Primary Technology

It's real and it's spectacular.

Welcome to Primary Technology,

the show about the tech news that matters.

It's Apple Week. We have a brand new
foldable iPhone,

a brand new form factor. We're gonna get
into the use cases,

the software, how it's different,

how it's kind of an iPad, kind of an
iPhone.

Plus, Apple Watch will literally be
listening all the time.

The privacy implications of that with live
replay and series recaps.

We did get new AirPods five, what we might
be upgrading to.

And yeah, iPhone eighteen pro is also out
there with a variable aperture.

And Jason's like a real life photographer,

so we'll get his thoughts on that too.

This episode is brought to you by Clean My
Mac and you,

the members who support us directly.

I'm one of your hosts, Steven Robles,

joined by my friend Jason A Ten.

How's it going, Jason?

It it's great. It's been a lot,

Steven.

It's been a huge week. We were talking in
the pre show,

which if you're a member, you get the
unedited feed.

I've been recording hours and hours of
videos.

Jason's been writing writing and writing
all the things.

I was hanging by a thread in that intro so
I wouldn't have to edit it later.

I don't know if you could feel that.

It was like That's

You were it was like a bicycle going down
a hill and you're about

to lose your balance and you just hope you
don't hit a rock.

exactly what was happening in real time.

~ because I have to record a whole other
podcast after this and I want

to get this out before I do that.

So anyway. ~ it's a big week.

Jason, and so we're gonna get right to it.

Do you know what the quote was at the top?

It wasn't a movie. I cheated. It's a T V
show.

Tell me what it was again.

The actual quote is they're real and
they're spectacular.

It is from

~ wait.

Yeah, you know what it is. It just
triggered a sense memory.

I saw it hit you. This is like a nineties
sitcom.

Late eighties nine nineties sitcom.

Can't I can't

I can't place it, but

It'll come

to you. When we're recording the rest of
the show,

I just want you to shout it out the moment
it comes to you.

Ha ha

Even

if we're talking about the most in-depth
iPhone duo topic.

Is it's the West Wing, right?

Just

No, no. When it comes to it's gonna come
to you when it comes to Just shout

it's I I know what it is. Seinfeld.

it out when it comes to you. Anyway,

~

Yeah, it's like Yes, it is. It's Seinfeld.

of course I'm talking about the iPhone
duo,

but you know, that's from the show.

We five star reviews. We're we're past
500,

but keep dropping them. We had no five
star reviews this week,

but we're probably gonna have a bunch of
new listeners today.

We would love for you if you drop a five
star rating review in Apple Podcasts.

And let's get right to it. The event
started with,

I think, one of the most poignant handoffs
between CEOs.

The there was a whole opening montage
filmed on iPhone 18 Pro,

which we're gonna get to later.

We're gonna start off with the duo.

but Tim Cook made a little appearance,

guest appearance, and he said,

No, no, no.

I'm not your guy. That's your guy.

And I thought it was really a nice handoff
to do in the video.

And you know, it's weird. We didn't get
this before,

with the last Apple transition and this
feel it felt right.

It felt good. How'd it feel to you?

Well, I thought I wrote the reason I wrote
about it was b anyway I knew

I was gonna write about it as soon as it
happened and we're like two

and a half minutes into the thing,

right?

Yeah, yeah.

And I like,

this is cool because a lot of people in
our circle were like,

I wonder, you know, Tim Cook will ha walk
out there and he'll hand an iPhone duo

Yeah, yeah.

to John Turnus and they'll talk about it.

I'm like, that's definitely not gonna
happen.

Apple is not a company that's nostalgic
about its

former, you know, whatever employees.

I guess he's still an employee.

But like this felt like the right thing to
do because it acknowledged

Tim Cook and then he handed it off.

It like the most Apple way to do it.

It wasn't too much. So I thought it was
great.

And

I think I says, No, no, no, no,

no, not me. That's your guy. That's your
opener.

I thought it was yeah.

Well and what was what was great

about it though is you recognize his voice
immediately and he starts doing it

Yeah, ex absolutely. Yeah.

and they they scripted it. It was very
good writing.

They scripted it very well and then

Good writing. Yeah.

all of a sudden he's like, No,

that's your guy so

I love whoever wrote that at Apple,

kudos. It was a wonderful transition.

And we're gonna jump to the end of the
event because John Turner's got to do one,

his first event as CEO, and he used his
one more thing.

I feel like he got you know, Apple execs,

they always have to keep their powder dry.

When are we gonna use the one more thing
moniker,

which was the famous Steve Jobs

Yeah.

thing?

When will we be introducing the next
iTunes match?

We've gotta save it for that. Yes,

Was that a one more thing? that's I I

it sure was. It ruins

actually the one more thing, the mis the
mystique of it all,

because they used it for iTunes match.

As long

as it wasn't ping, you know what I mean?

As long as ping wasn't an idea we'll we'll
have to look back.

Was I is iTunes

Mass really like that better of a one more
thing?

I don't want to garner a bunch of comments
and I know this will.

I still pay for iTunes Match every year.

I pay that twenty five dollars.

Do I know why? No. I think Apple Music
covers it all,

but I'm not gonna stop paying for it.

Cause I have a bunch of music in there
that was uploaded during my college days.

Namely anyway, we we don't have time to
get into this.

Yeah, we definitely have time to get into
it.

We got to Yeah.

I'm just saying

I think the iPhone Duo was a little more
worthy than I than iTunes match.

100%. I think he used it well.

Doing it his first one as CEO.

Now we don't have to wonder. Like,

when is the first time John Sword's gonna
do it?

Apple shipped a folding phone.

And this was r rumored. Journalist Mark
German's been talking about this for
months.

All the rumors were correct. It's the
two-camera phone,

titanium, the hinge, Johnny Sarugi,

the Apple Silicon GOAT talked about how
there's like a hundred components

in this hinge. They've minimized the
crease as much as possible.

I want to show a couple clips from some of
the creators that are on

the ground and we'll link them all in the
description as well.

I do want to point out Apple had a
hilarious TikTok,

which whoever does their TikTok game is
different than whoever does

all their other social media. There's the
do you see this,

Jason? This is the making of

Yes.

iPhone Duo. It's a romantic dinner table
and it's iPad mini sitting across from

the iPhone Air. And I just have to say,

that's pretty good. That's

That's pretty amazing.

pretty good.

but that is what it is. ~ you know,

when you look about what are iPhones made
out of,

the iPhone eighteen pro and seventeen pro
line is aluminum,

the iPhone Air and now Duo is titanium.

When you open the iPhone Duo, that screen
size is like an iPad mini.

It's seven something inches, which is,

turns out, IMAX ratio. So you can watch
the Odyssey literally as Nolan intended.

I actually use that word on purpose on the
iPhone Duo once it comes out.

So there you go. It should come pre shi
pre loaded with the Odyssey.

With yeah, see.

Just open it up.

Okay.

The first time you open it just starts
playing the Odyssey before you even

set it up. It just plays it.

Yeah, so

you know you pull I just set up a new Mac,

you rip the little paper thing off the
screen and it goes boom but on

the iPhone do it just starts playing the
openings credits of the Odyssey.

No, it just plays it just plays Odysseus
on the boat screaming at the sirens.

It just go it just goes right to that
scene.

~ or the pig scene, but I can't talk about
it.

I feel like we can't there's so many
videos and great content out there about

the specs, like you were saying in our pre
show.

And so you said you I've watched every
video I could find on YouTube about

the iPhone duo until late last night.

So I want to share them with you because
one

An interesting aspect, and I don't think
any of the videos covered this

specifically, is the inner display is
nanotexture.

It is a matte finish, and you can tell in
all these videos,

it is very much not a glossy screen,

but the nanotexture. This is Brian Tong's
video,

which I'll link below, which one helps
reduce the visibility of the crease

in the middle. But also this works with
Apple Pencil with USB-C

and that nanotexture, at least from my
iPad Pro experience,

feels really good. But yeah, that very
much nanotexture.

I know what'd you What do you think about
the nanotexture?

You love nanotexture.

I do love nanotexture. It is interesting
and I feel like the main reason they

did this is to hide the seam of the
crease.

Like I d I

Right.

I don't know 'cause no other iPhone has it
and there's nothing particularly

different about a duo that would warrant
nanotexture over like a normal

iPad mini for matter. Like you can't get
an nano texture on an iPad mini.

So it is kind of interesting. I don't know
if it's just meant to feel like

a more premium experience. I don't know.

What do you think the Venn diagram is of
people who are going to buy this

who have a USB C Apple Pencil?

Yeah, that's this is what I'm saying.

Well, I'm gonna have to buy a USB C Apple
pencil to use with this.

It doesn't work with the pencil pro.

It yeah.

And the reason is because you can't

magnetically attach it to the side.

Like that there is a reason for this.

Right, and and that's underst like

I understand the technical limitations.

I imagine one day we might get like an
Apple Pencil Mini that works with this.

Maybe, maybe we'll get it. So yeah,

I'm gonna have to buy a whole Apple Pencil
just to use with this.

Wait, why would you buy an Apple Pencil
user this?

Jason, I'm going to try editing podcasts
on this thing.

And it's going to be wonderful.

I cannot wait. Because to be real,

I have edited many podcasts on my phone
using the Farad app when I'm traveling,

if I'm on the go. We do a daily show.

So I do podcast editing every day.

I've edited full episodes, not of this
show,

but I used to do Apple Insider House
traveling and I was working full time

elsewhere. I would I've edited full
podcast episodes on the phone.

And I don't prefer that. I really enjoy
doing it on the iPad,

especially with the Apple Pencil.

And I spent a year editing the Apple
Insider show on iPad Mini.

So I know exactly what that feels like.

And the fact that I could have a phone in
my pocket that I open up and edit

a multi track podcast with Apple Pencil on
that device in my pocket seems really

interesting to me. And I want to try it.

That's why.

That's a f that is a reasonable use case
and it does highlight where

the iPhone Duo really sits, which is cause
somebody was like talking about

how no one wants a device that's this
size.

There's nothing to use a foldable device
for.

I'm like, really? Cause I think Apple
sells a lot of iPad minis

and that's just this. And if you bought an
iPhone Pro and an iPhone and

an and an iPad mini, you basically got the
price of an iPhone Duo,

right? Like

Ryan, let me ask

you let me ask you right here.

Do we think the iPad mini is dead?

Because this

No.

no?

Definitely not. It has a totally different
audience of people.

This is just for people who want both.

I have an iPad mini and I very rarely use
it except it's my sits on my nightstand,

usually dead because it does not hold a
charge.

And so I have to charge it up anytime I
want to use it.

