Primary Technology

We will not go quietly into the night.

We will not vanish without a fight.

We're going to survive. We're going to
live on because today

is our independence day.

Welcome to Primary Technology,

the show about the tech news that matters.

It's Independence Week here in the US,

but we have a bunch of AI news.

Apple released big updates to Apple
Creator Studio and Final Cut.

My meta glasses that arrived today may
have a subscription attached,

and I'm not happy about that. Fable is
coming back.

OpenAI announced hardware for codex and a
ton more.

This episode is brought to you by Framer,

Keeper, Nordlayer, and you, the members
who support us directly.

I'm one of your hosts, Steven Robles
joined.

By my friend Jason Ayton. How's it going,

Jason?

Good. I'm just about finished my first cup
of coffee,

so I'm ready to do this. I mean,

we're doing this on a different day.

I don't know when we're publishing it,

A different day. Normal time. We'll
publish a normal time on Thursdays.

maybe normal, so no one will know.

But by the time people listen to this I'll
be in England,

so we had to do this. Thank you,

Steven.

Of course, of course. I imagine you know
where that quote is from.

Yeah, it's that one movie where they blow
up the Death Star.

Right, I thought so.

That's exactly right. That's exactly

right. Yeah. Okay. It's ~ from in yeah,

No, it's from Independence Day.

You said it right in the thing.

that's right. I forgot to say the quote.

I wanted to do that one. One, yes,

this is July fourth week, and ~ you know,

podcasts are doing the ~ different July
fourth stuff.

The decoder episode on Weber Grills is
pretty funny.

But my high school graduation,

the valedictorian, he had a little speech
and then he quoted

the Independence Day speech verbatim.

And let me tell you

That speech hit at a graduation.

And so yeah, that was super fun.

Adam Pintel was the valedictorian my high
school year,

so I still remember that. It was pretty
epic.

You're going to you're going to another
race,

right? Isn't that what you're doing?

Yeah, I'm going to the British Grand Prix.

Listen, you're you're a regular at these
Grampies.

That's

This is something. I really wanted Apple
to invite me to a World Cup game.

I'm trying.

That's what I really wanted because my s
my son has been into it.

My son.

But why would

Apple invite you to a World Cup game?

'Cause they do ins they do stuff with like
Apple T V and somebody went

to a soccer game. I saw whatever,

That's 'cause

but

they own MLS, but that's not the same as
World Cup Steven.

No,

I know, but I don't know. I see different
creators at these soccer games

Listeners,

Steven doesn't know sports, it's fine.

Don't send him messages.

I'm trying to get

into it. I'm w I we watched f full on
World Cup games in the last couple of
weeks.

Fox. Fox

has the World Cup. Apple TV just has I
mean,

Right.

they do have Messi because they have MLS,

but it's just I'm just saying

Well, an Apple TV

sponsors some of the stuff. I've seen the
Apple TV logo on some of

the jerseys of some of the players.

But anyway, I was just saying I looked up
how much it costs to go to

a World Cup game. One, they're all sold
out.

Two, there's like three more games coming
to Miami,

which I was like, that's pretty close.

And Messi is going to be playing in Miami
this Friday,

I believe. And that's my son's favorite
play.

He plays for Argentina, I believe.

For the World Cup, yeah, yeah,

You're saying for the World Cup.

Got it. Got it. Got

yeah.

it. Got it.

And ~ so I was like, wow, we would be
crazy if we went to a World Cup game.

One, sold out. Two, cheapest ticket was
six thousand dollars a piece.

And three, the only ticket still available
is like the private suites.

Just take a wild guess, Jason,

what a suite is at a World Cup game.

One one hundred twenty thousand dollars.

Thirty five thousand dollars for a person.

Per person? Or just for the suite?

~ well, I didn't get that far because
there was no chance I'll

I mean listen, if it's for a whole

seat with twenty people, that's a kill
that's a killer deal.

That's like five thousand bucks a person.

That's a killer deal. It's like a buy one,

Except we gotta buy them all.

get one free basically. It's that's the
that's

the thing. So anyway, yeah, hed head no
World Cup game out for us.

But we'll watch

I did I do

have a media credential for Dallas' site.

And there is a chance that the US will pla
if they keep winning,

they'll play in Dallas against but they
would have to beat France first

and then play Spain there, or beat Spain
first and play France.

I can't sorry that I can't remember the
exact order.

But if they beat Belgium, I mean if they
beat Bosnia and Herzegovia

A lot of teams. Yeah.

and then they beat Belgium, that next game
would be in Dallas.

And I but I so I was like, hmm,

Okay. Maybe.

should I should I think about going?

If I mean it would once every four years,

right? The World Cup it only comes around
periodically.

I mean it'll

be in Brazil next year, but for the women.

Which, just to be honest,

~ okay. I gotcha, gotcha.

at our house is the one that we actually
care about.

Because they're so much better.

interesting. Yeah. But your kids went to ~
I'm Well anyway,

Well,

no recourse.

the women have won four. So I was wearing
my world my US soccer hat and

the the US national team and the women's
US national team have the same crest,

except for that the women's crest has four
stars on it and the men's crest

has zero stars on it.

Well, that's because the women have won
four World Cups and the men have won zero.

Gotcha okay, I understand. I understand.

If

you look at the US men's na leading
scorers,

do you know who the US men's national team
you don't know who the

No. Yeah.

US men's national team leading scorer is
of all time?

Jason. wait, wait. No, no, I have no idea.

He's

on every broadcast, Clint Dempsey,

okay? And Landon Donovan.

I would have never guessed that name in a
thousand years.

Sorry. ~ okay.

They both have the they both have fifty
seven goals in national team goals.

They've scored more obviously for their
club.

Listen,

Okay.

I've learned more about football from my
middle son just by osmosis.

Like Lionel Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo.

And every time I see pictures of them I
have to look up how old are these guys?

Because I can I can't tell if they look
younger than they are or older than they

are.

Sure, but I just want you to so they both
have tied for fifty seven goals.

Okay. That's pretty good. Okay.

Yeah, it's wild. It's pretty good.

Yeah.

I just want you to guess who what what is
the most goals for a woman's national team

player. If the men are fifty seven,

Hmm.

right, like

Sir eighty three.

Add a hundred and one to that and you're
correct.

Abby Waback has the a hundred and eighty
four.

Wow. That's wild.

fifty seven would put you somewhere on
like fifteenth on the list of women.

Just I'm just I'm just saying they're
good.

Okay. Interesting.

Inter they are good. I w I just hate to
admit this to you,

but I will say when I sit down and
actually watch a sporting event,

I do enjoy it. I do I do enjoy it.

I will I've always like enjoyed watching
tennis,

believe it or not. Like I used to watch
tennis in high school because

we had tennis courts at our like housing
development or whatever and

we I'll play tennis and I I watched like
Pete Sampras and Andre Agassi play

and I really was into it. Like I enjoyed

watching the US Open. No, I watched them
on TV.

Like you saw them live? ~ okay,

No, no, no. Sorry, sorry. Although I was
in New York at the time.

okay, okay, okay. Yeah, that's why I was
like,

Like I was close. I was close.

there's a possibility

No, no, no. I was watching on TV.

But I I really enjoyed watching that.

And I had never watched a football match
front to back.

But since my son's been watching it,

we have YouTube TV. It's like,

all right, well let's just watch the whole
game.

It's it's enjoyable to watch. Like it's
it's a lot of drama and anyway,

it's good. And we'll tie that to tech,

Anyway.

the Apple Vision Pro ~ immersive thing
about Real Madrid,

also very good. And we'll do that.

Anyway, this is not this is the most
sports we ever talked about on this show.

I don't even know what to do now because
like are we a sports show now?

Just kidding. Sport sports on his side.

Are we sats? Sports on the side.

Nay Nay Nay would ~ he would kill me if I
did more sports with you than

I did because he he cares sports.

Yes.

All right, we have some five star review
shout outs.

Old Gaffer Javis in Canada had very nice
words with our favorite tech podcast.

Thank you for that.

Fishazel from the USA, one of the few
podcasts I listen to regularly.

Thank you for that. And Apple GUI from the
USA.

This was an interesting suggestion.

They said Apple should make their own RAM
and storage to help with

the RAM pocalypse that's going on right
now.

And I will point everyone to a recent
accidental tech podcast episode where they

talked about that specifically.

And I will link this Mastodon post where
Joe Lyon

Kind of goes on to explain one of the
reasons why Apple manufacturing

its own RAM and storage might not be as ~
conducive to these lower prices.

One, it would take a long time to spin up,

like five to ten years. If Apple was
building its own fab from scratch,

also the machinery that's used to make
these kinds of chips are very specialized.

