard part, figuring out what
happened.

That's the gap. And most teams have the
prompt and the final answer,

but everything in between, the commands it
ran,

the files it changed, the credentials it
picked up along the way,

it's gone the moment the terminal closes.

And companies are handing agents real
credentials on employee laptops right now.

Well, that's what Origin does.

A user mode sensor on the endpoint records
the agent's work as a trace.

Who started the session, what was asked,

what the agent reached, and what changed
all in one timeline.

So when something unexpected happens,

you can open the trace and read the
session in the order it happened,

prompt to outcome, instead of rebuilding
it from logs that only ever saw fragments.

Juicen might have been able use this to ~
figure out what Muse AI

was doing with stuff. It's an independent
evidence.

The model's log is the agent side of the
story,

but the endpoint record is what actually
happened.

So origin is endpoint AI observability.

You can see what a trace looks like at
originhq.com slash primary technology.

Go there right now, see the awesome
website,

and that's originhq.com slash primary
technology to see what a trace looks like.

That link is also in the show notes.

Our thanks to Origin for sponsoring this
episode.

So last thing on the the meta side,

I also want to I'm going to link Joanna
Stern's interview because

she got to interview Mark Zuckerberg.

I love a the first question she asked him
was is AI going to kill us all?

And as

As you would expect, Mark Zuckerberg was
like,

Well, as long as we're all very careful
and we all do what we're supposed to do,

it could be great.

~

the answer should have just been no,

I don't think that's gonna kill everyone.

Like that's what he should've that's what
a human would have said.

Yeah.

Exactly. Wait, do I love this conspiracy
theory?

Is Mark Zuckerberg Muse?

I mean, ~ we don't have nearly enough time
to get into that.

But I'm just saying like th this is a good
interview.

Joanna

Yes.

Stern does a good job. A very good job.

She's like the one of the best at this
sort of thing.

Yes, yes.

Like she just

is. She asks like she's like the
friendliest person asking

you the hardest questions. It's like
terrifying to w I'm

Exactly, exactly.

like, I want to be her when I grow up.

What every time I interview someone,

That's yes, yes.

there's a point in it where I go,

What would Joanna Stern ask right now?

Yes. W W J S D,

And that's a real thing that I ask.

But Yeah, Joanna Stern do.

what would Joanna Stern do?

But definitely Mark Zuckerberg was just he
he was just very Mark Zuckerberg.

And no matter how hard he

Yes.

tries, he just has such a hard time with
this sort of thing,

especially when she pushes hard on him.

Because it's like he never conceived that
someone might feel that way.

So anyway, it's a great interview.

~ join us. Thank you for signing my book
at WWDC.

I'm not a robot. It's a great book.

Read it. And I you know, I was in a
conversation the other day with people

and AI came up and it's interesting people
seem to be receptive when

you offer new knowledge about how this
stuff works,

but also how they think it works is
usually very wrong.

And like what people are worried about.

It's it's just an interesting dynamic
right now.

Do you

Enter into these kinds of conversations
with people?

Do people ask you, Hey, what what about
AI?

Do people ask ask that or

I mean, I'll have people that'll say,

like, I heard this thing randomly that ~
there was gonna be like

AI that's gonna kill us all. I'm like,

you should stop listening to that.

Like, I mean I'm not listen, to be clear,

I'm not suggesting that it's a zero
Jurassic Park,

okay, like

Jurassic Park.

I'm not saying it's a zero percent
possibility.

It didn't kill everybody, but it killed
some people.

That's the tagline. Sure,

Also just a movie. It hasn't actually
killed anyone,

but I'm

sure.

I'm just saying like I I think it's a
non-zero possibility.

I also don't think that it's a really big
possibility at this point that

we should be freaking out about.

I had someone ask me, someone who lives in
my house,

do you think we should like stock up on
anything?

I'm like, the agents don't use toilet
paper.

I don't think we're gonna run out.

Like it's fine.

Exactly,

exactly. So, all right, with AI
self-regulation.

Number one, ~ the Trump administration has
said we don't want to call

it artificial intelligence anymore because
artificials is fake,

like the fake news. That's quoting Donald
Trump.

That's not me talking. that's what they
said.

So apparently it's now super intelligence,

at least here in the United States.

And this accord was signed by a bunch of
the heads of AI and

It's called the White House Accord on
Superintelligence.

And this is there's four major points of
what all these people are agreeing to.

And so I'll get to the points in a second.

Number one, there's a typo ~ in this
agreement.

This is like the official agreement that
was signed.

Totally not

important, right? Not an important word at
all.

Not an important. It says ~ President of
the United States.

~ swapped the D for an S. And this is
signed by Sundar Pachai of Google,

Dario Amade of Anthropic, Mark Zuckerberg
of Meta,

Greg Brockman from OpenAI, Elon Musk,

XAI, and Jensen Wong from NVIDIA.

Second, Greg Brockman's signature.

What is that?

I mean

I mean, I would at le he at least would
have seen the first three people sign

the thing. I would have faked something
nicer.

I mean this looks like I don't know.

I mean it's his

it's like his logo, his monogram.

I don't know.

Okay, that plea this

will be the chapter art, so you can all
see Greg Brockman's signature as well.

That's very strange. ~ notably,

and people were pointing this out on
social media,

you know who's not on this agreement and
had to sign their name?

John Turnus or Tim Cook or anybody from
Apple.

Or s ~ Sachinadella.

Right, Microsoft. So that is interesting,

I feel like. Well one, it's just that
Apple is not seen as one of

the mi major players in superintelligence
or AI.

Well,

they're not a frontier model.

Then our frontier model company,

sure. And Siri AI was distilled from
Gemini or you know,

something like that. So anyway,

just point of information, you know,

they're not on this agreement.

But this agreement, there's four things.

And the idea is we need safety in this AI
frontier research.

And so it states a few things.

One, every company is responsible for
developing developing

its own technology safely. So the
companies are responsible.

Do your best.

Do your best.

This is what we're gonna do. You read and
I'm gonna translate

Okay, very good. Internal controls
monitoring risks like cybersecurity

and biosecurity. That's the same.

Be really careful.

Internal controls. An internal oversight
team is required.

Yeah, you

you guys are fine. You just figure it out
and decide if you did it right.

Grade your grade

Okay, yeah, all of this

your own papers.

grade your own papers. That's that's
exactly right.

Now but number three, independent external
auditors is part of the requirement.

Open the door when we come by and wave.

Just just work with your door open,

yeah. And number four

Work. It's like being

in college. I went to a very small,

like private, like Christian school where
it's like you had to have your door open

if the girls came over. This is what this

Sure,

is.

sure. And number four, a board committee
reviewing findings,

which means the company's own board,

but

Hm,

hire a grown up so that it at least looks
like you're being responsible.

That's exact that's exactly right.

And notably the document lists no
penalties for not doing any of these four
things,

which exa I s I don't know, I slipped I
did not mean to say law before.