But it's my sit on the back patio device.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's like

here's a device when I don't want to do
anything else.

It's basically a glorified Kindle.

It's a Kindle with the Apple News app and
a Safari so that I can like

Hm.

do that kind of thing on it, but I don't
want to be distracted

by it's actually perfect because the
Instagram.

app on an iPad sucks. So I'm not gonna be
distracted by that.

No, no. It is bad.

Right? Like it's so terrible. And

so I just it's a good it's a good device
for that.

And there's a lot of people for whom
that's they're never gonna s that they're
gonna

just keep their iPad mini and their 17E
iPhone or whatever.

Or like I there's probably a lot of people
who have iPad minis

who don't have iPhones.

Yeah, that's fair. Well, let's see if we
get an updated iPad mini anytime soon.

That would be interesting because this
display,

which is a pro motion display,

so you get 120 hertz. The inner display,

which is over seven inches, is also an
always-on display.

iPad Mini has none of those. iPad Mini has
never had pro motion.

Obviously it doesn't have an always on
display,

but this means Apple could technically
make a seven inch display that's pro
motion,

and that iPad mini would go nuts.

I would love that iPad mini. We'll see
that.

I mean it would be twelve

I don't know if would want.

hundred dollars.

Well, we'll see. Yeah, that's the other
thing.

You can get iPad mini on sale for like
500,

and this is a $2,000 device. So I feel
like the software story to me

has been the most interesting experiences.

I've seen other creators posting about it
because this is this is iOS,

but this is a very different iOS,

and it is not iPad OS either.

There is an entirely new paradigm that's
going to

People are gonna have to learn if they
want to use this device

for multi-touch gestures, for
multitasking,

like you can pin two apps together by
swiping down between them when

you have them on split screen.

And even the dock being on the right side,

the status bar, which I was going to gloat
and say,

there's no battery percentage anywhere on
this device.

and say battery percentage off,

long live battery percentage off.

But if you watch the little animation
during the event,

the Wi-Fi symbol in the top right corner.

Of the iPhone Duo display that's actually
cellular connectivity,

Wi-Fi, and battery all in one.

And so it seemed like that semicircle on
top,

even though in all the videos it's just
full,

which might be an Apple software trick.

They just want it to look full on all
these demo devices.

~ apparently that's the battery
percentage.

So I I still haven't found one that
actually shows it depleted,

but we'll see. But yeah, there is battery.

I don't know if you'll be able to turn
battery percentage off.

It'd be hilarious if that toggle is just
not even on,

like available.

As God

intended.

Well yeah, I would say that. So this way
you can it's just off all the time.

You don't get battery percentage.

No, no, no. It's gonna be on all the time.

No, it doesn't you don't see there's no
battery percentage number anywhere

on the iPhone duo screen. So I I think
it's just off.

~ this

We'll see.

one's a little depleted. So this was
Nickyus Molina's video,

which I'll play in a moment and I'll link
all the stuff below because they're really

good. I think Nicky is actually did one of
the best he did like

a full on walkthrough of the device.

His video is almost ten minutes long,

where a lot of other creators like two or
five minutes.

But you can see this semicircle in the top
right corner of the phone

and it is slightly depleted. So that is
the battery measurement around

the Wi-Fi symbol.

Yeah.

To be fair, if this iPhone, my iPhone had
that indicator,

I might not need the number. This just
indicator is completely useless.

This the semicircle and the iPhone do it
is it gives you a much more accurate

Yeah.

picture

of of the percentage. one thing one other
physical thing before we talk more about

kind of the software, this is the first
time Apple has done an under display
camera.

And so when you have it open, the you turn
on the center stage camera

or the front facing camera, it is under
the screen.

It will disappear when you go back home
and you kind of see it go back.

But in some shots, like right here in
Brian Tong's shot,

You can still see that whole cutout.

Now, when you're actually holding the
device in person,

it probably won't be as obvious,

I think, just in this lighting and how we
you know,

j whatever it's doing right now.

~ but yeah, under display fa under display
camera on this and

on the iPhone eighteen's Pro, Pro and Pro
Max,

the face ID is actually under the display
as well.

It actually moved to the corner rather
than being in the dynamic island.

That's what one of the things that offered

Or allowed the dynamic on to be smaller.

So those two things, under display
FaceTime camera and under display
FaceTime,

I feel like this could mean one day,

maybe for the twentieth anniversary
iPhone,

we could technically have an all display
front and still have a camera

and face ID and no hole punch at all.

I thought that was interesting.

Maybe.

Yeah,

I mean they had to like do that because
otherwise it wouldn't I I I I feel like

the main reason for it is it wouldn't be
like I was going to

say centered because but the actual I your
actual camera on your phone

is not centered either. There's

It's not centered, yeah. Right,

the whole dynamic island though is.

So you just treat

right.

it as a whole thing. So but I think it's
interesting.

I don't know, does that seem necessary to
you?

Like what do you why do you for real,

why?

I feel like the Dynamic Island has become

such a part of the iPhone that they don't
need to,

like you're saying, I feel like.

But on the other hand, if when you're
opening it the f the context is an iPad,

which has never had that. Right.

And the the camera for

Right on the duo, yeah.

an iPad has been on the bezel,

In the bezel. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

which this doesn't

really have room for that. Also it would
be s

There's no room.

it'd be foldable. A foldable camera would
be sweet.

You know right, right. So the software
story,

the one demo that all these videos run
through,

and it seems like the one Apple partnered
with the closest,

is the Netflix demo. So you can do things
like with the hinge,

put it in a ninety degree format,

the iPhone Duo. You can have the video
playing on top,

and then you have full-on controls on the
bottom.

They're left blacked out, and then if you
touch or start swiping on that half

of the screen that's on the bottom,

You can have the play bar, you can have
the play and pause.

And there's a my goodness, I don't know
what happened there.

And there's also the Netflix demo where on
the outer screen you could have

the vertical Netflix. And then once you
open it up,

it will actually reformat the video to
fill the inner screen.

I'm curious how many apps I'm it's
surprising it's Netflix and not Disney,

honestly. I feel like in ~ Apple Vision
Pro and a lot of times Apple will work
with

like the Disney Plus app. Like the Disney
Plus app has immersive environments.

As does HBO, Netflix does not.

And Netflix doesn't even have an app on
the Apple Vision Pro.

But for the iPhone Duo, Apple partnered
with Netflix and they

did all these interesting things with the
outer and inner display

and the controls on the bottom.

But this is like a whole new paradigm for
using an Apple device.

Yeah, and I I don't know that they
partnered with Netflix.

They just said, Hey, we're doing this
thing.

Do you want to refresh your app to to work
here?

And the fact that they didn't do it for
the Vision Pro is just 'cause like

you and I are the only people who

Yeah, that's fair.

have them and you don't use yours.

Hey, listen, listen. I put it on the other
day to watch an MLB game,

at least 15 minutes of it. And that was
pretty fun.

Okay, great. Steven

only uses his Vision Pro on airplanes.

I use them everywhere except

Exactly. Did you bring it on that road
trip by the way?

I sure did. I

did not use it though, but I did bring it.

I

Wait, you didn't use it at all?

didn't end up using it. That road trip was
like a experience,

Stephen. We'll talk about sometime.

Okay, okay, very good. Okay, very

good. ~ one a software interest thing
though about the keyboard.

So if you've ever typed touch typed on
iPad in vertical portrait mode,

you know it can be a little it's
difficult.

You know, if you have the keyboard all
together,

you have to really stretch your thumbs
out,

especially if a larger iPad. There is the
split keyboard,

and so it's a similar issue here with the
duo,

but Apple has given you the option,

and this is

Your average consumer's YouTube video that
I'll link below.

There is a full width keyboard when you
have the iPhone Duo open.

So it's a super wide keyboard.

And then there is the option to split it.

So you can have it closer to each thumb.

I don't know if you've ever like typed
with the split keyboards.

I always find the split ones very
difficult to use for me.

Like I can't, my brain doesn't work like
that.

And so you can rotate iPhone Duo to that
vertical orientation and then

Do the full keyboard, two thumb type,

and it'll probably go better. But yeah,

I I'm probably not a split keyboard guy.

Do you ever do you ever do that?

No, I don't like split keyboard at all.

But did you notice I feel I this could be
because I was doing six things

at once while I was watching. So if I
missed it,

I'm sorry. I feel like the only time they
showed the duo in

a vertical orientation was when there was
like a video with controls at the bottom.

Th it's like Apple really wants you to
think of this as a wide format device.

Do you know what I mean? Like did you see
I don't remember Apple really pushing this

as a device you would open up and then
rotate ninety degrees and use like

in the normal orientation you would an
iPhone.

Does that make sense?

I understand what you're saying.

They do have like there was a video
throughout well,

throughout the event, but there was I'm
gonna try and scrub to it.

They have a bunch of scenes of people
using the iPhone duo like walking around

the house or whatever. And they do show it
in multiple vertical formats.

Mm.

One of them is even like iMessage,

just big vertical. ~ and they do I think
show it with a maybe a video and iMessage.

I'm gonna try and find it. Also,

shout out Crick Federigi. I think

I don't know if we've seen him at an
iPhone event in years,

right?

Yeah, he's not typically in the September
event.

Yeah, so that was interesting.

But there's again a lot of software going
on with the iPhone Duo.

So there's the ~ towards the end of it,

I can't find I I don't want to spend the
time just scrubbing to it,

but there's a point people are walking
around

Yeah, don't do that.

the house and they're using iMessage
vertically.

And interestingly, they they even show a
moment where someone's watching Apple

TV vertically. And it seems like the
iPhone Duo will automatically crop

or resize to fill the display if you turn
it.

That direction.

Sure.

So I think you can do it. And they they
show it with the Apple Pencil vertically

Yeah, you definitely can do it.

as well. But yeah, yeah, yeah.

Sorry, just to be clear. I'm not saying
that you

but it did seem like well there you go,

Here here it is. Thank

you found it. Great job.

you. I actually found a left. And this is
the iMessage ~ format,

which this is weird too. there were c
MKBHD mentioned this in his video.

The dock, when the iPhone duo was closed,

is on the right hand side, and there
doesn't seem to be an option or setting

to move it to the left hand side.

So left or right-handed, you have to use
it on the right.

also the dock can't hold any more than
four icons.

MKBHD tried adding a fifth, you can't add
a fifth.

But ~ it's like the

UI is very much like you're gonna use your
right thumb to do doc stuff

and access things like the control center
or whatever.

But in this shot, which is during the live
Apple event,

this is at one hour, two minutes and
fifty-five seconds,

if you want to look it up. This is a
vertical orientation of iMessages with

the inner display and the conversation
tabs is on the left.

