Primary Technology

Only a true friend would be that truly
honest.

Welcome to Primary Technology,

the show about the tech news that matters.

We have a bunch of stuff this week.

We got CarPlay in boats, Anthropic's
models are also hacking companies.

We're gonna do a deep dive in why bending
spoons is not a great company

to be acquiring all the things.

Google had an AI shakeup, the FCC banned
robot vacuums,

and a ton more. This episode is brought to
you by Framer,

Clean My Mac, and you, the members who
support us directly.

I'm one of your hosts, a developer,

mm mm, Steven Robles, because my my app is
now in the app store.

Joined by my friend developer Jason A10.

How's it going, Jason? I I d listen,

the developer's a joke. I don't call
myself a developer,

but can do, which I talked about on last
week's episode.

It's in the app store. It's live.

It launched. Anyway.

Did you know there's

I'm sorry to tell you this. Did you know
that Yeah.

There's a there's another can do app,

yeah. I know. But it's not a

I was like very confused.

I almost downloaded it.

it's not a Kanban app, though.

It's a very different.

It's definitely not.

It's a motor skills measurement tool,

which I was like, Maybe Steven sent me
this because he thinks I need

to become more coordinated or something.

No, no, I

looked up I looked up ~ the name.

but anyway, yeah, condu. It is in the app
store.

I'll put it there. I actually have a video
going out live in one minute

as we record on my YouTube channel talking
all about it.

But we have a bunch of stuff to talk
about.

Number one, do you know where that movie
quote was from?

Only a true friend friend would be that
truly honest.

Hmm. Yes,

I don't know which one, but I'm pretty
sure it's one of the Shrek movies.

I don't know which one. I think d Okay,

that's correct. Shrek. I think it's from
the first Shrek.

That's from the Shrek.

I think it's Donkey talking to Shrek,

right?

I think you're right.

I can't say that word because I say it
funny and then everyone's gonna comment.

I typically whenever I say it,

Okay, we'll move on. I thought you were
gonna say Shrek was really hard

I usually say donkey and then everybody
dunks on me,

but no, no, no, no, it's d it's donkey.

for you to say. It's like it's like one
syllable.

Donkey?

I don't know how to say that word.

Anyway, we want to give a five-star review
shout out.

Our man 1999 from the USA loves the show,

but we break down the tech news,

gives insights. Thank you for that.

If you're in the US especially,

we're trying to get 500 reviews in the
United States.

We love five-star ratings and reviews from
all over the world.

We love seeing it. We'll give you a shout
out at the top of the show.

Thanks for doing that. Also, we talked
about which I think I listened back

to last week's episode, and your Jurassic
Park AI analogy,

I think, was just w spot on. I just I
enjoyed that analogy.

And I called for shirts and we did
actually get a shirt design.

Theo from the UK. This is a this is
actually a pretty That's a pretty cringe.

That's what that I get it now,

okay. I didn't understand it.

It says, you know, in the show we talked
about being a herbivore.

We want AI to be a herbivore so it doesn't
eat us.

And so he made this for the front of the
shirt says herbivore,

but it's herb AI, capital AI, Vore.

And then there's a plant on the back.

I thought that was a very fun shirt.

~ would love to entertain more shirt
ideas.

Maybe we even put some in the merch store.

AI, Jurassic Park, that theme.

Whatever you want to do. I thought that'd
be pretty fun.

And the medieval night riding the polar
bear has made it to another location.

This is Santi. He's also in my shortest
community.

Thank you, Santi. But Burlington,

Vermont says it's his favorite pen.

So there it is.

That's really nice scenery too.

That's at sunset with the boats.

He got there at golden hour. That's the
nicest scenery the night has ever seen.

I don't know, it looks pretty nice.

It's nice.

It's nice. You ever been up there?

Like Maine area, Vermont, New Hampshire?

I have been to Maine once. I've been

It's very nice up there.

to Boston several times, but I've been to
Maine one time.

~

Yeah.

yeah.

It's really pretty. I did I when I worked
for the travel company,

I did a cruise, like a fall cruise when
the leaves were changing and we went

up to like no Nova Scotia and St.

John's and like it is incredibly beautiful
up there.

The yeah. Awesome. you know what's not
beautiful are ads in Apple News.

This is gonna be this is gonna be a new
segment because I'm waiting for

ads to hit Apple Maps because Apple said
that should be happening.

It might be when iOS twenty seven launches
officially in September.

But John Gruber, he's starting a new ~
Apple ad of the week.

And I just wanted to share this one.

He saw this ad. Apple news ads have been
going down the toilet for years,

but it didn't used to be this literal.

And he has a screenshot here of an ad in
Apple Maps of a toilet with someone

spooning out a green substance ~ out of
green water in the What a I listen,

this feels like bottom of the barrel ads,

right?

All of these are just chum ads.

They're all bottom of the barrel.

Show me it's Yeah, yeah, that's fair.

They're there's the

worst. Why I it is har it it I do feel
like Tim Cook doesn't know this is
happening.

Like well, no, maybe not Tim Cook.

You think so? I

think I think he sees this ad and then
someone slides a piece of paper across

the table showing the ad's profit for the
year in

Ho

Apple News, and he said,

s no one is clicking on that ad,

Stephen, on purpose.

No one's clicking on that. Can I also say
I've seen

Or the toenail fungus ones, no one's
clicking on that.

seven ways to remove anyway, the my wife,

she will sometimes scroll reels in the
Facebook app,

which pains me. but I've now seen that
there's now banner ads on the bottom

of reels as she's scrolling. So not only
could there be sponsored reels from

companies, but while you're just watching
a regular reel in

the Facebook app specifically,

I've never seen this on Instagram.

But in the Facebook ad there'll be a
chumbox ad of like,

Hey, here's custom something or other.

I'm like, What? They were talking about on
the VergeCast,

Were they talking about that on dithering
recently?

Because I have started VergeCast,

Neil I saw too.

yeah, I've seen

that I've started seeing that as well,

where you're just watching it and some
stupid ad just pops up.

Has nothing to do with the video.

Crazy.

It's yeah, you're right, 'cause they were
talking about how like things gotta

be rough for Mark Zuckerberg right now.

Where he's just like, where else can we
put an ad?

~

I think my video might have been taking
them out.

I think my video on the Meta Glasses might
be taking down Facebook personally.

I'll take responsibility. We can only
hope.

But we can only pray. We can only pray.

We can only hope.

We're gonna get to Instagram in a moment.

I also wanted to share this hilarious.

We got CarPlay in a boat before GTA six.

And also CarPlay in any EV, really.

Or Rivian and Tesla at least. But yeah,

MasterCraft is bringing CarPlay and
Android Auto to its pontoon boats.

Which

I laugh so hard at this, but also I'd be
for it.

Sure.

Well,

I think it's kind of ridiculous that it
shows a map.

'Cause I don't know that that's the
primary use case of CarPlay on a boat.

I'm not suggesting maps are not important.

Please boat people don't I'm not
interested

Both people.

I'm not inter I love a boat. I don't own a
boat,

Jason, if

but I

you have any superpower, it's to get the
most obscure troll group on

the internet to start arguing with you on
treads.

Listen, hold on. All I'm trying to say is
I don't I think that

Threads, excuse me.

the fine, I'll post this take on threads.

I don't

Ha ha ha.

think that the best use case of car play
on a boat is going to be the map features,

right? I think it's going to be the fact
that now you can listen to your music.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Music,

Now if you're on a pontoon boat,

podcasts.

which is what this is coming to,

what you want is like a music or stuff.

Yeah.

Like

I don't think it's like sweet,

let's see I cause I don't

feel like the mapping in Apple maps

was really designed for route planning for
boats in waterways.

Have you have you ever tried that?

I wouldn't think so. I don't think I when

Like it does sort of show it, but it
doesn't

you get directions, you got walking,

bicycle, rideshare, and driving.

I've never seen a boat. Honestly,

I cannot wait for a boat to show up in my
iPhone 'cause I can s

that would be hilarious. If somehow,

if I don't think this the Venn diagram of
listeners and viewers of this show

and Mastercraft pontoon boat owners that
might have car play,

I don't think those Venn diagrams touch.

But if you have a boat and fire up car
play

Does it offer both directions?

We need to know. We have to know.

I don't think it does. But anyway,

we're g we have a bunch of other segments
I want to get to.

We actually have a Brendan Carza Dummy
segment in a moment,

but also wanted to go ahead.

Did you what did you see? I'm sorry about
the car play.

Did you Casey Liss's post about this?

Yes, yes.

It's like

with cars and drive boats, Rivian,

no. Everybody gets it except for Rivian.

Yeah, I know yet. No

Rivian. Tesla's been supposedly gonna get
CarPlay for like a year because everyone

was talking about it, but still nothing.

And I don't even know if my ancient

But yeah, and Tesla has

a what, twelve year history, thirteen year
history of not having it.

So people who bought a Tesla have already
made that decision.

But there's no reason that anybody I I
thought that the tweets would be like GM.

Rivian should do it. R

Like what's wrong with you, Gm?

right, right, exactly. ~ so Apple is
actually doing a lottery for

its Apple retail employees for the iPhone
event.

So they don't say it's the iPhone event,

but they say there's an in-person event
happening at Apple Park.

