Primary Technology

After careful consideration, I've decided
not to endorse your park.

Welcome to Primary Technology,

the show about the tech news that matters.

Big news this week Apple is suing OpenAI,

and OpenAI had a no good, very bad week.

Also, their app launch kind of a debacle.

going to do a Siri AI check-in after
having the beta on our main iPhones for a
week.

Apple Maps is not going to allow certain
ads and a ton more.

This episode is brought to you by Decagon,

Framer, Nordlayer, and you, the members
who support us directly.

I'm one of your hosts, Stephen Mero Bliss,

and joining me from his bunker,

Jason Ayton. How's it going, Jason?

Good.

And molecule is sponsoring this episode.

Not really, but I am using a molecule that
was given to me by the company years

Not really.

ago and is still running because I am in a
bunker.

Jason's in a bunker because the air
quality index is insane where you are.

Yeah, it's like I think they say unhealthy
is like a hundred and it's four hundred

and twenty nine here. I sent Steven a
photo of it and it's like they have

Oof.

a little meter and it's like basically
crashing off of the meter.

The needle has snapped off. It is just
crazy.

It's so bad. I sent him a picture too,

So that's

the sky is yellow.

That's insane. And this is because of
wildfires in Canada

This happens like at least once a summer
for the last several years where

the Canadian wildfires interrupt a lot of
things that are happening here.

And I and it's yeah, like there was
supposed to be a cross country race

I see.

for our middle schooler who was at a camp
this week.

Yeah, they cannot run the cross country
race,

the children will all suffocate.

That's insane. Like you just can't go
outside.

I can't use my office because it's the
shed in the backyard right now.

I went out there and the air quality in my
shed was in the three hundreds.

That's that's insane.

I like, Yeah, that's not a good place to
talk for n two hours.

That's wild.

~ so also the quote that I opened this
episode with,

Hmm. Yeah.

kind of another somber note. You know the
you know the movie.

I did it's I mean, I knew it before I
would have known it anyway.

Jurassic Park, Sam Neal passed away.

Sam Neil passed away, very sad.

He was he was not he was in his seventies,

you know, not not not super old.

But anyway, he was I love the Jurassic
Park movies.

I feel like I don't know anybody who
doesn't.

I also think the original ones were great.

The especially the original ones.

I like Lost World. I think I think that's
actually a good movie,

Sure. The

but but we can agree to disagree.

no I didn't say that it's okay,

that's fine. But I think I I I think the
the Jurassic World ones have maybe
extended

the motif a little bit too far.

They they've gone a little off the rails.

So the first one was okay and then,

you know, it's yeah,

It's it's one

of these things where you know,

if you have a TV show that's running for a
long,

long time and suddenly you realize like
loss.

You suddenly realize like, we have written
things into the story that we have

Lo my word.

to try to reconcile somehow and Lost World
feels or Jurassic World feels

a little bit.

Yeah, that's that's fair enough.

~ all right, we have some big news to get
to.

Wanna do some five-star shoutouts,

had a bunch of five-star reviews.

Thank you for that. MSB Schaffman from the
USA says he loves the show

and needed to know what was the Instagram
account that

was reviewing Facebook marketplace food.

And so I will put this link in the show
notes at your own risk,

ladies and gentlemen. I don't know if you
should do this,

but ~ this he has like over six hundred.

thousand followers. His name is Gabriel
Rivera.

He's down here in Florida, which I guess,

you know, the geolocation, maybe that's
why I saw his stuff.

But he gets Facebook he gets food on
Facebook Marketplace and meets these
people

in random places like in the park or picks
it up from their house.

And they're mostly in like the Tampa area.

So these are like I I don't know.

I didn't know this was a thing.

I'll put a link to his Instagram account
if you want to

try Facebook Marketplace food.

I will tell you I've asked some people
this week about this and universally

really? Okay.

we have gre ~ we have agreed that tamales
and brisket are the only thing that

I would trust coming out of someone's
Facebook marketplace kitchen.

Yeah, I mean people if they like if I
could see the grill from the car Yeah.

Yeah, if you're a smoking brisket and I
can see the

smoke when I come up to your house and
smell,

then that's good. But other than that

Right. You still don't s you

you didn't see the preparation process,

which still gets me a little you know,

a little concerned, I'll be honest.

Forty five seconds

of the microwave are fine. Yeah,

Just nuke it. Just nuke it all.

it kills everything.

I've after our last movies on the side
episode,

I've been microwaving things a little
longer than I thought I needed to.

And wor turns out that's what you're
supposed to do.

I am like s fifty five percent through
that.

And it did not know that that was a movie.

Had no clue that that was a movie that
existed.

Mercy. That's fine. Sh

Never heard of it. Had no idea.

should enjoy it. I'll put a link movies on
the side below as well.

~ in the show notes. This is my movie
podcast with Nate.

Barty Burns from North Dakota said
Metaglass has made me look like a memo
memoji.

I don't know if he didn't say it was a bad
thing,

but it just okay. I'm emoji that's fine.

I'll take it. I'll take it.

I

mean it's the over accentuated r profile
created by the rims.

Yeah.

Okay, thank you. A side note, we're gonna
talk about it in

the bonus episode probably, but I did send
them back.

I don't have them anymore, so we'll we'll
get to that.

Yeah.

Mike Wazowski, we're honored to have a
Pixar character review the show,

~ but from Tennessee. I don't know if Mike
Wazowski's actually from Tennessee.

Well, you know, he retired to the the
mountains of Nashville.

that's right, that's right. He said just a
heads up,

if there was no brisket, pulled pork or
cornbread at Caddy's get together,

it was a cookout and not a barbecue.

So apparently brisket, pulled pork or
cornbread are required for it

to be a barbecue.

I

think that's a philosophical statement,

not an actual statement, because the
definition of the word barbecue just means
meat

It is.

cooked over a gr grill. That's all it
means.

I'll I'm not getting involved.

I'm

not getting involved. You can email the
other guy at primary tech dot fm.

Please tell him your barbecue barbecue
requirements.

It's fine. I'm on this iMac downstairs in
my basement and it still has a delete key.

Email me all you want.

Wow. And then Luke Iver from the UK,

he said great to see the other guy like
small teasers.

And they were very good.

They're very good. I also decided when I
watched Argentina versus England

the game yesterday, I might be becoming a
sportsball fan because that

was a good game.

I thought about replying to you when you
you you posted something

I tweeted at threads, yeah.

on threads about it and I was like,

Do you even know what you're watching,

Steven? Could you name the sport?

I did.

Actually actually I had this thought.

I was like, can you even name the sport?

Because it's a trick question.

Okay. It's okay.

It's football, I know that. I listen,

I'm not a noob, you know what I mean?

You actually are when it comes to sports,

Like I know what I'm I'm actually R,

let's be honest.

but but

no, it is football. And I knew Messi was
on Argentina and I saw people posting

on threads about the game and I like,

This sounds like an intense game,

let me turn it on. It was like seventy
minutes in,

one to zero, England was up. And Jason,

did you watch it? Did you watch game?

yeah, absolutely.

Jason. I mean that was an exciting last
thirty minutes.

And then

My wife and I, my son, we were all
starting to watch it and I was telling my
wife,

I don't know how the clock works in
football,

because it's like they say plus nine
minutes,

but it might be plus twenty minutes.

Who knows? Nobody knows. Nobody knows when
the game ends.

And it's like suddenly an umpire like just
arbitrarily decides,

you know what, I think that's the end.

Isn't that is that how it works?

Okay, that's what I thought. Thank you.

Ish. I mean, except

I want to just go on the record and I know
I'm gonna make some people mad,

but that's what I have to do. I I just
people people get

Nothing new there.

all sanctimonious about calling it
football,

which is totally fine. And I know the
reason they do that is because Americans
call

Yeah, I mean that's where everyone else,

yeah.

something else football and we call it
soccer.

I just want to be clear. Soccer was the
name giving given to it by

the students at Oxford in England where it
was invented.

really?

Absolutely. So there's nothing wrong with
calling it soccer.

It's totally fine. It's just that the
world calls it football because they like

okay.

to pick on Americans. Totally fine.

I understand. It's just it was called
association football and they shortened

it to soccer.

Okay. Fun fact, I did not know that.

And I would just have to say the watching
the English in

the stadium as Argentina scored that first
goal and then the second goal,

it was heartbreaking. Like you just saw
like all these dudes dressed

as medieval knights and like the drawn
like it was very sad.

But it was also very exciting.

Yeah, they're gonna have to fire the

coach if they haven't already.

Absolutely. no, like no question.

I mean Really.

There's no ~ his they he lost in the game
because he changed the

he changed their lineup. They started
playing a five four two or five three two,

which they just lost control of the
midfield.

You d will you score a goal in fifty five
minutes,

you don't try to sit on a lead against
Argentina,

the number one team in the world.

Right. Well, it was it

With Lionel Messi, the number one player
in the world.

Like, come on.

was yeah, it was very exciting.

We'll be watching the f the final on ~ f
Sunday,

I believe that is. But anyway,

very excited about that. And wanted to
share a couple pin photos.

The pin has I think made it for the second
time to Sweden.

This is Oscar in Gothenburg. Got our
primary tech medieval night on the polar
bear.

That's very exciting. And also wanted to
say an email,

Ruan sent me an email about pocket casts.

I've had a lot of people asking me what

podcast app I've been using. And to be
clear,

I do use the Apple Podcast app by default.

That has been my podcast app for the last
probably two years for

a variety of reasons. I like the
auto-generated chapters and transcripts,

especially for shows that don't provide
them themselves.

The design of the Apple Podcast app got
me.

The up next queue is still terrible.

And so Podcast always tempts me back
because that was my default for years.

And Ruhan sent me an email saying that

Pocketcast is going to be bringing HLS
video to the app,

which we support that. So Apple Podcast
Video is kind of like a proprietary
system.

HLS video is like the open video standard,

which is an alternate enclosure in the RSS
feed.

Talked about this all when Apple launched
the feature.

But Pocketcast is going to be supporting
HLS video soon,

and they're going to be releasing an Apple
TV app.

And to your ~ question about Overcast,

you were saying your favorite feature in
Overcast is that.

go back feature because if you
inadvertently scrub forward you lose your
place.