And so there seems to be this weird and
you know,

this is a first device, like we don't even
have it in hand yet.

But it's like, okay, is the paradigm like
you're on the right hand side you're gonna

have the doc controls message
conversations,

is it on the left or is it depend on the
context?

So it's gonna be interesting, you know,

see if that changes before launch or or
how that works.

I

don't think that'll be weird for people
though,

because a lot of people put their Mac doc
on the right hand side.

I don't understand it, but they do.

And there's a difference it and this is
the way messages you're used to,

right? Like you're y like it would be
weird to suddenly switch that

to move the messages

Yeah, that's true.

wherever 'cause you're j messages is the
same on every device.

You have p you have the options on the
left and then you have the stuff

on the right, so

Well, but honestly, like it's n this is a
f new like kind of

way to display messages. Having this
conversation in a thin line on

the edge and then your conversation
bubbles large,

taking up probably four fifths of the
screen.

That's not on any other Apple device.

Sure

it is. It's on your Mac. Just drag the s
just drag the divider over

and that's exactly what it looks like.

Hold on. I'm I'm here on my Mac.

I'm dragging the divider over.

~ shoot, you're right.

Yeah, it's been that way for a very long
time,

Steven. They just they

Ha shoot.

just took that so that it doesn't take so
much space.

Like that's not new.

I was already gonna award you being right
points when we got to the Apple Watch,

Okay. Okay.

and now I have to do it again.

Now I have to do it again. ~

Neela Patel, he was on the live verge
cast,

he said he could not figure out how to get
the video to split like

it does right here. It seems like if you
have video and picture in picture,

you can if you're split screening an app
or you have another app on screen,

you can hit the expand video control and
then you have like a half and half

or this this feels more like two thirds.

Sixty, forty,

maybe, seven yeah.

60 40 split

well and the video aspect ratio.

I think they're trying to keep the video
aspect ratio.

Yeah.

But being able to to do that two upside
and drag and drop drag and drop

has been on iPhone for a long time.

But it was undiscoverable because in order
to do drag and drop,

you need two fingers on the screen.

You know, if you wanted to drag a photo
from the photos app to messages,

you have to tap and hold the photo with
one thumb,

start dragging it so it's moving around,

and then swipe home with an another
finger.

Go to another app and then you can drop
it.

And that mechanism on iPhone, I rarely,

if ever, used it and didn't make much
sense.

But now, ~ drag and drop makes total sense
because on iPhone Duo,

you can have photos on one side,

messages on the other, just drag photos
into a conversation,

and yeah, it'll work great. So drag and
drop on iPhone finally makes sense.

Which what you just described for most
people makes no sense because

if you're in your photos app you can just
hit the share sheet and you

can just send it to a message or
something.

Or the way that

Yeah.

sane people do it is you take a screenshot
and while it's down at the bottom,

you hold that and drag it to whatever you
want to do and that works perfectly.

No,

that's like no, that's the that's the
janky way to do it,

That works perfect. Every time.

No, no. No, I'm not gonna crop it.

because then got black bars and you're
gonna spend time cropping.

But the No, that's ~ that just pains me.

I'm just gonna send it to the people and
let it be their problem.

Hang on, I gotta send Steven some stuff
real quick.

I'm taking away all being right points
because you are so wrong about this.

No. Wait,

Well and also

I'm not saying that's the best way to do
it.

I'm saying that that is the way people use
drag and drop on the iPhone.

People do use well, that's how people
share stuff is via screenshots,

at least if you're over a certain age.

Yeah, I'm not I'm not necessarily
advocating for it.

But anyway. You're not condoning this.

I'm just simply saying

Okay.

that this is the way sane people are doing
it.

They might be wrong.

Sure.

Anyway, the drag and drop thing also works
like if you're in Safari and

you see an image maybe in an article or
you did an image search,

you can tap and drag that image over into
a conversation so you don't have

to save it to your camera role.

So there are other options. You can also
drag a message conversation

to reminders or to notes. But anyway,

we don't have to get into it. ~ bottom
line,

I'm going to have infinite content this
year because I'm gonna have

one thousand tip videos on how to use
iPhone Duo with various gestures.

So yeah, I'm excited about that.

I'm excited about that.

I will be really

interested, n this is no shade against
you,

at how well those videos do because I
still don't think that many people

are gonna be buying the duo.

So this ~ I'm curious about this.

Let's just talk about it now. I was

All right.

not thinking I would be tempted by a
foldable phone because the phone

is good already. And there's a bunch of
concessions that if you go with

the iPhone Duo, that you have to give up
versus a Pro model if you were

on the Pro model. And actually,

let me hit that first because I think
that's important.

If you go with the iPhone Duo versus the
iPhone 18 Pro,

or even the 17 Pro h has some of these
features.

Here's what you're giving up. There's no
face ID on the iPhone Duo.

It's touch ID, which is probably fine,

but there's no face ID.

It's totally gonna be fine.

It's totally fine. There's no action
button on the iPhone Duo.

So if you're love the action button,

I use it for shortcuts. There's no action
button.

You give up the telephoto lens.

The two you get two cameras on the iPhone
Duo.

It is the main 48 megapixel and a 48
megapixel ultra wide.

They said telephoto during the event,

and there were several creators that said
it has a telephoto in their videos.

It is not a telephoto lens. They're just
talking about the 2X digital zoom

or the sensor cropping. So you get a main
camera and an ultra wide.

Those are the two. So there's no telephoto
lens.

There's no spatial photos, which is
interesting.

You can't capture spatial photos on the
iPhone Duo.

No Pro Raw. So again, that's a pro
feature.

No pro camera controls. So in the event,

Apple announced all the manual white
balance,

F stop. Obviously, that's a variable
aperture thing.

The histogram, there's a manual focus
feature,

which we'll get to. There's no pro camera
controls on the iPhone Duo.

No spatial video. So, like no spatial
photos,

you can't capture spatial video on the
iPhone Duo.

There's no Pro Res video. There's only a
two-mic recording array.

The iPhone Pro has four mic array.

There's no LIDAR on the iPhone Duo,

which is interesting. Again, who uses
LIDAR?

I don't know how many people use the
Measure app a lot,

but there's no LIDAR on the iPhone Duo.

And again, you it's not compatible with a
lot of MagSafe accessories like MagSafe

wallets. So

That's the laundry list of things that
concessions you have to make if

you want to go iPhone Duo versus iPhone
Pro,

like the eighteen.

And you don't

get the Apple reference image.

And

And you don't get Apple reference him,

thank you.

I believe that the iPhone Pro still has
generally better battery life.

Yes. As far as like the time that Apple is
saying,

like video out video play hours a day or
whatever.

So those are all the things you don't get
with the iPhone Duo.

And all of that being said, I'm looking
here at my 17 Pro Max and I'm like,

I might give all that up. Because I think
I do want a folding iPhone.

I think I want a larger screen to run can
do my project management app.

It's gonna look great on that inner screen
and all the

Ha ha.

columns. I am on the go.

A bit, and I always have to ask myself:

is this a moment where I want to bring my
iPad to do something like edit

a daily podcast episode? Or do I try to do
everything from my phone?

And the idea that I might not have to make
that choice,

I can just take this phone with me.

And as much as I love I love the telephoto
camera on my iPhone,

there's some very specific use cases I use
it,

like my kids' dance recitals or my wife's
concerts.

I like

getting as close as I can using that
telephoto lens and it looks great.

If we're on a trip, I will use that
telephoto lens all the time,

but it's not something I use daily.

And that feature that Apple officially
announced at the event,

which is the hand off your cellular plan.

It's like we're gonna make it as easy as
possible to have two iPhones,

your weekend iPhone and your work iPhone.

It's like I might give those up for the
iPhone Duo and holding this case from
Moft.

Moft sent me like a prototype of their
iPhone Duo case.

Which is I think this is the size.

I don't know. I'm really tempted by this.

How what about you? How do you feel about
it?

it's hard because I do like foldable
phones and I am really excited about

one that runs iOS and not Android.

And I've used ~ probably a half dozen at
this point,

Pixel folds and galaxy folds at different
times.

And they're all great, except for the fact
that Android is just not good

on a large screen.

It's just not. Like I Android has many
benefits over iOS.

If that's the thing that you care about,

fine. It's just not good on a larger
screen.

Cause and the reason is not Google's
fault.

It's just that apps are not designed for
that.

It's just not. It's just the way that it
is.

Apple has the advantage of they just
created all the all their first party apps

are going to be incredible. And they're
going to make it relatively easy

for developers to adopt that as well.

So that's all great. I just think that.

I don't know if I'm gonna be willing to
give up like the camera

is the most important thing to me.

And I don't know that I'm gonna be willing
to give up that because

and maybe it's just as a photographer,

I just care about that. Like like the
iPhone Air is amazing.

Not being able to shoot pro raw when you
want to,

like, that's tough.

Like not being able to do like the like
the I use the Adex more than

I should on this on this iPhone Pro.

Like and you're not gonna be able to get
that quality on the duo.

And so also I don't wanna stand there with
this little chunky thing

to take pictures. That just feels weird.

And there was this was mentioned Neela I
mentioned on the VergeCast first,

but like concerts, people holding up their
phone to capture

Yeah.

video of concerts, the iPhone duo is gonna
be just insufferable.

This seven inch screen. Everyone's gonna
be holding up an iPad basically to capture

Not I mean, again, there won't I just
don't think there's gonna be that many

of them in the wild. I could be wrong.

I think it's gonna be great. Two

Here.

thousand bucks is a lot though for a
phone.

You can lease it for a hundred bucks a
month if you would like.

That is an option. That

You should not, but yes, you can.

is an option. I one thing you can do,

okay, is go to photos on your Mac.

It has to be a Mac. Create a smart album.

And I'll have to get the details of what
smart album,

what are the what the lens is of the
telephoto on your iPhone.

Because you can create a smart album and
then see all the photos you took with that

four X, eight X ~ lens on your iPhone 17
Pro or Pro Max in one place.

And you could see how how often did I
actually use this camera in the last year?

And when you look at that smart album,

like I'm I'm looking at a the album I took
before,

which is with the five X lens of I think
the 16 Pro.

And like there's some cool photos here,

and I'm glad I have them.

But it's not a thi a camera I use all the
time.

Now, we'll have to talk about the variable
aperture when we get to

the 18 Pro because I think that is
another,

you know, aspect of do I want the best
camera in my pocket possible all the time?

But it's really when I'm on trips,

when I'm on family trips, and I'm at
special events.

That's when I use the telephoto camera.