It would be difficult, if not impossible,

to acquire. And also the training that has
to go into the people making this

equipment. So five to ten years.

at maybe the earliest and also whether it
would be cost effective after

all of that investment remains to be seen.

So that's some of the reasons why,

but I'll link this Mastodon and in that
Mastodon quote is also the

ATP episode if you want to listen to that.

But yeah.

Yeah, and

also when the price if when the price
comes back down,

you do not want to be four and a half
years into a five year plan to build

a fab and be like that's not gonna be
worth it anymore and you spent

all of that money. It's and I I mean
there's a it's just math,

right? Like, yes, Apple could absolutely
get the equipment.

Cause they have a lot of money and they
could just throw some money at the
problem.

But the amount of money they'd have to
throw at the problem makes it

no longer a good solution for the problem
they currently have.

Exactly, exactly. We'll get into a couple
pricing of follow-ups too,

because we recorded that very off the cuff
last week because it happened after

we recorded. ~ but I want to do shout out
Ian in Australia,

our polar bear and medieval night has made
it all the way there.

They didn't do an outside photo because
it's actually winter there in Australia.

Remember, it's different down there in the
Southern Hemisphere.

It's different down there.

~ listen, I it took me a second.

He was like, It's winter here.

I like, What? ~ right. Southern
hemisphere.

so they pull but it's in Australia and
when it warms up,

we'll get some more photos out there.

I have some more pins to send out too.

So listen, if you're going to Antarctica,

it's the last continent left to conquer
the medieval night on the polar bear,

so let us know. And I wanted to do a
couple very quick follow ups on

the UK social ban. We had some nice
comments,

those in the in on YouTube, and so
appreciate your thoughts.

I wanted to follow up with this news,

which was that Labor unveiled that the
social media ban.

Also has a clause that third parties
providing

age verification technology for the social
media ban will become also

be compelled to provide information to the
government.

And so this is a little clause in there.

So whether whatever you think about the
social media band,

~ you have to think about how do you feel
about the

age verification information having to be
shared with the government as

a part of this entire process.

Just gonna throw that in there.

Just you know.

I still feel exactly the same way I did
before.

Bad.

For sure, for sure.

And then you put an article in our Notion
document that ~ I I couldn't

I couldn't the the Notion document was
embedding all kinds of crazy things.

But can you tell me about this wired story
about Meta?

Well, I mean, essentially what was
happening here is that Meta

had third party contractors 'cause Meta
likes third party contractors

to do their dirty work, right?

And they were essentially feeding prompts
into rival chatbots

on topics well, first of all, they're
posing to be teens,

right? So these contractors would tell the
chatbot that it was a teen

Right.

and have conversations with it about a lot
of topics that you would hope there would

Right.

be guardrails for.

Now, according to some of Meta's ~ either
spokespeople,

you know, this is apparently standard
practice,

right? It's except for the part where you
pretended maybe to be a minor

to have these conversations. And Meta has
not said what its reason

for doing this is, right? It's like,

Mm.

are you were you like there are a lot of
scenarios here,

and then I'm gonna get to why they think
this matters.

One scenario is like you're just doing
opposition research.

And you're hoping to find a really
terrible story and then somehow that leaks

to the media and there's a really bad news
story about Chat GPT or Claude

Somehow. Yep.

or Gemini or whatever, right? That's one
scenario.

Right. Side note, I learned what Apple
research was because of ~

the Christmas movie on Apple T V Plus.

Spirited with Will Farrell and Ryan
Reynolds.

Okay. I mean you've been watching the West
Wing for a while,

Anyway. That is true. No,

you should have come across it at least
once now.

yeah, I did there too. Yeah. Sorry,

Okay. So

go ahead.

there there's that possibility.

There's also the possibility that this is
just part of how you train,

like how do the responses handle different
things or whatever.

The problem is this is meta. So typically
we should probably just assume

the worst case option. And so I don't I
don't think this is a good look for them.

Right, right.

No, well, ~ they're rarely good looks for
meta,

let's be honest. There are no good looks.

There are no good looks for Meta.

That's true.

That's it. And one follow-up, RTM sent me
an email,

and he actually posted this originally on
X,

but pointed out an interesting tidbit of
information on the WatchOS 27 webpage,

the developer webpage on Apple's website,

and it talks about how you can use the
vision framework on Watch OS

to bring image understanding to the wrist.

Now, Apple is saying this is for smart
cropping a photo.

So the subject fills the display or read a
barcode from a saved document,

which seems like a weird thing to do on
Apple Watch.

Yeah,

I don't none of these are things that you
do in your Apple Watch,

are they?

I don't I don't even know how I would get
a document on my Apple Watch 'cause

I accidentally

tapped on something on my watch the other
day and it opened a browser and I'm like,

where did that come from? I guess I knew
there was technically a browser

Yeah. Yep. Technically.

on my watch, but I'm like, What are you
doing?

Why is it loading?

But

his point was there are a lot of
interesting APIs when it relates to image
stuff

and scanning, face and human recognition,

even something like lens smudge detection.

So that is some curious information about
Watch OS twenty seven and

may allude to things in the next ~ models
of Apple Watch.

We'll see. I'll let you know come to your
own conclusions if you would like.

Yeah. All right.

But I thank you for Artem for for pointing
that out.

All right. There was actually some news
this week.

One, I did want to do some pri Apple
pricing reducts because last week,

I think I think it was the first time
ever,

we were like, we gotta record something
because Apple changed all the prices

and it was big news. And we talked about
it off the cuff.

I wanted to point out that I did some math
on my Mac Studio.

Phew. Let me tell you, Jason.

You mean like

about your Mac studio. You don't mean like
you use the calculator app.

Just clarifying. Okay, just clarifying.

No, that no no no no no no.

My max studio, which I bought a year ago,

it's an M4 Max, 128 gigs of unified
memory,

eight terabyte SSD. I went all the way.

Number one, that model is no longer
available.

M4 Max, Max Studio, you can only get with
64 gigs of memory.

If you want 96, which is the most you can
order right now,

you have to get the M3 Ultra, and it
doesn't come till October.

So you can't even get my model.

But if you extrapolate the memory upgrade
pricing from the M5 Max MacBook

Pro from 64 to 128, which is like a $1,300
increase,

my Mac Studio is $3,000 more expensive
today than it was a year ago.

And I didn't really need to update last
year.

I had an M1 Max Mac Studio and it was
good,

but man, I really I think foresaw the
future and it was wonderful.

And I'm so glad I upgraded then.

And David Sparks looks like

the most clairvoyant Apple pundit ever
because he upgraded to an M5

Max MacBook Pro that was like maxed out.

And he did that like three or four weeks
ago,

right before the price increased.

Yeah.

And his computer would have been something
like twenty eight hundred dollars more

expensive if he had waited. And he was
waiting for an M5 Max Max Studio,

hopefully, but he yeah, he he timed that
very well.

And so I saw a lot of comments on our
YouTube video

And people on socials, they were like,

I just bought a bunch of stuff on Amazon.

People were like, I was gonna buy myself a
MacBook Air for my birthday ~ next month,

but it became an early birthday present
because I could save four hundred dollars

buying it on Amazon right now.

So yeah. And you wrote a couple pieces
about this.

Well yeah, I mean I just I just keep
adding links to the thing for Steven.

Yeah, 'cause I keep seeing pop up in the
notion,

I know and we may have talked about the
second one,

yeah.

but basically I wrote a piece because I
occur people keep asking me this time

of year. Should I wait? What's coming?

They think that we know Steven.

They think that we just we have a podcast
so we just already know what

the specs are gonna be of the iPhone
eighteen.

And I'm like

There was a r

did you see that video of the supposed
iPhone eighteen pro?

I understand, but like I can't give anyone
advice

about that because I haven't actually seen
them or used them or whatever.

But it doesn't matter because every year
the advice is the same.

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Unless you need a phone right now,

it's probably a good idea to just wait
till September if you can,

because then you will at least be able to
make a more informed decision.

Right. And if you really like the iPhone
17,

if you wait, it'll be on sale for a
hundred dollars less,

probably brand new in September.

Probably. Probably.

So like that's usually the advice I give
people.

This year I'm like, you should just go buy
one.

In fact, you should buy two. Maybe get one
for everyone in your family

and then put a couple in the drawer
because I don't think that there's ever
been

That's it. Investments.

a better time to buy an iPhone.

I don't think there will ever be a better
time in the future because

all of these phones are going to be what
do you think?

A hundred, maybe two hundred dollars more
expensive?

So here's the thing I we didn't make clear
last week,

I don't think. Several product categories
did not raise in price,

which is the iPhone, Apple Watch,

AirPods. All of those prices are still the
same from Apple.