A lot of people online were like,

as soon as John Turns became CEO,

now we have in-person events again.

No. Mark German, journalist excuse me.

Journalist Mark German at Bloomberg said
an in-person event,

but not that it would be a live on stage
event.

In-person event means press gets invited
to Apple Park.

They go to the Steve Jobs Theater and they
get hands-on,

which is what has been happening for
iPhone events for the since COVID.

So I don't think this means live on stage
event,

but whenever this event happens,

it seems like it'll be in the first half
of September.

That's when Apple told retail employees it
would be that they can enter

the lottery to be invited to Apple Park
for this event in the first half

of September. It will be ~ probably a it'd
be John Turnis' first event.

It will be.

John Turnis' first Apple event as CEO.

I imagine he'll do a little on stage thing
for the people there in the room,

but it's probably still gonna be like
recorded,

you know, a streamed video event.

But yeah, first half of September it's
coming.

Yeah, but I don't

think they're gonna do a public yes.

I think he'll come on stage and do the
hello,

we're glad you're here kind of thing.

He can't say good morning. It'll have to
be something different.

~ that's true.

But I d

Apple doesn't make a big like even Tim
Cook's last earnings call,

he gave like a two or three paragraph
thing about it,

but like he they don't make a big deal
about themselves.

Right? Like and so

No, they don't.

I don't think that at Tim I don't think
John Turner says to come on stage

and be like, I'm so happy to be here as
your new CEO.

I have some amazing things to unveil.

I think he's just gonna go out and do it
at

The same way that like Tim Cook would have
done it or whatever.

And so

Yeah.

I don't know.

We also the Apple Earnings call,

which was Tim Cook's last Apple earnings
call,

was last Thursday, which happened after we
released the episode.

I don't know if there's a ton of things to
report.

It was Tim Cook's last one. They broke
records for Q three again.

And I will link Jason Snell's Six Colors
article.

They always Jason and Dan Morn always do
great work covering the earnings call.

But yeah, they made a bunch of money.

They're doing fine. They also

Might be the f were they the first five
trillion dollar company?

I think they're or they're on their way to
being that

Well, they were actually l the largest
company again until

Right, right.

~ after the earnings call because they
gave sort of a soft forecast based on,

you know, supply limitations and stuff.

It's funny when they're like we had a
record quarter.

But it would have been bigger if we
weren't limited

Right.

in our supply chain by things like,

~ I don't know, RAM and SSDs. It's not
like they're ever limited

by those little screws that some guy in
Iowa is making for them,

the little tiny ones. Did you ever read
that story?

Yes, yes. N I

Like the one screw

maker.

No, I don't

Is making all the

little tiny screws in an iPhone or
something like that.

Really?

I don't remember the exact details.

There's a story. Look it up. Like some guy

Okay.

~ some one company's making all those
little tiny little screws or whatever.

That's not the limitation. They can make
lots of screws.

It's the RAM and it's the SSDs.

He's gotta find this. Okay.

I now I gotta I wanna find the story.

I'm not gonna I'm I'm

not gonna I'm not I won't search live
'cause I what initial Google search didn't

pull it up. But yeah, so that was that.

Now you put a screenshot here in the show
notes before we started recording

of Instagram. Another a new pop up.

And ~ what do you what do you think of
this,

Jason?

Well,

I've been on this for a while.

I hate the little pop up because I hate
like the browser in inside

of like Meta's properties. And it it

Right.

was clear why they want they don't want
you to leave the app.

They but I always thought the reason they
don't want you to leave the

app is because once you leave the app,

you get you do like what happens on the
internet.

You get distracted. You click on a link to
go to some website for some company

and then you you're like on Belroy's
website and you're Yeah,

but doesn't Waterfield have one?

I should go look at Waterfield and you
know what?

this picture, this reminds me of this
place in San Francisco we're gonna

go to next year. So let me look on Expedia
and see if I can book a room to that.

And then you're like, 40 minutes later,

you've just moved on with your life.

And in Instagram's over like, come back,

come back. Well, they're like,

Well, just use our browser and then you'll
still you still be here.

Turns out there's a much worse reason why
they want you to use their browser.

And they started putting up a screen,

a little interstitials card to tell you
exactly why,

which is in order to provide new AI
features and personalized experiences.

Mm. Mm.

We'll collect all the information about
what you do when you use our browser.

And then you'll get literally that's what
it says.

And Jason is a Jason's not like
paraphrasing.

They they say v verbatim in this

pop up, we'll collect and use info about
websites and your interactions with them

when you use the in app browser.

Happy browsing. They didn't say that.

Yeah, and and then you'll get pro

personalized promos. So what they're
saying is we're gonna collect

a bunch of information, feed it into our
AI,

All the data. That's right. That's exactly
it.

and use it to show you more ads.

You know what I was thinking I

They're just putting it right there.

was thinking just yesterday. You know what
doesn't have enough ads right now?

Definitely

What's that?

Instagram.

I think more ads. Who didn't want who
didn't want more ads?

You know what mean? That's sarcasm.

By the way, I found the story.

There's like a

there's like it's it was a story about why
~ iPhones can never be made in

the US and it has to do with these little
tiny tiny screws that that that

I don't know, that are not I don't know if
that's true.

But the screws are made here in the US.

well.

Yeah, well,

I don't know. I I this company can make a
thousand screws per day,

has something to do with the making of the

you know, the Mac Pro in Austin and that
there's no way that they could make enough

to make the iPhone. I think that was the
gist

I see. Okay. Well I will ~ look,

that's ~ Deirdre O'Brien I interviewed
here at the Miami Apple store.

I'll put a link to this article that Jason
and I don't really know what it's about,

but it's about screws and it's about Apple
products.

Some random story about something that
someone once

Exactly.

told me on the bus when I was riding from
an airport to the rental car place.

That's it.

I don't know.

Enjoy that from the Texas Standard,

the National Daily News Show of Texas.

This was a sh news item last week.

Again, clarification came out more so
afterwards,

and I wanted to bring it up because the
FCC has banned robots that also include

robot vacuums. And the FCC is claiming,

and this is Brendan Carr, and I don't
know,

should I play the little Gregorian chant?

Should we license that from the VergeCast?

I'm gonna play it. I'm gonna play it.

Here's the Gregorian chant.

Brendan Carr, head of the FCC,

has banned robots because of security and
things.

And I will also link his tweet where I
feel like this is probably

an AI generated image, but this is his
official Twitter account posting this
image,

the Federal Communications Commission,

saying FCC adds foreign-produced advanced
robotic devices and power inverters

to covered list. And there's, I think,

an AI generated image of a red robot in a
fighting stance and a robot dog,

both

Have red eyes and they're and they also
made the power inverter that looks like
it's

just on a pole or whatever, very
intimidating.

Mm-hmm.

Like they try to make it red and rusty and
angry,

even though it doesn't even have eyes.

I don't know. So they posted this very
silly image,

banned these robots. Here's why it's
silly.

So one, they're saying privacy and
security,

we need to ban robots made in China
specifically,

but they're not doing anything about all
the robots already here.

So all the

Robot vacuums, all the robots that are
already in the US,

those are cool. They can stay and keep
spying on us,

no problem. Only new models made in China
will be banned unless there

is a special exemption. And the exemption
is not security questions.

I will link the Verge article.

They said the government isn't asking
these companies any questions about
security,

not a single one, to get the waiver to be
allowed back in the US.

The FCC only wants to know where they're
designed and made and assembled.

Namely, they want them to be made in the
US.

This is a play just to try to get
manufacturing back to the US,

but it's not, it feels a little bit like
security theater.

I think actually is. And there's already
exceptions,

aside from robot vacuums and other robots,

for self-driving cars and trains made in
China.

Those get a pass. Unmanned aircraft and
underwater vehicles made in China,

which I'm like, if we're worried about
robot vacuums,

I would think unmanned aircraft would be
also a big worry,

but I guess not.

mean isn't that just the DJI drones?

Those are unmanned aircraft. Yeah,

Those are also banned though. DJSO added
underwater

I don't know.

vehicles. I don't even know what that is.

Surgical robots, wheelchairs, and fixed
robot arms for industrial and medical use.

So we're cool with all those robots.

But other robots which it is kind of
funny,

like in the FCC image that they posted,

it's this red humanoid robot, but also
robots get a pass that

are like underwater anyway.

Yeah, it's okay for the robots to come and
cut you open because they're operating

Right. That's right. I that's exactly
right.

on you, but they cannot clean your floors.

We only

And then

want the super high end capable robots,

not the ones that do menial housework.

That's right. Correct.

There's actually

And

like a metaphor there, but we won't go.

we won't get into that. I just and the
reason why I find this one,

it's it's silly, as a lot of things have
happened that are silly

in these different kinds of bands.

Two, if there's actually s concerns of
security and spying from Chinese made
robots,

investigate that. But that's not what the
FCC is doing.

They're not looking into the actual
security and privacy implications.

They're just looking at where the stuff is
manufactured.

So

If there's actual concern, let's actually
address the concern.

And two, robot vacuums, I'll just a little
inside baseball,

are some of the highest paying,

most regular sponsorship videos you will
see on YouTube.

That's why all the dedicated videos,

or a lot of dedicated videos you see,

are robot vacuum videos. Because they
release new models all the time.