And so there's a I know when I'm going to
use it.

And will the benefit of having a larger
iPhone

screen, maybe even with Apple Pencil,

like if you love jotting notes by hand,

like all those remarkable devices,

like the remarkable move that you have,

like people are now gonna have the option
to do that with their phone.

This is the first time an iPhone has ever
had Apple Pencil support.

And so I th I think this will foldable
phones in the i Android world have a very,

very tiny market share. All that data's
been out there.

I think this I think we're gonna see more
of these than you think.

I think we're gonna see these out there.

So for context, estimate estimates are
that these are like analyst estimates,

is that an Apple could sell roughly ten
million of them.

Okay. Now Apple also has said that they're
gonna be s well the rumor

the reporting from Mark German is that
they're that they're gonna

be supply constrained. So they may not
sell ten million of if they can't make

ten million of ~ I think the estimates on
the iPhone Air,

I I know I read this, I don't know how
accurate it is,

but the estimates were like that they sold
less than a million of Okay.

So more than that, but how many how many
iPhones do they ship a year?

Isn't it like sixty million or something?

No, it's like two hundred and fifty
million worldwide.

~ I see, okay.

Okay,

so this is a very, very, very small
percentage of that,

right? It's less than

Yeah.

half of it's like less than five percent
of iPhones.

So what I'm saying is I just don't think
you're gonna s think about

all the people who get new iPhones.

Less than

Yeah.

five percent of them are gonna have this.

And then there's all the people who don't
get iPhones every year,

right? Like so I'm just saying I don't
think we're gonna see very many of them.

I don't think the concerts is gonna be a
problem because there's not gonna

be that many of these in the wild.

Well, the the only other the only other
data point that I'll say here,

so maybe I can get getting right points
one day,

is the iPhone and having the newest model
is a bit of a status symbol

in other countries as well as here in the
US.

And the iPhone 18 Pro and Pro Max look
exactly like the 17 Pro and Pro Max.

There's different colors, so you can g

The cherry colour. That's why that exists.

I know that's why that exists,

but if you just feel like

The temperature on social media and what
people are excited about.

People are not excited about the eighteen
pro.

And I think just the fact that people are
excited about the iPhone Duo

is going to encourage people to get it so
they can show it off.

So they can use it in the public.

And so I think we're I think you're gonna
see more of these than you think.

Now it is a g the price is prohibitive to
some people,

and so that is gonna be a a factor that
holds them back.

But I don't know. I think we're gonna see
a lot of these,

honestly.

Hold on. Okay.

Steven is my friend. So I'm about to say
something that makes it sound like

I'm criticizing Steven, but I'm not.

In what world is it a status s symbol?

People who make YouTube videos and either
get review units or buy them

and return them. In the real world,

for the most people outside of like,

I don't know, some circles in New York and
on the West Coast,

like I don't think that this thing is a
status symbol for most.

People will think it's cool,

Yeah.

but I think about everyone I know,

I can't think of someone I know that
doesn't make

content for a living, which is a very
small number of people.

It's just a large number of people that
are in the same sphere

Yeah.

as us. I that's what I'm saying is like I
just don't think that we'll see.

Keep count.

I guess here here's what I'm saying.

Even

if it doesn't get wide adoption because of
the cost,

when you see famous people at tennis games
and you

see music stars at basketball games,

I think over the next year you're gonna
see more iPhone duos than Pro Max's.

And whether that actually converts people
to wanting to buy it this holiday season,

I I don't know for sure. Because again,

the price could be prohibitive.

But that's what I mean, like, what are you
gonna see?

'Cause that's always the the shtick is
like whenever there's a famous person

or there's like group of famous people or
there's some famous person's taking

a selfie, it's always an iPhone.

You never see him holding a Samsung
Galaxy,

whatever. It's always an iPhone.

Well, I don't know. Google just handed out
a bunch of phones to to people

They use it the they use it the two months
after their event and then they go back.

at its event and they're gonna switch.

What that's okay.

Okay. You know

what I mean? When Jimmy Fallon pulls out a
phone on the Tonight Show,

it's an iPhone. He's not using a Galaxy
anything or a Pixel in January.

You know what I mean? Like it's just not
it's just not.

And so what phone will that be come early
twenty twenty seven?

And I w I think we might see more iPhone
phones in that context.

And again, like to your point,

it might not convert to people buying it
more,

like it might not be wide.

spread amongst the masses, but I think
we're gonna see more of it

in the cultural oeuvre, we'll say.

I cannot wait to revisit this in January.

I'm making a note.

Okay, we'll revisit. We'll revisit in
January.

Come come those. All last thing on the
iPhone Duo,

then we have to talk about the Apple
Watch.

The

Yes.

cases for the iPhone Duo are complicated.

So Apple released this iPhone Duo folio
with a kickstand.

Chance Miller at nine and five Mac said
it's so cool.

He got it in person. Nowhere do they show
someone using this phone closed

in this case.

Because I think that front flap is just
gonna be flapping in the wind.

And I don't think Apple wants that
anywhere right now.

And so cases that cover the entire phone
are going to be odd because it

has to open to use the front screen and
then open again to use the inner display.

And so I'm very curious how case makers
get around this.

I've seen some like from D brand that
there's these kind of like border type
cases.

And Apple has one of those too.

It's like a silicone case that you can

It goes around all the edges and you can
leave it on all the time

and it doesn't cover anything.

But it's going to be an interesting
accessory season to see like what

how does all this stuff work? ~ so we'll
see.

We'll see. And it yeah.

Did they put I

I don't know, I didn't even look it this
up.

But did they put it should have magnets
the way that the iPad does so that

the smart folio just stays closed on it?

And it seems to have that. Like this
doesn't go around the edges of the iPhone
Duo.

This seems to just be magnets that it's
attached to the back.

and it does, the iPhone Duo does have
MagSafe,

to be clear. You'll be able to charge it
with a puck.

It is not compatible with MagSafe wallets.

And it does not s like if you go to the
MagSafe wallet and you go

to the ~ compatibility, iPhone Duo is not
here.

Because of that squat shape, the MagSafe
wallet is not going to fit.

And so we're gonna see a whole other line
of accessories for the iPhone

Duo because it has to fit in that tiny
space below the cameras.

So so we'll see. And cards, I mean,

your driver's license is not gonna change
shape because of the iPhone Duo,

so

That would be amazing. That's why they
spent all of this effort with digital

driver's licenses.

The All these years they were playing the
long game.

That is a

very long game. I mean, I the reporting
that I read was that Turnus

has been working on this thing for ten
years.

So it's not out of the realm of
possibility that they really have been
playing

a long game here.

That's amazing. Okay, we have to get to
the Apple device that

is actually always listening to you going
forward.

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All right, Jason, this is where I award
you being right points,

because for many years you have talked
about many years that we've been doing
this

show, the two years we've been doing this
show.

You talk about that the Apple Watch is the
perfect AI device.

And when this happened in the keynote,

I was just freaking out. I wish I was
doing a live stream so people could have
seen

because Apple just took a full on shot at
all those random

AI hardware devices.

That promised to record audio and give you
transcriptions of what it recorded.

Apple Watch is just gonna do that now,

built in. So, real quick, before we get to
the audio intelligence features,

there is an all-new health sensing system
that is going to capture your heart rate

every five seconds, I believe.

60 times more. It's going to be measuring
your heart rate.

You also get heart rate variability,

more accurate readings there. And Apple
also took a shot at Whoop

and all those other accessories.

They didn't mention them specifically.

But during the keynote, they're like,

we tested this in labs against all the
other wearables,

and Apple Watch is the most accurate heart
reading wearable you can get.

And so a very loud subtweet, you could
say,

at all the health devices trying to say,

talk about accuracy, things like rings.

Apple Watch is saying, Apple is saying the
Apple Watch is still king when

it comes to accuracy and heart rate.

Also, there's a whole new

readiness score and a vitals the vitals
app you can see during the day.

You'll be able to see how ready are you as
far as like pace yourself today.

And it's gonna take your activity into
account,

how you slept, ~ like your heart rate,

all that data. You're gonna get a
readiness score every day to let you know
like

how ready you are. That's why a lot of
people wear the aura ring.

The aura ring gives that kind of how,

you know, your what state your body is in
and how ready is it for exertion.

You're gonna get that right on your Apple
Watch.

You can check it ~

during the day as well. And you're also
gonna get some interesting features like

your age, like your d health age versus
your actual age.

And so if like your fitness and health is
~ at a certain level,

it might tell you like you're actually a
few years quote unquote older than

you actually are. And so that longevity
and health stuff,

you can take assessments in the iPhone
app,

all of those were interesting.

And it's still just bottom line,

if you want health heart tracking

the notifications for that kind of stuff,

it feels like Apple Watch is still the
thing.

So health is still number one.

Yeah?

Yeah, no, I agree. I mean and I think that
that I know that there

are people who will pick knits with that
claim.

Is that I don't even know if that's what
you're supposed say.

Yeah, yeah, I think that's it.

But like because

That you got

wow, just pulled that one out.

I don't know. But

That's good.

because I know that people that is
actually one of the things that people

typically uses a criticism of the Apple
Watch is like I use this Garmin thing

and my heart rate says this and I use the
Apple Watch and it says this

and and then I use one of those things
just and I've had this experience where

you stick the thing on your finger,

which t traditionally

Yeah. Blood oxygen.

are the most accurate I think in those

Yeah, yeah.

cases. And they all are different.

It's like how are you all different?

They are all different.

But Apple has definitely s has I think
they have for a long time really
positioned

the Apple Watch as a health thing,

right? They have just leaned all the way
into that.

This actually feels like they took it to
another level because they really wanted

to focus on like how they are improving
the sensors and how that that's gonna

translate to better information about
health.

And I think I mean, lean into what you
got,

man. That's like what people think about
the Apple Watch.

And I think that I think it almost feels
as though they're a little bit like sour

on the idea that people are like,

Well, the Apple Watch is great as a down
the road middle of the,

you know, whatever consumer thing that
also has some health benefits.

But if you're a serious athlete,

come on, you gotta get one of these other
things.

I remember AT

He Marco had this whole long like segment
on picking an picking a watch device

Yeah, for the marathon.

for this walk he

was doing or whatever. And a lot of people
who go down that path

end up with something other than the Apple
Watch.

And I think Apple really wants to push
back on that narrative and really have
people

lean into the idea that the Apple Watch is
the best device for tracking health.

Right. All right, before we get to the
audio stuff,

ceramic is back. If you missed the Apple
Watch series five ceramic finish,

that was the only other Apple Watch model
that had it,

you can get it.