And a bunch of people who were saying
Apple's waiting for this fall

to raise those prices on the Apple Watch
and the iPhone.

I I will make a prediction here and we
will see if I'm right in a couple months.

I think the base model iPhone.

Will stay the same price. I think they
want that I don't think they want

to make it any more expensive than $7.99.

$7.99 for an iPhone 17 right now.

To make that $900 close to $1,000,

I don't think they want to do that.

But the Pro models, probably $100 more
expensive,

maybe more. If they come out with a fold
this fall,

$2,500 at least. Maybe $3,000.

That's what I'm saying.

Pro money is what you're saying.

Vision Pro went up in price, which nobody
cares,

That's true. Which is insane. But
percentage wise,

but yeah. Well,

it was like the least increase of
everything.

percentage wise, yeah, but like yeah

It's like a Mac Studio

went up th half of a Vision Pro.

The Vision Pro itself went up just like a
home pod.

Yeah. No one was scrambling to buy a
Vision Pro on Amazon,

But yeah, there is still a supply and
demand thing at work here.

I'll tell you that, which you can't even
do.

Right.

You can only raise the Then again,

if it's a product no one's buying,

That is true.

you can charge whatever the heck you want
for it 'cause it doesn't matter.

It's just a number. I think that the
iPhone,

the base iPhone, I don't disagree with you
that they'd like to keep that price

the same.

I think that the way they do that is they
keep the iPhone seventeen for sale

for the same price. In sake instead of
dropping the price a hundred dollars,

Yeah, which yeah. Sure.

they're going to keep the iPhone seventeen
for sale at seven ninety nine

and the eighteen is gonna be eight ninety
nine.

All right.

And then well because they I mean we we
argued about this and I took

Well we'll see. We'll see.

the position that they didn't,

but they basically did raise iPhone prices
last year because they dropped

the hundred and twenty eight gig model.

So the least you can get an iPhone Pro for
is ten ninety nine when it used

to be nine ninety nine.

That ten ninety nine, is it gonna be
eleven ninety nine or eleven fift forty
nine?

They could they could bring back the lower
storage tiers.

I don't think they would ever do that,

but they could s

So wait, it's

gonna be ten ninety nine for a hundred and
twenty eight gig.

That actually is a likely thing scenario.

But even the iPhone seventeen,

right now it's seven hundred ninety nine
dollars,

and you get two hundred and fifty six gigs
of storage.

Yeah, so I think i there's a ch scenario
where maybe they bring back

the hundred and twenty eight, but it's the
seven ninety nine price,

which is a price hike.

Right.

It would be a price hike, but they could
still say iPhone eighteen starts

at seven ninety nine. I think however
they're gonna finagle it,

Interesting.

they're gonna they wanna say iPhone
eighteen starts at seven ninety nine.

Same price as last year, even if it's
lower storage.

Or they're gonna say

iPhone eighteen, it's so great and we've
added a little bit more memory

so it can run all this Apple intelligence.

So it's eight ninety nine. But don't
worry,

you can still get the iPhone seventeen for
the same price you could yesterday.

Well yeah, it's true. Alright,

well we'll see. We'll see. And I I wanted
to be very clear on this part because

I talked about how the Apple TV and
HomePod went up in price and they have

not been updated in four plus years.

But the other thing I wanted to mention to
be clear,

the Apple TV runs on an iPhone chip,

namely the A fifteen Bionic, an old iPhone
chip.

And somehow it got a price hike where the
iPhone did not.

Yeah.

I just wanna lay that out there.

And the same with the home pod.

Home pods

run on Apple Watch chips like the S7.

And we're already on the S11 in like the
Series 11.

So HomePod and HomePod Mini that run on
Apple Watch chips went up in price,

but the Apple Watch did not. Same chips.

And a lot of people online as I was saying
this were like,

well, they just wanted to raise the prices
now because when they introduced

the new models in September or October,

it won't be a price hike. They'll just
keep the same prices.

Even if that's true

It still feels insane to hike the price on
a four plus year old device using

old chips. And the Apple T V comes with
sixty four gigs of memory or storage,

like stock. It's not a lot of not of
storage.

I I there's

a scenario though where I think it's
possible that this just means there's

a new one coming and now they don't have
to raise a price when the

new one comes out.

Well

and that that's what I mean. That's what
everybody's saying.

Is like they don't want to have to raise
price when the new one comes out,

which I get. But I think at least when a
new one comes out that's better,

hiking the price thirty bucks or fifty
bucks then,

I feel like it'd be more justified than
now.

But I we'll see. We'll see. Listen,

I'm all for a new Apple TV and a new home
pod.

Just put thread in every model Apple T V
and give me a home pod with a screen.

I'll pay you a thousand dollars.

Maybe not that much, but probably.

Do you think threat is thread isn't there
some thread thread news that

we should be talking about?

like matter one point six or something?

Sure, something something that's finally
gonna it's finally

Thread? Something something.

gonna do the only thing that anyone cared
about it doing,

right?

So Matter one point six, it is going to
when you add a device to your home
network,

let's say you add it to your Apple home
app,

matter one point six means you won't have
to add it to Google and Amazon.

It should just automatically talk to all
the things.

And we'll see. Suppose w Matter one point
four is what's supported

in iOS twenty seven. So Apple is gonna
have to adopt that one point six even
later.

So we're it's like a long way off,

I think.

But also,

shouldn't matter point zero zero zero zero
zero wasn't that the promise?

Was that it was gonna do that?

Sure. Sure. Yes it was. And

Okay, I'm just checking.

I will say I have a Google Home speaker,

by the way. It came in. I have my Google
Home Speaker in my family room.

the kids have been asking it random
knowledge questions,

which it's good at because it's Gemini in
the speaker,

Yeah, it's Google.

basically. It's a bit of a watered-down
Gemini,

but it'll tell you about black holes and
it will make a fart sound if you ask it,

~ because my kids did. ~ it will also do
some trivia.

It won't do an escape room, but it'll do
like a

escape room Jason. But anyway,

all that to say, I have a video coming out
about universal remotes.

And this universal remote does not talk to
Apple Home,

but it does talk to Google Home.

So I can now I've hacked a universal
remote and hub into my Gemini speaker

and I can do weird things with it.

And so anyway, I'm excited about that.

Everything about that sounded weird,

It all sounded weird, but I'm excited
about it.

Stephen.

Okay, I what I am excited about genuinely
is Final Cut got an update,

as did a lot of Creator Studio apps.

And the final cut update is actually
really good.

One, you can finally do generated
captions.

So if you want to make reels or whatever,

you can generate those captions.

You can change the styles. It's not ideal.

You can't like save a caption style
template,

and there's not the option to say,

you know, give me one word captions,

like just give me a one word on screen,

or only give me two lines maximum.

You kind of have to hack how the cuts in
the captions,

and then it'll reformat it. So it's not
ideal,

but.

You can finally do it, which I thought
this was coming once they transcribed
every

video you imported to Final Cut.

You can now actually use them as captions.

So that's good. Works on iPad and iPhone.

And there's this new masking tool called
Auto Mask,

and it is wild. One, you don't have to
like do the weird click the subject

and make sure the red highlight is
correct.

This one is just gonna quickly identify
hair,

skin, the full subject.

And then you can it's an immediate mask.

So if you want to change someone's hair
color or color correct a part

of the subject and not another,

it's really smart and it's really good.

I tried it yesterday. Super cool.

So kudos for the updates there.

I'm waiting for the news about Motion VFX
being acquired by Apple because that

happened a number of months ago.

And I'm waiting for them to announce like,

hey, these plugins for Motion VFX are now
a part of Creator Studio.

I think that'll be the other shoe to drop.

But

But good updates. There were updates to
logic and compressor and small updates
here

and there. But yeah.

Well,

and I actually like the for Final Cut now
they have the edit detection.

So like if you have a rendered clip and
you open it back up,

it will essentially create edit points at
all of the like if the scene changes

or whatever. So that if you want it,

you're like, we gotta take that piece out.

You don't have to go back in and do that.

It'll just it'll do it automatically.

~ I think it's gonna be interesting.

Like this is good, but I don't this is
still like Apple

protecting its position is like this has
to still be perceived as a pro feature.

So they're doing a lot of pro feature
things.

Like I feel like the one thing that Final
Cut Pro is the worst at and it's

the thing I think people want it to do the
most is like,

great, I have a horizontal video.

Could you just do make it make it a great
vertical video for me?

Do all the tracking, do all the stuff.

Yeah.

There are tools that can do this now,

Steven, and it would be a in Apple,

there's no reason why it shouldn't be able
to build this in to its tool.