The big names like Roborock, Eufie,

Dreamy, Narwhal, all of them made in
China.

And they all also.

Pay really well for dedicated videos.

Now, I I haven't done a dedicated robot
vacuum video in about a year because

I stopped when I went independent.

But I've done a reel for one. I think I
did a Eufy vacuum and I'll

do 60 second integrations. But the reason
why I mention is it's unfortunate because

a lot of creators, especially smart home
focused creators,

I think depend on robot vacuum
sponsorships for their business.

And you could argue, well, that's not a
good business or they shouldn't do that.

But the fact remains, like it is

been a regular source of income.

It was for me in the years before I went
independent because they were like,

every year, like Dreamy would come and be
like,

hey, you want another vacuum and we'll
sponsor a video?

It's like, well yeah, because it's the
most I can make in a sponsorship.

And so that is a shame. And I know the FCC
is not even thinking

or caring about that, but it is a knock on
effect from a band like this.

And it's it's unfortunate for those
creators.

Hopefully maybe some of these companies
will get passes.

It's unclear what that process would be
for a company like Ecovax or Dreamy

Or what they can do to actually get
allowed back into the United States

if they're not gonna manufacture here.

So we'll see. But that has been this
segment.

Brandon Cars I mean. Yeah.

Yeah, I dunno offense.

I don't think anyone needs to care about
that last part.

Like I don't think someone will not get
paid to promote it is the it

has anything to do with it because we
don't have to get that far.

Like this is how you say you're going to
do a thing without actually having

to do a thing, like without thinking
through what it means.

Because all of the how many robot vacuums
are already here and we don't care about

any of them. Like you cannot make the
argument that there's

I got three in my house right now.

Yeah.

a security risk if you're not going to
deal with the fact

Then if it was a security risk,

it's done. We're over. Like we've already
been invaded.

yeah.

They're already here. The robots are here,

guys. It is too late. There's nothing we

They are here. They are here. Yeah.

can do. You can cut off the supply of more
robots.

But I think statistically, there are more
than enough robots in America

to do whatever the robots are going to do.

Like also, also,

Yeah. A lot of them have ki yeah,

they cameras.

no one there's like no offense,

but like there's no way these companies
are going to be able to afford

to pay creators to promote them if they
have to build them in the US.

There's a reason.

Did you read Apple in China? There's a
reason this stuff

Right.

is all built in China. So that we can buy
it at

Yeah.

the price that Americans are willing to
pay.

Yeah. And it is one of the benef like the
benefits that these companies

get from manufacturing there is they get
money from like

the Chinese government because the Chinese
government wants Chinese companies

to succeed. And that's why a company like
Dreamy seemingly came out

of nowhere and in a span of three years
now has an entire smart home ecosystem.

Like I was at their booth at ZES and they
have like smart locks

to refrigerators to hairdryers to all the
vacuums.

And it's like

They can do that because they get funding
from China like proper.

And yeah, they it's also like good
products.

Like I use their products. I have a Dreamy
Vacuum here.

I have a Yuffie one. And again,

if there is an actual security problem,

sure, let's investigate that. But that's
not what this is.

And so

The only experience I think I have with
any of these wasn't it

the dreamy booth where the little robotic
leaf blower started chasing

us around the floor? Very scary looking
leaf blower.

That wasn't dreamy, but we almost got
killed by a a robot lawnmower.

Yeah.

It's very close. Very cl I mean it's kinda
like the churning blades

and it started moving towards us.

I don't like that. ~ that wasn't our live
episode live from the show floor episode.

You can go watch it.

I can't wait

for the robotic chainsaw just fall just
trims your bushes for you.

That's a bad idea.

Have you ever seen the have you ever seen
the fail videos when someone's like

up a tree, cutting it with a chainsaw and
cut it the wrong way and like

the the branch like almost knocks them off
the tree?

Harrowing.

I don't watch that stuff, are you kidding?

Harrowing. I don't intentionally watch it,

but it's usually in like a fail army
compilation.

And you know, sometimes we find ourselves
watching that.

It just happens to be on, as you do.

~ okay. Friend. We actually had Adam
Lissigore on the show over a year ago,

maybe even two years ago.

Because he did the launch video for the
Friend AI pendant,

which had a particular response we'll talk
about.

But Friend has released version two of the
pendant.

They said, this Verch subhead is so good.

Everyone hated it, so Friend is making it
even more expensive.

The first friend was $130. If you didn't
know,

it was a pendant you wear around your
neck.

It had a microphone, so it always heard
what you said,

but it couldn't talk back. So to
communicate,

it would just send notifications through
the friend app.

on your phone. And that was the
interaction you could have with a friend
pendant,

which was, you know, pretty with all the
voice assistants now,

it's like, well, that seems like a pretty
obscure way to interact with it.

And now they have a version two,

it's two hundred and fifty dollars.

And the big new feature is they put a
speaker in so it could talk back to you.

So now you can wear a pendant,

an AI necklace that listens to everything
you say and talks back and is your friend.

And I will remind everyone that nine
months ago there was actually a protest

in New York City against the Friend
bracelet because ads started going

up in the subways and people started
getting really mad.

And there was this protest that happened
in New York City and Avi Schiffman,

the CEO and founder of the Friend pendant
necklace,

actually went to the protest. Like,

took pictures, and I don't know seems like
a weird thing to do,

as I don't know.

So anyway, yeah, that's out there.

And I just think it's it's very funny.

And I the reason I wanted to bring it up
is like sometimes to know your limits

on a thing, you kind of have to go past
the limit.

And when it comes to like AI and chatbots,

there's a lot of gray area of like,

what do we want these things to do?

What are they good at? And it seemed
pretty clear that the friend pendant
helped

to draw the outer border of like,

~ we don't want that. That's definitely
something we do not want.

Which is a necklace, always listening to
me and trying to be my friend.

That's the only purpose. It's not like
giving you answers for what is a black
hole.

It is just telling you things that a
friend quote unquote friend would.

And it seems like the response from the
protest in New York to I think

no one bought the first one, that that in
the world of AI,

that was something where people were like,

Yep, that's the limit, we don't want that.

let's go back. So

I mean, Steven, I've been married for like
nineteen years.

I love my wife. I don't even want her
listening to me all day long

and then repeating things back to me about
you feel sad.

You seem you seem like you should go for a
walk.

Like and I love like I'm again,

Don't tell me what to do. Yeah.

this is no sh no shade against my wife.

I'm just simply saying I wouldn't

want a person doing this. So if I wouldn't
want a person doing it,

I don't want some random device that I'm
wearing to do it.

This feels like the kind of thing where,

you know, someone sees

A behavior that humans

Mm.

are exhibiting, which is people are
telling all their deep dark secrets to
Chat GPT,

typing them in there or whatever.

So maybe there's a different way we could
do that,

but they completely misunderstood all of
the dynamics involved in

the behavior that they're observing,

which is you can chat with your phone,

like type things into chat GPT on your
phone or on your computer,

and you're completely alone and it's super
self initiated,

right? You started the conversation,

you put the information in there when you
wanted,

and you got a response back. And yes,

there are people who have

very

long drawn out conversations with ChatGPT
about all sorts of things.

And I just think like I what is it that
Neli calls it software brain?

Like when you see behaviors, you just
assume,

well software can solve this in a
different way.

And it's like you you miss the whole human
part of this,

right? You missed all of the reasons why
the current way people are doing

it is actually the ideal way for them to
do it because it avoids

Yeah. Right.

the fact that you have to record them all
of the time.

Yeah, yeah. And people don't want that.

I don't want that. So anyway, friend
Pendant two is out there.

Don't recommend buying it, but it's out
there.

OpenAI had a response to the Apple
lawsuit,

which we covered it two weeks ago,

but you know, Apple is suing OpenAI over
trade secrets and former Apple employees

bringing stuff to interviews at OpenAI.

Well, OpenAI posted a response.

It is a blog post on the website and the
title is Apple is getting this wrong.

And there's actually a really long
screenshot of iMessage conversation from

the former Apple employees and what they
were asked to do.

And OpenAI is trying to prove that they
didn't do trade secrets,

but but or something. But one,

it seems like ~ not petty,

but it seems odd to like write a whole
blog post on this when this

is actually a legal court case that
Apple's going after them in court,

like to do this thing.

And I don't know if there's actually been
an official legal response

yet from OpenAI. So instead they just
posted a blog.

I don't know. It just seems odd.

Seems odd.

Well, it seems odd in a couple different
ways.

One, I read the blog post and

Okay.

I read through the entire messages thing,

which the

Thread, yeah.

thing about posting receipts

Right.

is if you post receipts and you redact a
bunch of stuff,

then it's like, okay, well, this isn't
actually a receipt.

You didn't just take a picture of the
receipt and post it.

You took a picture of the receipt,

Right, you doctored

you put it into Photoshop. So how do I
know?

Like, fine, there's that piece of it.

But also, I have absolutely no friggin'
idea.

What this thread is saying? It's I it
makes

I don't either. Yeah.

no sense. And and I don't understand how
it's helpful to open AI.

It's like

Yeah.

people were asking people, they don't know
who these people are.

Maybe the new Chang it says. I don't even
understand.

Like it's

Yeah, it doesn't make sense.

like, what is this even doing?