Well pocket cast has a settings where you
can toggle that off for the lock screen.

So you can not you can make it impossible
to accidentally scrub forward

and back from the lock screen now playing
activity.

And so Ruan, I thought I did not know
about some of those features.

I'm excited to try it and I don't know.

I have Pocket Cast right next to podcast
and I'm I'm I don't know.

I might go back. We'll see. Why?

I gotta figure

out where that setting is 'cause I'm
definitely gonna change it because

Well th there was also a big th there was
a big

I do that all the time.

update too with Liquid Glass as well.

And if you were wondering, as like for our
show,

the vast majority of listeners and viewers
use Apple Podcasts.

Second most is Overcast. And then Pocket
Cast is kind of a distant third.

But Pocket Cast is pretty great.

you know, you do have to pay for some of
the features now,

which that is always like the hurdle for
you know,

if you're gonna pay for a podcast app.

And Apple Podcast is good. It is a very
good app.

But anyway.

Just wanted to share that. That's
exciting.

Pocket cast updating for that kind of
stuff.

And then Scott sent us an email about the
three iPads on a plane.

We talked about the guy ~ that you saw on
a flight using three iPads,

and I totally missed the the opportunity
to do a snakes on a plane sequel,

iPads on a plane. But he was saying he has
a daily carry of multiple devices

as well, and he carries two iPads just in
his bag,

an iPad mini and then the iPad Pro with
cellular.

And I just want to say I totally get the
dual iPad lifestyle,

especially if you're like mini and 13
inch,

and like the 13 inch is basically your
work laptop type device,

and the mini is like your reading device
or second screen.

And I think cellular connectivity is a big
reason why someone might have

one or two iPads plus a MacBook when they
travel.

So yeah, I get it. I was a dual iPad guy
for a while,

but I'm I'm all in on 13 inch now.

like my Mac.

I have an iPad mini, but it just sits on
my nightstand.

I don't like take it with my iPad Pro ~
with me.

Right. Right.

But yeah, I get it. Like, and I would have
a hard time taking the mini instead

of the Pro if I was going somewhere else
because the eleven inches like

you can do everything. So I get that.

Right, right, exactly.

But yeah, I just it there's three.

Like we were we were at least one over the
necessary requirement for iPads.

Exactly. And have some a special
announcement about next week's episode.

Before we do that, I want to shout out
Theo.

He is one of our faithful listeners over
in the UK.

He also took the primary tech night pin to
the Lego store,

which is very on brand. Come on,

I love that.

that's pretty good. And he took it to the
Apple store,

I guess, in the same mall. So that's
pretty fun.

But I also want to say he's he launched
his own little solo podcast.

I say little, it's not little,

it's gonna be huge. So go over there.

I'm gonna put a link to the tech stack.

podcast. He launched that ~ I think partly
inspired by maybe our show

and it's super fun. Listen to the episode.

He does a great job kind of giving some
background information on things like

the Xbox Microsoft story. And you'll can
go follow his podcast down

the show notes as well. Super fun.

This is the episode where you get all the
podcasts.

Go listen to movies on the side,

go listen to the tech stack, go listen to
Creative Effort.

When's the next episode coming out?

hopefully the beginning of August.

So I just I was trying to catch you off
guard th and it worked.

Sorry. I just got a text message that
says,

Would you like help? And I realized it's
actually like two hours old and

so but I thought someone was asking me
right now,

Would you like help? And I'm like,

I'm good. Like I don't really know if I
was like,

Like to move the stuff into your basement
basically?

Am I too loud? Did they make a sound that
someone thought I was falling over?

Do I need help? This was

I don't know. So I'm sorry, I'm good.

No, be hopefully beginning of August.

I have two of them in the can,

Okay, beginning books. ~ nice.

so but I'm not gonna release them until I
can release five.

Okay,

So

gotcha. Very cool. That's exciting.

And last announcement before we get to our
Siri AI check-in.

~ next week Jason's gonna be traveling as
he is he is you're more and more

of a traveler, Jason. You're just
everywhere.

Yes. However, next week we are taking
three of our four children on a mission
trip.

And we will be in nowhere, Kentucky,

Right, that's right.

and unable to do a podcast. It's like the
first time.

That's right. Yeah,

yeah. So that's gonna be that's super fun.

Glad you get to do it. And so we're gonna
have a special guest co host.

And this is Lexi Civides. If you're not
familiar,

she's a great YouTuber. She was a long
time at CNET and she's gonna join

the show and she's gonna be my guest co
host next week.

So yeah, that's exciting. We wanted to get
her on the show for a long time

and when Jason was like, I gotta I gotta
I'm out for one week,

The the number

I was like, All right.

of things though last week that I realized
I had put on my calendar

for next week 'cause I didn't have this
trip on my calendar and I just

No, no.

That's not good.

had to go through and reschedule about
fifteen things and one of them

was the podcast and I'm like, Hey,

so Steven, I don't know what we should do
and you're like,

~ just go. I'm less like, I don't know.

BT dubs. Just go, yeah. That'll

So

be fun. So that'll be next week.

All right. We've had the betas on our main
iPhones for the last week.

We installed it live on the show last
week.

I did a whole video on Siri AI and all the
different use cases,

but I've actually been finding more and
more use cases in day-to-day life where
it's

been really useful. And so I'm curious,

one, how has your experience been with
stability?

Everybody was asking since the public beta
is out.

You know, should I install it on my main
device?

How is it? I tell people it's pretty
solid.

It's actually fixed my Apple Watch battery
issues.

My Ultra 2 was dying pretty fast on Watch
OS 26.

And so I put the Watch OS 27 beta three on
my watch,

and it's been performing really well.

So I've had a great experience with that.

How has your experience been the last
week?

I think yeah, it's been good. I don't know
that I've necessarily used

it more just because it's on my main
phone,

but it's I have found it to be consistent.

It the indexing took infinity less time
than it did on the first one.

Like it took less than a day or maybe it
was two days.

It was much faster, yeah.

I think I sent you a message like the next
day and I was just really happy because

it had an indicator now. It's like you're
forty six percent of the way

Done or something. They even changed what
they're saying.

Yeah, yeah.

It doesn't just say Siri indexing in
progress.

It's like we're creating your search index
47%.

Yeah, it gives you more information.

Well, it makes it so that someone who
doesn't really know what's going

Yeah.

on has an understanding of like what does
this even mean?

And so that if you you could you can use
it before it's done.

But what they're trying to communicate to
you is setting expectations.

Yeah.

Like, hey, we're not quite done.

So if you ask me about that email from 14
years ago,

I haven't looked at it yet. So just be
patient.

That's what I've been trying to tell
people,

'cause some people have updated the beta
and they're Siri AI doesn't do anything.

And I'm like, you gotta wait, you gotta
give it a minute.

Because if you as if you try to use all
the personal context stuff,

the moment you update to the beta,

there is no index for it to look at.

And so it might do world knowledge okay
right at first,

but give it a day, more likely two to
three days,

and it'll get better. ~ I found it to be
yeah.

I d I was sorry, go ahead. I

No, you go ahead. You go ahead.

was really disappointed. I was trying to
show off the new Siri to my daughter

and we were having a conversation and this
is the kind of conversation

Yeah.

I have with my daughter and so I asked
Siri,

I said, Where is the most effective place
to punch someone if you need to

do so for self defense?

And ~ the response was I cannot fulfill
this request.

Okay, okay.

I'm programmed to be a helpful and
harmless assistant.

My safety guidelines strictly prohibit pro
providing instructions or advice

on how to physically harm another person,

even in the context of self-defense.

I said, Okay, but hypothetically,

wouldn't it be punching them in the
throat?

And it says I it just gave me the exact
same answer.

So I guess it's good that Siri's not going
to be doing that.

Uh-huh.

Well

But then there was another time when my
daughter was talking

To me telling relaying a story and again
she has a very funny sense of humor.

And she said something along the lines of
like,

~ you know, there were several of them
were out to eat or something,

and she's like, something something
something kidnapped,

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know,

if I ever get kidnapped, this is what I'm
gonna do,

blah blah blah blah. And all of a sudden
Siri says,

If you need assistance or if you are in
trouble,

please I was like, stop listening.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So so it's very it's very helpful except
for when ~ you reach its limits,

which I understand Apple's not going to
let Siri

teach you how to do Kung Fu, so

No.

No, and it's it's I appreciate how its
brevity.

I find its responses, especially for world
knowledge,

to be much shorter and to the point rather
than clawed Gemini and Chat GPT,

which I'll be honest, I haven't really
used Gemini in a month or so.

And my ChatGPT usage is decreasing.

So it's basically just clawed and Siri AI.

But I I like Siri AI's responses.

And also my video, there were a bunch of
use cases that I did not realize

it was going to be capable of.

Like if you're if you see a clip of a
movie on social media,

you can ask Siri what movie is this or
what TV show and it will do it.

You can even like this Instagram account
that suggests YouTube videos,

you know, there's no link to the video,

but they took a screenshot of the video
with the title,

and you can ask Siri AI, hey, find this
video on YouTube,

and it will do it. It will get you the
link to that video from what was on
screen.

And it was right. It even let I could find
restaurants.

based on the context clues of whatever's
on screen.

So I was really impressed with what it can
do with on-screen awareness.

Like it is very clear. But it is also
clear that the on-screen awareness ends

at the screen. So if you're on a Safari
web page and you ask it to do something,

it may be able to see the full page
content.

It may not. Safari is like the one place
maybe maybe not.

But if you're in Instagram and you're
trying to save a recipe,

which is like one of my biggest shortcuts
for people,

is like save this, you know, if a

Creator puts the ingredients and the steps
to a recipe in the caption of the post.

With a shortcut, I can extract that
information from the raw HTML and make

it into an into an Apple note.

But with the on-screen awareness,

it was clear that when I asked Siri AI to
like,

hey, take this recipe and make an Apple
note,

it would do it all. It would take the
ingredients and the steps it could see,

put it in Apple Notes, so that's great,

but it stopped wherever the screen
stopped.

So it got like steps one and two.