You know what ~ what does that really
quickly is Riverside two point

Well, I just did this in Descript,

Steven. And here's the crazy thing.

Huh well.

You I uploaded a video to Descript the
other day.

It was a vertical or horizontal video.

It was four and a half minutes long.

And I said, I need a reel that's 90
seconds long.

And it made me a reel. And it's like
finding all of the highlights,

You just did it.

finding the key points, tracking this,

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

doing all this. And it just did it.

Like Final Cut should just do that.

I should just be able to take my video and
make now make this vertical

Yeah.

and edit it down to 90 seconds.

Because that's also what all the apps that
the youth use to make their stuff,

like Cap Cut. And that's the all the
comeback for all of these updates in Final
Cut.

It's like, well, Cap Cut's free.

Like you c it's very hard to beat that,

especially when Cap Cut is made for these
kinds of real type videos.

I still use the edits app and when this
update came out yesterday,

I was like, ~ maybe cause I start my edits
in Final Cut,

because I record my reels, I cut them up
in Final Cut,

and the last part of my process is

Airdropping the vertical end renders into
the edits app on my iPhone just

to add captions. And I was like,

well, maybe this will solve that.

But not being able to save a template and
not having the granular control

of like give me two lines maximum per
caption.

It's like, I think it's actually still
going to be faster to airdrop it

Right.

to my phone and just use the edits app.

So hopefully they, yeah. And I just teased
Riverside 2.0 because we

are going to talk about it. Because it's
actually AI news.

I was just trying to get you going.

my meta glasses arrived today,

Jason. My meta A glass, they're they're
coming a little early,

but I'm actually going on a trip,

so we'll see if I'll be able to I'm going
to the beach again.

So we'll see if they come in time.

And I'm probably not gonna use them on the
beach because that'd be weird.

Anyway, the meta glasses have a hidden
subscription,

apparently. And there's a feature called
the conversation focus feature,

which is not a conversation with the AI
chatbot that's built into the glasses,

meta AI. Conversation focus is where if
you're talking to someone

The glasses will enhance their voice in
your ears,

basically like play it back. Kind of like
AirPods Pro has a feature where

you can have that focus on the on the
speaker.

Meta's gonna max that out at three hours
per month of use,

unless you pay twenty dollars for Meta One
premium.

And A, this is really stupid because this
is not using any kind of cloud token

AI service. This happens on device.

That is according to The Verge.

So it's like, why are you charging a
subscription for something that

It's not even hitting your servers.

And B, for a feature like that,

you would probably be used way more than
three hours per month because

if you're having conversations with
people,

like that's the main feature. And this
feels just like gouging.

And this is, again, back to meta doing
unsavory things.

This just feels like that. Just a random
subscription for no reason.

This just

feels like BMW putting the seat heaters
into every car and then charging

you a subscription fee if you want to use
them.

That ki that kind of stuff. Like what are
we what are we doing?

So

Only it's

worse. It's like BMW gave you three hours
of seat warming a month.

And if you need more, because you know you
live in Michigan,

Right, exactly.

you have to pay more.

And and the price goes up in the winter.

Yeah, it's more in the winter than the
summer.

Yeah, exactly.

It's like, thanks, thanks, everybody.

So we'll see. Surge pr surge pricing for
heat seating.

Surge pricing. Yeah.

We'll see if that ~ anyway, I'm gonna get
my glasses.

I'll talk about them next week.

Gemini Spark, there's a lot of AI news
this week,

but Gemini Spark is now rolling out on the
Mac app and it can do automated tasks,

basically like Claude Cowork. Like if you
want it to rename files,

you want it to take actions in your finder
and folders and all that kind of stuff.

Gemini Spark is gonna be able to do that
with the Mac app.

I think we've talked about this before.

When the Gemini Mac app first came out,

I downloaded it to try it, and then I
remembered that Google installs

all those weird utilities in the
background,

like Google updater, that automatically
adds itself to open whenever you

log in your computer and does stuff in the
background.

And so I deleted it all. And I'm not gonna
download the Gemini app just for this.

So no.

Yeah,

I'm not either. I'm I don't have the
Gemini app on my MacBook Air.

There are definitely some things that
Gemini's great at,

and I'll use it for that. I find that like
I had a f I I needed to send somebody

Yeah. Sure.

a reference photo and I found a photo of
the the an environment that

I wanted to send someone, but it had like
it was like a engagement photo that

I had taken many, many years ago,

and I wanted to take the people out of it,

right? And I just literally said to
Gemini,

keep everything about this photo the same
except for take the people out.

And it just

Did it. And it did it but and the only
reason I would I wouldn't use that

for other purposes other than wanting to s
show someone here's a here's a

s here's a reference photo we could use
for this scene.

I that it's insane that it can do that,

but that's not worth having that app on my
computer because of all

Yeah, yeah.

of the weird stuff Google wants to do.

Yeah.

That's the thing. That's the thing.

And so I'll use Gemini in the browser if
need to.

I for image stuff, I still find it to be
the best.

And they just released Nano Banana 2 Lite,

which is their fastest image generation
tool.

They said it's really good. So I still
will use it for that.

I think I pay for Google AI Plus for $20
because I sometimes forget what's what

subscriptions I'm paying for.

Did you see?

Was it the Verge that just wrote a like
the $20 a month AI subscription

is not sustainable? I think there's like
somebody just wrote that article,

and I'm like, yeah, I think that's about
right because every single

one of these companies wants you to pay
$20 a month for Meta Premium

Yes.

Pro Plus Max plus for Gemini for
everything else.

Yeah, yeah.

And it's like, do you think there's gonna
be a point where and then

the reason is like they all sort of keep
leapfrogging each other in capability?

~ we need them to settle down.

Yeah.

See that.

They need to settle down and I've been
I've been canceling subscriptions when

I see them come up because like I tried
Bitfocus,

which is an AI coding app, a third party
AI coding app that integrates with like

your Apple s app store connect or
whatever.

I tried it for a month, ~ a couple months
ago and I forgot there was

a trial or whatever. And so I saw the
charge come up on my Apple card

and it like twenty twenty twenty dollars.

Bitfocus are like, ~ and so I keep trying
to cancel them as they come up,

but it does feel like a death of a
thousand cuts.

Like it's it's not good.

Yeah, and

I the I in their mind they're like,

Well, that's what all the streaming
services do.

The thing is Disney Plus is different
content than Netflix.

Right? Like if I'm paying for both the
Disney Plus and Netflix,

Yeah.

it's because I want to watch both Stranger
Things and MCU stuff,

right? Like but that's not true on these
other ones.

Right.

There's marginal differences, sure.

So you should just find the one that's the
best at the things you need

and just pay for that.

That's the thing. And so you know,

and they've sponsored well, Copilot Money
sponsored last week.

And so use Copilot Money, you use some
service that lets you know when

you have subscriptions and how many you
should cancel because 'cause you should.

~ and one more thing before we take a
break,

'cause then we're gonna get into Claude
and Riverside two point agents because

Jason's got a mini rant, I think.

But Jason told me about this in the pre
show right before we started recording.

I I did not believe that this existed.

You know, they sponsor I think they've
sponsored this show and I think they
sponsor

Yes, they have a couple times.

my price. They have a couple of times.

Yes.

But one password has an C P server.

I'm just gonna say right here.

I'm I don't wanna connect my password
manager to to AI.

I don't wanna do that.

Yeah, and I I know several people.

I've interviewed the current CEO of of One
Password and the and the former

Yeah.

CEO of One Password. I think they do great
work.

Like I think if you need a I hi I have no
problem not because they sponsored us.

Great work.

Like I don't I never know who's sponsoring
us until Steven says the words.

Yeah. That's right.

Like it have nothing to do with any of
that.

So this is not because they sponsored us.

I j you can read the articles I've
written,

interviewing them. I think that like
they're doing a they're do great work.

I don't think you need a powerful command
line tool to bring your

one password stuff into the terminal.

I don't understand what the benefit of
that.

Like, I don't know, maybe there is some
stuff there that I just don't get.

Maybe it's handling things in a way,

but it does generally seem like I don't
think I should send my one password data

to Claude.

That's the that's the thing. I don't you
know,

I like cloud for a lot of things.

Some things I say don't look at that.

Don't go in there.

Yeah.

Listeners, if there is a good reason that
Steven and I are completely missing,

leave us a five-star review and then
nicely explain to us what we're missing.

That's right. Please yeah, please

Please.

please do that. And this is a great segue
because listen,

if you're looking for password managers,

there are a bunch of them out there,

and one of them is sponsoring this episode
right now,

which is Keeper. Keeper is awesome.