And you can get it in blue ceramic,

right?

Blue

ceramic or pearl white. Jason,

I'm gonna be real. I ordered the Pearl
White.

I ordered the Pearl White.

You did? You ordered a new Apple Watch,

Steven.

I did. Listen, I'm still on the Ultra 2.

And you know, having the blood oxy or the
yeah,

Yeah, blood oxygen.

is the blood oxygen

the blood oxygen thing, like whatever.

I never look at that number anyway.

So I want like first of all,

battery life on the Ultra 4. Apple is
advertising two days,

so you're gonna get better battery life on
the Ultra 4 and the Series 12.

The ceramic finish, I I missed getting the
ceramic Apple Watch back in the day.

And I don't think I could afford it at the
time either.

So I did not want to miss it this time.

So I got the ceramic Apple Watch.

but yeah, you can get that. The Ultra 4 is
also out there.

But we gotta talk about

I don't like the ceramic just so know.

I know I'm just my I just don't I don't
love that as a as a watch thing.

It feels too precious to me.

O boss.

I'm sure

that it's not. ~ just to be clear.

I Apple's got pretty good material science
peoples.

I'm sure it's fine. It just feels kind of
precious to me and the

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

app and I just know that like and I'm well
I'm actually not rocking anything today

because I don't want it listening to me,

but

Wow.

but actually I just forgot. ~

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

but the the Apple Watch the Ultra Two,

I it'd be hard for me to upgrade from
that,

to be honest. Yeah.

Really?

Why it's like why I don't know.

I don't know what

B well, especially considering what we're
about to talk about,

I'm not sure what benefit I would get.

Alright, we need to get your thoughts on
that.

So we'll see. I also ordered an Ultra 4
because I gotta try both.

So we'll see. I'm not gonna keep both
because I

'Cause you're not an insane person.

well, and I enjoy the Apple Watch Ultra
battery life,

the size, the screen. And I did get a
series 11 last year just to try it.

I didn't even make a video about it
because I was like,

I just want to s like how does feel?

And I don't prefer the smaller watch
anymore.

I like the ultra size just on my wrist.

So we'll have to see when it actually
comes.

But

Audio intelligence got a whole section
during the keynote.

And there's features like sound
recognition,

which this has been on your iPhone for
years,

but now your Apple Watch can do it,

like recognize a doorbell, a smoke alarm,

a baby crying, and you can get notified of
that.

And then there were two features they
talked about.

Now I want to try and run down real quick
so all the asterisks with these features.

So live replay allows you to on Apple or
Live Rewind,

excuse me.

You can double-click the crown on your
Apple Watch and it will show

you a transcript of the last 15 seconds of
audio that was around you.

So the example they give during the
keynote is if a server comes to your
table,

reads off the specials, and you didn't
catch it,

double-click the crown, and you can see a
transcript of that audio on your watch.

That is the live replay. And then you

can do Siri recaps.

Which will provide summaries of things
that happened during the day.

And you can read those summaries on your
watch or your phone later.

And so it is ambiently taking notes on
your conversations throughout

the day and creates Apple intelligence
generated summaries.

Now, here are the caveats because I I went
down this rabbit hole.

I'm gonna link this support article that
talks about these features

in depth and what

They are and how they work and the privacy
implications.

And I will link this PDF that Apple has on
their website talking about audio

intelligence privacy overview.

And it goes into great detail about the
secure exclave,

not enclave, you know, face ID,

touch ID, that's the secure Enclave on
your devices.

This is the secure exclave.

And I am still not clear.

Because this says the iPhone 16,

16 Pro, 17E Air, and later models,

they contain a secure exclave as well that
processes the raw audio.

And so it seems like you need the Apple
Watch to do this.

Like you can't do this with just the
iPhone.

But I have gone back back and forth right
now,

and I've I've reached out to Apple to
hopefully get a final answer,

but it seems like

In order to use Siri recaps and live
replay,

it requires an Apple Watch series twelve
or ultra four,

that this feature would not be on the
iPhone specifically.

This PDF sometimes it's it seems unclear.

So I will follow up

Hold on, why

does it seem unclear? This is the Apple
Watch feature exclusively.

Because I thought the secure enclave is
what enables this.

And this PDF is

The whole

saying on the iPhone, it also contains
that same secure enclave that processes

raw audio in a contained secure
environment.

Well, it's the exclave, there are two
different things.

Exclave. Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry.

But that

that's like saying you could have a device
that has a s hypothetically

has a secure exclave but doesn't have a
microphone.

Like the fact that it also has that is not
the limiting factor.

This is an Apple Watch feature.

It is not an iPhone feature.

Okay, okay.

And I think multiple times it says the S
eleven chip is what enables this feature

Yeah.

and that is Apple Watch only. So I I I
think

Yes, correct. Okay.

I think it's safe to say you have to have
an Apple Watch series twelve

or ultra four to use this feature.

And

it's just yeah, it is it's an Apple Watch
feature.

Just like you you cannot do the ECG on
your iPhone.

You have to have an apple

Sure, sure.

No no, I it's the same thing. So I just
wasn't I wasn't trying to

be like pedantic toward you.

Well but the but that right there is
another

sensor. That's like a physical hardware
sensor.

We're talking about a microphone here.

Like

Sh okay, that's that's a fair point,

but I guess my point was that e yes,

it is just a feature of software,

but that software is watch OS feature,

not IOS

Specific. Right.

feature.

Right. Now you can see the Siri recaps on
your phone,

but yeah. Okay. So you need an Apple Watch
Series 12 or Ultra 4 to use this feature.

A couple of the privacy points that is in
the Apple support article.

The audio is never accessible.

So as these devices for Siri recap
specifically,

well, and live replay, which listen,

the watch has to be listening to do live
replay or these Siri recaps.

So it is cap not.

It is not I want to be careful about the
words here because the audio

is not recorded and it is not accessible
and it is end-to-end encrypted

and all of that. So Apple says audio flows
into a protected buffer inside

the S11 chip secure exclave. It is a
hardware isolated compartment built into

the silicon of Apple Watch and iPhone that
processes sensor data separately from

the rest of the system. So it is listening
all the time.

So we can do this Siri live replay and
Siri recaps.

But even in the Siri recaps, which could
be providing recaps throughout the day,

if you're at work and you have eight
meetings,

I imagine you would have eight recaps at
least,

maybe more. There is no speaker
attribution,

so you there's no marking like who spoke
what.

You can never go back and listen to the
audio.

Siri recaps do not contain a verbatim
transcript.

It is only a summary and bullet points.

So there is not a full transcript.

You just read the entire conversation.

~ it's not available for users under 13.

Users under 18 on a child account need to
it needs to be enabled by parents.

And for Siri recaps specifically,

you can have it. Well, first of all,

all of this is opt-in or out. So you can
turn all this off and you don't have these

features active. For Siri recaps,

you can dictate, I want to only have this.

happen at work, so by location.

You can only have this happen at time.

So you can say don't do seri recaps at
night,

like when I'm home. Or you can just enable
or disable from control center

on the Apple Watch. So you have control
whether this is on or off.

But for years and years and years,

at least I have been trying to explain to
people that their devices

are not always listening to them.

And I can't stand I can't

Do that anymore because if you get an
Apple Watch Series 12 or Ultra Four,

it seems like they are in fact listening
to you all.

Well, okay. And this is actually super
useful point to sort of spend

a moment on because I think that that's
why your iPhone doesn't have

the audio recognition features.

Because th th there's a whole different
level when an iPhone

is constantly listening. Now

Part of what's confusing and the reason I
think that you that

the privacy information was a little bit
confusing,

you do have to have an iPhone that is a
sixteen or newer for these features

to war work. If you have an iPhone or an
Apple Watch twelve,

series twelve, and an iPhone fifteen,

you don't get these features because for
both the rewind

And Siri recap, the processing happens
with the phone,

and those phones have an exclave,

which is where it happens. And for the
Siri recap recap,

it actually uses private cloud compute.

So it actually

Right.

goes to private cloud compute to do those
types of things.

So you do have to have that, but that is
different.

So the fact that your watch has this
feature that's listening all the time.

I think Apple felt like that was a much
more palatable bar.

to to to hurdle, to whatever, to clear,

to go over, than

Hurdle to clear. Yeah.

having your iPhone listening all the time
because they have spent so long trying

to convince people that their iPhones are
not listening.

And

Right.

and the iPhone is a much more potential
threat vector than

the watch is. And so imagine the malicious
and I know that

What I'm saying is sort of is not just
hypothetical.

It may not even be possible 'cause you
know,

we're only pretend developers,

so I don't really know. But just imagine

Sure, yeah.

the ability to have always on listening on
a phone.

W

Yeah.

what an app might try to do to bypass like
those protections and have,

you know Meta would love for Facebook to
be able to listen all the time

and show you ads about the things that you
that's what people think is happening.

So I think that that's why it's just the w
you have to have the watch to do that.

Now, I don't think that makes it better.

I think this is

I think this is bad, Steven. I think this
is

Really? Okay, so this is what I wanna this
is when you get it.

useful, incredibly useful, and super bad.

So I want to show this. This is in the
privacy PDF.

This is the Siri recap, which is in beta
and launches later this year.

This is not coming Monday with iOS 27,

which Apple did make official iOS 27 is
dropping Monday,

September 14th. But here you can see
there's a manual control option where

you can only have Siri recaps active when
you manually enable it.

You can have it based on places,

times, or always on. Now here's the thing.

I

See the value here. And if I still worked
at a place where there were

a lot of meetings, this might be the deal.

And this is why Plot AI exists as a
company.

This is why, what is it, Amazon's B
something,

the wrist recordable, Joanna Stern tried
that.

I mean, Apple is trying to position this
as you don't need

a dedicated hardware device to record
audio.

We can just do that. You're not going to
get the audio.

But if your goal is to have transcripts
and summaries,

we'll just give that to you. I have also
worked in places where with this feature

being like just existing in the world,

I can see a lot of overbearing managers
being like

phones on the table, watches on the table,

we're all gonna go to control center and
turn this off right now.

I feel like there's going to be a bunch of
places that that ha that's gonna

be the thing. Now

And because you can know if it's off,

like you can have it just turned off and
be in manual mode and it not

be doing this all the time. That does not
like there's no outward signal

to someone else doing it. And that's the
thing is people have been making

the comparison to metaglasses on social
media,

and it's like, yes, the metaglasses can be
bad that way.

At least there is a light letting you know
it's recording.

In this context, if you have serial recap
on,

always on.

There is no visual indication to the
people around you that it's on.

Your Apple Watch, your iPhone,

like there's there's nothing to show other
people that this is is active.