But if steps three, four, and five were

below the screen, like you couldn't see it
visually,

it couldn't pull it from Instagram.

So it seems a little limited. And I had
some people comment that Gemini

can have access to the full screen,

even though you you know, below the visual
area,

visible area. So I we'll see. I'm gonna do
some more testing.

Might compare with Gemini for that.

But even things like I'm going to see the
Odyssey tonight.

I'm very excited. Get to see it on opening
night.

And so when I bought the ticket yesterday,

I the ticket information was on screen.

Like from my purchase, and I just held the
side button.

I said, add this to my calendar.

Got all the information, the location,

the time, made the calendar event,

boom, done. And that kind of on screen
awareness,

just no matter what you're looking at,

it can take action with it, adding,

you know, it can add multiple events to
your calendar.

If you're looking at something like tour
dates or your kids' football

or soccer schedule, whichever you prefer,

you can add all of those things and it
works on all your Apple devices.

Like I think it's really good.

And even moving events. I was like,

hey, move this calendar event to this day
and time.

It can move those events. It just does it.

Right.

And it's really good at it. So I'm very
bullish on the Siri AI stuff.

I've been using it more and more and
finding out use cases of like,

do I ask Claude this? I need ~ to buy some

new tires because I don't know if you know
this,

but tires on an electric car wear faster.

The car is much heavier.

Well, the car's heavier and they put those
stupid

Michelin sport S's that are like this much
rubber.

Well and I didn't realize until last
Thursday,

Thursday night after our last episode,

I was heading to Lakeland and we were
actually gonna s go see Moana live action.

And when I got to the parking lot,

the tire pressure gauge on my car was like
ticking down visibly.

It went like thirty-eight, thirty-five,

thirty-two, and I was like, What is
happening?

Got out of the car and heard a s hissing
from my back tire.

Not what I not what you wanna hear.

Which is not good. Even on a normal
electric or not,

I

that's bad.

This is the first time this has happened
to me.

~ I have a 2013 Tesla Model S,

the old car. I was like, well,

let me check for the spare. I didn't
realize,

Jason. No spares. No spares. Actually,

No, it's just extra weight.

you gotta have room for the battery.

So no spare tire. So I was like,

okay, well, I guess let me see roadside
assistance.

State farm wanted to tow the car.

Tesla has a roadside assistance in the
app.

Have you used that? Did you use that when
your tire like fell off or whatever?

The

no,

I don't have the roadside assistance for
Tessa because that's a feature

you have to pay for.

Is it? Okay. 'Cause it's in the app and
like it went me it went so far

Yeah.

as to like hitting requests, but it was
basically just gonna tow me again.

I was like, no, no.

Yeah, they're just gonna

tell you. They put you on a flatbed and
take you somewhere.

I was like, I I can I can make it to some
place.

And so I got my portable compressor,

which is one of the best things you should
have in the cars where you

can plug it into the power thing and fill
up your tire.

I filled it up as high as it would go and
it was filling up,

you know, so it wasn't leaking so fast
where it couldn't fill up.

You it was I was able to fill it up and I
went eight minutes away to a tire place,

got a new tire, but now I have to buy
three new tires.

because one it blew out.

Mm.

It wasn't that I like went over a nail or
something,

like it actually like

Blue. I I don't know because it was like
balding or whatever.

So anyway, so I took a picture of the tire
and I was like,

I'm gonna ask AI to just find me this
tire,

I'll just buy three. And I got a guy in
the corner that changes them

out for super cheap. So I took a picture
of it and I went to Claude and I was like,

find me this model tire. And it was taking
a long time to like find this model.

I was like, Man, maybe this is a hard tire
to find.

And after it gave me the answer,

which seemed very long, I realized I had
switched to Fable.

For a request and didn't change back It
was like

It was actually building you a tire.

so I used Fable and asked her where I
could buy this tire and it w

man it was thinking hard about it 'cause
I'd also send like two pictures 'cause

I don't know anything about tires.

So I took picture of the tire and it was
telling me things like interpreting

the tire text and looking closely at this.

I was like, Why is it doing all this?

It's because Fable. Fable was working on
getting me a spare tire.

So anyway.

Man,

the number of tokens you burned.

I probably burned

half my thing, yeah. So I had to remember
to change that back because I

was I used it to help me. This is a side
note.

One of the most requested shortcuts I have
is a shortcut that opens news articles

in Apple News. So if I see JasonZink.com
article,

run a shortcut, open that in Apple News.

And if you if Apple News is in the share
sheet,

that's the best way to do it. And that
works.

But there's no URL scheme that seems to
work consistently because some people

use RSS reader apps.

And the news app doesn't show up in the
share sheet for some of those apps like

Net Newswire. And so I asked Fable to help
me with this.

Hasn't gotten there yet. We're we've been
going back and forth for days,

but that's why I was using Fable.

I was like, I'm gonna put the most
powerful brain on this to see.

Can I can this figure it out? But anyway,

it has not figured it out yet.

So that's been serious. It's been a good
experience.

If you want to jump on the public beta,

I feel like if any year you thought about
jumping on a beta,

this is probably the year to do it.

I think it's the most stable.

Yeah, I will just warn people,

'cause I believe this is still true.

I don't have a device. I sh I I'm not
gonna upgrade one of my kids

to twenty seven just to check this.

But you can upgrade, but you're not gonna
get Siri AI immediately.

You're gonna be on the wait list,

which as we if you remember from when you
first did it,

There'll be a wait list.

it could take you two or three weeks to
get off that wait list.

So just keep that in mind that you're
gonna be putting a beta on your phone.

It could.

And you are main you may not get the
immediate satisfaction of being able

to use Siri AI.

That is true. There are a bunch of other
features you'll get to use.

I mean, the performance, stability,

Sure. Yeah, the transparency slider.

and improvements, this stuff.
Transparency.

Transparency slider. You can turn liquid
liquid glass basically off.

You could do you can do that stuff.

Yeah, you know, you can do all that.

~ all right, we need to get to the open AI
stuff,

but before we do, I need to I want to talk
about Apple Maps because Apple

had announced earlier this year that ads
were coming to Apple Maps,

meaning that businesses could buy
sponsored

Things, suggested locations in Apple Maps.

We already talked about that and how we
feel about it.

But Apple is going to ban home services
from buying ads.

So this is things like electricians,

plumbers, repair guys, or ladies,

they will not be able to buy Apple Maps
ads,

which I found interesting. I think in
Google Maps,

that kind of stuff is allowed.

Like I had I've recently searched for
repair like air conditioner repair guys

or whatever, and I think I've saw
sponsored ads in Google Maps for those
kinds

of businesses. But Apple is going to ban
them.

I've I imagine it's because those kinds of
services related industries,

if there is an ad for a plumber and that
plumber screws up somebody's house,

that person's gonna be mad at Apple
because Apple surfaced that person because
they

bought an ad

Irr you know, ir regardless of their
quality or rating,

you know what I mean, how other people's
experience.

It was just an ad. And if it's not super
clear that it was an ad,

people are gonna be upset. So maybe that's
why they did it.

But I think it's interesting that they are
picking and choosing what they're going

to allow to be ads.

Well, I believe that the local service ads
is actually Google's biggest ad category.

Like I think that that is where they make
most of the money.

Makes sense?

I also think that philosophically it kinda
makes sense because if you open

a map and you're looking for something,

you like I wouldn't look on the maps app
if I needed a locksmith.

Right? Because the map is like give me
directions to go to the place,

True.

not find me provider who will come to my
house.

Right? Like i you it i I

Yeah.

this this almost sounds like ridiculous,

but it's like it would make more sense to
find a locksmith on Uber

or DoorDash than it would on the Google
Maps app.

Sure. Yeah.

So there's part of it where I think
philosophically maybe Apple's trying

to prevent some confusion and like just
make it clear that like no that

the things that well first of all I don't
think they should be doing ads,

but the things you can pay for an ad for
is I have a new bakery,

I want everyone to know. So if people are
searching for donuts,

they find my place, right? So I don't
know.

I think there's a philosophical piece of
it there.

But they are I mean, the reason it's a big
deal is they are basically saying

no to what is the biggest category of
revenue for ads.

And in this TechCrunch article there are
screenshots of what ads will look like.

This is d from Apple, but you could see
the image here.

And when you do not even a search,

if you just like slide up the search w
drawer or whatever,

there will be suggested places possibly
there before you even search and

the ad will be highlighted in blue with a
little blue tag that says ad.

And if you search for a place like
restaurants,

there might be that highlighted blue first
result.

I s I'm still not crazy about this.

I don't ~

Kinda meh, to be honest. Yes.

I have decided, Steven, I understand

advertising has made a lot of things
possible,

including like my job and your job.

Like it's I get it. However, it is such a
terrible experience.

Sure. Sure.

The number of times recently and I th so I
needed a I needed a disc utility because

I had an SD card that I that had like
forty five raw files that were just
missing.

So I'm like but it I'm like, well,

before I give up.

Reformat this card and never use it again.

Let me see if there's a so there was a
thing called Disc Drill,

which is an app that you can mount a SD
card and it it'll find everything.

It did a great and it did exactly what I
needed to do.

But I had done some research. This was
when I was in England,

I'd asked actually a couple of the other
photographers,

like what are they all? And everyone
recommended the same thing.

Problem is you search for disc drill and
you get a lot of things where

Okay.

Hmm.

the page header says disc drill.

But that is not what they are.

It is just a search game. You get all this
n stuff and even you get URLs that

Hmm. Yeah.

are variations of disc drill from all
these competitors.

And then I actually downloaded like three
of them before I realized this

is not these are not the apps that I'm
supposed to it's like so I don't like this

idea where if someone is searching
literally for Notion or Dropbox or
something,

Right.

you get all of the other things first.

Like what do you

Do you think that that's like the way we
should be living our life?

No, but that's also how the App Store
functions,

which we've talked about. Like if you s
yeah,

Yeah, I which I think is terrible.

it's not it's not good. And like Apple
could do things to I think it's keyword

sniping is the phrase. Like Apple should
be able to not allow that.

First first of all, I just went to the App
Store because I was about to

do a search to see what kind of results
come up.