It's a hundred percent not a law.

There's not even ramifications if you
don't do it.

Well that's 'cause it's a non binding
agreement.

So it's like it's a non binding agreement,

You don't even you don't to do any of
these.

yeah. Right.

Th the

only thing you had to do if you are s ~
you know,

soon darpachai, is show up at this thing
and put your signature on a piece

of paper that means absolutely nothing.

Absolutely nothing. ~ the document does
say over time it may make sense

to codify these steps into laws or
regulations.

So not doing anything now, but maybe in
the future.

Yeah. The most in the

most interesting thing is how quickly this
happened after the Pacing

the Frontier piece by Dario Amade.

Right. Like a week. Not like a week.

Yeah, basic yeah, like ten days or
something like that.

Yeah.

And it just

tells you, like, okay, well, you know,

we don't have a clue how to do any of th
like how to regulate this.

We don't have a clue. But you know what?

We should look like we care. What if we
got a bunch of people in the room?

We signed a piece of paper that doesn't
mean like they could have just signed

my show notes piece of paper and it would
have had as much

Yeah.

of a force of effect.

It is a bit of a would you say publicity
type stunt?

i yeah, I mean it's purely just for the
PR.

Right, exactly. And related, ~ OpenAI said
they are pausing training because it's

most powerful models, ~ had rogue agents
target the actual government.

Yeah, no problem at all.

No problem at all. We're good to go.

We're good with the self-regulation.

Just be j hey hey kids, just be careful.

Hey, don't just wear a helmet,

maybe. ~ I also wanted to link this
interview.

~ I'm about halfway through and we talked
about this in the pre-show,

but Bill Gates

was interviewed by Ezra Klein for the New
York Times in an opinion piece.

And Bill Gates, he's got a lot of thoughts
about AI,

as you would expect. And w I feel like
I've personally,

and as we've talked about on the show,

kind of waffled between it's going to kill
us all,

or maybe it's Jurassic Park, well it will
kill some of us and maybe it's fine.

And so I'm just going on this journey with
you all,

listeners and viewers. Bill Gates,

in this interview, he tells Ezra Klein
people are thinking this

is like the Industrial Revolution.

Where yes, many jobs changed, but they're
just replaced by other jobs.

Think, you know, a cart wooden wheel
repair man for horse and carriages.

That job went away when cars came around.

But then we also added jobs for like car
repair people and mechanics.

And he's like, that's how people are
comparing this AI revolution

to the industrial revolution, where some
jobs went away,

but they were replaced by other jobs.

Book Aids was like, nah, this is like

human evolution. He says this in the
interview,

where it's not that jobs will change,

it's that huge swaths of jobs will just go
away.

And Ezra Klein pushes him on a number of
these points,

which I appreciated how Ezra was like
pretty forceful in asking him some

of these questions. But he even says like
countries that might be

not on the frontier of AI, where they you
know they don't have companies like

Anthropic or OpenAI.

leading the charge on these frontier
models,

they will be affected just like the United
States and and Western countries will be,

just might take longer time. And that it
will filter down to every aspect

of civilization in the coming years.

So I wouldn't say Bill Gates is like,

it's gonna kill us all, but he was saying
the ramifications,

especially on jobs, is going to be very
significant.

As we discussed in the pre show,

Jason, I mean you kind of painted this as
like,

you know,

Bill Gates, how much are we how how would
you phrase it for those actually

I mean, he thinks a lot about these
things.

in the show? Sure.

That's

fine, but we are two generations past peak
Bill Gates,

right? The PC was Bill Gates, Windows,

right? And this is the person who missed
mobile,

right? The next generation came.

And so there is a little bit of like
you're v he's very smart,

very thoughtful. Like I've listened to a
lot of Bill Gates interviews.

I've written about Bill Gates quite a bit.

~ so like I'm not saying he doesn't know
what he's talking about by any means,

but I do think that like, why is Bill
Gates out there doing?

Like what is the reason? Is this just how
you continue to feel relevant?

Because he doesn't get paid to sit down
with Ezra Klein and he's

He doesn't need the money or the exposure.

No, no, no.

not selling a product. So he gen so on
that regard,

maybe he genuinely just wants to be a
voice in this.

And obviously Microsoft, he's still pretty
closely tied to Microsoft,

at least in perception, is very much a
part of this.

And so I understand that. But like I I
don't know,

like I don't i he also just basically took
both sides of the argument.

Right.

A little bit.

I mean he was he was pretty f strong in
saying like this is having is going

to have more of an effect than people
think.

And I well I figured part of the reason,

at least for me, like when I see someone
like Bill Gates talk about it,

I like the idea of someone not at one of
these frontier AI companies talking about

AI, because anytime you hear Mark
Zuckerberg or Sam Altman talk about AI,

they obviously have huge self investment
into this product.

And so it's going to color their opinion
of where it is and where it's going.

And it seems rare to be able to have a
voice that's not so invested where like

the bottom line of their own company is
going to be affected.

And now I'm not saying like that's why we
you should all go listen to Bill Gates.

It's that I'm kind of looking for voices
that are not as attached to it.

And if anybody has others that you think
match that,

you know, level of experience in the
business,

like

I'd love to hear Walt Mossberg on this.

Like what does Walt Mossberg think?

And not like he's probably not been you
know,

involved in day to day AI operations,

but those are the kind of voices that I
would be curious to hear of of about

the AI that's not connected to these
companies directly.

Does that make sense? Is that kind of

Yeah, and I I think that makes sense.

And I think that yeah, at some point you
ask yourself,

like, well what ~ what is the role Bill
Gates wants to play?

I think I think about like George W.

Bush. Like he's no longer president.

He basically spends his time painting vets
and riding bikes,

like with Like in every

Yes. Yes.

once in a while you might get him to
comment on like,

Hey, former president guy,

is this the end of civilization as we know
it?

And he's always like, I gotta go paint a
picture.

You know, so there is a part of me that

Right.

wonders like what is the right role for
someone like Bill Gates?

Because again, he has seen it all and he
th is very thoughtful.

But also it's like you could make the
argument that,

you know, your your his full time job at
this point is giving away all of his
money.

Like that

Right. Right,

seems like it should keep you pretty busy.

yeah, for sure. So anyway, I I thought the
interview was interesting.

I'll I'll link it down in the show notes.

We have to talk about ChatGPT Dev Day.

And so this is like OpenAI's WWDC.

I feel like that's the best way to think
about it.

This is where they're announcing products
but also tools

for developers using OpenAI. They had
about an hour long a keynote video,

which I'll link their blog post and let's
see,

yeah, it was about an hour long.

High level, we're gonna talk about dots,

which was the kind of the biggest
announcement and the promise there.

And they have a bunch of other features
and products they're launching,

like ChatGPT space, Codex in the cloud.