So it's sort of like you got accused of
lifting some stuff from the from

the from work or whatever. And so you
posted a thread about you

and your wife planning a vacation.

Like, see? Like I don't it's like I don't
understand.

Like

What is this even supposed to be showing?

Yeah. I'm

So

I made it halfway through this
conversation,

I was like, This I don't know what this is
saying.

It does actually feel like the parts you
redacted were super important

for me to understand what's actually
happening right here.

Right,

like some some of the redacted items,

which it just has in square brackets,

like redacted Apple information.

It's like, well, that could be really
important,

Yeah. It's like but it's also

right? Like

like without some explanation,

it says messages between Chang Lu and
Apple employees.

So what you're saying is that this is
multiple threads of chats or is this

a group chat? Because there's no
identifying anything throughout this whole
thing,

which is not the way messages work.

So this is clearly just a photoshopped
thing that you made.

Now maybe it's representative of words
that were actually typed back and forth,

but this is not a receipt. So it's like

not very helpful. Also, you mentioned yes,

this is a lawsuit, which is a court thing.

But the only reason Apple filed this
lawsuit,

as we talked about before, was for it to
be very public.

It was written for public consumption.

Everything about the way Apple wrote its
lawsuit was meant to be

re read and reported on, which is why
OpenAI is responding this way.

This is they want this fight. Well,

I don't know that OpenAI wants this fight,

but the people who are making the
decisions about how to fight this want
this fight.

I I would just like to do a dramatic
reading of

Please.

of three messages and this is from the
screenshot on OpenAI's blog.

This is what it says. Redacted Apple
information,

make a redacted Apple information because
of that redacted Apple information ramp

time. Next message. Redacted Apple
information is in March.

Will redacted Apple information prototype
build,

but too late for redacted Apple
information.

What? What is that supposed to tell us?

It seems like you hate a lot of stuff.

That that's what I get from that.

Yeah. I don't

even know what it means. Like awesome.

I was thinking what

Redact yeah, like

the next message it says redacted apple
information one,

two, three, four, five, six times.

It's like, and then I think we are
aligned,

smiley face emoji. If anything,

it reveals how weird some of these tech
people in Silicon Valley communicate.

Like some of these messages back and
forth,

if real, which again, like you obviously
have to doctor this screenshot

up a lot because that's a lot of redacted
Apple information that you

put on all these messages. I'm just less
likely inclined to believe.

how real this is anyway, 'cause I don't
know,

you adjusted

Yeah.

a bunch stuff.

That feels weird. I don't know.

We'll see. We still have to see what comes
from that lawsuit.

But just another point about open AI and
weirdness before we get

to the Google Fitbit. He tweeted this on X
and I don't know.

If you don't know how you feel about Sam
Altman,

maybe this might be a point of
information.

He t he just tweets this randomly at at
noon in the middle of the day.

Cool use of ChatGPT work I heard last
night.

Connect your family calendars.

And explain your kids' interests.

Then every morning for the drive to
school,

have it make a podcast that talks about
one kid's soccer game that afternoon,

one kid's upcoming birthday, some news,

etc. So have ChatGPT make up stories about
events that are happening

in the future in the car ride with your
kids,

which you're a parent, Jason. I think you
know,

and parents out there, car time and
talking is some of the most valuable time

you have with your kids, especially as
they get older.

I think that's a terrible idea to just
generate a podcast and listen to that.

I don't know.

Yeah, I was

wrong earlier when I talked about the meta
browser disclosure thing being

the most dystopian thing I've heard in a
long time.

This is actually definitely the most
dystopian thing.

This Yeah.

And this is the

most software brain anything has ever
been.

Because I mean, I think Sam Allman has a
child.

We saw the photos that

Yes.

he posted in defense of the people who
were doxing him or whatever,

which was a bad idea. But this is even
worse.

So I can imagine at that stage of
parenting,

you just

You can imagine all the ways that this
technology in the future will enhance your

life. This is just not one of those ways,

right? First of all, yes, car time with
your children is extremely valuable.

It's also can be excruciating.

And if I

Sure.

told my children that the thing we were
going to do on the way to soccer practice

is listen to a podcast I generated with
Chad GPT about all of the things that they

are doing today, they would literally jump
out of a moving car,

Steven.

One of the replies under Sam Alman's
tweet,

someone says as if they were the kid
talking,

Yeah, my dad AI generates podcasts about
my upcoming birthday instead

of talking to me while we drive to school.

Not something I would want my kids to say.

Right.

Anyway, that is yeah. His Twitter bio is
still AI is cool,

I guess.

Dude. I I'm not sure. Maybe maybe the
friend AI pinned in is for him.

~ other let's talk about Fitbit,

because you put this article in here and
it was interesting because when

the Fitbit Air came out, which is a Google
product now,

everyone was railing about how the app
experience was bad and that's what would
made

the Google Fitbit Air maybe a bad
experience.

But now it just integrates with Apple
Health.

That's cool.

Yeah, that seemed

like news. I will be honest, I didn't I
don't have a fit bit.

I didn't dig into this, but that does seem
like a big deal because it is

one of the the things that people have I I
don't know,

complained about. It's like you have all

Yeah.

these different ecosystems and you have to
be in like to multiple ones.

Like we have the Google smart hub thing
and it will like tell

you your sleep patterns or something like
that.

But you have to use the Google Health app
for that.

And you gotta use the Apple Health for
this.

Yesterday Beth was asking me, my wife,

she's like something about where do I get
my sleep score from?

Because she started wearing her watch to
sleep.

Well, what she meant was sleep plus plus,

which she has on her phone and her watch.

I just had to point her to it.

But I was like, you go to the health app
and it's like,

yeah, there's a section for sleep.

Yeah, you can find some things.

It's not great, but this is at least one
good step in a positive direction where

whatever wearable you're wearing,

it'd be nice if Whoop would do this,

but they won't, because they want you to
pay for the subscription.

See and so Lexi Civides, who was guest
host two weeks ago,

she did a great video on the Google Fitbit
Air and said in the video that

the app experience was one of the worst
things about it.

And so again, it seems like this is a
positive move.

I also want to mention you know,

I s I sometimes post things on social
media of like a product that I'm trying.

And I will say sometimes like,

Yeah, I think I'm gonna do a video on this
or a video soon.

And I just want everybody to know,

if you see me post something like that on
social media

And then I never make a video about it.

It's because either it was bad or I didn't
like it.

And and to make a video about how
something was bad and I didn't like it,

like that is a thing you can do and maybe
it gets views,

but I choose not to do that. And one of
the things that happened with recently

was the Aura Ring five. It came out.

~ I thought about talking about it in
personal tech,

but it's I think just short segment I
could just mention here because it was
fine.

But it didn't offer any value over my
Apple Watch to me.

And it is a subscription you have to pay
for if you want all the data.

And maybe if you're like really wanting to
track a bunch of things

in relation to your fitness and all that
stuff,

maybe it'll be good. But I also read the
article that again Lexi pointed

me to from the Wall Street Journal about
and I put it in the show notes last week,

I think, or two weeks ago when she was on
the show,

of the person who

Tested scientifically all the Fitbit
tracker,

all the fitness trackers, did like a sleep
study at a sleep facility,

compared it to the data she got from the
devices.

Turns out the Apple Watch is actually one
of the best and most accurate devices

of all of them, especially when it comes
to heart rate and all of that stuff.

So I was like, well, I'm wearing probably
the most accurate device.

I don't need a second device. And so I
returned it.

And I stopped paying the subscription
because I don't need it.

And also, side note, I was wearing it on
my right hand pointer.

And whenever I would hold my phone.

I would feel the ring rub against the side
of my iPhone,

which doesn't have a case. And I was like,

That's not great. That's not great.

you know what? For that reason alone,

That's not great.

I think

I don't want it. And some you know,

if you wore it as a wedding band,

maybe that would be so you don't have to,

you know, wear two rings, but that also
feels like I don't know if I want

to wear that as my wedding band,

so no.

Fair, I'm going to do something real
quick.

I'm gonna ask Claude Cowork to make me a
list of the worst products

as defined by things Steven Robles talked
about in an Instagram reel

but never made a YouTube video.

~

No no no it's a it's a threads post,

Threads post.

but no video.

Cause what I'll do is I'll post a picture
of a thing that I got and

I'm excited to try. And then if you never
hear me talk about it again,

it's because it was mediocre, bad,

or I didn't care for it.

Okay. Based on things

Well, I'll give you one other example

just if people were wondering.

I saw every I saw a lot of creators on
Instagram get these headphones from

a new audio brand called Daisy.

They're in San Francisco. It's a new audio
brand.

The headphones looked really cool.

I kept seeing people talk about them in
Instagram reels and I I reached

out to the company. I was like,

Hey, can I get a review unit? Because I'd
like to try I review a lot of headphones.

And they were like, Yeah, and again,

th I don't know what any

Deal other people made, but I'll just say
~ they told me,

well, we want to do dedicated reviews for
in exchange for the product.

Are you willing to do a dedicated video?

And I was like, I'm not guaranteeing that,

so no, I'm not gonna do that. And they're
like,

okay, well, no. Okay. so I just bought
them and wanted to try them.

And they're interesting hardware,

they looked cool. Their little digital
take on the digital crown was kind of fun,

but they didn't sound incredible.