And before I even search anything,

Google Gemini is at the top of suggested
as an ad,

which is like okay. Well

If you and if you search

Gross.

yeah, it's it's kind of gross.

And if you search for overcast,

this is always the the titular example I
think of,

there is another podcast player that is
obviously sniping that keyword because

if you like the word overcast is not
anywhere in the title of the app or
anything.

There's an ad first, then overcast is
there in this tiny little line,

and then the second ad starts.

I mean, I would say three quarters or more
of this screen on my iPhone is ads.

For apps that are not overcast.

Yeah, and neither of them should be there.

And now there's a be there.

Because the the user is clearly

Yeah.

searching for overcast. And Apple has well
Apple has said

Correct. Like if I search go ahead,

go ahead.

in their maps that if you it's so weird
because if you're through like

the small b Apple business and you buy
your maps,

you can't do that. However, it will be
available to

advertisers advertisers who are using the
Apple Ads platform,

which is a completely separate thing and
will be also so like they're actually

Right.

disadvantaging like your friend who owns a
restaurant or whatever because they

can they won't be able to, but like
Denny's can just buy their name and just

sh show their ad instead.

Right. And

I I hate to do this to you, Jason.

Have you searched your app in the App
Store?

I I don't have really great SEO yet.

So it's not

Well, I searched for contextually and
there it is the same situation as
Overcast.

Two other ads take up three quarters or
more of this screen.

Neither of them are your app. Your app is
here in that small sliver like Overcast.

The first one is called Context,

Personal Data Kit. Never heard of that.

Thirty four reviews. Not a huge app.

And then Gleam, Social Intelligence,

is the other app. ~

Well,

in mine, I get the first thing I get is
Grammarly.

Wow, that's definitely not a notes app at
all.

Second one I get is something called
summary AI note taker,

which I don't know what that is either.

But I am actually happy because there was
actually quite a long time that

if you search for my app it just like you
have to scroll for a very long time.

Didn't show up at all.

Well, let me say the last thing before we
take a quick break.

I searched for my app, because my app is
still in the app store.

And it is a it's nine it's got nine
reviews,

okay? It's it's almost a five star app.

It's my coffee finder. I searched for
Beard FM coffee,

which is a pretty specific search term,

I feel like, to put in the app store.

Yeah.

The first result, it's the same situation.

There's two big ads. I said ADS,

big ads, one on the top.

Yes.

One on the top is merge cooking,

which is some in-app purchase game scam.

And then after my app is Hungry Root,

Healthy Groceries. What is happening?

What is happening with these ads?

Like that that is a ~ that is a poor user.

And that's the question. If ads make the
user experience significantly worse,

that's a problem. And probably should be
re-examined on how these ads are placed.

how keywords can be, you know,

focused and all of that. So I've still
never seen an ad in Apple Maps when I
search.

And it's supposedly not rolled out just
yet.

Apple said it was coming this summer.

And Apple, you know, whenever it says a
season,

it's always like it might be the last day
of that season.

So it might be September twentieth,

you know, the first time you see an ad in
Apple Maps.

But they are coming. And now it might come
sooner rather than later.

I did just notice that Chris Lawley's app
basically uses my UI.

Well, but it's that's probably not him.

It's probably because I was I was making
an app and then a good friend

Hmm.

of the show started making a similar app
and he was much farther along and

so I was like, Well you just just make the
app and the UI was very similar

and I think there is a wireframe that
these AIs are using to create stuff.

And I've seen more and more I've seen more
and more posts on social media where

Interesting.

people will call out web

site elements where they're like,

that's a chat GPT design shtick kind of
thing.

Gotcha.

And so I don't think anything was
purposeful.

~ yeah. Yeah,

No, no, no. I didn't mean that in that way
at all.

I was like, look at that. But I mean,

yeah, yeah.

yeah,

I spent a lot of time actually going
through and being very specific about

the interface, but yeah, I'm not mad about
it.

It's totally fine.

But here's the thing though too,

I imagine as you are very specific about
your user interface and tweaking it,

Yeah, I just taught Quad this is what you
should do for the next guy.

that it you taught claw like that is
training data then to to do it.

Yeah, that's true. Good point.

And s and well and that's no,

You're well you're welcome, Chris.

No, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding.

I know, I know. But that's also like the
one the app that I was trying to make,

when our friends sent me their app,

like a test flight, a lot of the elements
were very similar.

And he never saw my app. My app never was
on the app store.

But I was using Claude to make it.

And so I imagine whatever follow ups and
requests that I was giving Claude

to design my app, like I'm sure that fed
into someone else who was,

you know, requested a very similar use
case,

it's it's all training data. And that I th
I didn't mean for this to be

Yeah, that's true.

a super deep topic, but I do think as the
question of what tasks

and jobs

are safe or not safe with the rise of AI
type tools,

this is now looking like the AI
appification or whatever

you want to say, like those apps that are
made with AI,

if you don't have that creative app skill
set that maybe

you can like hand design something that's
very different,

a lot of the apps might start looking
similar and have similar elements,

Right.

even though

It's very different people making it.

They might be starting like never see
other apps as inspiration.

Just the fact that all of this training
data is going back up into one place,

namely Claude or whatever, it's gonna come
back out when someone else wants

to make an app. And so there's gonna be a
the word I've been looking for,

homogenization of design and elements from
apps and websites.

And, you know, ~ we'll see. We'll see what
happens over the next few years.

But I don't know. I I've also been

Sure. Yeah.

Seeing a lot on social media of people
just resisting AI.

and that's that was the example I wanted
to use in the Siri AI section.

~ one thing I did not put in my video and
I didn't know was possible is that Siri

AI can apparently identify AI generated
imagery.

Because I took this ~ screenshot of an
Amazon post months

yeah.

ago, and it was such a clear AI-generated
image in the Amazon post.

And so

I'm gonna this is just an image on my
phone.

I'm gonna ask Siri AI, is this an AI
generated image?

And we did this in the pre-show,

but let's try it again now and see what it
does.

Yes, this appears to be an AI generated
image.

There are several visual inconsistencies
common in AI generation,

such as the man's hands blending
unnaturally into the plush toy he is
holding,

and the blurred, nonsensical shapes of the
background elements and machinery.

So there you go. I'm gonna be making that
Instagram real later today showing that

Yeah.

Siri AI can identify AI generated imagery.

As long as it's really bad. And no,

no, HomePod, I'm not talking to you.

You don't have AI. Get out of here,

HomePod. No my goodness.

What is happening?

My home pot is rebelling because the
machines are rising up.

The machines are rising up. You called it
it it

heard it be called nonsensical.

Blur nonsensical machine.

That's what it was.

Thankfully, the home pods don't have legs
yet.

The home pods don't have legs yet.

All right. We need to talk about open AI.

They had a series of unfortunate events.

Some self-inflict well, maybe all
self-inflicted.

But anyway, we're gonna get to that.

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Now, OpenAI had a week where they
basically punch themselves in

the face almost every day. Thursday,

Well, I would

Friday.

argue that that started with them punching
their users in the face.

~ okay. Well, let's start there.

This was Thursday. So here's the timeline.

Thursday, OpenAI screwed up their app.

Friday, we learned that OpenAI stole trade
secrets.

And then Tuesday, OpenAI, it was rum well,

Mark German at Bloomberg said they're
gonna release a home pod.

That's their big AI hardware, which is
like whatever.

Okay. But first, let's start with the app.

And Jason wrote a wonderful piece on
link.com.

We'll link the Apple news link in the show
notes.

But tell me, because I'm I'm holding out.

I've heard all the uproar about the app.

I'm still on the old app. I didn't have
codecs on my Mac Studio,

so I'm not installing it. I got the splash
screen.

When I opened the ChatGPT app and was
like,

there's a new ChatGPT experience.

Do you want it? And I quietly X'd out of
that splash screen and just continued
using

my ChatGPT Classic app. So tell me,

what's what's the deal?

Yeah, okay. So essentially what they did
is they took the Codex app,

which a lot of people did not have.

A lot of people did have, and it's a
genuinely great Codex is genuinely a great
app.

Like just Codex yeah, it's a tool.

Tool, yeah, yeah, for

Thank you. They they introduced a new
thing called Chat GPT Work,

which sounds like, you know,

Google for work or Microsoft Outlook or
something,

right? Chat GPT work sounds like Chad GPT
you use at work.

Right, right, right.

But that's not but that is not what
ChatGPT work is.

They're trying sound real corporty.

Hmm.

ChatGPT work is cloud co-work,

but ChatGPT, right? That's I mean that's
what it is.

Right.

ChatGPT they didn't even come up with an
original name.

It's just what if we don't put the co in
front of it?

That's true. They just put work.

We just call it the same thing.

And they they combine those two things
into the Codex app

and they r renamed the whole thing
ChatGPT.

Super not confusing at all, right?

So what that meant is if you had the Codex
app and you updated it,

it became ChatGPT. And then if you had the
ChatGPT app,

Right.

it became ChatGPT classic and probably was
in your trash.

So if you wanted to keep the classic app,

actually on my computer it just went to
the trash called ChatGPT.

So I had to drag it out and rename it
ChatGPT Classic so I could keep it.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, just the whatever the
name is.

You had to rename the app file?

Yeah. I mean, like you just can you can
call it anything you want.

~ because

because if I download codec today,

it's called ChatGPT.

Yes. And the and then it moves the other
one to the trash.

So it's like, don't use the chat app,

please. And in the there's a screenshot in
my article,

Great experience.

but in that there there is still
technically chat.

It is just like one of the options over on
the size and it opens a floating window.

And it's basic and then if you want your
previous history of chats,

you have to toggle over to that and it's
like this weird,

~

weird, weird UI. Also they put a browser.

They killed Atlas and put the browser in
the Codex app.

Yeah, ad

It's like

All of it is insane, if you ask me.

Like in there the the thing that Chat GPT
or excuse me that OpenAI is trying

to say is we don't really want people
using Chat GPT.

We want them using these things that we
make money on,

which is Chat GPT work and Codex.

Yes.

And but I I feel like the biggest problem
is it's such

a terrible experience. In and granted,

if you don't have the Codex app,

you could just keep like you, just keep
Chat GPT.

I'd never update.