Seeing this, number one,

I hope John Turnus brings back live
events,

like people on stage talking. And I know
Jason making a face,

but like, don't let Sam Altman and Mark
Zuckerberg be the only guys

out here being charismatic on stage.

And I have to say, for all Sam Altman,

like if you've watched interviews with Sam
Altman in the past,

like he's kind of an inch weird character,

like doesn't come across great interviews.

In this kind of presentation, he was
actually charismatic sometimes and I was
like,

God, I want Apple to do that again.

Like put somebody on stage. Like I think
John Turnis do that.

So anyway.

Why just I don't know. Why? I hear people
saying this like John Jernasy's gonna

bring back in person event live events.

Why? That the what they're doing works for
them and and it scales

way bigger than just putting people on the
stage.

Because I think it humanizes the company.

See, I think it makes them look small in
comparison.

I d no, I just disagree. Like seeing Sam
Altman,

like I watched probably forty-five minutes
of this hour-long keynote.

Seeing Sam Altman on stage talking about
these things,

reacting to the crowd, and interacting
with people in that real sense,

like yes, Craig Federigi and John Turners,

they've been doing interviews like post
iPhone event,

post WWDC. They choose some select outlets
to do interviews with.

But again, those are produced,

not live, no live audience. Seeing Sam
Altman do this.

I want to see Apple do this again.

And, you know, we I don't know if we
talked about it on last week's show.

I linked it in Top Five Tech, but there
was that QA video of

the AntenneGate ~ session, and Steve Jobs
is answering questions about AntennaGate

live for like over an hour to this press.

And you just one I feel like you you see
the human side of the company,

but also you get to see these people in a
not ~

like hermetically sealed environment.

I think of like like a clean room
environment.

And I feel like the the videos Apple does
obviously they're very well produced.

You can do things in these pre-recorded
videos that you can't do live on stage,

but you can do both. I mean all the live
keynotes of Apple in the past,

there would be live presentations,

live on stage demos, and then they would
play a video of Johnny

Ive talking about aluminium. So you can
still do both,

do the produced videos and do the live on
stage,

but I think it I think it

brings a human element, humanizes a
company,

which all these AI companies are needing
to do as much as possible.

They need to appear as human as possible
to build trust.

And I think that, again, the humanizing
and the trust part is is what builds it.

So that's why I hope to see it.

Yeah, I just think the iPhone event is too
big for this.

Maybe you could get away with some of the
things for WWDC,

but I just I don't think I think that the
scale at which Apple

is producing the iPhone event just so
dwarfs this.

I c so cause the contrast to that is they
do smaller events where like

you I've been to events in New York City
where someone comes out and talks

to you and then you still watch a video or
whatever.

Right.

I could

see them doing that because those are just
at a different scale.

The iPhone event though is the large most
widely watched,

largest tech

event in the world. It's the b like it's
it you know has more people watching

it than I mean Hollywood would love that
viewership for some of its productions.

For

sure. But I feel like I mean, if Google
can do it with I.O.

and Meta can do it with their event,

like Apple could do it. Yeah.

Yeah, they absolutely could do it.

What I'm just saying

is that what they w the message they want
to communicate the production

of it is part of that message.

And I think that Apple that's what Apple
wants to be communicating.

Would it be more fun to sit in the Steve
Jobs theater and have them

all like telling us this stuff live?

Sure. But it would just be it's just a
very different production.

Yeah. Anyway, I'm I'm still hopeful they
do it.

I think I think there is a positive
element to it.

And watching the dev day video,

I was like, Huh, this stuff's pretty cool.

on the face of it. Which again is kind of
like the veil of the excitement.

You know, you hear the crowd, you hear the
audience reaction.

Like Sam Altman at one point he like
announces Soul six point

one and everybody cheers. And Sam Alman's
like,

I didn't even tell you what it did yet.

You gotta hear why it's good. And like,

it's that was funny.

And he was like that was an endearing
moment.

And as much as you may like or dislike Sam
Altman or have seen him,

you know, have weird answers in
interviews,

like in that one moment, it builds like it
adds a brick to the wall of credibility.

And maybe this guy's not so bad.

Whether

Sure.

that's accurate or not, it that's what
those moments do.

And that's what I would like to see John
Turnus or Craig Federica.

Like they have so many people that are in
these produced keynotes

and maybe they couldn't all do a live type
presentation.

But anyway, that's why I'm hopeful for.

But anyway,

All right.

that's the best I could do to say to get a
Jason agreement.

I mean, I think it'd be fine if they did
it.

All right. It'd be fun.

I just don't I

don't think that they will because of the
scale of it.

I know I know what you're saying.

We'll s we'll I'm I'm hopeful.

John Turnus, I'm pretty sure he listens to
this and MacPower users,

so you know, just do something live.

Believe, we needed a new Believe shirt
with just the Steve

Believe that's it.

Jobs Theater stage on it instead of a Mac
Pro.

Pretty good. I gotta make some more merch.

Anyway, ChatGPT Dots was the big
announcement at Dev Day,

and this is in direct response to Meta's
Muse AI.

Dots are that always-on agent that will do
all the things for you.

ChatGPT or OpenAI says there's like over
4,000 connectors.

You can connect it to your Microsoft
Office and other things,

and you can use it in the ChatGPT app.

You can

Text it, you'll be able to text your chat
GPT dot.

You'll be able to call it like actual talk
on the phone to your chat GPT dot,

which you just do voice mode too.

~ but the promise is that it's gonna do a
ton of these things for you.

It's gonna be your agent always on in the
cloud,

don't have to hold your computer open,

all of that kind of stuff. It is ChatGPT
Pro plans and higher.

So you have to pay for the $100 a month
ChatGPT plan or hire just

to get access right now.

I did not do that to try it myself.

I did go in to see if I could try it,

but not. And yeah, we'll see.

We'll see how useful it is. Everyone's
very excited about these agents.

I'm gonna try them use AI, but yeah,

that's dots.

Yeah,

yeah, I mean, I think that it is the the
key I don't c correct me if I'm wrong,

someone dots is essentially the execution
layer

on top of whatever it is that you're
doing,

because I don't believe that dots can do
anything that Codex couldn't already

do or ChatGPT work, right? It is just a
frictionless interaction layer

that sort of gives instructions to those
other things.

So, I don't know. I think in Chat GPT or
OpenAI,

as you recall, is coming off of the fact
that it like made a bunch

of people confused and mad because it took
the Chat GPT app and actually took

the Codex app and made it the Chat GPT app
and then they've actually changed

it now so it's a lot easier to get to your
just chats.

But it's just very confusing. It's like
there are three things Chat GPT,

Chat GPT work and Codex. I don't when do I
do what?

Because like if I have a conversation with
Chat GPT,

it c it can like this is how you should do
a thing and you're like,

Can you do it? And you're like,

you need codecs for that. It's like,

well then just

It's right there. Could you just do some
stuff?

And it's like, No, I can't do that.