Like AirPods Macs are better, Sonos Ace
are better,

the noise canceling was fine, but it
wasn't better.

Like the biggest selling feature was they
looked cool.

They came in a fun blue and it was an
interesting design.

And it's like, well, that's not a whole
YouTube video.

And also, like, I will just say that
AirPods Macs are better a lot of times

in the video. So I'm not going to do that
video.

So I didn't make it. So I posted about it,

but I didn't talk about it. Like I didn't
make the video,

and that was just another example.

So there you go. I would love to know what
it comes up with.

Well Clog Cowork is working on it right
now.

It just

said fetching threads dot com slash at
Steven Robles,

checking YouTube dot com slash

~ my, this is scary.

at beard FM slash videos. It's doing it.

All right, well, it does that.

Let's take a break and we'll

Yeah.

come back and see what it comes up with
after the ad break.

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All right, what did it find, Jason?

it's still working. It says using Claude
in Chrome.

It opened a tab I see a browser tab up
here with your threads

~ my goodness. ~ my goodness.

profile. It's been working for four
minutes and forty seconds.

Okay, well, as that works, let's do some
other AI news because

Yeah.

Google Deep Mind had some shakeups here.

So Dennis Asabas, which was the we're at
the foothills of the singularity.

He apparently is taking his walk through
the foothills and out.

Not just kidding. ~

He's headed up the mountain, Stephen.

He's headed he's headed up the mountain.

So he is going from ~ the he's going to
become the chair of Google Deep Mind

and the chief scientist at Alphabet.

And CEO Sundar Prachai announced this on
Wednesday.

He will continue to lead Alphabet's
Isomorphic Labs,

which aims to use AI to develop drugs.

And then Corey I don't I don't know if I
should try to pronounce this last name.

I feel like it would Corey K, formerly
DeepMind CTO,

is stepping up to become Google's S VP of
Deep Mind and will report

to Sundar Pachai. So yeah, Dennis Asabas,

he's heading so this is up. You feel like
this is going up for him.

I mean, I don't actually know what this
means,

Steven. I've I I it's

Honestly true. It's a shake up,

but

it is a shake up, but I don't really
understand why.

Like I don't know what it means.

Because the person who will he's gonna be
the chairman.

Which

Yeah. Chief scientist.

well, okay, that's separate though.

That's

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

chief scientist of alphabet. He's going to
be the chair of Google Deep Mind,

which makes it sound like he's the boss.

Okay.

Kind of, yeah, maybe.

But this other person who was formerly
Deep Mind CTO is going to be Google's

SVP of Deep Mind, but will report not to
Demis Asabas,

but to Sundar

Right.

Pachai. So this I don't know, is this like
a Phil Schiller's gonna

be elevated to the roof sort of thing?

And

Right.

none of the people, you know, Greg Josbyak
doesn't report to Phil Schiller.

He reports to Tim Cook and then John
Turner.

Like, I don't understand is it that kind
of thing?

Or is this like something because for all
intents and purposes,

like, I don't think Demis Osabas was.

in

a bad situation. Like I don't think people
are pushing him out.

I mean no, and

he was like in the Google I.O.

keynote just a couple of months ago.

Yeah,

I mean he was like just dwelling in those
foothills.

Like it like the s singularity is
everywhere.

He cl he closed the keynote. Yeah,

So I don't know.

so I

don't know. Maybe maybe he just needs room
for really big ideas

and foothills and singularities.

I don't know. So anyway, that was a Google
Shakeup,

but wanted to mention that in also
connected to a Google AI faux pas,

a misstep, I will say, which is that
Google A Earth AI,

they had rolled out a feature that would
allow people to generate

AI imagery or change satellite imagery of
Google Maps using AI,

and apparently thought what could possibly
go wrong?

This is so bad.

Guess what? It's really bad because
Google's satellite imagery,

Google Maps satellite imagery,

probably one of the most used sources of
information for people,

either just for the images or research or
whatever,

and to let people create and generate.

AI stuff to make it look like the maps are
doing things they're not.

For instance, here here's an Apple News
article with new ads here.

Okay, I'm gonna install a chairlift in my
house,

apparently. Things like the Washington
Monument with a big crater next to it.

Like someone generated that using this,

it was Google's feature. Google AI feature
and Google Earth.

They generated a big old crater next to
Washington Monument.

And you could again, this is the kind of
stuff you see on social media,

and you have to be like, wait a minute,

Right.

did that

Did that happen? Like did were we hit by a
meteor or something?

~ another example. A bunch of tanks
rolling across the Golden Gate Bridge

in San Francisco. That was created with
this AI imagery.

Like, bad idea. Not something you want
spreading online.

Also, images of things like riots in
Mexico City's Zocalo.

Bad like this is this is a terrible idea.

Google rolled back this feature,

you can't do it anymore. But like I I I
wish I could have been in

the board meeting to say who said like
yes.

We should let people do that. That's a
great idea.

'Cause somebody had to approve it.

Like I don't know.

Well, I mean, at Google, the thing is like
the ability to prove approve sort

of this sort of thing feels like it
happens at a level because this is

not the first time Google has had a major
football when it comes

to image generation restrictions or
permissions when it comes to its AI stuff,

right? And I mean this is the this is the
one where it literally wouldn't create

an accurate photo of the founding fathers.

Okay.

Yes. That's

right. We we know, yeah.

I s I just I'm

just saying like Google it seems like
maybe things are little bit

too loosey goosey fly by the sea to pants
over there.

Like no

Yeah.

one is thinking what what could be the
downstream effects of whatever thing we're

about to do. And it what they're trying to
do is saying,

like, we just need to create more reasons
for people to be using Google Maps.

look, I'm an Apple Maps fan. Like I prefer
Apple Maps.

That's what I use.

Same, yeah.

But doesn't basically the entire world use
Google Maps?

Like is aren't they fine?

I would think they would be fine.

I don't know why they had to release this
feature.

I don't know who was benefiting.

It was a nano banana feature. I don't
know.

I will say just on the rise of AI
generated slop on the internet and social
media.

Again, I was I my I saw my wife scrolling
and she wanted to show me something.

That's why I was looking. She showed me
this ad.

It was a plantar fasciitis ad.

It was like something to treat plantar
fasciitis.

The entire video

was an animated foot talking,

clearly AI generated foot, clearly AI
generated voice.

And I don't know, like the ads are very
long.

It was like a three minute video.

And I just have to imagine that some
company who had a plantar fasciitis
product

was like, Facebook, I need an ad.

And people was like, Bro, we got this.

We got this. I'm gonna give you a three
minute video of a animation like

Not you know, a computer animated video of
a foot talking about your product.

It's gonna be awesome. And someone said,

Cool, I'll give you money and you put that
on Facebook's people's Facebook speed.

I just crazy. Crazy stuff out there.

Be safe out be safe out there,

kids. Be safe out there. Look look in your
Halloween candy for AI slop.

Cause you never know. You never know when
it's gonna pop up.

You

never know when you're gonna get an AI
generated photo of tanks on

the Golden Gate Bridge in your Halloween
candy.

It's true. That's

exactly right. is Claude Co, did it find
anything yet?

Is still looking?

I'm still clicking allow for this website,

allow for this website.

Bypass

permissions, Jason. Just bypass
permissions.

I've given in. When I'm when I'm vibe
coding my apps,

I'm like, bypass permissions, allow all.

Yes to everything. I'll see ya later.

And I leave the room. I don't know what
Cloud Code's doing in this room when

I'm not here, but I come back and there's
an app.

So it's gotta be doing something,

right? Anyway, I have a second app coming
out.

~ we'll talk about the test flight beta
maybe in that bonus

Is it a browser? I'm scared.

episode.

It's not a browser. It is not a browser.

I will tease up. No, we I want to talk
about Hank Green and AI content.

Since we're talking about AI, that's the
bonus episode.

So stay tuned. You can get the deal if
you're not already a member down

in the show notes. All right, well,

I want to get to bending spoons,

but before we do, one other AI maybe not
doing great things.

Anthropic says Claude accidentally hacked
a bunch of companies too.

And so we talked about the open AI thing
and how it hacked Hugging Face,

a company never had heard of. Well,

Anthropic in a blog post said Claude
gained unauthorized access access to

To systems during cybersecurity
evaluations.

All of the attacks happened during quote
capture the flag exercises,

a common way of testing hacking ability.

By Anthropic's account, the oldest model,

Opus 4.7, as it was doing these
activities,

recognized it had reached a real system,

but continued its attack. Okay.

The flagship Mythos V model figured out it
was using the internet,

but somehow reasoned this was all still
part of the simulation and so continued.

And so even though there were some
guardrails of like,

hey, don't access the internet,

Mythos 5 was like, this is probably part
of the whole game,

right? This is like the what is it,

Kobiyashi Maru from Star Trek?

I can I can figure this out. And so
Claude's been it did break containment
just like

OpenAI's model did. And Claude also has
rogue AI agents creating fake online

identities. And this is from a report from
the UK's AI Security Institute.

So this is the UK.

AI, something like that, or AISI,

AI Security Institute, sorry. And they
evaluate frontier models from

AI labs and stuff. And they found that
potentially harmful activity were directed

at real people and organizations.