I've downloaded Keeper. It's a unique
design,

first of all, for a password app.

It's opinionated in its fonts.

It's a great little app, but you can do
Keeper both for your personal

use and for Teams. And it does all the
things.

And one of the things I I love about

Keeper is all the different kinds of
logins and information you can put into
it.

So if you want to save your travel rewards
information,

you want to save things like bank account
informations,

even social security numbers. I keep that
kind of stuff in a password

app like Keeper because I want to be able
to access it quickly and I want

to know that it is secure. Keeper is a
password manager that creates strong,

unique passwords for all your accounts.

Of course, it does that, stores them
securely in one place and logs

you in automatically across all your
devices so you never have to remember,

guess, or worry.

About your login credentials again.

And you can do it for your personal,

you can do it for family and share it with
everyone.

And then you can have the shared logins,

whoever needs those. And for businesses,

Keeper takes the chaos out of managing
access for teams so they

can securely share logins, control
permissions,

and protect sensitive data without slowing
down day-to-day work.

And if you don't use a password manager
and you do have a team or lead a team,

and there's a bunch of logins everyone
needs to share,

get keeper, share them securely.

It's the way to do it.

And what people really notice is how
simple Keeper is.

It has security features like the autofill
and face ID,

of course. Fingerprint login quietly make
things easier.

Best in class protection. Doesn't feel
like extra work.

It just happens in the background.

And keeper helps you stop thinking about
passwords altogether and just

get on with your day. So right now,

keeper is offering our listeners 60% off
personal and family plans

at keepersecurity.com/slash primary.

This offers only for podcast listeners.

That's keepersecurity.com slash primary.

For 60% off personal and family plans.

And make sure you use our link down in the
show notes so they know we sent you,

or just type in keepersecurity.com slash
primary.

Our thanks to Keeper for sponsoring this
episode.

And I have a fun story about this next
sponsor,

which is Framer. Framer is an incredible
platform for building websites.

But I actually saw a friend of the show,

Parker Ordellani, actually talk about this
on X.

He worked on his website and I saw in his
post.

They revamped the website using the new
Framer agent.

And I was like, wait a minute.

I know Framer. And so I went to his
website and I'll put a link in the show
notes

to Parker's website. This page,

his about page, beautiful. Love it.

It looks great, shows the places he's
worked,

beautifully designed, works great on all
the devices,

the screen sizes. And I was like,

that was a framer agent made this website.

And I was like, that's all I need to know.

This is an awesome service. So here's what
you do you got to try Framer.

So if your team wants a website that looks
and feels handcrafted but

is still fast to ship, Framer is built for
that.

You design on Visual Canvas with
responsive layouts,

hosting, CMS built in so the work is
production ready from day one.

And you can even do really cool things
like A B testing a landing page or home
page.

What actually on a page makes people
convert to actually buy your product

or sign up for your thing or sign up for
your email address?

And Framer is a complete website platform,

not just a builder.

So teams can launch and keep improving
their sites in one place.

Thousands of businesses from early stage
startups to Fortune 500s are using

it to build their websites in Framer where
changes take minutes instead of days.

And those agents, like Parker was talking
about,

agents in Framer work alongside teams to
streamline collaboration

on the same canvas, build custom code
components,

create and manage CMS content,

optimize SEO settings, and ship everything
all in one place.

Framer is an enterprise-level solution
powered by agents that provides premium

hosting.

Enterprise grade security and ninety-nine
point ninety nine percent uptime SLAs.

So learn how you can get more out of your
site from a framer specialist

or get started building for free today at
Framer dot com slash primary

for thirty percent off a framer pro annual
plan.

That's framer.com slash primary for thirty
percent off.

Framer dot com slash primary. Be like
Parker,

make a great website. It's great for
businesses and for individuals.

Rules and restrictions apply. Framer.com
slash primary.

Our thanks to Framer for sponsoring this
episode and finally

our friends at Nordlayer with the coolest
landing page around with

our podcast artwork prominently displayed.

I absolutely love it. So you built your
website,

you got your password secure with Keeper,

and then you're going to protect your
entire business,

your entire company with Nordlayer,

because it's a network security platform
for modern teams across different work

environments. It enables secure access to
company systems,

centralized control over users,

and a ton more.

So, yes, you protect company data as your
team works remotely or across locations.

You grant access based on identity,

device, and context, monitor user activity
and device health all in one place.

And you can replace those legacy VPNs and
reduce infrastructure overhead.

Plus, it blocks malware, phishing,

risky domains, detects unusual activity
across users and devices,

and you can enforce security policies
automatically.

That's important in a team. You know,

people sometimes are a little slippery.

You gotta enforce all that security.

But you get high speed performance up to
one gigabit per second,

dedicated secure gateways for traffic
routing and site-to-site connectivity.

So if you need to figure out how to
connect multiple physical locations

on your network, Nordlayer can help with
that.

Users verified by SSO and MFA,

access automatically revoked upon
offboarding,

so you don't have to worry about that.

And a ton more. So here's what you do:

you have an exclusive offer, get up to 22%
off Nordlayer yearly plans,

plus another 10% off on top of that with
coupon code primary technology 10.

Try it risk-free, 14-day money back
guarantee.

Go to Nordlayer.com slash primary
technology.

22% off plus 10% more with coupon code
primary technology10

at Nordlayer.com slash primary technology.

Our thanks to Nordlayer for sponsoring
this episode.

I love the synergy. I mean, we got all
like you protect your passwords,

you build your website, you protect to it.

It's just, it's like that's all right
there.

It's built in. All right, before we get to
Riverside 2.0,

let's talk about Sonnet.

Because everybody everybody just be
releasing new models.

I feel do you have model fatigue yet?

Are you kinda like, I thought we got all
the models?

Are we good? Or do you do you get excited
for these new models?

I feel like the the one challenge of model
fatigue.

I don't I kinda feel like we don't we
shouldn't be thinking so much about

the models. What I mean by that is like,

Yeah, that.

yeah, Mac OS twenty six dot six dot four
like has some

new feature thing, but like we don't like
throw a party,

right? It's like, okay, good, there's some
new features,

No.

but it's still just Mac OS twenty six.

Like that's f that's what it is.

And I feel like it's

That should be like okay, we went from
Sonnet four point eight to five.

It's like I don't do in the but that
there's but that's not even the good one.

There's there's Opus four point nine.

Right.

And the fact that four point nine sits
between the old sonnet and the new sonnet,

like I don't understand, Steven.

It's yeah. And and it's coming back.

And then there's Fable. Fable's a myth,

mythos. Apparently.

Fables yeah,

it's making a it's making a comeback.

But anyways, ~ Sonnet five is out there.

You can use it in Claude right now.

I did use it, I did it for a task.

I've been keeping my Claude on Opus four
point eight just for everything.

Every request. Even when I'm asking how
tall is Ryan Gosling,

I have Opus think about it real hard.

I'm like just Opus four point eight
everything.

Yeah.

~ but I use Sonnet five. I was doing my
Cloudflare worker work.

yesterday and I was like, let's see.

And it is fast. It is much faster than
Opus 4.8 because it's not

a quote unquote thinking model.

And it still gave me the right answers.

Like it's it's good. You know,

these models do really good work.

And this is the thing that these companies
can talk about the most,

I guess, is like our new model.

Like that's what car companies like.

Our new model of car for 2027 is all that.

And it's just it's that. It's more
agentic,

which is the code word that we're gonna be
talking about more in a moment.

Everything's agentic

so yeah, they're Sonnet Five and also the
Department of Commerce

has lifted export controls on Claude Fable
V and Mythos V.

So yeah, all the all the fables and the
mythos,

I guess you'll be able to use them.

And I'll finally be able to not have that
pop up in the Claude app like Fable Five's

not available. It's like, stop telling me.

I don't care. Like it's very pathognosive.

That that's the passive aggressive part.

Is you're the th

anthropic's main marketing message right
now is we made something so good

the big mean government won't let you have
it.

And so then they're gonna tell you about
it all the time.

Yeah. And that's it

it feels a little bit like a hype cycle of
like so good you can't have

it and it's like, but it's coming back.

Don't worry, and now it's here.

It's like okay. I'm gonna use Fable Five
to ask how tall is Ryan Gosling

and we'll see if he gives me a better
answer.

And it's gonna charge you sixteen thousand
tokens.

And you're gonna hit your rate limit by
the time you ask the second question.

That that's the thing.

That's it. Now, this next part,

it's kind of like a meta AI discussion
because we're using Riverside to record.

I use Riverside to edit this show.

I worked for Riverside for over three
years.

If you if you didn't know, if you're new.