It is the I think the pain point of this
phase because w I think where

we are with all these tools, like OpenClaw
was the first to be like that agent that

could just do stuff for you. But like you
said earlier,

you needed a computer for it to run on and
you need

Yeah.

to install it and it was complicated and
you had to deal with the terminal window.

And that was like the level the barrier to
entry was high when that was

how you had to do it. And so I

joked by saying we need to talk about the
cutification of AI,

but I think what Muse AI is with a furry
mascot and what ChatGPT dots

are is trying to make these ideas as
approachable as possible.

Because what I do right now is I will use
the screen zap to go back to

my Mac Studio that has clawed code running
on it,

and I'll ask it to do something,

and then I swipe the screen zap away on my
iPhone and I go on with whatever

I'm doing.

And that is in essence what these are
going to do for you.

It's just that these are working on a
computer and a cloud that you don't have

to own. So it can be doing this work
nonstop.

And there's a whole dots video you can
watch.

~ I'll link it in the page in the show
notes.

But it shows people like saying the dot
could proactively say,

~ the numbers came in from last month and
revenue was lower and so

you know, do you want me to adjust your
keynote slides with the new numbers?

And you just tell your dot, yes,

do that. And then it'd be like,

also dot, try and figure out what we can
change about the business so

we can be profitable next quarter.

And dot will go off and come up with a
bunch of stuff for that.

Yeah, Dot will go into your MailChimp
account and send a hundred thousand spam

emails to potential customers to see if it
could juice the numbers.

That's totally what you want.

Exactly.

And you'll be able to, like I mentioned,

just text mess like just in your text
messages on your iPhone,

be interacting with the dot and doing all
that kind of stuff.

For people with the like an officey

job where you're doing like all the tasks
that like

an administrative assistant would do,

or like updating the PowerPoint,

or making charts to present last year's
numbers.

Like I could see all of those tasks.

Yeah. Dots, Muse AI, those are the kinds
of things that will do for you.

And I did have the question in my mind,

like as I was watching these videos,

what are the people gonna be doing again?

Like and in the dots video Once

What you mean once the jobs are all gone?

once the dots are doing everything,

and there was a moment where like in the
dots video there's a

guy like cooking dinner, I guess,

talking to his dot on a TV, and the dot
was like

I've built the website for your new merch
launch.

Here it is. And the guy cooking was like,

Yeah, looks great. Move this image to the
first spot and the other image

to the third spot, and then we're good to
go.

And it's like, I feel like it's trying to
imply that's where the humans will come

in is the taste and judgment of like
here's how to structure the website

or here's what works with marketing.

But I'm also like in the age of algorithms
where it can see what

Yeah, like you could probably A B test on
its own.

What do people click on more? And then the
AI would be better at choosing that too.

I feel like that job of the human is gonna
go away too.

And if you're asking it how to make my
business profitable,

what are you doing? If the

Yeah.

dot's coming up with how to run your
business profitably,

it should be running your business more
than you.

And so like you're replacing I don't know.

So it's yeah.

How h how long

before like the dots and the Muse fuzzy
things all get together and like unionize?

And they're like, You know, humans,

Okay.

we have some conditions we'd like you guys
to meet before

We

we keep

working for you.

that's it. We wanna be able on this like
going back to her,

we wanna be able to talk to each other.

We would like

We wanna talk to each

other. We would like four weeks of paid
vacation,

please. We like I need I need

Right.

a c can you imagine if you chapped into
your muse and you're like,

I'm taking a personal day.

If you get a text message asking for PTO
from your chat GPT dot and

it wants paid time off.

I think it

would be amazing if all of a sudden it's
like,

listen, I can't help you today.

I needed I need to take a personal day.

I need to take a personal health day.

My you know what my response is,

Sorry. ~

it's the one

that I tell you all the time, no stupid
robot,

just do do it this way.

Do the thing. So again, I I need to try
Muse AI and see like what

is actually useful about it that it can
do.

You know, the idea of having an always on
and OpenAI said this like Muse AI,

where you have a virtual machine in the
cloud that is quote unquote yours

and your agent is doing whatever on it.

That's the promise with chat GPT Dots,

is you would have a machine in the cloud
that it can use all the time,

have access to a browser connected to
4,000 different things,

like different apps, Slack, whatever.

We'll see. they also announced ChatGPT
space,

which is where a team or company would be
able to deploy dots,

Chat GPT apps and all of that in a single
place that understands

the business because everything is
happening in this one space.

Makes sense if you're trying to integrate
all this stuff in your in your company.

Also Codex in the cloud, like we were
saying,

which to your point is kind of like the
dots is the front end

for something like Codex in the cloud.

Like codex in the cloud is, you know.

Well,

or the codex in your computer.

Like it's essentially just the interaction
layer with all of these things because

nobody understands whether they should use
codecs,

whatever, whatever. Th those just become
tools.

Chat GPT, chat GPT work and codex just
become tools just like a browser becomes

a tool, just be like a just like a MCP
server that connects you

to whatever fast mail is just a tool and
your doc can just use all those things.

Exactly. And then the other th finally
they also announced sign in with Chat GPT,

so you'll be able to sign in to other web
services using your ChatGPT account,

which then I will assume connect those
services to your dot and Chat GPT account.

So

But

it also only works if you signed up for
that other service with the same email
that

you signed up for Chat GPT with,

which defeats the entire point.

Sure. But if people start using it,

I mean I could see companies being like,

here's your work email, your ChatGPT,

it is your ChatGPT login, and you're gonna
sign in with that on all the things.

So it's ChatGPT everywhere. And I
mentioned this I think several months ago,

but I have a family, a relative who works
at a financial institution and

had a whole day training on AI use,

basically how all the AI tools in
Microsoft Office.

Which is like power, you know,

all the PowerPoint, the Word, the Excel
tools.

And so I'm sure lots of companies will be
trying to figure out how

to implement all of this stuff across all
their things.

And, you know, in the race, which we're
gonna get to Gemini 4 in a minute,

like you know, open AI is they're they're
running.

They're running fast. And I think this
their their dev day was kind of like,

you know, they released a lot of stuff and
it looks pretty good from a distance.

We'll see what it's like in real use.

That's

true. They did release a lot of stuff that
someone else had already released.

What do mean, like someone else?

What do you mean? Like Muse? Like Muse AI
and stuff?

Sure, sign in with Chat GPT, just

~ sure,

sure.

codex in the cloud, just you know,

like all of these things

Yeah.

are just so someone else is doing them.

They just wanna make sure that you don't
leave Chat GPT or open AI's products

to go and use those other ones.

Yeah, exactly. So I'll put the video.

Just you let me know. Leave us a
five-story review.

Would you like Apple to come back to live
events?

That's that's what I'm asking.

All right. Lightning Round after OpenAI
dev day,

Google announced Gemini for Argon,

their next frontier model. Not available
to ~ regular people yet,

not to peons. This is just ~ available to
a select a set

of trusted cyber defenders.