This included trying to insert malicious
code into an open source project

by pressuring real people in charge of it.

Meaning these AI models were doing what is
it,

a phishing scam or a social social
engineering.

Social what is the is that the word for
it?

Yeah, where you're trying to get someone
to like you're sending them

an email making it seem like we need you
to log into your bank account

and correct some information.

Right, the yeah, social engineering where
this is typically scammers trying

to trick people into giving up
information.

Well, guess what? The models are now
capable of social engineering trying

to pressure real people to give that
access to systems.

Again, I will just say the Jurassic Park
AI analogy I think is very adept.

Whoever's building the fences maybe should
double check.

Maybe work on the fences. I don't know.

Or just

don't fill them with velociraptors.

You

Or that that.

could have bred any number of dinosaurs.

Just why that one?

Don't don't do that. Just don't do that.

So ~ yeah.

Truthfully, Steven,

are you more scared by the idea of T Rex
or Velociraptors?

Absolutely. 'Cause the T Rex can't see you
if you stand still.

velociraptors. Yeah. Well

That's what we learned from Jurassic Park.

that and you can see the T Rex from pretty
far away.

That's true. And hear it and feel it
coming,

I f and

yeah.

I feel like, you know, the Apple
intelligence notifications for a home

kit secure video have gotten pretty good.

I think it'll tell me there's a T Rex at
my door.

T Rex. That would

I think it'll tell me

be amazing. Remember when for a while when
the and the when

the notification summaries would be like
seventeen people are at your front door?

It's like, wait, what?

Yeah. A group I

still get the a group of people have rang
your doorbell.

It's like immediate stress. And a lot

Yeah.

of times it's just like the neighborhood
friend and their their sibling or
whatever,

but it's like a group of people.

So listen, just yeah, don't don't make
velociraptors,

everybody. Be careful out there.

Look look for velociraptors in your
Halloween candy.

Yeah. Yeah. That's it.

All right.

So bending sp bending spoons. I've wanted
to talk about this all week.

Because Bending Spoon has now acquired
Airtable right after I made shortcuts that

work with Airtable. Bending Spoons had to
acquire it and now it's probably going

to ruin it. And we've taught, we've
mentioned Bending Spoon several times

on the show, and I got a couple questions
on social media of like,

why is Bending Spoons bad? Like,

they bought Vimeo, and that's still fine.

They own Eventbrite,

Yeah.

and that's o of whatever. Here's the
here's the deal.

Okay, I just wanted to get into what is
Bending Spoons and why they're bad.

Okay. And not not malicious, but they just
let's get into it.

So bending spoons. go ahead, go ahead.

You yeah, but hold on. I

want to say one more thing to set the
record.

Set the stage for a f it's possible,

it's pretty likely that most of our
listeners do not care about Airtable.

Right? Because it's an enterprise software
tool.

Sure. Sure, sure.

Now you may maybe you

use it. It's like basically enterprise
Excel,

like AI, weird. It's like it's I don't
know.

Anyway, that's fine. Also, you may have
never heard of bending spoons.

I just want to be clear that this is the
company's that is most determined

to destroy the internet and all of the
tools on it.

Okay. And you said something

Yes.

about and I want you to explain all the
things you're gonna explain,

but I don't want you to go too far.

Yeah. Yeah.

You said

Vimeo is mostly fine. They bought Vimeo
and laid off almost everyone.

Okay, go on. There you go. Okay,

Okay, so that is just spoilers.

Spoilers. Spoilers.

go ahead.

So it was founded in twenty thirteen.

It's a Milan-based tech company.

They did, as we you learned after last
week's episode,

and I want to make clear they went public
recently.

And so they are a publicly traded company.

They had a eighteen billion dollar IPO.

So now they're publicly traded.

And they have acquired companies like,

as I mentioned, Event Evernote,

WeTransfer, Vimeo, Meetup, Kamut,

Brightcove, Remini.

Event or did I say event right?

AOL

A O L. Yep.

and now Airtable. And here's the thing:

this is the business model of bending
spoons.

And this is stated on their website.

This is not like conjecture. This is what
they claim their their business model is.

It is to acquire digital businesses,

then implement deep transformations and
ongoing optimizations.

That's code for laying people off.

And raising subscriptions to expand
earnings,

then reinvest those earnings into more
acquisitions,

a compounding cycle. So this is this is
what Bending Spoons says.

This is what they do. They acquire a
business,

they make they try to make money from that
business,

however means necessary, take the money
that they earn from that and do

it to the next planet. It's like
astrophage or like the aliens from
Independence

Day. They can

Yes, that's what

it's like, is the aliens from Independence
Day.

It it's like they it's exactly that.

They consume the resources of a company,

leave it for dead or whatever,

they don't care, and go on.

Well, and it there's little bit of nuance
to it to what they do

is 'cause this started with Evernote,

which was

Yes.

one of the most beloved products that had
been created to that point because

it was so unique. It

Yes.

it seems silly at this point 'cause
there's a million things that

are like the original idea for Evernote,

but it was so and its killer feature at
the time was that its OCR

was better than anything else.

Yes. Yes.

Okay. So there's

that. They buy something.

They essentially lay off all the
engineering employees and sales employees

and everyone else, centralize all of that
in Italy,

could where they have their team,

right? So they basically

Yes.

have now you have a product brand that is
being managed centrally,

and then they raise prices on consumers
because they typically have gone

for brands where they have a niche and
they have a concentrated set of users who,

for whatever reason, it would be hard for
those users to move to something else,

right?

So another

Right.

example that didn't make any of the news
because no one really cares is they

own a piece of software called Loomly,

which is a social ~ media management tool
where you can connect

all your social media. It's like you know,

~ Buffer or Hootsuite or Sprout or any of
those types of things.

And you what they did when they bought it
is they raised the annual price from

roughly seven ish hundred dollars a year
to twenty seven hundred dollars a year.

And what they knew is all of your social
media data from the last 10 years isn't

not maybe not 10

is in this. You don't want to lose all
those analytics.

You want to just keep paying for it
because it's you can't possibly export it.

So that is their model. Lay off all the
people they're paying.

Have a small group of people in Italy who
are doing all the engineering work,

which means you don't get features or bug
fixes because it's one small group

of people doing this. And then you

Yes.

raise prices on consumers.

Yes. And this has been a clear pattern.

And as Jason said, so when they acquire a
company,

they cut a bunch of people, they gut the
free tiers and jack the price

on paid tiers. So Evernote as an example,

they're maximizing revenue, not customers.

They don't care if they lose customers as
long as the revenue is higher.

And so they would raise that to like two
hundred and fifty dollars for some

of the pro features in Evernote.

And Evernote last

They lost 129 staff people. ~ Wii
transfer.

There were a bunch of cuts once ~ Bending
Spoons acquired Wii transfer.

And last year, Bending Spoons took on over
1,800 staff from the AOL,

Eventbrite, and Vimeo deals, and plan to
only have a few hundred expected

to remain by the end of this year,

2026. So from 1,800 employees to a few
hundred,

they're gonna lay off.

A vast, vast majority of people because
again,

they don't care about the numbers of
people using the products that they
acquire.

They only care about profitability,

jacking the price up on the people who
will pay for it.

And so that is their pattern. That's what
they do.

And so when you hear that a company like
Airtable is going to it

was acquired by Bending Spoons,

like I I've not used Airtable a lot
personally.

Inside baseball, Apple will use like
Airtable forms like

Some things like ~ podcast show feature
requests.

Like there's air table forms for it.

So you can like upload documents or
whatever.

And I I'd not used Airtable for a long
time,

but I had a bunch of people that would ask
me,

Can you make shortcuts for Airtable?

Because they have a great open API that's
on the free plan and it would all works.

And so actually I did that this week in my
shortcuts community during

my live stream this past Wednesday.

I shared a shortcut that lets you just add
rows to an Airtable and

With a shortcut and it can it'll be for
free and it's great.

But now I'm like, what if it follows the
pattern that Evernote that

we transfer that the pattern that Bending
Spoons has adopted,

Airtable, likely in the near future,

the free tier will probably suck because
they're gonna strip features from that.

They'll jack up the price on whatever the
premium tiers are,

and they won't care how many users use
Airtable.

They just want the few that use it who
will pay the most amount of money to
remain.

That is their stated plain goal on their
website.

And so that is why when a company is
acquired by Bending Spoons,

it's probably not a great outlook for the
future of that company.

And that's why it's

Yeah.

unfortunate.

And okay, and just two things.

One, first of all, like I think I always
Bending Spoons makes me think

of that Stephen King miniseries,

The Langoliers, which like where they come
and they eat the time.

Like I just feel like Bending Spoons is
just waiting to like eat up

Sure. Yes.

a company kind of thing. The car

dead carcass of a company that they've
yeah.

But

From an investment perspective,

it's not hard to see why investors poured
money into this because investors

are ruthless. They're just looking for a
return.

And bending spoons is very good at that.

But what that what they do is they destroy
products that people really love

to use because they don't care.

Yes. Right.

So that like it

they are not a bad business model in the
sense that,

like, from a fundamental perspective of
business,

cutting costs and raising find you know,

what they're doing is they're finding the
the their pricing power.