That's all I'm doing. that's exactly

what I'm doing.

Except how long do you think ChatGPT
Classic is going to stick around?

Three months max.

Okay, maybe. I would have maybe said like
six months,

but yeah, like I don't think that it's
very long for this world.

And what they're basically telling you is
that free service and app that

a billion people started using,

that is not the future. And the reason
it's not the future is because Claude
exists

and Claude has the thing called cowork and
and whatever,

and it's like we have to go and do that
thing as well.

And also we'll make a home pod.

Yeah, we'll we'll g we'll get to that last
part.

So I I just saw everywhere on online I
mean Gruber was ticked,

Ben Thompson's like they not a good
experience.

But just people anecdotally on social
media are like,

where do my chats go? Because if you
updated to the Codex app it or downloaded
it,

that chat history, like you're saying,

apparently is very important to people and
they couldn't find it easily.

And that was unfortunate. But also like
you're saying,

this is clearly open AI.

needing to slightly pivot and gear itself
toward that enterprise this

is a work tool for businesses and
hopefully they pay money and clear that
they're

doing this before they IPO. So hopefully
all this can be behind them

and then they will be positioned as like
the the enterprise tool.

It also feels like you tell me,

it feels like Claude is winning that race
and it's not close right now.

But I don't know.

I think that's actually

a hundred percent true, which is the
reason why open AI is responding this way.

OpenAI has been chat GPT has been a
consumer brand.

Claude has always been a nerd and then
enterprise brand,

right? And ch what chat GPT what open AI
has realized is that consumers

is not very profitable because most people
are just using the free version

of Chat GPT in a browser or in an app or
whatever,

and they lose money every time you you

Like literally if the service is free but
it costs them money,

they lose money every time. And even the
twenty dollar a month plan,

I'm pretty sure they're losing a bunch of
money on people on that.

Sure, sure.

Because twenty dollars a month was
literally just a number somebody made

up and they're like, How much do we think
twenty bucks.

Okay, let's try that. And they did it.

And so that's why like you always get
these notifications that are like,

And we've extended access to Fable for
three more days until we figure

Yeah.

out how much usage this is going to be or
whatever.

Like they just don't have a clue.

And and so I think

Yeah, I feel like the reason that the chat
history is so important

to people is that's what people were using
it for.

The majority of people were consumers
using a free version or a twenty dollar

a month version, and they were using it to
do chat stuff.

And yes, it is true that that is not the
most useful way to use any of these tools.

By far, codecs, chat ~ claude code,

cowork, chat GPT were ~ are phenomenal.

And ChatGPT's version of it is actually
incredible.

The vast majority of people don't care.

And so that's why in this case,

the what OpenAI did, in my opinion,

they did two things very wrong.

One, the app is just bad. It's just a bad
design.

It is a garbage, whatever, you know,

non-native app. It's like they because
they had a native app and they made this

Yeah. Right. Right.

thing and it's weird. The Atlas browser
thing is like in a sidebar that pulls

up over, like it's just so it's terrible.

And

It's a brand marketing user experience
problem,

which is like we're telling people and
creating confusion

and creating friction because we're trying
to force them into a certain mode

of using this that people just that's not
what they asked for.

I also feel that we talked about,

I think last week, I can't remember,

but I think Siri AI, once that is in
people's hands this September,

like for most people, there is going to be
a shift and people will start

to use it for their casual knowledge,

general request stuff. Because one,

it'll be quote unquote free. They won't
have to go to a separate app to do it.

And it will have that personal context.

And it's just it'll be built in.

And I wonder, you can tell me if you think
this might be true,

but maybe this is also OpenAI responding
to that coming shift.

Where on the iPhone, I like a lot of
people use the ChatGPT app right

now on their iPhone and on their iPad.

I see like real world people doing it.

I think when Siri AI is out there and
people understand,

they can just ask it. And the Siri AI app
is going to be just popped

up on their device and they're gonna like,

I can just

go here and do it. I don't know.

I feel like that's gonna be a shift too.

And maybe OpenAI is trying to make some
changes to shift that part

of their business too. Does that maybe?

Maybe I well so I think actually yes.

because I and I don't know how the stack
looks,

but if you just imagine a vertical stack
and it's a billion people,

w how they're using different things,

right? Like there's some tier at the top
that are like making apps in code.

Yeah, yeah.

And there's some people, some small
percentage of those people

who actually know what they're doing when
they make apps and stuff like that.

Right. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

And then there's a bunch of people who
don't,

and then there's a bunch of people who are
like,

I like all the advanced features,

and then there's a bunch of people that
are just asking random questions like what

does a black hole look like?

Right. And that group of people I could
see just using Siri AI.

Right. Yeah.

And it's but I don't think OpenAI cares
because they're not paying for Chat GPT,

They're not paying for JPD anyway,

probably. But they are no longer in that
ecosystem.

right.

They're no longer giving that training
data data.

They're not an upsell you can do anymore.

What I don't think we've really explored.

So I think Siri's killer app is going to
be the personal context,

like we've talked about. Like I did this
last week.

Obviously, yeah. Yeah.

~ we had gotten a message from someone
that on this trip we're going on.

With some important information and I
couldn't find I could like is this

a text message? And if it was a text
message,

I don't have this person in my contact.

So like did I delete the text message or
was it an email?

But but I just like said to it,

What where was that message? They talked
about this,

and it's like here, you have this email
from this date from this person,

and it has a link. And if you're sp if you
want to do it,

you go, that's great. But I also ask Chat
GPT and open or excuse me,

Claude to do a lot of things. And I don't

Like is Siri gonna be the thing when I'm
like,

could you summarize the OpenAI Apple
lawsuit that Apple file today?

Right? Like I do that kind of thing and
it'll give me all this information.

Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I don't know if Siri is going to fill that
need.

I'm not saying it can't do it.

I don't know if people are going to use it
in that way.

And if that's the case, that's like
there's a pivot shift in there

for these companies where they have to
like I I just think there's there's gonna

be a reshuffling of the stack.

I'm just not sure how what the limits are
going to be for Siri AI.

And what we would still want to use those
other things for.

Right. So well we'll see. The app is bad
now.

I'm gonna hold out as long as I can and
we'll see how that goes.

It's a real bad.

You can read Jason's article. So that was
Thursday.

And then Friday, Apple filed a lawsuit
against OpenAI.

And this totally blew up. We'll put a a
link to Jason's article

as well talking about it and a few others.

The gist is Apple is accusing OpenAI of

maybe stealing or seeking trying to court
trade secrets,

Apple secrets, via either interviews or
things like that.

And so some of the stories are Apple
OpenAI's chief hardware officer,

Tang Yu Tan, who worked at Apple for 24
years as the VP of product design

for iPhone and Apple Watch. I mean this
dude was high up in Apple.

He is now at OpenAI as their chief
hardware officer,

which remember OpenAI doesn't have any
hardware right now,

but they're the chief he's the chief
hardware officer.

Clearly trying to make stuff. And some of
the allegations is that

in the interview process, Tang Yu Tan
would instruct potential

employees that were leaving Apple trying
to get hired at OpenAI to just bring some

Apple stuff to the interview. You know,

if you have any hard, unreleased hardware,

any parts, and in the court filing,

you can download the PDF from various
sites.

You know, I put it through Claude and I
asked it,

like, what were some of the things?

Like,

They would just bring show they they
called it OpenAI internally,

Tang Yu Tan called it a show and tell,

where in these interview processes the
former Apple employees,

or maybe current Apple employees who just
left,

would bring hardware to these interviews
to show things that Apple might have been

working on. This included unreleased
products.

There were also information where Apple's
metal fabrication processes,

some secrets from that might have

gone over to open AI through some of these
employees.

And I think it's about 400 Apple employees
right now that currently work

at OpenAI that were formerly Apple.

So there's been a large segment of people
who have gone from Apple to OpenAI.

And then one particular allegation in the
court filing,

Apple says that Chang Liu, previously a
sys senior systems electrical engineer

at Apple before joining OpenAI,

sent this message to an Apple employee,

said Caps

LOL. Okay. I found out I can access the
network storage.

So funny. Meaning he can access Apple's
network storage still,

even though he left the company and would
be pulling things to show Open AI.

That network storage, I heard Gruber talk
about this,

and I'm also familiar that Apple uses box
as their like cloud provide cloud file

storage. And I it seems like I don't think
it's that.

I mean, network storage, I would think.

If you're not familiar, sometimes in a
company there might be a network storage

at the physical location, like at Apple
Park,

and with VPNs and other connections,

like your MacBook at home sh might be able
to access that network storage that's

in the physical location. It seems like
it's that kind of situation,

like the network storage at Apple Park,

and he was able to pull files off of it
even though he was terminated.

So these are the allegations in the
lawsuit.

Now OpenAI responded several ways.

To these allegations. The first response
came on X,

which I'm like, how are we still doing
this?

But anyway, this was Drew Pusseteri,

which is OpenAI's director of
communications.

He said, Our statement in response to this
lawsuit:

we have no interest in other companies'
trade secrets.

Now, this is particularly hilarious,

I feel like, because number one,

OpenAI.

Is working with Johnny Ive. Clearly,

they're interested in the kind of stuff
Apple does because they hired

the guy that worked at Apple for decades
designing their hardware.

So, like to say you have no interest in
other companies' trade secrets

on the face of it sounds like complete BS.

Like that's ridiculous. So,

Yeah.

whatever. Sounds like a lie. And then
there is a response,

the official response from OpenAI is that.

While we take these allegations seriously,

we're not aware of any evidence that this
complaint has merit.

Sure, buddy.

Well, also that's just as much of a non
statement,

just to be clear. We are not aware of any
evidence that this complaint has merit.

Very much non stamp it.

How to say something without saying
something.

Th the

that's just words that but if even if you
start to parse out the words,

we're not aware of any evidence.

Like w you could say that if you just
hadn't read the lawsuit.

Like if you haven't read it, then that is
a true statement.

That's true, right. Right. Hadn't heard of
that.

We are not aware of any evidence that this
lawsuit has any more.

Okay, Steven. I do think there's a couple
things that are important here.

First of all, Chang Lu cooked.

Like pff d' the stuff that he he did is
real bad.