And I think in some workplaces where
there's a lot of paranoid bosses,

this is gonna get really awkward.

And they're gonna ask, like, what series
Apple Watch do you have?

Is that the new watch that does that
recording thing?

I feel like a lot of people are gonna have
to deal with that going forward.

Yeah, and I don't know like what the level
of awareness of this is going

to be in most office places. But I know
that like I've been in meetings where they

weren't controversial meetings or
especially like whatever,

but where people are like, don't record
because if you record you've created

a record.

And if you

Yeah.

create a record, there's an expectation
that that record can be used

by other people. What if you're in a
meeting and someone gets fired

and then they just they sue the company
and then they demand discovery

of every meeting that they were in and
you're the one who has the series of that?

Now all of a sudden it's like you've you
just created a record.

That's and if you've created a record for
yourself,

someone else could demand that from you,

right? Like, and I just feel like the
whole privacy document does talk about

how it respects the people around you.

And I wanna be clear.

I don't I don't mistrust Apple on this.

I

I a hundred percent believe that Apple has
designed this in the only

way possible to respect people's privacy.

And they they are playing a little bit of
a word game when they say that

it doesn't create a recording because
technically it's listening

to audio and turning it into bits.

It is creating a recording. It's just not
accessible to anyone,

including Apple. Like the

Right, right.

the point they're trying to say is you
can't subpoena people for these

rec for these recordings because they do
not exist as recording files that

can be that can be used. But it ha in
order for it to transcribe it,

it has to have created some kind of like a
digital version of it.

So there is a recording. They just don't
want you to think of it that

way because the framework that we use in
our brain is very different when it's

a recording versus like, ~ because I do
this a lot.

I will record interviews and I say,

Do you mind if I record this? I won't
share the recording anywhere.

I'm just doing it to transcribe it.

And people are like, Yeah, that's totally
fine.

Right. Right, right, right, right.

Right. And it's on me to

just never share that recording with
anybody,

but there is a recording for it.

I just think that this is this is a super
useful feature.

I think it's

I think it creates a very weird dynamic
now where you and maybe I

do think about this more because I have
heard people say things in like

in a Starbucks and I'm like, I should
write about them like,

but I didn't they didn't they didn't know
I heard they had no expectation that

Right.

I would have consumed that information and
then retransmitted it publicly.

And I feel like

Mm.

this is the same thing.

That's tough. Yeah. So two other data
points.

The summaries for Siri recaps are auto
deleted after seven days unless

you explicitly save them. So you have to
actually go in and say keep this summary

~ in order for it to be saved.

And to your point, kind of, in the privacy
support article,

it talks about omitted content.

And it says Siri recaps are designed to
omit potentially harmful content.

such as language that promotes self-harm
or hateful speech,

sensitive information such as financial
data,

government assigned identifiers,

authentication data, and certain personal
identifiers.

And it says be mindful of those around
you.

While audio is not recorded and stored and
no speakers are attributed,

consider those around you where
conversations might be private or
sensitive.

Ca consider those around you is not a
control.

Like you're just leaving it up to
somebody's better angels and we just know
people.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

yeah, yeah.

And the omitted

content. Steven, how is that happening?

How are they designed to omit

That's the thing. Right.

this?

Right. Well, and it has Private Cloud
Compute has to be parsing what this

is and then making the call and making the
judgment call in real time.

And making a judgment call and moderating
the content.

Correct. That is correct. Which I am sure
Neil I Patel will talk about

the free speech angle of this.

Cause I feel like if you had a
conversation about some financial
information,

maybe you were on a with your financial
advisor.

Maybe you were talking to your financial
advisor.

And he said something and you forgot what
he said and you're like,

well let me check the Siri recap.

Is it gonna just be like not there?

Is it gonna be like, Yeah, you talked to
the financial advisor,

but we can't save any of that you know?

Right, or this random person was cursing
along the street while we were having this

conversation, so it just is omits things.

Right.

But like why

would that's not Apple's judgment call to
make.

Right, but it's they're going to make it
apparent apparently.

They're seemingly.

But they should not.

Right. And, you know, you were talking
about workplaces,

and all that kind of stuff. Yes,

I I think there's also a lot of toxic
workplaces where this is gonna be a
problem.

Because there are meetings where people
say,

Let's not record this because we're
talking about a sensitive situation,

maybe so and so has a health issue or
whatever.

But I think there's just a lot of paranoid
toxic bosses that are gonna flip

out when they hear this. And that

It's gonna make people's lives harder.

Or toxic employees who are just looking
for a way because w I Steven,

Sure. Sure, sure.

I

think we underestimate the amount

To which we just depend on the past,

depend on the fact that most people either
a forget things that we

say that are stupid, or the friction

Right. Right.

to share that information outside of the
bubble like the cone

of silence or whatever, the bubble,

Right.

you

know, of the what is the fuck meet the
fuckers,

the the in being in a circle together,

Yeah, yeah, the Yeah, yeah, yeah,

whatever. ~

yeah.

we just we really

place a lot of our trust in the fact that
just human nature most of the time

is it'd be too har it'd be too much work
to like copy and paste this and

put it on Twitter. But now you've like
literally created the ability

for every conversation you've had for
someone to just pull that back up and be
like,

this is what this this is exactly what he
said.

I just don't

Yeah.

I don't think that we I don't think we're
prepared to be on the record all the time.

No, really, I think we just being off

There's that. Yeah.

the record is super beneficial.

Not just because you might like I'm not
talking about just liability,

just the fact that like we we just we talk
different to each other.

I mean, you and I don't. We talk like this
all the time.

But like this is it. We're always
recording.

'Cause we're always being recorded.

Although, although although

That's true.

there have been times where you have said,

I'll tell you after we stop recording and

That's true. There are t

and that's usually because I want to talk
to you about a thing I can't talk about

to our audience.

Yeah, yeah, no, I know. But and in

in our particular situation, my Apple
Watch wouldn't have been able

to hear you because it's in my headphones.

And you're you're right.

But it's yeah. And the last thing I'll say
about this,

we don't have a lot of imagery or details
about what this feature is going

to look like on the phone. Again,

it's not coming with iOS twenty seven,

it's later this year. But if you look at
the bottom,

in the Siri AI app, I guess con there's
conversations and there's recaps.

I assume the conversations is just your
conversations with Siri AI.

Correct.

So it's not

like here are the conversations you had
today.

It's just the re the recaps is just what's
there.

But but it has like a timestamp.

It has how long it's seemingly recaptured.

So it says like 10 minutes. And it also
says work.

And there's a tiny little sliver at the
bottom of this image where it says

8 30 A eight AM, 10 minutes, home.

So it is giving you like this was a 10
minute 10 minute conversation you

had at home or had at work. And this was
the time it was had

And so I mean it's it's time stamping,

it's telling you where it happened,

it's giving you the summary. I don't know,

man. This is I'm curious the public
reception of this.

I

think that there is better than there is a
better than fifteen percent chance that

Apple has to change this. Be and I point
to the CSAM detection thing,

right? Where everyone

I know. Never shipped.

was like, Yeah, we think that getting rid
of CSAM is probably a good thing.

We

Yeah.

do not think it's a good idea.

that you're scanning the everyone's photo
library,

even if and I they would take issue with
the fact that I just said it that way,

I know you they were not scanning.

where they were comparing it with hashes.

Hashes, yes.

They're just comparing hashes

to a known database, right? Of things and
in the in but what was happening

is if the hash matched, they had the
ability to then send that photy photo

to Nick Mc to actually have a human
reviewer,

Yes. Yes.

which is

not the way people expect their photo
library to work.

Right. And so I think that the way we
expect conversations with other humans

to work is not this, even if they're doing
it in the best possible way.

I think there's a better than fifteen
percent chance.

I'm not saying it's a huge chance,

but it is not a zero percent chance that
Apple's like,

Yeah, this isn't gonna work.

I am curious because they did say later
this year,

no date, no month. We'll see if this
actually ships.

And the last thing I'll say if this does
ship and we have audio intelligence

in this way, the whole rumor about the
AirPods with a camera make a lot more
sense.

Because you could take all these privacy
documents and verbiage and

how it talks about how the data is
processed and just copy and paste that,

replace audio with video.

And you can see where AirPods with a
camera could be,

where video is not quote unquote
accessible to anyone,

it's not captured, it's low res,

secure exclave, all this stuff.

And then you can ask Siri AI, what was
that poster I saw on the subway?

And a Siri recap can all like provide a
these are the visuals that were around

you or whatever. Like I can see the path
to that AirPods with a camera rumor.

Well we'll have to see if this actually
ships.

We'll have to see.

Well, also

though, you can you're right, all those
words you just said to most people though

sound like yada yada yada you're listening
all the time.

I know, I know. And it was already ~ a fa
like people already said that

all the time. I th

people in my own house I can't convince.

And now I definitely won't be able to
convince because it actually is listening.

'Cause it's actually gonna be the case.

'Cause Apple just turned it into a
feature.

Because I'm getting a new watch and I need
to know are you gonna get a new watch,

Jason?

So

'Cause you're on the Ultra Two right now.

yeah, I do love my Ultra Two. Do I w and I
the thing is everything I okay,

here's my dilemma. I'm super keep thinking
I'm wearing it and I'm not.

But I don't think I could go back to the

the non-Ultra because I really like the
amount of information you get on the
screen.

And I like those watch faces and I like
the battery life a lot.

And even on my Ultra Two, the battery life
is still great.

And I got an OG good Ultra Two with all
the parts working.

I same. That's a lot exactly what I have.

So

Yeah.

I think I would have to upgrade to the
Ultra Four and I just don't know if

I want to spend eight hundred dollars on a
new Apple Watch.

That's my thing.

sure you can get i checked my trading
value you get 250 bucks for your ultra

two just so you know

I mean, that almost makes it better.

Yeah, almost.

No, I mean for real that almost makes it a
palatable thing.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But

I'm still just not sure because honestly,

there's nothing about the the Ultra Two.

The bat I s my battery life is still very
good.

I can't check it right now because again I
forgot to put it on this morning.

But I feel

Yeah.

very weird. I feel very disoriented by not
having it on.

Sure. I'm sure. I'm sure.

Well, I got two coming, so I'll let you
know.

I'll let you know how they are.

All right.

And we'll record this podcast twice over.

One with my watch, one with my microphone.

we have to get to the 18 Pro, but we have
to have a s interstitial moment here

for a new Apple subscription. Apple Care
One Family.

So Apple Care One launched last year,

a number of months ago, and you could have
a subscription

for your individual devices.