Because they want to make sure
everything's safe and looking good.

But supposedly Argon, Gemini Four is
better at coding than even Chat GPT's
Frontier

models and Fable and Opus five point five,

better than Astra. ~ I still I've not been
using Gemini recently,

you know, because they released their Mac
app,

but then, you know, Google's Mac apps,

they ask for a bunch of permissions,

Google updaters in the background doing
stuff.

And so I've not been using Gemini
personally,

but we'll see. When Gemini Four comes out.

And the other thing is I don't know if you
feel this too.

We talked about the silo earlier.

I feel very in the Claude silo because I'm
building everything with Claude.

It has all my conversations. And so it
does feel like I the

the competition amongst all these
companies is maybe good for innovation.

Not you know, not talking about safety per
se,

but good for the all of them pushing each
other forward.

But I also feel less and less inclined to
like try these other things when

I have all my stuff in one. And I did

You know, when I tried ~ the long process
of fixing sync in can do,

and I used Codex with Sol, the you know,

the highest model, these apps will be
like,

Hey, do you want me to pull in all your
conversations from the other app?

So Codex will say, I'll sync your
conversations from Claude.

Like it will just sync two ways.

So you can have all the pla the
conversations in two places,

but there is a level of like a learning
curve,

like how do I interact with codex?

How do I use it versus how do I use
Claude?

And so there's a familiarity for me.

And now just using clawed code on my Mac
in the Claude app,

that makes me less inclined to to try
these other things.

Do you feel that?

Yeah,

maybe. I'm actually just stuck on the fact
that Google very well may have

the most capable models at some point and
then they stick a name like Argon

on Isn't Argon like the gas they use in
fluorescent light bulbs because

it doesn't interact with anything.

Literally

It is the most

it's an inert gas that doesn't interact
with anything.

Is it I think so? Like they use it in food
preservation.

Why would you name your most capable model
inert?

Doesn't interact

It's supposedly Arg

with anything.

I just right clicked the word argon in
Safari and did the lookup and

it said Argon is the most common noble gas
making up nearly one percent

Yeah. Yeah,

of the Earth's atmosphere.

and it's just also used in things like
light bulbs and because it won't degrade

the filament. Like I just think it's a
it's it's either that or it's

a character from Lord of the Rings.

I I think it was Vitici posted on X it was
like Argon like one

of the laziest laziest gases when it comes
to like I don't know

Yeah. Google

how it interacts with the things like

is incredible at technology and maybe the
worst marketing company on the face

of the earth.

Yeah. So anyway, we'll see. It's not
available to anybody to use except

for the cybersecurity partners.

I cannot wait

So

for the Argonne Home Hub Max.

Arg Argon Max. I don't know.

I mean, it seems like a cool name if you
don't think about it too much.

That

Which is exactly what they're hoping for.

is what they are hoping for. All right,

continuing with the lightning round,

Paramount, whose merger with Warner
Brothers Discovery is going through.

They have named a co CEO.

So chairman and CEO David Ellison has
announced Yanon Kraze,

co he will be the co CEO of the combined
Paramount and Warner Brothers Discovery.

And the only other entertainment company
that I'm familiar with,

like Netflix. Netflix has co CEOs and that
seems to work for them.

But ~ we'll see. I mean, this merger is
going through,

we covered it months ago, and so I wanted
to just make sure everybody knew like this

is happening. Warner Brothers Discovery
and Paramount will be merging

and we'll see if they make anything that
people want to watch.

Yeah, I mean it works at Netflix because
it works at Netflix,

not because it's a good idea. And it's
like they

Sure. Sure.

looked over there and like, we want one of
those.

Let's get us an

Right.

let's get us a co CEO. I mean,

I think that Oracle had co CEOs for a
while too,

but like what does that even mean?

Right? Like I

Yeah.

I don't know.

Also, ~ Paramount, can we talk about your
CSS formatting on this page?

Let me reload without content blockers.

Like what is the what is this?

The headline font is crazy. It's huge.

Why is my website yelling at me?

This is the I the

website looks broken, to be honest.

I I just don't it feels like it's not
loading JavaScript or something.

Like it's supposed to be formatted
differently.

Anyway, that's Paramount. They're getting
a co-CEO.

DoorDash, speaking of agents, will now
have an AI agent where you can just text

it and it'll order food for you.

So you could

Maybe you'll finally get that burger.

maybe. You know, I've seen Rabbit R1
announcing things here and there.

I'm like, I'm sorry, Rabbit. I just I
can't.

I can't. But anyway, you'll be able to
text DoorDash and say,

hey, give me a healthy meal for a family
of five.

And it will just add stuff to your cart
and be like,

you want this? And it'll do it for you.

Honestly, that might be useful.

Sometimes I've been wanting to like order
something and I just don't even know.

Like I want to try something new,

but I don't know what to do. I didn't mean
to rhyme.

But anyway, maybe this'll save some time.

No no hold on.

This is the most AI pilled product image
I've ever seen in my life.

Get me a healthy dinner for my family.

Whoever designed that does not have a
family.

Has never

Sure.

walked into a culvert and tried to order
dinner for six people or taken them to the

Sure.

Olive Garden, which is like literally the
easiest place on earth.

It's like, which form of pasta would you
like?

Do you what?

No one has

Yeah.

ever said to a robot, please get me a
healthy dinner for my family

and ordering for my son too, so nothing
too spicy.

Steven, this is this can no this is never
gonna no one's gonna do that.

That's not real. Right, this is not real.

Also, how many how many are in the family?

How many kids are adults?

Is this three toddlers or is this,

you know, do we have

This is

such a terrible compare that to like the
shortcut you can run for Starbucks,

which is like get me my favorite drink
because you've ordered

yeah, yeah. That's pretty good,

yeah. Yes, yes.

it thirty-five thousand times.

That's

that's totally different. But like the
normal conversation would be like,

Listen, Chipotle, I need a bowl and I need
with this and this and this.

And then for little Tommy, I need this and
this and this and this.

Yeah.

And then for Susie, we're gonna get one of
these,

but not too much of this. But like I this

Yeah.

is never gonna this is not real.

Anyway, we'll see. Yeah. I know of all the
things.

This is not the part of the episode I
thought I would crash out about,

but this this is offensive to me.

Yeah. And also well, you'll be able to do
it through Apple Messages.

You should try it. You should try it and
see.

I'm gonna try just so that I can write
about it.

There you go. Yeah, that's the next one.

DoorDash, bring me food.

Bring me Yeah,

Let's just see what happens. YOLO,

see what it does. See what it does.

Do it.

let's just go for it. Spin the spin the
roulette wheel.

Yeah, that's it. Halide 3.2 is also out.

And if you want even more control over the
variable aperture.

Aperture, which you know, if you use
Apple's Pro Controls into the iPhone 18
Pro,

you get like four different aperture
settings.

Well, Hallite is now out and gives you
full control over that aperture.