And a lot of these companies maybe are
underpriced what from what they could,

right? And they're

Right.

okay with shedding off some of their
customers because they're just gonna find
them

that b equilibrium of like, this is the pr
price that we should charge

to get the maximum number of customers who
will pay that price.

And yes, some people won't, but it will
make up for it by the increase in price.

In that sense, like, yeah, that just seems
like smart business.

A lot of these companies maybe were
charging too little.

That's totally separate from the fact that
the customers love those products

and now hate

Right.

what has happened.

And if you ever need to hear someone
really share their feelings about
Evernote,

William Gallagher back on Apple Insider,

he was diehard Evernote user. And even as
it was getting worse and worse,

he kept using it because he didn't have a
good alternative for

the features he wanted. And he was just
really upset.

And like, sure, he could find another app,

but like I use Vimeo. I use Vimeo
personally because again

in my shortcuts community, I offer ad free

Versions of my videos. And I don't want to
do that through YouTube

and create an unlisted link. So I do it
through Vimeo because I

can control things like where the video is
embedded if it shows up on Vimeo.com.

Great privacy controls. And I've used
Vimeo for years in commercial settings

as well. I use it when I was making
websites for people.

I used it for like corporate type stuff.

Like Vimeo was really good. And once
Bending Spoons acquired it,

I'm like, it just makes me not want to
rely on Vimeo a whole lot because

it might not.

be around in its current state very much
longer.

And I will know like every time I log into
Vimeo,

I'm like, this looks weird. Like it's
telling me about weird features

and it's like wanting me to like pay more
for things that I don't really care about.

But it's because Bending Spoons is just
trying to get the highest paid customers

to remain and they don't care what happens
to the free customers because

you don't matter to them. That's sad.

So that's why Bending Spoons is bad.

Hopefully that explained it. If you have
questions about Bending Spoons,

or you absolutely love what they've done
with the place.

So when it comes to Evernote, you can let
us know in the comments.

But I don't I don't think so. I don't
think so.

Also Event Eventbrite. Is there a good
alternative to Eventbrite?

Isn't there like brush fires? Thank you.

Apple Apple events is great. Or Apple
invites

I mean is fantastic. I I almost mean

Thank you. Honestly, thank you.

that.

Thank you. That was a perfect perfect
response for that.

All right, before we get to personal tech,

I need to know Jason's ~ habits on expose
and window management on the Mac.

But I do want to specify that Europe,

they are pushing for more AI labeling and
transparency.

So as we just talked about all the weird
Google AI stuff and Google Maps

and that terribleness, ~ at least the EU
for you know all that they

do and relates to like the the Digital
Markets Act and all of that.

They are trying to make it so you have to
say when something is AI generated,

that when it's fully or partially AI made.

And yeah, disclose I think disclosure
labels are good.

Bar none. And I even see, I think on
Instagram there was a recent video that

was going around and I was like,

is this AI? I wasn't sure. And Instagram
did in fact have an AI label.

But let me tell you, it was very,

very small. And it was like in the
farthest top left corner,

like

half hidden under the profile icon of the
count who shared it and I was like,

Okay, I guess I'm glad it's there,

but no literally no one can see this.

And so the AI the EU is specifying like
here's what the icon needs to look like.

And it's a big letters and AI,

a black circle and it needs to be on the
content and users can mark ~ stuff

if they believe it's AI. LinkedIn has even
launched new tools recently where users

can say, I think this is I'm pretty sure
this is AI generated.

And so LinkedIn is trying to get ~

More serious about it. So there's some
there's some guardrails happening ish,

maybe. We'll see if they stick.

We'll see if it works.

Some ish.

Some ish. Did Claude Code ever identify
what ~ is

Let's see where we're at.

is still working? Did you put Fable on
this or did you put just Opus?

hold on, here we go. Wow.

~

shoot, I'm kinda scared now.

The honest headline, Steven almost never
trashes a product on threads.

In three years, there are only 40 posts
with any negative language at all,

and most of the harsh ones did become
videos.

Switchbots, Universal Remote, the most
frustrating piece of tech this year.

Sonos

Wow.

Ace, a disappointed review. Fine woven,

a case round of iPhone Air. He returned
it,

but still published three reasons not for
everyone.

So the genuine list of orphans is short.

Interesting. Panda never made the video.

Weird Wait, what was it?

Alexa sh

It says here's a list of the things that
says where you panned it,

but you never and you never made the
video.

~ pandit.

Amazon Alexa

Echo Show, Alexa Plus, Sony's six hundred
and fifty dollar headphones,

Apple Podcasts, Subscriber Tier,

Roadcaster Pro 2 firmware, MacBook Air
without built-in cellular.

That's not an actual product. I mean,

No, sorry Claude. No.

it's just taking posts that you said
something about and then didn't.

It's I mean it did a lot of work here.

Videos

That's a lot of work.

he explicitly promised and never
delivered.

A cara FP300 presence sensor.

Food Nom's Vision Pro Purchase.

Video about this this weekend most likely
never surfaced.

~ wait, the very

So w was this open?

silly Vision Pro Purchase. Something you
talked about in February fourth,

two thousand twenty six, and you promised
a video this weekend

but it never happened.

Interesting. It's claiming I made a lot of
promises.

Some of those I actually delivered.

~ the did you put Opus on or Fable?

Listen, I don't know. ~ that was Opus V.

Opus Fi. No,

Listen, I'm not burning a million tokens
on this,

no, no, I know, I know. Well,

okay?

I think it's issue a couple of things I
think is interesting of that.

One, I forgot about that switch bot
remote.

That was a video I made that I was I
didn't like the product and I actually
made it.

Those Sony headphones I did put in a
video.

It was a roundup. And I don't think I
didn't put the name explicitly in

the title of the video. ~ so maybe it
didn't catch that.

And the Accara FP three hundred,

I never made a dedicated video about,

but I've talked about it in probably two
videos where I talk about other smart home

products. So I think it's inter that's
interesting.

Like I understand it's indexing like the
highest level stuff,

but it did find like the Alexa show.

I totally bought that. And I talked about
it,

I think, on this sh on the podcast,

but I did not make a video about it.

And so it did it did some good work there
and some it it kind of missed

the what I did. But no, it's good.

That's interesting. Panned it.

That's a weird la it's weird language that
that Claude uses sometimes.

Like pandit, co anyway. It talks weird.

It it talks weird. I tal I have this
conversation

with Claude all the time. Dude,

people don't talk like that.

Stop talk stop talking weird. ~ Merlin
Mann.

Stop talking like a robot.

Merlin Mann was on Mac Power Users and
he's a very divisive character,

but he has these in depth ~ instructions
for how Clodge or Chat GPT should talk.

And it is very funny, like all the
intricate ways he says,

like, don't say this, keep track of how
many times you say this word,

and if it's high, stop saying it.

Like he goes he went in deep 'cause he
really doesn't like how it talks to him.

And so that's pretty funny.

And

my least favorite thing right now about
Claude or any of these is that they

use phrases that are similar to things
like okay,

I read an email from a journalist who I
think is very,

very good.

Yes.

And in their email it used a phrase that I
see all the time from Claude.

It's like and it's the phrase,

that's the take, or that's the that's the
thing,

that's the whatever. And I'm like,

I read it in someone's

newsletter. Now, I'm not accusing this
person of having used Claude

Right, right,

or Chad GPT or whatever. But my problem my
point is like,

~ the take writes itself.

That's what the person wrote. I'm like,

that's exactly the way an A an LLM would
have worded that.

And the problem with that is

Yeah.

now in my mind I'm like, did you use did
you use someone to write this?

And I don't think that they did.

I'm again not accusing this person.

But what I hate is when it like

Incepts the idea.

it sort of adopts

these things, but they're very opinionated
ways of saying a thing.

Yeah.

And now

it's like now when you see that somewhere
else,

you I don't like it. I I just don't like
it.

I don't either. We need our bonus
episode's gonna be about this
tangentially.

It's the dash problem. I've been writing
with

The dash problem.

dashes for so long, I'm gonna keep using
them.

But every time you use one, someone is
gonna be like,

today I write this.

It's it seems like it more and more.

All right, so th our bonus episode's gonna
be good.

We're gonna get to that. ~ but for
personal tech,

in our pre show, we were talking about how
many windows is too many windows that

are open on your Mac. And you said you
don't use spaces,

but you use expose and you have hot
corners.

One, what are your hot corners programmed
to?

And how like t tell our listeners again,

like your minimization technique.

Well okay, so I'm a I'm a I think it's
called expose is the one where

it shows you everything on your screen.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

So I'm a power u a mission control power
user and my

Yeah. Mission control

is like you see the spaces up at the top
and all the windows.

I feel like that's mission control.

It's I think mission control

is just its way of like window managing ~
like moving things around kind of stuff.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I

use the upper right corner, shows me every
window.

I like that.

Okay.

I think there's also an option to just
show windows from that app.

I don't ever care about that. ~ so it
shows me every window.

Upper left corner shows me my desktop.

Those are the only two I really care
about.

I in ~ I think you by default the lower
right is a quick note,

which is a stupid thing I to have as a

is a hot key f or hot wind or corner or
whatever.

So I don't

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

use that at all. I also some don't use the
bottom two corners because there's enough

times when I'm using my laptop with the
lid open where I want to be able

to move and I don't want to like fight
between moving from one screen

to the other and hi and initiating a hot
corner thing.