Where we would cover six devices or some
devices,

Three three devices and then you could add
on.

then you can sorry, three then you

add them on for a certain amount.

Well, now, September 14th, so Monday,

same day as I was twenty seven,

Apple Care One family will be available.

And it's going to cost fifty dollars a
month,

or I believe five hundred dollars a year,

if you want to do the annual plan,

which sounds like a lot of money,

but here's the thing.

This will cover an unlimited amount of
devices.

So, and you don't have to like piecemeal
it,

add devices to the plan or not.

All the devices in your iCloud family will
be covered with the Apple Care

One family plan. This covers iPhone,

iPad, Apple Watch, all the things.

You there's three claims a year for an
individual

or six claims per family.

So what it seems like that means if you do
the Apple Care One Family

for $50 a month, you get unlimited devices
under Apple Care,

but six claims per year. So if your kid
breaks

his phone six times, he used all your
Apple Care that year.

And you don't get to replace another
devices.

So it is a little bit of a trade-off where
previously it was I think

one to two claims per year per device,

depending on what plan you were.

So if you drop your iPhone 17 Pro,

you crack the screen, you can get a
replacement,

or you can get the screen fixed.

You drop it a second time, you can do it.

And so that will still be true with the
family plan,

but it's you have kind of like a bank of
replacements and claims that

you have to do. Also a funny footnote,

Apple Vision Pro, ~ you can have six Apple
Vision Pro devices at

a time covered under Apple Care One
family.

If every person in your iCloud family has
an Apple Vision Pro,

they can all be covered. There you go.

if every person in your iCloud family and
you have six people in there

has a Vision Pro, let's talk. I wanna ha I
wanna I wanna have a s I wanna

Yeah,

do a story on this.

let's do a story on this. And so I'm
switching to this one hundred percent.

Because I can tell you I'm already paying
more than fifty dollars a month

for Apple Care because I have two kids
with iPhones,

they each have an Apple Watch,

there's multiple iPads, my oldest son now
has a MacBook Pro,

my wife has a MacBook Air, iPad,

phone and watch. I have the like it was
getting super messy.

And I was also unclear what devices were
covered or not,

because the Apple One subscription is
really weird trying to

add an additional device and all that.

So one, I think I will save money.

Two, I don't think I'm gonna use those
claims per year.

We probably use two to three claims per
year.

And I can just have all my devices on
Apple Care and not even think about it.

I am I'm I'm down. I'm sold on.

I I it's gonna be a tough sell in my house
because we had a son who broke

his Apple Watch. He has an S E.

And he's like

And they were gonna charge us sixty bucks
or something,

sixty-nine bucks to repair it.

That's the deductible on it. And it's
like,

well what have you been paying all this
money for?

And it's like you better use all those six
th six Apple Carrier incidents

a year and you bet and the they better all
be iPhones 'cause I think

the deductible on an iPhone is a lot less
than it is I don't know,

isn't it twenty bucks or twenty nine bucks
or something like that?

Something

like that. But iPads can be expensive too
if that breaks.

So

I just am

saying like fifty bucks man, you're
committing.

But I guess if you're already paying more
than that.

That's what I think. I feel like I'm
paying more like and that's the other
thing

is too, is I get random Apple receipt
emails like six bucks,

Apple Care.

This is

the problem, is every month I have to
explain fourteen charges that

That is true. I yeah.

are all just Apple and it's like,

What is this

for? And I'm like, Honey, I I don't know.

I promise you our card hasn't been stolen.

It's probably legit.

And so I'm I am sure and I'll do the math
once it launches,

but I'm sure I'll save money on it.

So also things we didn't get real quick.

No new Apple Watch SE, so only the series
twelve and ultra four.

No new iPhone Air. That'll be next year.

IPhone eighteen. No base model iPhone
eighteen,

Jason. We just have the pro models.

Did you notice

Wow.

though they said the iPhone 18 Pro and
iPhone Duo pushes our entire iPhone line

forward or something like that?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I'm like,

wait, it what about the other one?

With iPhone 18 Pro and iPhone Duo,

we've pushed our entire iPhone line up
forward.

What about the other ones? There's more
iPhones.

There's an Air, a base iPhone,

an iPhone 18E. They didn't even update
half of the iPhones.

So are are they gonna do them still?

Nope. Nope. I know. Next year.

Well

I think next

year it'll be eighteen E and eighteen.

Then why did they say we've pushed our
entire iPhone line up forward?

'cause they're all more expensive.

That's what you think that means?

No,

I don't know. But they did retroactively
raise the price on the older iPhones.

Sure, but

I just that is a weird thing to say if you
still

I know.

have more iPhones to introduce.

It does not make sense.

I know, but it's they'll come next year,

bottom line. ~ iPhone 18 Pro. It's amazing
that the Pro Model iPhone

is just not it's just not getting the
airtime this year.

But new colors, Burgundy and Glacier A20
Pro chip is the first

two nanometer process chip in an iPhone,

has two neural engines, got one more GPU
than the 17 Pro,

smaller dynamic island, like we talked
about.

The variable aperture, which is wild,

so there's the physical six blade aperture
in the camera.

You have four different aperture settings
that you can choose manually,

but it will also auto-adjust throughout
the day.

There's photographic styles three,

which is interesting. There's focus
peaking,

which I'll link the Verge's quick
two-minute video on it.

But Allison Johnson shows the camera,

the pro camera controls. And in those
controls are also,

in addition to shutter speed, histogram,

all of that, there is manual focus.

And so you actually get focus peaking and
manual focus built into the camera app.

This is not really taking a shot at,

but I'm curious how apps like Halide and
Obscura Camera,

how they deal with some of these controls
now just being built in to the iPhone.

There's also smart focus tracking,

which looks like a really cool feature.

Tap an active subject, and your iPhone
will automatically focus as

it moves around the frame. You can do
cinematic mode after you capture video.

Cinematic mode is also up to 60 frames per
second.

You get improved low light performance.

Time lapses are now 4K. Previously those
were 1080.

And I think one of the most

Interesting features, honestly,

is the new Apple Reference Image feature,

which will digitally sign every pixel of a
photo.

You can turn this feature on and off as
you capture images,

and it will be there's an API where other
apps will be able to tell that

a photo was taken with an iPhone camera.

They say this is geared towards
journalists,

things like that. But they're trying to
make it so you can tell whether

a photo is AI or not. And it'll even mark
when edits are made after

the photo was taken.

And so you're able to see the reference
image,

see the editing chain, and be able to sign
those photos.

And is supposedly s upcoming support for
synth ID,

~ which is a you know more open standard
used widely.

But yeah, that's nice.

Y

I definitely have some questions because
one of the things that they said about
this

kind of made it sound like it is it is in
some ways limited to your photos app.

~ there was something about hang on,

Well they said third

I'm trying to

party apps will to enable viewing of these
reference images,

there's an API that they have to build
into.

Maybe that's what it was, but it's like
this something about

the reference photo lives with the
editable photo ~ editable photo

and then it talked about your photos
library.

I just want to dig into it more because
that is the problem with

any of these standards is where will you
be able to tell?

Like if somebody just I mean, here's the
thing,

you screenshot someone else's photo that
they posted somewhere

and suddenly you've lost all of this
information.

Like i this is such a hard problem to
solve.

And I think this is a good way to do it
because essentially they are saying

This is the original. You can then sort of
it's like version control,

right? Like you can see the edit history.

Not not necessarily exactly like that,

but I don't know. I'm I'm interested to
dig into this.

I'm curious too. I'm glad Apple's doing
something.

I think I talked about on this show that
of all the trying to identify

AI generated content, having it done at
capture by the camera,

like the iPhone, is the way to do it.

And so nice to see them pushing into this,

I think. ~ couple things, the iPhone 18
Pro now charges faster.

You can get to 50% charge in 20 minutes
with a sixty watt adapter.

So previously the seventeen pro had forty
five watt charging and now it goes

up to sixty watt. So that's fun.

You can get faster charging. And they
redid ~ clear case.

So now there's like a circle in the back
rather than like the rounded wreck.

So there's there's that. There's that.

AirPods five are a thing. They're out
there.

And so you can get wireless charging and
volume adjustment on the stem

if you get the more expensive model.

My biggest thing is why this is like the
Apple TV problem where they have

two models that are twenty dollars

Yeah. This

apart.

is I this was a weird section.

In fact I had to go back and rewatch it
'cause it's like w well,

they made a big point of saying that the
they're better and but they're

for the price of the cheaper but also
there's a more expensive version.

I was like, hold on. What what are you
talking about?

Yeah. The two

Explain it to me,

Steven.

there's a hundred twenty-nine dollar
model,

which has fifty percent better active
noise canceling,

a whole new maj acoustic architecture so
they sound better.

That's a hundred twenty nine dollars.

And then if you want wireless charging and
volume adjustment on the stem,

you have to pay twenty dollars more and
get it for a hundred forty-nine dollars.

And honestly, that just feels like crazy
making to me.

I don't know why make.

But also

you get more hours of active noise
control.

Like it has more battery in the airpop.

Yeah. Has more battery. Yeah.

Wait,

what are we price gating now? This is
weird.

And a $20

price gate is is just very strange.

Like I understood with the AirPods 4,

there was an ANC version and a non-ANC
version.

That makes sense. Like, that's a very
different feature.

And I think the difference was more than
$20.

I thought it was maybe $30 or $40.

I can't remember. But gate, like
separating these two models with

a $20 price difference, I don't
understand.

Maybe it's so

Amazon or Best Buy can do a sale and you
can say AirPods five starting

at ninety nine dollars and only that one
hundred twenty nine version will

be able to get down to ninety nine dollars
during the holiday season,

but that just feels meh to me.

You think that Edie Jassy called up John
Turnus and is like,

we want to run a sale. What can you do for
us?

I don't think Apple makes its product
decisions based on that.

But this is weird. I think that the active
noise cancellation version before

was like 179 on the AirPods 4 and 129 for
the non.

Right. Right. Yes.

But again,

I fine, you're right. That makes sense.

But this difference in feature set is so
confusing to me that it's like you

I don't yeah.

get swiping on the stem a ~

Wireless charging on the case and more
battery.

I don't know. Doesn't I dunno.

Doesn't make any sense. So anyway,

that's AirPods Five. That was the event.

I I cannot wait to see Tyler Stallman and
Austin Mann and some great photographers

see what the iPhone 18 Pro is capable of
with that variable aperture.

Yourself as a photographer, I would love
to see what you were gonna do with that.

If you're gonna test it. You always have a
very nice

I'm definitely gonna test it.

Yeah, you always have very nice photos in
your your review pieces.

So let's do a a very, very quick lightning
round.