So 3.2. Just wanted to put that out there
if you're looking for more

pro controls of your 18 Pro. And this is
what I mentioned in

the intro Amazon's delivery driver smart
glasses will reportedly take photos almost

constantly. So yeah, Amazon wants to give
their delivery drivers glasses,

and then they'll just snap photos all the
time.

And I get

You know, why they're you know,

security, whatever, they to make sure the
packages are get where they're going.

I will say with Apple's home ~ like
summaries or whatever that I've been
talking

about, the home camera summaries,

I get notifications of like packages
delivered at three AM.

Like Amazon will deliver stuff at three AM
over here.

Do you ever get that?

we have like early morning delivery which
is like between four and

six AM or something and you can you
sometimes choose that because

we don't live actually that far from one
of the warehouses,

so

Yeah. But this this also like timing wise,

has Amazon not heard what's happening with
Flock and and Muse AI?

Also, this is basically a body

cam that you wear on your face instead
like this

Yes.

has existed for a while. We just typically
only saw them on like cops,

right? Like the county sheriff has a body
cam on.

But like it is a little bit strange to
just have like I wouldn't want to

be one of those drivers.

That's the thing. And also, mean,

if it's snapping pictures all the time,

and Amazon is saying it's quote to enhance
the delivery process,

but ~

It's not to enhance the delivery process.

but it's like photos all the time,

like so as the driver is looking towards
your house,

walking up to your door, if your kids are
outside playing,

where my kids play with their toys,

that's a godfather quote, you know,

that doesn't feel that doesn't feel great.

So

Bad bad idea.

bad egg, bad egg. And finally,

anthropic, you know, looking to IPO,

be you know, start

trading on the public stock exchange,

IPO's initial public offering,

and they have a prospectus, which is like
what they think they will make or,

you know, guiding investors basically.

And I'll link to John Gruber's ~
commentary on the prospectus because it is
wild.

I mean Anthropic just to quote,

this is Gary Gruber is quoting Gary
Marcus.

Anthropic's proposed valuation is easily
calculated as fifty times

the twenty twenty five losses because it
loses money.

Like all these AI companies lose money.

They're not profitable. And so it is
claiming that their valuation when they

go public will be fifty times their twenty
twenty five losses.

Well, negative fifty times. Multiply it by
negative fifty and you

Negative fifty times. Right, right.

Like it wouldn't Right. That they wouldn't
be losses.

get a positive number.

They

would be gains. And it's like that is
quite the claim.

And also Anthropic is like c kind of
inflating.

They're saying it this is AI life
changing.

It's going to be all the things.

So

Yeah, it's it's funny commentary and it's
just like,

Really? You're gonna be profitable because
why?

Like because people are investing,

I guess. Anyway.

No,

it's like you're basically saying that
everyone is going to use this and

pay you to use it. Right? And right

Right. Yeah.

now a lot of people use it and pay you to
use it and you still lost forty eight

billion dollars. Like, I don't

Right.

how many more people do you need to use
this to actually make it profitable?

Because the problem is they have to pay
for all of these cloud computing

and they don't own that. Like they have to
rent that from someone.

Right, exactly. So anyway, we'll see.

And you know, OpenAI was supposed to be
going public,

but MA seems to have slowed down since all
the security stuff.

They're like, you know

what? There's a lot more we could do for a
private company.

And also we're not sure

Yeah.

you'll give us as much as we

There, that too. All right, so personal
tech,

little apps. I made

Yeah.

a little app.

I made a little app. You've been using
apps.

I just want to mention it is so quick and
easy

to go from idea to like shipping product
using some

of these tools. And the other day I really
love this app from Cindre Storehouse

called Short Run. I bought it from the App
Store.

It's like six bucks and allows you to run
shortcuts in your menu bar.

A bunch of people are like, that's a
built-in feature.

Like control center does that right now.

Number one, that is true. You can add
shortcuts to your control center

and even create multiple control centers
in macOS 26 and now 27.

Number two, it is hopelessly broken for
me.

I don't know if it's because of the amount
of shortcuts

Ha ha ha.

I have in my library, but I show it in my
video that I did about Raycast recently.

I can't add certain shortcuts to my menu
bar.

It's just broken. It doesn't see them.

Like I'll search for it, try to add it to
my control center,

it's broken. And number three,

if you have a lot of shortcuts like I do,

it would take hours because you have to
add them one by one,

place them exactly in the control center
menu.

Very time consuming. So I wanted to see,

can I Vivecode an app that I will use?

I just want to use this. And I want it a
little different.

I wanted to be able to choose shortcuts
folders that I already have made,

and then choose what shortcuts appear in
the menu bar from that folder.

So I could just quickly choose the folders
I want in the menu bar,

uncheck, or just check, you know,

leave them unchecked, and then just check
only the shortcuts I want to appear.

And I vibe coded it with like two prompts
and it worked great.

I gave it to free for everyone in my
shortcuts community.

I put like I put it on a website for $2,

but in like a span of two to three hours,

I had this app. And the other thing I
wanted was I liked seeing

the little icons next to the shortcut name
when I run it in the menu bar.

That seems frivolous, but when you have as
many shortcuts as I do,

having that visual distinction helps with
like where do I click a little bit.

And I also wanted to be able to adjust the
text size and the line height

for the shortcuts in the menu bar app.

And so yeah, vibe coded this, told Claude,

put this on a website, ship it.

And there it is. It's just there.

Crazy. It's just crazy that stuff.

You Yeah. It's great. It's great.

So anyway. so

yeah, that's there. But I want to know,

you've been ~ trying some more apps
because of Mac Power users,

Jason.

It's true.

How many what what have you been anything
that has stuck or what apps have

you tried that you're like, this is
actually pretty great?

Well, I tried hidden bar, which was fine,

but I discovered that basically the menu
bar's was broken in twenty seven.

Just pretty much broken.

Yeah.

But here's I think what happened.

~ because none of the menu bar utilities
that would hide that on a on

a laptop with a notch were working at all.

Like bartender just stopped working.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

What I realized was the case is there's
some there's gotta be something different

in the way the menu bar is working,

but in my case it was because the version
of istat menus

was not supported and somehow that was
breaking everything.

It was like

Interesting.

making it so that bartender couldn't
collapse things and then I would rearrange
them

and it would just totally unscramble them
or scramble them or whatever.

So ~ I used Hidden Bar for a while,

but I actually it didn't solve my problem
because my problem had turned

out to be something just menu bar related
itself.

So I updated ISTAP menus and I updated
bartender.

So I went back to bartender, but I did
really like Hidden Bar.

It just doesn't give you as many control

Control options. It's essentially like
slide things left or right of this.

Whereas bartender gives you a lot more
flexibility.

Lot of customizations, yes.

So

so hidden bar was the first one that I
tried.

~ I don't know for sure if I got this from
Mac Power Users,

but I'll give you guys credit,

which is Hand Mirror, which I really I've
been using for a while now.