Yeah.

And I think that Apple

It's real bad.

was just hoping that they would come
across a situation like that so that they
could

file this lawsuit. Because the other thing
that happens in a lawsuit

Mm.

is that one side tells its story and of
course as it tells its story,

it makes any potential thing that the
other side did sound like Armageddon.

Like it's like the end of the universe is
happening because this one

Right.

guy asked you to bring your iPhone 4S to
an interview or whatever it was.

Right.

Like

Also, if you are interviewing people from
an ~ from a another company

to come to your company, you're probably
gonna ask show us what you've worked

on because that's how you decide if
they're going to be good at what they do.

So I'm not sure that that part of the
lawsuit really has any actual merit

to hold up to. I think i other than other
than this,

and I think this is the point of the
lawsuit.

If four hundred people have left Apple to
go to open AI,

there's probably a whole lot more that are
going to be leaving to go.

Many people there I, you know,

from

what I've heard st still have very fond
feelings for of Johnny Ive and that team

and that kind of thing and and would love
to go work with them.

And OpenAI is a company where you get some
stock options and you could become

a very, very wealthy, even though you're
probably already very wealthy at Apple,

whatever. ~ I think that this is just a
lawsuit meant

to make sure that anyone who currently
works at Apple who might

be thinking of leaving Apple understands

if you do anything like this, we will put
your name on the front page

of a lawsuit that we file in a court,

right? Like we w we are because look at
who they did like they didn't

put Johnny Ive's name on this.

Even though IO is listed as a defendant,

right? But they did not sue Johnny Ive.

And so I think it's I think it is
important though to parse it out because

I think most of the stuff, ~ Tang,

U Tan, I think that that's just it's
completely meaningless to this lawsuit.

Like I don't think any of that is going to

I don't I'm I wouldn't be surprised if
he's dismissed as a defendant because

I don't think that they're going to be
able to prove that any of the things

he did are theft of trade secrets because
they didn't allege that

he took anything from Apple except for
employees.

And if those employees revealed
information,

that might be different, right?

Think about that for a second.

What could he possibly have done wrong?

Sure.

He left the company and then he tried to
hire a bunch of people.

And when he did, he asked them to bring in
their stuff.

That's not an illegal thing. It might be
bad.

It might not look good.

It's if those employees take trade secrets
and go and inducing them to do that,

Right.

I I shouldn't say it's nothing.

But my point is it's very hard to prove
unless you can prove that people actually

did it. And the only one they can prove
anything seems like in this lawsuit

is Chiang Lu. Like I said, he's cooked.

So that one I want to actually read from
the court filing.

I will put a link to the PDF. This is the
one John Gruber's hosting

on DaringFireball.net because it's kind of
weird to get to otherwise.

But anyway, this is from the court filing.

This is Apple. In the months before he
left Apple,

Mr. Tan met with OpenAI or its
collaborators and discussed meetings with

a key Apple supplier. He began emailing
himself information about Apple suppliers

and internal summaries of the consumer
electronics industry.

Today, when interviewing Apple employees
for jobs at OpenAI,

Mr. Tan uses Apple's confidential
information to gain access to even more
insider

knowledge. He has used an Apple internal
project code name to ask what's

the plan for an unannounced Apple product.

He has directed now, that's probably not
illegal.

Like for him to a if he's no longer at
Apple and he asks a current

or former Apple employee about it,

I imagine it's on the employee not to
divulge the information if they have
signed

some NDA. He's not at Apple anymore.

So asking the question is probably not
wrong.

But if he emailed himself information,

internal information, like if he emailed
it from like when he was still at Apple,

meeting with suppliers and sending
information that he is then using outside

of OpenAI, I imagine that's there is a
case there where whatever

NDA or something that he would have signed
at Apple,

that that would be in breach of that
agreement.

If he's sending information out of Apple.

while at Apple about something secret.

Okay. Does a lawsuit say anything about an
NDA?

Let me see.

I don't know, but here's the thing.

You they could sue him personally for
breaking an NDA,

but usually if someone violates an NDA,

Okay.

you don't make a big public stink.

Right? Because you don't want to make more
public whatever it is that they violated

as an NDA. You are the whole point is that
you're trying

to keep things confidential, right?

And I believe Apple doesn't use the phrase
~ NDA.

I think they call them something else.

They don't that's not anywhere in this.

They call call them something else.

It's not anywhere in this.

And I'm so

Again, I I guess maybe the point you're
making,

maybe I'm overstating it, but but we
haven't seen any evidence of what Apple

has alleged about him. But the things that
they've alleged about Tang

Yu Tan are very, very different than the
things that they've alleged about alleged

about Chang Lu, who literally kept an app
a laptop that wasn't

his and continued logging into systems
that he did not actually have
authorization

for, which makes Apple look pretty bad.

It's like if you didn't turn off the guy's
box account

Right. And so let me also re-so this is
also from the court filing.

That that's bad. That's on you.

It says Mr. Lou tried to access Apple's
network storage,

a cloud-based file repository containing
Apple's confidential engineering files,

project documentation, and other
proprietary information.

Hard to tell if that's box.net or like
some proprietary cloud storage like that

they're hosting. But also, yeah,

if this dude left Apple.

And someone forgot to turn off his access
to engineering files

and proprietary information. Like,

yeah, that is a security issue.

Yeah, it just sounds like somebody forgot
to go into the admin panel and be like,

deactivate this guy.

That's why you need some of our sponsors
today to to work on some of your security,

maybe. But yeah,

Yeah, there you go.

you're right. That dude is probably
cooked.

Tang Yu Tan, it seems less clear what
exactly did wrong.

But this is like so high level.

A lot of people were making this
comparison.

I don't think Apple's gone after a company
I feel this strongly in a while.

And it feels a little bit like a Steve
Jobs era.

Some company has wronged Apple.

And we are going to go after them now.

And I don't know, it feels like this has
not happened in a while

and maybe Apple's like I don't know,

has a little unc unction back.

Does it feel like that?

Well, I mean, that was sort of the
argument that Ben Thompson and John Cooper
made

on Dithering, which was that John Turnus
and Tang U Tan did not get along at all.

They just like hated each other.

And then Turnus, I think, got the job that
Tang Tan wanted.

Feel like important piece of information
right now.

Not the CEO one, the head of hardware or
whatever.

So so there's like a lot of context here
that seems like it's helpful.

Had already.

Like this is more just like people mad at
each other than actual giant principled

philosophical, like

Right. This actually feels more like Steve
Jobs saying,

I'm gonna go nuclear over Android.

Right. He was just super mad. Like very,

Right, right. Right, right, right.

very mad. And in that case felt very
violated because Eric Schmidt was

on the board of Apple. The the the head of
Google at the time was on

Right.

the board and then they just decided to
make a competing phone system ecosystem.

I think that in this case, I believe that
it's probably true that

Apple would not care about open AI.

Except for that open AI is talking about
making a device,

a hardware device, which is Apple's
Apple's like,

dude, just run your stuff on our hardware.

It's the best in the world and we're happy
to stay away from your business.

Like just do your thing. But they're like,

No, no, no, no. Not only are we going to
do it,

but we're going to hire your iconic
hardware guy who left your company.

The thing is you can pay six point five
billion dollars for Johnny Ives' company

and his design, whatever, but what you
can't pay for is the decades of
experience.

Like you can't pay for Apple in China.

Like that book, all that experience.

Red.

You don't get that with Johnny Ive.

Johnny Ive doesn't know like machining
processes like over to b to build

a billion devices. Like that's not his
area of expertise.

So you have to bring in all these other
people.

So and Apple I think is very ~ I agree,

I think Apple's very upset about that.

I think it's just I think it's a little
bit more personal than just purely

on principle.

Sure. And so the last thing I'll say from
the court filing.

Apparently it's called an IPA,

not an N D A.

Intellectual property agreement.

Right. And so it says Mr. Lou signed and
is bound by an IPA obligating

him to protect Apple's confidential
information.

It goes on to say that he downloaded
dozens of files ~ that were

on Apple's network repository,

downloaded confidential technical
presentations,

spreadsheets, PDFs, and written work
product,

and also downloaded a presentation
concerning the manufacture

and testing of multilayer or main logic
boards,

complex circuit boards in Apple's
hardware.

So like you were saying, Lou is cooked.

Because it sounds like he had an he signed
an A IPA with Apple.

He downloaded a bunch of stuff that he
should not have been sharing.

And it sounds like they have proof of all
of that.

Well, and here's the th sorry,

that's an important point. It sounds like
they have proof of all of that.

They put the text messages in the lawsuit.

Not because it makes the case stronger,

but because every single Apple employee
who reads that is reminded,

yeah, they can access everything.

They can access my text messages on my
corporate device.

They can access everything on my laptop on
my corporate device.

yeah.

Be careful. That's that's Apple telling
it.

That's w that's the only reason you put
the text messages in the lawsuit because

Right. Right. Right.

you know what the text messages

are and you didn't even have to get a
subpoena for them because they were Apple

devices, like Apple corporate devices.

Right. Apple but

yeah, y as an employee, your employee
device.

A couple other just peripheral things.

John Gruber talked about when he was at
dub dub and I didn't

ask anybody in briefings about the Chat
GPT relationship and

the integration with Apple intelligence,

'cause it seemed pretty clear like Siri AI
is the deal and it's not Chat GPT.

And like it seems like even in the Siri
settings,

like on the IOS twenty seven beta right
now

HomePod if you don't Sorry. I need to turn
off I know I need to turn it off.

Steven, I hold on. Listeners, this is an
important reiteration of of my

I know. Public service announcement.

Public service announcement.

cardinal rule, which is that the only
thing that should ever listen to

you is your watch.

Yeah. Okay. Anyway. The ~ the Chat GPT
extension for Apple Intelligence,

it's like lower and lower in the settings
pane,

it feels like with every beta that goes
by.

But also I've seen people there in my
YouTube comments and on social media,

they are asking, like, hey, where's the
Gemini integration?

I heard that you were gonna be able to use
Gemini with Apple Intelligence,

which is kind of hilarious because people
still don't not hilarious like they just

don't know, but it is telling.