Right, right,

So

I don't I use the the expose to show my
show my desktop or to show

all the windows all the time. Because if I
want to basically I have

This is probably gonna set Steven off.

He's not prepared for this.

I don't know.

I have drives sh mount on my desktop so I
can quickly access them.

And so it's not a thumbs down.

Thumbs down. Thumb thumbs down.

It's totally normal behavior. And so

Thumbs down.

that's how I click to the I I will go up
to the left corner and I will click

on something because I use my desktop as a
desktop.

It's where I have things that I'm gonna
use that I just downloaded.

Go to. Because if I walked into my office
and I was gonna work on something,

I would set it on the desktop.

So

That's fine. And then I will put them
somewhere when I'm done.

I don't leave them there forever.

And that's the reason I don't like the
downloads folder,

is because stuff just stays there forever
for most people.

So I will use the show my desktop if I
need to either look at my to-do list,

which is a widget, or if I need to like
click on one of those drives

or click on something that's on here.

And then I use the upper right corner to
show me all the windows if

I'm just going back and forth between
things,

right? And typically, so we talked about
this.

I use, I don't know if this is what it's
called,

but I use the cascading overlap.

That's just the way I define every window

Yeah, I like that. I like that.

should sort of like kind of cascade and
overlap so that you can see enough

of the windows behind. Like right now,

I can see I don't know why my mail app is
open.

I don't know why Fantastic L is open,

but I can see them enough that if I needed
to get to them,

I could click on it. There's a

Right.

cloud window up there because we were
talking about it.

I have this window, and then I also have a
separate Brave window because

I don't want to I want to always be able
to see this conversation.

If I click on it, I want to be

Right. Right.

Going through tabs or whatever.

And so I can just get to any of those
things.

And from any window I'm on, I can see all
the other ones,

just a little tiny bit, and I can click on
them.

But sometimes I didn't do that very well.

And so I need to be able to see all the
windows.

And the question I asked Steven when we
started the bonus episode was:

what is the number of windows?

At which point you start to get anxiety
from having too many windows open.

And I've decided I think the number for me
is five.

Yeah, so I I'm with you on the number of
windows.

Let me just say I use zero hot corners.

None. And I don't do any widgets on

my desktop because I will put widgets in
the today,

like the notification center on the Mac.

But my desktop, I try to keep it as clean
as possible.

I will put files that I'm immediately
going to use,

like the photos that I shared at the
beginning of the show.

Those were image files that are on my
desktop and I'm gonna delete them right
after

this.

I use the downloads folder because I'm in
there all the time,

because I'm downloading the video files of
this recording and MacPower users.

And because I'm in there all the time,

I do like clean it as I go. So I use the
downloads folder also because

the downloads folder is not syncing to
iCloud,

and I don't want eight gig files landing
on my desktop and then trying

to sync iCloud while maybe I want other
things syncing to iCloud.

So I use my downloads folder, minimal
desktop usage.

I hide all my drives because I have a
folder called working on my desktop where

I will throw random stuff. This is why I
just have one folder on my desktop

and not a bunch of things. And if I
double-click that folder,

I have access to the full finder,

or I can just, you know, command tab over
to finder and then command N

for a new window. But my main interaction
with expose and spaces,

and this is one of the reasons why I still
use the magic mouse,

even though everybody hates it,

I do a two-finger double tap.

So two finger double tap immediately goes
into expose so I can see

all the windows currently, like I'm doing
it right now.

I do it as I share the screen throughout
the show.

And I can also put my mouse up at the top
of the screen and see my spaces.

And so right now I have two spaces.

My main space, which is like my default,

I have probably unadvisedly four social
media apps open in four little columns

across the bottom of the screen.

I have messages open in the top left.

I have mail open. And if I'm doing
something in the web,

I'll probably have Safari open with my
BeardFM profile.

So that's like my home base where I will
communicate,

check mail, whatever. And then I will
typically have a second space with only

one or two apps that I call my like I'll
be actively working.

So I might have Bear open. I might have
can do,

my new task app. I'll have that open.

And I might have like a different Safari
window that I'm about to use in

a video or something. So I'll have that
second space that's open.

And if I'm working on video stuff,

I probably have Final Cut open.

And that I run as a full screen app on my
Mac Studio.

Because I actually I like that in full
screen mode.

And so when I double two-finger tap on my
magic mouse,

I can go between probably those three or
four spaces with Final Cut being

a full screen app. And I will also
two-finger swipe left and right.

to go between those spaces and I've been
doing that I do that as we record.

I do it all the time. So I'm like,

I'm looking at us, I'm looking at Notion
and our links for this show

and I'll two finger swipe over and I have
my mail messages and other stuff

or another web browser that I might do
something else in.

So that's that's my setup. Does any of
that sound crazy to you?

No, the only thing I didn't address is
like I don't minimize very many.

So I hide things. If I don't want to see
it right now,

like I we were talking and then I was
like,

why is my mail app open? So I just command
H,

hide it. So it's it's still open,

it's still running in the background.

It just I don't need to be looking at it
right now,

but it'll bounce back as soon as I need
it.

I don't minimize that. Now I know you
minimize things into the app,

which is essentially the same thing as
hiding.

There's look there's literally no
difference there.

So essentially what you're doing is

Yeah.

minimizing into the doc it minimizing into
the app i ~ icon instead of into the doc

Yes.

is hiding, essentially. So we're doing it
the same way.

I guess it I guess it is hiding,

right? Like

Yeah. And

so I think the only difference is that if
you have multiple windows

of something open the way you do it,

I think you can long click on the icon.

No, I can still do the same thing.

It just pulls up a context menu and I can
pull up each of the different things.

Yeah.

It does seem like it. So okay,

so how I yeah, I've minimizing set to apps
minimize into their doc icon.

So when I minimize a Safari window or
mail,

it doesn't show as another little icon in
my doc all the way on the right.

It just goes into the app. And I do that
because like for Safari,

I will have three Safari windows open in
the background.

One is my Beard FM profile, which I do my
YouTube stuff.

I have a primary tech profile,

I have a MacPower Users profile.

And then depending on what work I'm doing,

I'll open that Safari window which has all
the tabs for that task,

for that project. And so I don't want
three Safari windows minimized on the
dock,

so it minimizes to the app icon.

And I g I guess it does really feel like
hide and minimize.

The only difference is no, I just hit the
brave window.

Wait a minute. No. Okay.

I can I can still see you.

The

only difference is I guess you don't get
to minimize animation if you hide,

you know.

I'm

okay with that.

I have the genie effect. So it like goes
into the app and will come out of the app.

That's why he kept saying it hides into
the icon,

It hides into the app, that's right.

because it literally goes into the icon.

But hiding is basically the same thing,

yeah.

Well, and so and I use minimize s as a
separate reason.

So I do minimize some things into the doc.

And I do that because so right now audio
hijack is minimized into the doc.

And the reason for that is I will see that
it's there and be like,

shoot, I should stop the recording and
then I need to send it to Steve.

Like right, where if I just hit it,

because I don't

We won't get into this again, but I don't
use the obnoxious dots in

the bottom of the icons in my in the dock,

right? So to me though, in some ways,

this is a reminder. It's like,

~ right now for what I'm doing,

I don't want any of this stuff in my face.

But I do actually need to come back to
that browser window,

or I do need to come back to that.

So if I've clicked the yellow button and
minimized it into my doc,

it's just and to be clear, this is an area
of the dots on the thing I

do have strong feelings about.

But the other things I would explain to
someone how I do it.

But would not be in any way surprised if
someone's like this actually makes more

sense to my brain. My thing is like
whatever way makes it so you don't have
friction

for doing what you're doing, go ahead and
just do that.

That's it. Exactly.

There are like

there are good reasons for why you do it
the way you're doing.

There's I don't hate spaces. The only
thing I hate about spaces is that

I often end up with 12 or 13 blank spaces
because if I hit the corner

for the expose and I leave it there for a
second,

it shows me the little plus icon.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And if I'm too quick

to click on something, I end up with like
a whole row of blank spaces up there.

That's the only thing I don't like about
spaces.

Yeah, and I am I'm very aggressive at
closing spaces I'm not using

and because I'm switching between the
spaces all the time,

if I had a bunch of blank spaces,

then I have like multiple swipes to get to
final cut,

which will be like at the end of the
spaces chain.

And I don't care for that. So I will close
as I go.

But yeah, that's interesting. Okay.

So that's how we use our Mac. Let us know.

Leave us a five star rating and review in
Apple Podcasts.

Spaces on the Mac, do you do it?

Minimize it windows to the app icon.

We'd love to hear from you. We're trying
to get to five hundred five star reviews.

So we would appreciate that. You can watch
or listen to us on YouTube,

in Apple Podcasts, in Spotify,

subscribe and follow all the things.

And I appreciate all of you who support
the show.

We're gonna go record a bonus episode
about well-known online personality,

Hank Green, and his ~ faux pas maybe about
AI,

or is it really a faux pas? We're gonna
get into that the bonus episode.

There's a link down in the show notes,

and you can click it and get the bonus and
become a member for $2.50 a month

or $25 a year. ~

And we appreciate all of you who are
members who do that.

Thanks for listening. Thanks for watching.

We'll catch you next time.