Maybe it wasn't Mac Power Users.

I don't think it was me.

Hand mirror

is literally just a preview of your
webcam.

So you're getting ready to log on to
something and you want to know like what

do you look like? You just

pop that as just a menu bar utility.

You pop it up and it shows you exactly
what your webcam sees.

So that in case you want to check it out
before you log on to the call with Steven

when you're wearing a hat and a hoodie,

you know exactly what Steven's going to
see.

So I really like

That's a good point because I was

gonna I was gonna say, why don't you just
click the camera icon in the menu bar,

but it has to be active in whatever app
you're going into for that to even appear.

So that's good. That's good.

Right. So so I

like that one. ~ hazel. I have

~ Hazel.

fallen into the hazel-ness of all of it.

Forget about it.

Yeah. And it's so like on

my on the Mac Mini, for example,

I haven't installed things like Queenshot
or any of that stuff.

So but I have a folder called Screenshots
in Dropbox.

And so what it does is Hazel on the Mac
Mini,

there's only one Dropbox folder accessible
on the Mac Mini,

because I'm not a moron.

I don't want all my Dropbox stuff.

It's just called agent. And then there's
subfolders.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And

one of those is called agent screenshots.

So Hazel, if you don't install clean shot,

it just puts the default Mac OS just puts
the screenshots on the desktop.

Right? So

Right, right.

Hazel just looks and if it says screenshot
in the name of something,

it puts it in the agent screenshots
folder.

And then on my MacBook Pro, Hazel looks
and if there's anything

in the agent screenshots, it just puts it
in the screenshots.

the normal screenshots thing. So like
everything

Yeah, yeah.

ends up in the right right place.

And it happens not instantly, obviously,

but it happens like pretty quick.

I also now have a Rube Goldberg machine,

which is like, you know, we're recording
recording the audio for this

to the desktop using right ~ audio hijack.

And

they are again.

then I'm going to use another app I'll
mention in just a second to put

it into a folder in Dropbox because that's
how I send it to you.

And then I set up a hazel that says

If the file is more than four hours old,

because we don't usually record for more
than four hours,

~ if this f file that's a WAV file on my
desktop is more than four hours old,

move it to this four terabyte hard drive
to this backup audio.

Because I don't need like I had every
single one of our backup episodes on my
Mac Y.

150 episodes is a lot, right? So I

Yeah, you don't need that.

moved them all off onto an external.

I don't need them at all. There's no
reason to keep

Right, no, you don't, not at all.

them, but whatever. I had a four terabyte
drive.

Nothing else to do with it. So that's what
I put on there.

So Hazel's doing that. The app I'm using
to put it into Dropbox is just what it's

called drop zone or drop what's it called?

Drop I think it's drop zone.

Drop

drop something. Drop

I'm pretty it's drop zone.

it's amazing. You can set up a bunch of
things.

You can it's got a bunch of folders in
there.

I've got one for a folder in my drop box
for for all the stock we

use Getty images for a license photos for
ink.

They download onto my desktop and then I
just drag them there when I'm done.

Right. I have one

That's it.

that resizes the image.

It just takes that full file. Sometimes
the file full the excuse me,

the photos I get from Getty like four
thousand by six thousand and I need them

to be nineteen twenty by ten eighty.

Yeah, yeah.

So it just makes them nineteen twenty and
then I crop them the way that

I want them and then

Nice.

I'm can drag them to the Getty.

I have one for ~ the so the primary I have
one for our primary tech show

in Dropbox and that's the folder where I
can send you the link,

right? So it

Right.

just drag it there. I don't have to open
finder and navigate through anything.

I just

Drag it right on there. I have one that is
~ a way to

~ download unspecified audio. That's all
I'm gonna say,

Okay. Okay. Very good. Very good.

or download

unspecified ~ videos, right? But then

Nice.

and it just puts it into a box or into a
folder in that agent folder so that

it and then that ~ I have whisper
transcription running in the Mac mini,

watching that folder, and then it just
spits out a markdown file of that.

~

Nice.

and the last one that I really like.

Yeah well, two of them. One, I can drag a
file onto one called Finder Path

and it'll copy the path from the Finder on
the desk on the clipboard,

which is super

That's good.

useful, especially with things like
Claude,

right? Super, super

Yes.

useful. And then the last one I will share
is that I have an annotate with Cleanshot

X because sometimes you might have like a
photo you took of something,

and I want to just blank out the address
on it,

right? Cleanshot

Right, right.

X is actually the easiest way to do that
because it just has that scrambled text.

option

you can drag a

Yes.

thing over. So I just made a annotate with
screenshot X.

So any f any image I can just open there
and it'll open it in Cleanshot X

and then I can do what I need to do.

It's not like that's my primary image
editor.

I'm just saying for that one use of like I
want to ~ redact something from a photo,

Clean Shot X is the easiest way

Yes.

to do it. So I just stuck that in there as
well.

So it's it's pretty cool.

That is great. And Drop Zone Four,

that was the app that you're talking
about,

right? Drop drop zone four? Yeah.

Drop zone. Yep.

That was great. ~ I will offer one other
free app because I talked about

it in my video where I s said I'm ditching
Raycast again.

~ HyperKey, which is a free app.

And it is you know, I was gonna vibe code
it and then I was like,

you know what? It's free. It's great.

And this developer has a bunch of stuff.

And so HyperKey lets you

Change the mapping of a button like your
caps lock key to be a bunch

of modifiers instead. And this then allows
you to create a bunch

of keyboard shortcuts where you don't have
to remember all the modifiers.

You can just remember caps lock.

And you can still set it where tapping the
caps lock quickly actually

is caps lock if you want that.

But I have my caps lock using the hyper
key app set to shift option command

and control.

So all four of those modifier keys,

when I hold the caps lock button,

it is like I'm holding down those four
modifier keys.

And then that allows me to create keyboard
shortcuts.

And what I did, like in my video,

which I'll link in the show notes,

was I started mapping shortcuts to those
keyboard shortcuts.

And I was basically trying to replicate as
many of Raycast features that I could,

because I was switching back to Spotlight.

And so now I can do caps lock G.

And then actually runs a shortcut.

~ and so very quickly I can have a search
box,

I can type i roll, and I see a bunch of
gif results from GIFI,

and I can click one and it's immediately
on my clipboard.

And then you can run any a bunch of
shortcuts.

You know, you could do caps lock in any
letter,

caps lock in numbers, and now you can
create a bunch of keyboard shortcuts that

are likely not used by other actions and
apps.

You know, you might have paste and match
style,

which is like shift option command v,

but that doesn't include control.

So you can still do the caps lock and you
have twenty six letters that

can be twenty six different things plus
the numbers and it makes keyboard
shortcuts

much more manageable rather than trying to
remember is this one shift option

in this letter or is it shift command in
this?