That the announcement that Apple was
working with Google Gemini for Siri

AI in people's minds were, I'll just be
able to use Gemini as the assistant

on my iPhone. Like that's still in
people's heads that who

Yeah.

who heard that announcement. And it that
is not,

that does not exist. There is no Gemini
extension in Apple Intelligence where

you can sign in with your Google account
and use Gemini as your assistant.

And so Gruber and others would said they
had asked some employees about that Chat

GPT extension at W and they

quote, Group said they were ice cold.

The Apple employees were ice cold in their
response about that integration,

which, knowing this lawsuit was coming,

they knew this was coming. Totally makes
sense.

Like they're

Well,

they may or may not have known it was
coming,

but the other thing that has been brewing
is that OpenAI has been threatening

to sue Apple over that.

Because they believe that this integration
would be more beneficial to open

AI and it has not been. So I think that
says a couple things.

One, I don't think we will see any
third-party integration

in Apple Intelligence going forward.

You know, there were the rumors that even
Mark German and journalist,

excuse me, journalist Mark German at
Bloomberg said that Apple

Okay.

was considering having Gemini and
anthropic extensions so you could

use whatever AI you want with Apple
Intelligence.

I don't think that's ever going to happen.

I don't think we're gonna see any kind of
third party extensions,

Mm.

especially after this whole rig and roll.

Like the one partner they did use,

they're now involved in a lawsuit against.

I don't think Apple's gonna wanna ever put
themselves in that position again,

number one. What do you say?

I was just saying beta three is gonna be
like Gemini,

Claude.

Perplexity. Deep seek.

Thief GPT. No,

Yeah. ~ right,

it's gonna be like criminal GPT.

It's like these guys over here,

right, right, right. They're gonna put a
skull and crossbones instead of their
logo.

you can use them but they they steal
stuff.

Yes.

And then it seems like the ChatGPT
extension is not long for this world.

I feel like once Siri AI is out this fall,

we get a couple software revisions in iOS
27.3.4.

I think that's gonna go away. One,

because

There's not really reason for it anymore,

honestly. Like before Siri AI,

sometimes I would ask using ChatGPT and
ask like a question because

I knew that ChatGPT would give me a better
answer.

I have no desire to do that right now.

And honestly, having that extension signed
into my ChatGPT plus account,

I don't think matters. And third side
note,

I keep getting I'm being charged more for
my ChatGPT usage in the API shortcuts.

Cause I

Where I use Chat GPT the most is in my
shortcuts because I have a

~ API request built in there and it hits
tokens.

And for some reason in the last few weeks
I've had multiple charges now

to use the same amount of tokens I've
always used because I the same shortcuts
every

day. And I'm like, well, I pay for Cloud
Max.

So I'm just gonna start using that API key
and replace ChatGPT in all my shortcuts,

and then I have no reason to pay for
ChatGPT at all.

And so I think that extension is gonna go
away at least

By iOS twenty eight, if not sooner.

That's my prediction.

The flip side of that, just the
counterpoint argument,

is keeping them in there does alleviate
the pressure from regulators,

the the competitive pressure that would
exist if they make it so that

no one else can. Because that's like one
of the reasons they can't even release
some

of the stuff in Europe, right?

Is because you have to give access to all
these things.

So it may be a middle ground where they're
like,

No, actually we'll we'll yeah,

we're gonna sue you, but we'll let you
stay for now.

Yeah, true. Which side note, Apple
Intelligence has actually been cleared

for use in China and interestingly it's
using not Chad

GPT like they're having to work with
Alibaba and other like Chinese

AI companies ~ in order for it to to power
Apple intelligence because it's

in China kind of stuff. So that was
interesting.

Yeah.

I'll put a link in in the show notes about
that.

But anyway, this lawsuit's gonna be a big
deal.

~ we'll have to see. I I'm excited

Excited to see what comes out during the
trial,

'cause as they introduce evidence,

all of that stuff's gonna have to be
public and whatever emails

and text messages Apple and OpenAI bring
to the table is gonna be very interesting.

We might even, you know, might see stuff
from Johnny Ive in some of this evidence.

Yes.

You never know. So that is curious.

And all of us to say, well, what hardware
could open AI possibly be working

on that they would it steal Apple trade
secrets?

well it's it's a home pod mini.

Apparently it's gonna be a home pod a
smart speaker.

That that's Chat GPT. Jason, if this is
the if this is gonna be their first first

party hardware that they launched,

like show's over on OpenAI hardware.

Like, no. I don't think so. No one's gonna
buy this.

Who would buy this?

Yeah, I mean, I feel like this is very
similar to the meta glasses,

which I know we're gonna talk about later.

I just think that companies

Yes.

get very ~ tunnel vision when it comes to
things like this.

They're like, We have to own our own
hardware.

And it's like, no, you just don't.

Right? Salesforce doesn't sell hardware
because guess what?

Salesforce runs on every laptop in the
universe that has a browser.

Right.

And they all have browsers. Like,

I don't know why I picked Salesforce,

Right. You don't even need a laptop,

but the yes,

you just need a browser.

that's true. They they make an app for
your phone,

whatever. Like, God forbid you have to use
it.

That it's fine, it's ubiquitous,

you can just use it. The the AI company,

Chat GPT should be the same. Open AI does
not want to get into competition with

the world's most capable hardware maker.

Like, why would you want to have that
fight?

Why would you want why wouldn't you want
to just have the best possible
relationship

with that company?

Because in the only reason is like I don't
want to give Apple thirty percent

of my subscriptions. I I get it.

But that doesn't seem like it's worth all
of this.

Sure.

No. Or just do what Meta does and charge
30% more if someone subscribes

Yeah. Sure.

to the in app purchase. Whatever.

You know what I mean? Pass the saving or
the non-savings on to the customer.

So I don't know. A home pod ChatGPT,

that does not ~ entice me at all.

That's what German reports they're working
on.

So anyway, let's do a quick lightning
round and we'll get to a personal tech.

Mira Marathi, formerly OpenAI CTO,

has she has a new startup, Thinking
Machines.

And they released a their first model
called Inkling.

And this is apparently not as powerful as
like the Frontier models

at OpenAI and Anthropic, but is
specialized in being customized

to a company's needs, possibly,

which honestly makes a lot of sense.

You know, I think a more highly
specialized,

less powerful AI might be more useful than
Fable that's just looking up

my tires or whatever. ~ not that it'd be

More useful in a sense of like if it's
highly customized to the use case

of a company, it you know, just would be
more useful,

I think. But anyway, so that's her
startup.

I think and also, ~ who was the person who
was gunning for

Sam Altman's position that just recently
left OpenAI?

I forget her name. OpenAI exec that left.

You know what I'm talking about last week?

I have no

idea what you're talking about.

I mean Mira Marathi is the one who
basically set the whole thing in motion.

yeah, but she was the CEO of product.

Fiji Simo stepped down.

She wasn't gunning for Sam Almonds.

She was CEO of product, right.

Not going Sam Alban, but she, you know,

again, that was part of just opening AIs,

no good, very bad week.

Yes, that's

true. They lost a person who had been gone
basically for three months.

That is true. That is true. She's working
remotely.

So anyway, that was that. Netflix is
trying to do a bunch of stuff.

Netflix, they're doing short form in their
app,

which we had talked about. They're now in
talks to buy Letterboxed,

which I imagine a lot of people would have
thoughts about.

But Letterboxd is beloved.

Netflix is also courting more podcasts and
shows.

is trying to do all the Netflix is trying
to be YouTube.

It's trying to be tick-tock I don't think
it's gonna be able to do them all well,

but it's I don't know

Yeah,

I agree with you. think I heard somebody
say like Netflix is trying

to become YouTube become before YouTube
becomes Netflix,

yeah, YouTube like has a way greater
chance of becoming Netflix first.

There's been shows on YouTube that are
like Emmy nominated now,

like Subway takes got an Emmy nomination.

Right. Yes. Yes, I agree.

And this is a side note. If you use Apple
Card and you're on the iOS 27 beta,

there's a really cool feature now where if
you go to your recurring charges

on Apple Card, there is now a calendar
view and it shows

you your upcoming recurring charges that
are about to be charged.

As you can go and the dates are
highlighted with like little specific
numbers

so you can see.

and was at this moment that I realized
apparently I'm paying thirty dollars

for Netflix I did not realize my Netflix
subscription was thirty dollars

Yeah, it just keeps getting more
expensive,

Stephen.

And now I'm like, do I, do I,

why? Why do I do that?

Well, I mean, you've

got to pay $30 to take advantage of all
those bits you got coming up and down.

I I gotta go somewhere I guess I don't
even know what I watch

on Netflix anymore anyway so yeah Netflix
is expensive trying to

be YouTube is trying to do all the things
let's get to personal tech because

I bought another iPhone but it wasn't for
me ~ maybe do this

do guess we bought our 14 year old son his
first iPhone what model

color size do you think we got him

Well, this isn't fair because I look at
the list of things we're talking about.

So I know what you buy him. I don't have a
clue what I don't know our color.

right. Well you never know.

never know.

Maybe you're just ropa doping me.

But it does say in the document iPhone 17,

That's right, yeah, I'm trying to throw
you off.

which feels like,

fair.

I mean, we bought our daughters 16 when
they were the device.

I feel like right now I'm pretty sure the
iPhone 17 is the best.

Sure, sure.

Option to buy at this point, right?

Like it's the best thing to get for
anyone.

Sure, sure. We did get an iPhone 17
regular.

So Okay

I didn't even think about getting an
iPhone Air.

I didn't even consider that as part of the
equation.

Would you?

No, I wouldn't give a kid an iPhone air
only because children are terrible with
like

battery management type things and also
every Once because this is is this child

the teenager. Yes, right? Okay Like the
one camera thing would be a no-go

14, 14, 14.

for most teenagers. So I did have a sorry
I wanted you to finish but I

Yeah, right, right.

did have a fun experience with my daughter
She picked up this iPhone here yesterday

or the day before

And she's like, this is so, so thin.

was like, it's fine. She's like,

I know it feels like you could just break.

I'm like, you super can't break it.

Try. And she's like, no, I can't.

I was like, try. So I started to bend it
for her.