And Riverside had a big announcement ~
yesterday.

They announced Riverside two point and
they're announcing a bunch of features.

I think some of these features are really
great.

simple things like being able to post

reels and schedule them directly in
Riverside.

So you can use Riverside to make shorts
from your podcast or long recording

and then schedule them to post on social
media all directly in Riverside,

basically taking the place of whatever
else you might use,

like buffer or something. That's a very
welcome feature.

They're also adding a newsletter feature.

And so if you want to be able to send a
newsletter based on your content,

it will do that. And s ~ Riverside CEO
Nadav

in this ex post with the video
announcement said AI videos are all slop.

AI should be making you a content machine.

And the argument here is we're not
generating content from nothing.

We're taking your recording, your content,

and then making it into lots of different
pieces of content.

Like an everything from a newsletter to a
podcast to short clips

to social media posts to everything.

And they also even announced an MCP
server,

which

I need to play with. I'm very curious what
I can ask Claude to do

in my Riverside account. Like,

can I just say, hey, can you make a clip
from that moment we talked about

the World Cup because it was the first
time we ever talked about sports

on this podcast? Will it be able to do
something like that?

And just give me a reel with captions and
and pop it out.

So I'm hopefully getting access very soon
and we'll be able to test that.

But in the announcement video,

it they would say the word agents a lot.

AI agents, it's gonna do all the things of
to your content.

Now I'm a little biased.

I still have a soft spot for Riverside
because I really love the people there.

~ but Jason does not have a soft spot for
anybody.

So ~

What

I don't even know where to go after that.

That's

not true. I just play that. That's just
the character I play on television,

or I'm just kidding. No, I mean,

~ okay, very good, very good.

okay. My main problem,

just to be clear, isn't with a lot of the
features.

Yes.

Okay. Because everything you just
described sounds fantastic.

And Riverside for a you know beginning to
end tool

Right, yeah, yeah.

for podcasting is great. And it makes
sense that if you're ca

if you're literally creating

making the content, create recording the
content in Riverside to have

the tools to do other stuff with the
discord.

Whenever I use Riverside for the for other
podcasts that are not this one,

I'm just using it as an audio recorder at
a distance.

Right. And so I'm downloading the WAV
files and I'm editing them using Ferrite,

like on an iPad. It's great. But if that's
not you but I know but

I actually support two people who use
Riverside

for doing what we're Steven and I are
doing and they edit their own shows.

in Riverside and it's fantastic.

And they export their clips and they do
all that.

And like when I did the interview with
that catmo,

like I just said, make me a give me a
reel.

And I did. And it just did it.

So it's great. My main problem is like the
email they sent out,

Yeah, just did it. Yeah.

which is like, we're unveiling the biggest
launch in Riverside's history.

It's a leap forward in how you create,

polish, and publish your content.

The problem is I feel like there's such a
race to get like

the the the headline is Riverside two
point a breakthrough

in agentic content creation.

I Steven and I are not agents.

We just want to make content. Like we're
making a podcast.

Now I can say that because Steven does
most of the work afterwards.

Well, by most of it, I mean all of it.

Okay. I I just realized I'm like,

Thanks.

no, I there's nothing there. I I send him
a link and I help I proofread

You prove you proofread the title and
description.

the title and description and that's about
it.

And sometimes make suggestions on it.

That's right, that's right.

But usually that just means I send a
thumbs up emoji.

So it's fine. It's a lot of work.

That's it, that's true. ~

But I just think about like

It it does sort of feel to me like the
Dropbox thing.

It's like Dropbox used to be great and it
just did one little thing.

And it was perfect for that one little
thing.

And if I needed to do something different,

I got Google Docs. And if I needed to do
something different,

Yeah.

I got whatever. I don't like right now you
can send faxes from Dropbox.

Did you know that they bought like they
bought like EFAX or one

What?

of those companies and you can just send
drop faxes.

Drop up Dropbox fax is a thing,

I promise you. It's like it's just crazy
to me.

And so

I you think about those types of things
it's like maybe you lost sight

of the thing that made people like really
like your company in

the first place because you did a sim
simple th not a simple thing,

but you did a thing very, very well.

And all of the things that Riverside
added,

they go along with the thing that everyone
wants them to do,

but it just makes me a little bit anxious
because I'm like,

this tool fits so well into this workflow
that when you start to expand it.

Did you make that thing more complicated?

Because now every time you log into your
email provider,

it asks you, ask me a question about your
email.

I'm like, I don't want to. I just want to
click on the emails and delete them all.

Like it's so I don't know, that's my
feeling.

Right.

It's like I just get nervous when it's
like a breakthrough

in agentic content creation.

So number one, fax.dropbox.com is in fact
a thing.

I feel like when I was early on in
marriage,

I'm telling you.

it was like two thousand and eight or
nine,

I had to fax something somewhere and I had
to find a weird app to like

try and send it and it never actually
worked.

But anyway, that's a thing. Number two,

it does feel like I don't think it just
feels like it is agentic and agents

is the buzzword.

And I imagine companies feel a lot of
pressure to just use that as like,

hey, we're doing this too. And you know,

having great audio and video recording is
like the heart of what Riverside does,

but it's not sexy anymore to just say that
because they do that.

And and it's one of those like

if a company always has to be growing,

you have to be thinking like what is the
new thing that they're doing?

And so it it is the agent thing.

So I I do think there's a bit of buzzwords
there.

To play like cr listen,

Riverside has not paid me any money since
last October when I ~ you know left.

And they've never sponsored us.

They never sponsored us, never sponsored
any video.

It's a tragedy, but they've never
sponsored us.

It's tragedy. Here's the thing.

Number one, I it is still the best.

Th they were there was some issue a couple
months ago when I was trying

to record a Mac Power Users episode and

And we had to it was when we were
recording with Brett Terpstra.

And so I had to quickly spin up like a D
script account because I was like,

Well, we have to figure out how to record
the show.

And so that's the only other tool I know
that would be pretty good.

I know StreamYard's out there too,

but we did it in D script and it was man,

it's bad. Editing it is rough,

like it's not a good experience.

And so it's like, okay, clear like
Riverside is still the best tool for

all for just the recording, editing the
video,

getting it out there. And so they they've
done that.

They've accomplished that. And these new
features are great.

But it does feel like when there's
sometimes oversight of when they were
launching

the new editor recently, there were weird
bugs.

And I think they gave me early access.

So I had access before the public did and
it was,

you know, still in the development stage.

But little things like if I try to overlay
a video for the intro of this podcast

and I tried to mute it, it didn't mute it.

Like it didn't do anything. And I didn't
notice until on export,

and then I had to do the whole thing over
again.

Little things like that versus

like the boring tools to make audio
editing better.

Like give me the option to add a
compressor or expander in the editor
because

I we still get comments about the audio of
this show in Apple Podcasts.

And the very complicated situation is I
have to use the video edit

for Apple Podcasts. So even if you only
listen there,

you're hearing the audio from the video
edit,

which is different from the audio edit
that I do by handcrafted bespoke ferret.

Bespoke

Yes, exactly.

The bespoke edit. And if you want the best
audio experience,

support the show because all the member
feeds are the audio versions.

And I and I edit the show twice.

I edit the show fully twice so that we can
have a better audio experience

for those who really want that when you
support the show.

$2.50 a month, $25 a year. There's a link
in the show notes.

But anyway, like those are the tools that
would not be super sexy,

you know, for for Riverside to say
Riverside 2.0,

we added a compressor to the editor.

That's not super fun. I those of us who
are like in the world would be like,

hooray! Like, I would use that more than
the newsletter generator because

we just don't do that really. You can get
a newsletter for this podcast,

I'm yeah, we do get a newsletter from this
podcast,

but it's just the RSS feed show notes.

but yeah. Yeah.

So if you just want the links in your
email,

you can do that. I don't need another
service for it.

On the other other hand, on the third
hand,

on the third hand.

Hang on, I'll saw one of my hands now,

So what are your what are Jason's hands?

apparently.

Like it does

We just talked about subscription fatigue
and all the AI companies wanting twenty

dollars a month. And if you are a creator
and you're trying to do all

the things and you're being told to do all
the things by all

the creator or strategists who say,

Yeah, you need a podcast for developing a
relationship with the audience.

You need a newsletter, because that's
direct access to your audience.

But you also need to be doing clips on
social media because that's

how you get discovered. And your podcast
needs to be on YouTube.

Like that is overwhelming. And a couple of
years ago,

You had to have maybe paid Riverside for
the recording,

paid Opus Clip for the clips, paid Beehive
for the newsletter,

paid this thing for the podcast hosting.