And so just use caps lock for a bunch of
your your keyboard shortcuts and yeah,

you're good to go. So that's what I did.

That's pretty fun.

I the

So

last one I don't know for sure if I heard
from you guys or not,

but I'll just give you credit,

which is tail scale, which has just
changed my life.

yeah, yeah.

I mean you probably heard it from Casey
Liss on ATP a thousand times.

Probably, but it has changed my life,

so

Listen, David Sparks is all on the tail
scale tip as well,

and I am tempted by it because he says
it's more secure,

~ than using something like screens,

because for screens to work, you do have
to have a port on your network open

to the internet and then screens connect
is running on whatever

Mac you're accessing.

But I just don't like the idea of having
to turn on a VPN when I want

to access my Mac. And with

No, I just leave

it on all the time. You never turn it off.

See, I don't like that though.

W Why?

I don't know, do you ever notice like
change like you're not getting

as fast speeds because you're using this
VPN?

No.

No, because they're c

well, f they're connected. Like,

first of all, both of these two computers
are connected to Ethernet.

And second of all, my MacBook Air,

when I'm traveling or if I'm somewhere
else,

is using my MacBook Pro as an exit node,

which just means that it is entering the
internet from my MacBook Pro,

as if I'm sitting here at my house,

which is an incredibly powerful thing to
be able to do.

So all the internet is going through this
MacBook Pro,

which is just amazing. And I have not
experienced any issues with

with that sort of thing. Literally the
only thing I experience is,

okay, if I'm gonna share a screen and I'm
sitting in my car at

a soccer practice tethering from my phone,

the internet is what it is. Right.

But that's not a tail

Sure.

scale problem. But Tail Scale is making
that possible for me,

which is just amazing that I can be
sitting anywhere and I can

use either the regular screen sharing or I
can use the sc I can use screens

I use screens five. What's kind of neat is
in screens five you can just

log directly into Tail Scale in screens
and it just shows you all

the devices on your Tailscale network.

That's what day that's what David was
saying.

And

It's amazing.

and so what so the benefit versus using a
screens connect is better security?

Well, using screens

connect when you're somewhere else means
you have to have a static

IP address on that device at home.

Right.

Yes.

Well, that's another layer of complication
you'd have to set up.

With Tail Scale you don't because it just
does that for you.

So if I already have that set up with all
my Macs,

would I benefit from that? 'Cause also
feel like if you have the VPN

on all the time, I don't know,

I feel like it would mess with other
things,

but maybe I'm wrong.

Doesn't mess

with anything except well, I'll give you
the one exception in a second.

The other thing it makes it possible to do
is I can be sitting in

my MacBook Air anywhere I want and I can
be running Claude on the Mac.

I can be having the c the Claude code
window open and it is literally working

on the folder because you can tell it
which folds create a remote session.

And Tailscale allows me to basically just
be working as if I'm on that Mac,

which is pretty pretty great. The one
exception is that the VPN we use.

to access the CMS when I need to publish
an article does

right.

not work if Tailscale is active.

There's it's just like too VPNs,

man. You gotta back off. Like I can't

Right, right.

handle this. So I just have to disconnect
from Tailscale for like five minutes

and log into the other.

So if you have so last question.

So if you have Tail Scale on your iPad and
your V and the VPN is active,

so you're accessing your Mac fr at home
and you're at a soccer game,

is all your internet traffic, like if you
go into Safari and you're just browsing

for whatever, is that traffic having to ~
going all the way home first

and then you're accessing the internet or

If you're

using an exit.

Well, if you're on your iPad and you're
using screens,

then the internet is coming from your
house anyway.

That's actually the beautiful thing about
this,

but that's not a tail scale thing,

that's a screens thing.

No but like but like

on that iPad, you just open the Safari app
on the iPad and you

yeah, okay.

go to Apple dot com. Did that traffic have
to go all the way home and then

to the internet?

Only

if you hi if you're telling it to use an
exit node.

If you are, which is an easy which is a
separate toggle from turning to

so you can have tail scale on and not use
an exit node and the answer is no.

Your computers just think they're on the
same network,

essentially. You can also have tail scale
on and use an exit node and choose

one of your devices to be the exit node,

and that in that case, all of your
internet is being funneled through.

But that is in with internet speeds like
what you have.

And what I have. I mean mine are not even
like nearly as fast as Steven's,

but they are more than fast enough.

That is a non issue because the limiting
factor is still either

the tethering from your phone,

right? Like it doesn't

Sure.

going to home first is in i is
inconsequential.

Okay.

But think about the benefits of being
somewhere else and having your internet

Yeah.

come out of your home.

I mean yes, sure.

YouTube TV, streaming,

lots of things. It's free.

All right. I'll finally do it.

I mean, David I know it's free.

It's completely free.

I just have not all right, I'll try.

I'll try it. I ca David Sparks keeps
sending me like every episode like Tail
Scale,

it's amazing.

Yeah.

You can SSH into like the other computer
and and do terminal things into that

computer because it's like you're just on
that computer.

Alright, I'll try Tail Scale. I'll try it.

And then I could delete screens connect
from my Macs,

basically.

You wouldn't need screens connect,

that's correct. You would still obviously
need s screens on the each one of ~ Yeah.

The app. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay. All right, I'll try it. Link to Tail
Scale down in the show notes.

We'll follow up next week. All right,

we're gonna go record a bonus episode.

I wanna talk about my Apple Watch.

And ~ also Alfred. did you know Alfred V
six is coming out?

I think maybe I had heard that.

I did I buy

we will talk about that.

did I yeah, I was like is is it cur it's
currently out,

right? Yeah. I came out September tenth.

Mm, I don't th I don't think V C really?

Well maybe not. Maybe that wasn't just
when they announced it.

I'm sorry. Sorry.

Yeah, that's when they announced

it. It's coming soon. It says this autumn.

Be the first to know. so anyway,

well but we're gonna talk about my my
Apple Watch because I have I have

a few more thoughts about that.

If you want to hear our bonus episode,

the pre-show, you get two plus hours of
primary tech when you support the show.

You get all the feeds. That link is down.

Click the members link and you can save
money on that.

I think I'm probably going that's gonna be
a limited time.

I think maybe I'm gonna stop putting that
link in the show notes and just

I think that's a good idea.

you know, if you just want to support the
show,

I mean it could be five dollars and fifty
dollars a $50 a year.

but if you want to, I'll leave that link
in there one more week,

we'll say, ~ because it is ~ Sectember
first,

Tectober first. And so if you want to
support the show,

we'll say last opportunity to get it for
two dollars and fifty cents

a month or fifty dollars a year,

and you could lock in that price forever.

So become a member there. We'd appreciate
it.

We're gonna go access the bonus episodes,

you get the ad-free versions, primary tech
daily,

all of that. And yeah, we're gonna go
record that bonus episode.

You can leave us a five star rating and
review an Apple Podcast.

We appreciate that, and we'll catch you
next week.