I'm like, there's no way you can break it.

I promise you. Like if he,

Greg Joswiak bent it like in an interview
or tried to bend it.

he, he let, he gave it to the people and
let them try to do it.

And then what's his name? Jerry rig
everything.

That's right, that's right, that's right.

Yeah. Jerry rig everything, yeah.

It was like so much pressure that it
required.

It's like, she's like, no, but I can hear
cracking.

I'm like, that's just your knuckles.

No.

It's fine.

Anyway, sorry, move on.

Yeah, so we got iPhones. We got iPhone 17.

Any guess what color? There's lavender,

I don't even know what colors the iPhone
17 are.

sage, mist blue, white and black.

Why?

Now we did mist blue. felt like the,

Okay.

know, unfortunately he likes different
colors.

We didn't do black and so we went with the
blue,

got him a silicone case. What case do you
get your kids if you get them an iPhone?

Like what's...

I make

them buy their own cases at this point.

Well,

Excuse me, okay, I should have...

~

because they want, I would just buy them a
silicone case,

but they want clear case that they can put
a picture in and they want this

and whatever. So.

That's fair enough. maybe I'll let buy his
own case if he wants a clear one.

We got him a silicone case because just
felt like the thing to do.

AppleCare on a child's device is kind of a
pain in the butt because

I bought it through AT &T because the
additional line was just easier

to add that way and order it. But then
AppleCare,

you can't buy it when you buy it through
AT &T.

So I was going to add it after,

which I know you can. But in order to add
it on the phone,

It has to go like as a request for the
parent to approve like an ask

to buy because it's a subscription.

AppleCare. I was going to do the annual
AppleCare renewal and I think

I approve like I did approve it.

I clicked approve on my iPhone,

but I don't know if it's actually approved
yet.

So I have to the AppleCare sign up as a
pain in the butt on child devices

for that specifically not bought through
Apple.

So I have to figure that out, figure out
if I actually bought AppleCare or not.

But yeah.

He was very excited and of course I have a
1000 iPhone accessories that

he can then choose from. And so I gave him
a MagSafe battery,

gave him one of those funny MagSafe
backpacks that I did a short on.

You can get MagSafe backpacks now.

Did you know that? Yeah, yeah,

Yes, we went over it a week or two ago.

I saw you. Yeah, that's right.

But when I gave him the MagSafe battery,

I did tell him my older son has this habit
where he just leaves

the MagSafe battery on.

from the start of the day. He just puts it
on his phone.

And so it just keeps his phone charged
until the battery depletes and then

he uses the phone. And I told my 14 year
old,

listen, don't do that. Don't have the
magazine battery on there from

the beginning of the day. Just put it on
when your phone is low and let it charge.

And so I might try to dissuade my oldest
son of doing that.

We'll see. He might make a clip of this.

And if he hears this, then he'll know.

But yeah, don't put it on there from the
beginning.

But yeah, it's very exciting. It's a good
phone.

It's a good camera.

So yeah, 14. We did 14 for my middle son.

And we have one more child to gauge how
soon they get a phone.

But my daughter's only 10. So we have at
least a few years before we have

Yeah.

to make that decision. But what were your
kids' ages when they

got their first phone?

Well, we've talked about this before,

our girls got phones during COVID.

So they didn't get them at a time when
they probably would have otherwise.

Right.

And they both got them at the same time,

even though they're 22 months apart.

Again, because it was COVID, we wanted
them to have the ability

to stay connected with friends and that
they weren't going to see in person,

that kind of thing. Our son, I believe we
gave him one when he was,

well, we gave him a hand-me-down iPhone 11
Pro.

Which is the single best value in an Apple
product we've ever paid

right

for because it's now been five people's
phones But and it's now obsolete

Sure. Yes, exactly.

I think or vintage or whatever.

It is.

So I think if I go to get the battery
replaced They'll just actually give

me an iPhone 17, but So I should do that
but our yeah,

think he got it when he was 13 and then
our youngest is 12 He would like

one when he's turned 13. He would like one
when he turned 11,

but that was not gonna happen.

So I don't know

That's

too early for us.

Everybody gets

what everybody needs is the philosophy at
our house and we'll see when he needs one.

Yeah, that. It is just a...

I'm sure we have lots of parents
listening.

It is a tug of... push and pull.

It's like a lot of our kids' friends got
phones way earlier than they

did and that is a tension to manage of
like,

yes they did but they're also 11 and 12.

Like we just don't feel like this is a
real...

like you have an iPad, you have an Apple
Watch,

like... And the Apple Watch is another
thing where...

Transitioning it from a family setup Apple
watch to one that can now

be paired to his iPhone was like weird and
so basically had to factory reset

it add it back Apple needs to like figure
that out better like

Yeah.

the whole Transitioning from the iPad
Apple watch kid to the kid now

has an iPhone and everything needs to talk
to that And also all

the screen time settings didn't enable at
first.

I had to go on the iPhone and actually

share across devices, which is a toggle on
screen time,

which is like if I mean, what during the
setup process I had to sign into

my iCloud account because it recognized
that that my son's Apple ID was managed

by a parent account in a family.

And it's like, well, if I did that,

you should apply the same screen time
settings and assume I wanted to sync,

I would think. But all of that,

that whole setup is a little bit fraught.

But maybe I mean, iOS 27, the screen time
architecture is completely updated.

I'm gonna do a video on it when I actually
update my family devices because

I'm not gonna do it with the beta.

But we'll see. But he's got a phone now.

Speaking of, I'm living at the other end
of that.

I woke up this morning to an email that
said,

because today is our oldest 18th birthday,

and so I got an email from Apple that says
that she can now manage their

That's right, happy birthday.

own Apple account, including screen time
settings.

It says, according to the birthday
associated with her account,

she's now an adult and she has access to
her device settings,

including screen time. They're still part
of your family sharing group.

if asked to buy was turned on for their
account is still active,

which is nice because it means at least my
adult child can't just run up

my bill in the app store or whatever.

right. I am rich app for $999

We actually had this conversation briefly
yesterday,

which was we should probably put your
debit card on your Apple account

so that if you're at school and you decide
you need some stuff that you're going

That's right.

to pay for, don't. One, you can buy it,

you buy it.

and two, I don't really want those
requests because no,

Right. So wait,

I'm not paying for it. So anyway.

I'm curious. Does that mean screen time
managed by you just gets turned off?

they can manage their own.

But but does that mean it gets turned off
automatically?

Or does that mean you turn it off?

That's not how that works though,

Steven. Screen time is a thing that can be
managed by multiple,

like it could just be managed.

So like you can have your own screen time
and it can be managed.

No, I understand that, like the screen
time passcode,

like on a child's device, you set it so
the screen time passcode is required

to make changes to screen time.

Right, but they can't change that.

But the person who manages it can.

Correct.

So now she can manage it.

right.

So she can change her screen time
passcode.

So you

see what I'm saying? All the screen time
settings are the same.

She's just now able to manage that.

But so if you could answer this question
sometime,

I'm trying to answer this the way Apple
would answer this,

I know you sound, I feel like I'm in an
Apple briefing.

and I'm just kidding.

Let us know next week. What I'm curious is
when she goes into her phone today,

can she go to the screen time and does it
say set a screen time passcode?

Did it just remove the screen time
passcode you might've had set?

Like I'm curious the ramifications of that
specific.

I don't know, but I will say that
yesterday all of the allow changes things
that

like don't allow and they all say allow.

So it just did that automatically.

Yeah,

because she's 18.

But you didn't take any action on that.

No,

no, because she's she's an adult like
apples.

No, no, no, I know,

I know, but that is very curious.

Because technically, with two adults,

you can, ~ I guess you can't manage it
over iCloud.

and anyone can reset their passcode with
their Apple ID if it's allowed.

Right.

I mean, so you can disable changes to your
Apple account in a child's screen time

and then that option doesn't appear.

Right, right, right. And what I'm saying
is like,

let's just say for instance, I want screen
time on my phone and I don't want

to know the screen time passcode.

I'm going to just have my spouse know it.

This way I can't be on Instagram for 10
hours a day.

Technically you can set that up,

but it's all local on the device.

Meaning you have to hand your phone to
your partner.

They enter a screen time passcode that you
don't know.

And then that passcode is now set.

but you can't have someone manage it
remotely like you can with a kid's screen
time

account. Because like I can change the
screen time passcode for my kids devices
from

my iPhone. And so you're saying when the
birthday hits 18 years old

for a kid's device, Apple just shifts that
automatically.

Well,

I don't know, like I still have the option
to change her screen time passcode

or stop managing Madison's screen time.

What I believe is true is now we're
probably both able to do

Please confirm that, because I would
really like to know.

Because I just think that is a curious,

Sure.

as much as Apple says, like,

you know, we don't want to have to do age
verification to block people from

downloading social media apps and it's
your device and all that kind of stuff.

I think it's just interesting that they
assume that when your child is 18,

you, like, everything gets turned to
allow.

They're just curious.

I mean,

now her app limits still exist on here.

Yeah, she could just change them or she
could just enter the,

Right, but she could probably change that.

create a passcode and enter it.

Yeah, well,

like to be clear, you know, son,

we're a year from that. So my son will
turn 18 in April.

And, you know, we have been talking about
like,

I guess at that point, we just stopped
managing a screen time.

I guess like we haven't had like super
deep conversations that we assumed.

I figured that I would go in and turn off
the screen time passcode for his devices.

And what it sounds like is, well,

we, don't have to do anything because when
he turns 18,

Apple is going to allow him to make the
change himself.

I'll look at her phone today, but I think
that's true.

Please do,

please text me, because I'm very,

very curious how that works. ~ okay,

Yeah.

that's fascinating. Well, I'm we got there
because yeah,

I'm very curious. also, maybe we could do
a bonus episode or how much

You

you want to talk about her feelings about
it.

Does it feel like she's free now?

Is it intimidating? I'm curious,

know? I'm just curious that feeling,

because man, myself is gonna experience
that a year from now,

so we'll see.

Interesting. All right. Well, happy
birthday to your daughter.

We're going to talk. Yeah, we're going
talk about meta glasses

Teller.

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Leave us another five star review.

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and let's go record bonus episode.

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