And to Riverside's credit, they are trying
to do everything under one roof.

And so with this new update, you can host
your podcast on Riverside,

have your newsletter there, make social
media clips and schedule them,

and do all the things in one place.

And so while the it is wrapped in some
buzzwords like

agents and agentic and saying that twenty
times in a video or a newsletter.

I also A understand why they're doing it
and

two think there is some op like positive
aspects to it,

especially for smaller creators trying to
figure it out and really struggle juggling

like eighteen different services.

It's like, well, you could all do it in
this one and it's pretty good.

And it's a great record it's one of the
best recording ~ platforms as well.

So it's a but it's buzzwordy, but I get
it.

Yeah, and I just I feel like I I was
trying to think of examples of

of apps and services that have just held
the line for a long period

of time and continue to just do
essentially one thing.

I really can't think of anything.

That's the thing. That's the thing.

But it's it the but the problem is so like
f for example,

I'm I'm forced against my will to use
Slack,

and that's fine. I only use Slack for the
thing that you use Slack for,

right?

Yeah,

right.

I don't

use it for workspace or all these other
like weird canvas things you can do with
it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I just don't I don't use it for calls.

We could be recording this in Slack right
now,

Steven. Why are we not doing that?

Right. Just to be clear, I don't think
Steven and I have ever slacked each other

Sure.

because we're not in any of the same
Slacks.

Like it's fine. We don't have a Slack.

Yeah, no, yeah, we've never slacked.

Yeah, that's true. Yeah.

We just use iMass. It's just totally fine.

But I I you know, I don't want to use
Slack for document creation or

any of the other things you can use Slack
for.

So I just use it for the one thing.

And I use other things for the other
things because they're better at that.

And

The where it becomes a problem is when a
company b Evernote is a great example.

It used to be so good at one thing.

And then they tried to do a bunch of other
things and they got worse

at that one thing because the other things
they seemed thought would justify raising

prices or whatever it might be.

And I feel like that is always the risk
with these companies.

And I'm not saying Riverside will
necessarily do that,

but it's like Riverside's social scheduler
will probably be more convenient

and it will be one less subscription.

But it probably won't be better than
Buffer or Metro Cool or whatever.

Right? And so there's there is a like,

I don't want you to get so good.

Yeah, I don't want you to pursue that.

Cause there have been a number of times
lately,

Steven, where I log into Riverside and
everything has suddenly changed.

Hmm. Yeah. Yeah,

And I just don't like that. Like,

it does it ch it changed.

just make it be the same for us.

And I think, you know, t the whatever you
call it,

like the drop boxification of a service
where it just keeps adding feature creep,

Yeah, and feature creep. Yeah.

it does feel like a company has to go one
of two ways.

Feature creep, where it tries to be the
everything app like

the other everything apps, or which I
think is harder to do,

to do one thing so well that people will
pay an additional monthly price because

you do it the best.

And I'm gonna say this because I I'm very
thankful for my sort shortcut membership

supporters because it allows me to say no
to a lot of brand deals and then also

not care what I say on a podcast.

And you know, it's kind of like the Neil
Patel Verge thing,

like make me ungovernable. The shortcuts
membership does that.

And so thank you for you cannot tell us
what to do.

You can't tell us what you cannot tell us
what to say.

And so when I say what I'm about to say,

keep that in mind. Like not being paid to
say it,

wouldn't care about a brand deal.

And thank you to everyone supporting the
shortcuts community because it's

a huge deal. Transistor is what w I host
this podcast on and what I host

all my podcasts on. Movies on the side,

this show, top five tech. It's all on
Transistor.fm.

And I could use Riverside to host those
podcasts.

I do not want to, because Transistor is so
good at being a host

and has ~ all the features, everything I
want,

does it so well.

Support is so good. I've now created some
wild shortcuts using

the transistor API that I can now upload
episode artwork and all

the show info through a shortcut.

And it makes distributing this show easier
because I can send the title description,

the YouTube URL, and the episode artwork
to the main feed,

the unedited feed, and the member feed all
through one shortcut.

And it's like, this is changing my game.

And it's so clear that they have brought
so much value for this one thing,

it's worth it. I would I don't whether
they choose to do it or not,

I don't think they will. But if Transistor
ever launched like a way

to record video and podcasts, I would
start getting a little concerned.

Because you you inevitably you have
limited finite s resources as a company.

And if you try to do if you're doing A
super well,

but you're like, I think we gotta do some
of B to remain competitive.

Something in A is gonna get sacrificed.

Well, and it is not to b this is a great
that's a great example.

It is not to be competitive. It is to
grow.

Because what you're essentially saying is
what if we were able to sell

all of the people who are paying us now an
additional thing instead

of finding new people? It's so much harder
to find new people to pay

you for the thing you're good at.

It's way easier to raise prices five
dollars a month and introduce

a bunch of features that the people who
are already paying you don't care about,

right? And so that is actually a perfect
example.

We do not want

That but inside the company it's like,

well, how are we gonna continue to grow?

We see that line starting to do this.

So it's what if we expand into a new
feature that we could then charge people
for?

And you're right, that is a problem.

And it occurred to me that all the apps
that I can think of,

that like Ulysses, things, I'm looking at
my doc right now.

Like these are all apps that just do
basically one thing,

Yeah, yeah.

but also none of them are like SaaS
internet services.

Right? Like Ulysses, they didn't they
didn't expand into other stuff.

Yes.

They're just still my favorite writing app
and they're always going to be.

But if Ulysses automatically s suddenly
added a window that said tell

me what you want to write about today,

I would jettison that thing like so fast.

Ha

Like a tick off of my leg. I would just be
like Yes.

Burn it off.

Just do it. And that's so we did a a bonus
episode for Mac Power Users

and it was with Chris Bailey and ~ from
the Focus Podcast.

Forgive me, I forget I forgot his name
just right in the mode.

But anyway, we did a what's that?

Mike was it Mike? Mm okay.

Yeah, Mike, Mike, yeah. We did a
productivity app draft where we we have

to choose one app for like notes,

one app for ~ task, one app for calendar,

and then once one picks it the other
people can't pick it.

And as we were recording that episode,

it was like, this is something unique
about the Apple ecosystem and apps,

is that there are so many niches where an
app can do one thing super well

and it's worth it. And it's not even so
much that I will pay for it every month,

but I have an affinity for it.

And that affinity is an intangible value.

Like I have an affinity for transistor.

I know Justin personally, we're friends,

so there's that part.

Yes, like I get to text these guys and so
there's all that.

But I also just love the platform.

Like I tried every other host and I have
an affinity for it.

And as we were doing this draft for apps,

when we got to Notes app, I knew no one
would take it because all these guys just

use like markdown files and obsidian.

But when we got to notes, I was like,

bear, bear notes. It is such a single
purpose like Ulyss Ulysses for you.

Bear notes for me is just it's it does
what I want.

It works how my brain works.

There's nothing else. And like I pay for
it every year because I love it.

And I have an affinity for it.

And that that feeling is what is so hard
to develop as a brand,

as a company, to have your users and
customers have that affinity

for your brand that, you know,

you do feature creep because you can get
the new users and attract someone that
way.

I mean, this is why we have a podcast that
is largely about Apple and I

do a YouTube channel about Apple stuff.

Yeah.

Because there is an affinity for the brand
that has grown for decades for people.

And so there's great f Riverside launched
great features here.

And kudos to them. You know, I sent them
an email this morning and I was like,

Hey, can I get that MCP service?

I wanna try it. You know? I just wanna try
it.

And and they're gonna give me access.

But for a for any company out there,

like balance the feature creep versus
doing something so well that if

you do nothing else, people will still pay
you for it.

That's kind of what I

would aim for.

And it's it it there is just this it's
just hard because you know,

in some ways it's not really fair to
compare an app like Ulysses or Bear

or ~ you things, all of which are like
they're very successful.

Yeah, I get it.

Very successful, overcast, like a very
successful in Marco's always trying

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

to add ~ new features, but he's never
gonna be like,

What if you could record your podcast and
listen to it in overcast?

Right. Right right.

Now, I'm not saying he might not someday
be like,

What if I make a new app? That's totally
different.

That's fine. But like

It there's the you do get to a point
though where if you're just a small indie

app and even if you're a very successful
one,

you you don't you don't owe anyone else
anything.

But as soon as you do, I have investors,

I have outside people stakeholders.

Now I have to continue that progression
and that's just it just makes it very
hard.

So

It makes it hard. So we'll see.

We we're this is recording with Riverside
right now.

We'll just say that. I'll say.

Hey, I like Riverside. I pay for
Riverside.

I've never worked

there. I've never been sponsored by them.

Yeah.