~ this came out before the event.

This was Mark German, journalist,

excuse me, Mark German over at Bloomberg,

saying that John Turnus and services chief
Eddie Q that they are going

to make efforts to raise the margins on
the app store and squeeze more money

out of it. I'll just say, Don't do it.

Don't do that. Leave it alone.

Anyway, that's all. I just wanted to get
that out.

Yeah. I

mean it's unfortunate because everyone was
like,

maybe the app store will get better
because this product guy will just not
care.

But nope, he he knows where the money's
coming from.

Yeah, so so we'll see. So we'll see.

~ this I thought was interesting.

OpenAI, it claimed to solve one of math's
one million dollar millennium prize

problems. If you're not familiar,

I think there's like seven math problems
called the

There's there

were six left until this happened.

There's six left. Okay. It was one of the
Navier Stokes equations.

And if you solve one of these math
problems,

it there's a million dollar prize,

first of all, and then infinite bragging
rights.

Your name goes down in history as solving
one of these six unsolvable math problems.

And supposedly OpenAI with an unreleased
model,

not even Astra, which is out there now.

That was news also late last week.

You can use Astra, Chat GPT, and people
are saying that model's amazing.

Computer control is super fast.

Fine, this is an unreleased model that
supposedly solved this problem.

But a mathematician, Tristan Buckmaster,

he's a math professor at NYU, said that he
and another mathematician

had been making major progress toward a
solution of this millennium problem,

and maybe OpenAI drew on some of their
work,

like AI has done for all work in all of
history,

all creative work.

And maybe it did, maybe it didn't solve it
on its own,

but OpenAI has said it's not going to
claim the prize.

Well yeah, actually let me can I expand
it?

I know we don't have a lot of time.

But I this one

Yeah, well please go ahead.

is one I spent a lot of time talking to my
son.

~ like as a I know as a parent we like to
brag about our children,

but I have a son who is like an actual
math genius.

He's a freshman. He tested out he's taking
AP calculus this year because there

was no other math classes for him to take
as a freshman.

And so he we talked about this because he
thinks it well,

first of all, he thinks open AI is just
greedy,

which is a pretty decent sum to say.

Fair. Fair.

But

so the two scientists were

I only mention this because there's so
much more than the math to this,

which is the two scientists were actually
working on a different problem.

Okay. And they

Okay, okay.

had come up with a novel way n a novel
angle in this.

And it was a thing that most
mathematicians would have overlooked.

And they were using codecs to do this.

And one of the two gentlemen works for
Anthropic.

Okay.

Mm.

And once the rumors got out that this that
they were close to solving theirs,

which is a Eulers, I don't know all the
details,

some of our listeners, whatever.

My son could have explained he did explain
it to me several times

and it's still whatever. Like I'm sorry.

Yeah. Yeah.

I'm a writer, okay? I write words.

Anyway, OpenAI essentially took what they
were doing,

fed it into a prompt, and solved this
other problem,

supposedly. And so there's like two main
issues.

One is

Did they have access to the work they were
doing in Codex?

And opening as response has not been
satisfactory on this because what they've
said

is we don't use individual whatever,

personal data or whatever. That's not an
answer to this.

Did what they've put into codex do
reinforcement learning that caused

it to be signed? And then the second thing
is they did.

They reached out to the scientist and the
to the one scientist,

the one that doesn't work at Enthropic.

I apologize, I don't know their names
right now,

and essentially said, We will give you
credit.

For this. We won't take the credit.

You just have to write a paper on our
thing and not use the guy

who works at Anthropic. This is just so
crappy.

I see. I see. I see.

This whole thing is

so crappy. And in in many, ~ I think it's
it's Terrence Ta,

who is a pretty well known ~
mathematician.

One of the things he talked about is
solving math problems.

The benefit of it is not knowing the
answer to the problem.

It's all of the things we learn along the
way of solving the problems.

And if you just feed this stuff into AI,

great, you accomplished this. You solved
the problem.

But what you didn't learn anything.

The AI didn't learn anything. No humans
gained any of the research

and the knowledge that comes with with
working out these hard problems.

You just basically cut to the end.

And it's like, come on, man.

Yeah, yeah. So no, no,

Sorry, I I know that most of our listeners
don't care.

it's good.

I'm

just gonna give this section to my son.

He'll be proud of me for

Yeah, please.

being able to say all those words.

That's good. That was good. card,

last couple quick things. Meta Muse
launched,

which normally I would not care about a
meta AI agent app or AI app or whatever,

but I saw Parker Ordellani talk about this
on X.

And so because this is a meta property,

and if you use Facebook and Instagram,

it has all of your information there.

I was curious, because I saw Parker's use
case.

If you download this MetaMuse AI app

You can ask it things like, What were some
of the restaurants I

saw on Instagram recently? And it can tell
you.

And that's kind of useful. And so I hated
that this was actually have

a useful feature that kind of like the
history of you know,

'cause it has your viewing history,

it has your Instagram stuff, ~ which also
means it has your viewing history.

Keep that in mind. but yeah, that MetaMuse
AI app is out there and might also have

some useful features.

And not only is this an app, but each like
w you end up with a virtual machine

Right. Yes.

in the cloud

and it's a virtual machine with eight gigs
of memory and eight gigs

of hard drive space. Like Ben Thompson
asked.

It's like, so tell me about your
configuration.

It's like I'm a virtual machine.

I have access to these LLMs in the cloud,

but also you have your own personal little
virtual machine just living

out there in the cloud with this little
agent running on it.

Wild.

The world's smallest it's Mac Mini.

It's like a raspberry pie with with a
yeah.

Raspberry Pi with Muse AI agent.

All right. I'm gonna jump to personal tech
because I have to cover this last last

Sweet.

story. And it's personal because this is
the T V I just bought for my birthday,

an LG OLED.

So I'll put I'll link the Verge article.

LG TVs are caught spying even when offline
or on standby.

But this is basically pointing to this
YouTube report from Gamers Nexus.

And I will link this YouTube video down in
the description.

Steve Burke, the editor-in-chief,

explains, goes to great lengths to talk
about how so many

LG LG TVs are spying on you.

If you thought the Apple Watch was bad.

These TVs are recording audio,

sending it to LG's ad tech.

And even when it is offline, like taken
off the internet,

they ran this experiment where they have
it they hacked it in such a

way where they could hear what the TV was
hearing.

And it is recording this audio,

even if it's offline, and then when it
goes back online,

it will upload it to LG's ad tech and it
will just report on what you talked about.

Serve it for ads, all this kind of stuff.

And also it knows like what's being
watched on the T V.

Gross, gross, gross. So gross.

And I don't know what to do about this.

I'm going to disconnect it from Wi Fi.

I don't even know if that matters.

Steven, you should listen, my most liked
post I've ever shared on social media

was when I posted a picture of our
eighteen year old Samsung Plasma

TV in our bedroom. It's only 1080p,

but you know what I love about it?

It is never asked to install a software
software update and it has

no connection to the internet.

And the very first thing anyone should do
when you install a new TV is turn

off all access to the internet.

Do not connect it to your Wi Fi.

Do not plug in an Ethernet cable.

Nothing. Now, 'cause in that case it might
still be recording,

which is super gross.

Yeah, yeah.

But whatever,

eventually it'll get bored because it
can't do anything with those recordings.

Well, and

that's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna go on
my unify network settings

and block this from internet access.

But they played clips in this YouTube
video from Gamers Nexus.

They played clips from people from LG
saying that we own the living room

or like we own the screen. Like just like
gross terminology saying that

in their agreements that they have the
right to do this.

But they can collect your IP address,

geographic location, every Wi-Fi network
in the vicinity,

other devices on the network, even if it's
not connected to the TV in any way,

like phones.

So nasty. I c like this is really
frustrating.

~ one I wish this came out seven months
ago.

We might have bought a different TV.

But yeah, not good on LG. Bad,

bad, bad. This YouTube video is like two
hours and fifteen minutes long,

but the entire investigation is
fascinating.

They even go into like the code of the TV
and you can see sometimes like transcripts

of the audio clips that were recorded and
also the topics that were

~ mentioned and recorded ~ by the TVs.

And ACR, which is automatic content
recognition,

is the functionality where it will yeah,

go into your information and just deliver
it to assets.

Just so not good. This is bad.

We need Brian Tong used to like the bad
apple segment on C net.

Like this is a bad apple. I don't we need
something else.

This is a bad polar bear. This is a
grizzly bear.

Yeah. Let

me just reiterate. Anyone who has a
television right now,

go turn the Wi-Fi off. Do not connect it
to anything.

Connect it to an Apple TV that's connected
to the internet.

That'll be fine. Don't and if you buy a
new television,

the first thing you should do is turn off
the Wi-Fi connection.

Because obviously if you don't connect it
to your home network,

that's great. But just turn off that
functionality entirely.

There is literally no reason for your
television to be connected to the
internet.

Yeah. So anyway, if you have an LGTV,

do that. Do what Jason said. I'm going to
block it.

I'm I'm actually disappointed,

Steven, that your T V was connected to the
internet,

to be honest.

I don't know if I did, honestly.

I have to go back and look. I thought I
never connected it because I use

Okay. Okay. Okay, good.

it as a dumb TV. Like I have my receiver
and everything.

So maybe it's not connected, but I'm gonna
go and see.

We'll we'll I'll let you know.

We'll follow up. But anyway, that was huge
Apple week.

I'm gonna get some devices in hand,

at least by launch day, as far as the
Apple Watches and the 18 Pro.

So keep your eye out for that.

iPhone Duo is not till October.

Forgot to mention that. That's not coming
till October.

You can pre-order the iPhone Duo.

October 16 and then it's available October
23rd.

So we're over a month away from that.

Pre-orders for Apple Watch and AirPods are
open now.

That opened right after the event.

Pre-orders for iPhone 18 Pro is the
Saturday.

You're gonna pre-order an iPhone,

Jason? I forgot to ask you.

~ we'll see. I'm gonna probably

Okay.

I'm interested in the pro. I don't I'd
like to play with a duo,

but I don't gosh, I don't know.

I'd have to get my hands on it to see
whether or not it's a phone I would wanna

use all the time.

Yeah, we'll have to see. I'm gonna be
getting one definitely to review and then
see.

Maybe maybe it's my default phone this
year.

We'll see. Anyway, we're gonna go record a
bonus episode.

I have to tell Jason about something I
saw.

I just I have to get it off my chest.

And so if you want to hear a bonus
episode,

get an ad-free version, the unedited full
audio from our show.

You can support by clicking the link down
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Leave us a five star rating review in
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We'll catch you next time.