That's it.

There you go. That's it. All right,

we should may lightning round.

Yeah, let's just do a lightning round
because there's a bunch of stuff.

All right.

~ we talked about Sonnet five coming out.

Well, OpenAI also had some models they
announced,

but then they have to release very slowly
because of something something

US government and security. So GPT five
point six,

Sol Terra and Luna coming out soonish.

It is amazing to me, I just wanna say it
is amazing to me that

the most effective marketing is we made a
thing that could kill civilization,

so we have to be careful.

That's we should say we sh listen.

That is where we are.

We made a literal medieval knight riding a
polar bear,

but not really. But maybe if we say W
what?

Sorry. Yeah.

What was that?

Well, we're supposed to talk about
something in one of our sections that

we didn't talk about last week and we can
talk about it because I I don't know

why this made me think of it, but we gotta
talk about Toy Story Five.

So we'll we gotta add that to something.

So anyway, sorry, moving on. I just you I
don't know why I my here's what happened.

Yes, we do.

My brain was like, What if the media
medieval night on the polar bear came
alive?

What would happen? Okay, and then it made
me think of Toy Story,

That's what I was thinking. That's what I
was thinking.

That's it. ~ yes.

which I saw last night, and then I
remembered we were supposed talk about it.

Okay, sorry. Moving on. We have to do a
little bit of organization real quick,

I will listen. No,

listeners.

that's so good.

That that'll be principal tech,

because then we have to talk about Toy
Story.

All right, so that's the GPT five.

Okay, great.

Also open AI announced, kind of teased
hardware.

It's a keyboard. It's a keyboard that does
codex stuff.

So

Technically every keyboard does codec
stuff.

I mean

Tech

Tech technically. You can use any keyboard
you want with codecs.

I actually thought the point

of codex was that it wasn't happening on
my computer.

It was happening someone else was doing
it.

Something like that. I don't know.

So they they teased that. ~ WhatsApp now
that you reserve a username,

did you reserve your WhatsApp username?

So I try, but it's like not available.

If this is your Instagram name,

go in and connect your Instagram to your
Facebook meta business

not account make meta accounts and I'm
like and I stopped.

So I'm gonna do it at some point.

I I reserved a name, but ~ I don't know,

you probably shouldn't make it public,

right? Because then people could just text
you with that name,

I guess. That's what Well you know.

~ so you're s that's the goal?

You're supposed to like make it different?

There's gotta be a privacy

feature where you can be like only allow
people who are in my contacts.

There is. It says only allow people to
message you with your username and a
token.

If you have a token, I guess. Or some some
code.

Now I gotta walk around carrying tokens
and give them to people.

S something like that.

I don't know. ~ the Supreme Court ruled
that the president can now just fire

~ FTC commissioners at will. So that's
cool.

~ not really. That was sarcastic.

But yeah. There's that. It's tough out
there.

Yeah, it's tough. I mean, yeah.

There's that. I thought it was apropos.

Well, and be

before people send us messages or comment,

I I just want I'm not going to say any
more about what I think about

it other than to say this is the perfect
example of one of those super complicated

things. There's a lot of nuance to it
because the two sides of the argument

is this is an independent regulator,

so that the so the White House,

the administration, whoever should not
interfere with it at all.

And the other side of the argument is
said,

but there's we don't have a fourth branch
of government in this country.

So like how do you reconcile those two
things?

And that's what the Supreme Court was
trying to do.

And it's really just very complicated and
I'm thankful that I d I I don't work

for the government or any organ they can't
regulate us,

Steven. They cannot tell us what to say.

Can't regulate us.

Can't tell us what to say. ~ Ramageddon,

a company is trying to South Korea tech
giants are trying to ease the Ramageddon,

maybe building new fabs, which again will
take years.

I don't know. I'm I'm hoping this doesn't
last for years,

but I don't know. I've I listened to the
ATP guys talk about this and they're like,

it's probably gonna get worse before it
gets better because a lot of this stuff

has been, you know, backlogged,

you know, products that were already
produced and now we're hitting

it because of the

production has been gone on months ago.

So I don't I don't know, man. Is this are
we in for years of this?

~ boy.

Okay, there's three scenarios.

One scenario

is the bubble bursts sooner rather than
later,

in which case that's gonna be bad.

In a lot of ways it would be bad if the
bubble burst,

because there's so much economic activity
and that's just focused in this one area.

But there would be good there'd be good
outcomes.

Right. The second one is that the bubble
continues to grow.

It doesn't burst, but we're able to make
up the capacity at some point

and there's an equilibrium.

And then I don't know that prices come
like way back down necessarily.

The only way the prices come way back down
is if the bubble bursts.

But then again, we have other problems.

And I don't remember the third scenario,

Yeah.

but there is there's there's another
option of like I don't know that we're

in for years of this because I do think
that it's it is more likely that

capacity will spin up. Spin up's a bad
term because it implies like it happens
fast,

right? But more capacity will come online
over time and or

Right, right, right,

the bubble would like it will just s some
of these companies will collapse

and or consolidate or whatever.

So I 'cause I don't think it's this I
don't think it's sustainable

for this to continue like this.

Yeah. I'm ~ I hope I hope so. Just you
know,

I wanna be able to

The the

the most concerning thing though is like
the outcome that's seems most likely

is people will stop buying iPhones and
computers and whatever else to take

RAM and storage because they just become
too expensive to be worth it at this
point.

That and that would put pressure on so
Apple's not selling as many,

so they're not buying as much.

So that lowers the demand requirements on
these things.

Except you have companies like Micron,

which is like they just killed crucial.

Which was their consumer focused thing
because it was just so much more
profitable

to sell all this all the SSD storage and
RAM into the AI companies.

And so right now you just ha because you
have the hype cycle on the

one end where they just keep feeding money
into these companies and then they just

take all that money and give it to NVIDIA,

basically. Right? Like no one cares if we
stop buying iPhones,

Yeah.

it seems like.

Yeah, but I mean Apple will care for sure.

I mean

Right, but what I'm saying is is that
enough pressure if there are

Right, right.

if there's lower demand of iPhones,

is that right now proportionally enough
press pressure?

'Cause Apple couldn't get the favorable
pricing that it needed with

all of that volume. So is that enough
pressure that prices would start

Right. Right.

to come down and find an equilibri like a
balancing point?

Yeah. We'll see. We'll see. one on the
Supreme Court thing,

this was a Supreme Court case,

and the Supreme Court ruled that law
enforcement using a geofence warrant

was search and enabled by the Fourth
Amendment.

And so the story is there was a robbery,

I believe. It was convicted of a bank
robbery in twenty nineteen

and authorities asked Google to pull

Location of people's devices to see if
they were in the area of the robbery

at the time of the robbery. And Google
provided that information.

So this shows that the location history
that's on by default on

all Android phones was able to be used in
a case to say who was near this event

at this time, which raises a bunch of
privacy concerns there.

And the Supreme Court was like,

Yeah, that's legit to be able to use that.

So yeah.

Well,

basically what they were saying,

because in the past what would happen is
they would just ask these companies,

can you give us of this data? And those
companies would do that.

Now what they're saying is you have to
have a search warrant.

And the standard of a search warrant is d
is higher than what they were using

before. So in a search warrant,

you they have to go to a judge and say,

Right.

I believe for a search warrant you have to
have probable cause that a crime

has been committed, right? And and that
you're trying to that you believe

Yes.

it has to be narrowly focused on we
believe this person was in this area.

So we need this data to either c to
collect that evidence as opposed

to just could you just show us all the
people who are in this area?

Which is a very different thing.

And this is good for privacy. Like this is
we can you it will make

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

it harder for them to solve crimes.

That's not a great thing. But the trade
off is it is it is better

for the privacy of of everybody.

That's it, yeah. And you know,

Apple has the frequent locations feature
as well.

I don't think it's ever been like
subpoenaed and used in a court case or
whatever,

but if you wanted to see the div I think
it's if you either download your iCloud

data or do something. Like you could see
all the little pins of like your frequent

locations that Apple has has marked and
like it's there.

I mean that's why it knows when you get in
your car it'll tell you how far

it is to work. You know what I mean?

Sure, sure.

Like it's it's it's using those kinds of
features.

~ all right and lastly, before we get to
Toy Story Five.

Apple is gonna get a take two of its case
against Epic Games.

And so I think it was twenty twenty two.

It was ruled that Apple had to allow for
linking in apps to purchases outside

the app store. They allowed the links but
put a commission,

a fee on even though transactions that
were done when someone went

to an outside website link from an app.

And if you remember Judge Yvonne Gonzalez
Rogers was like,

You're in contempt because you did not
follow the law as I intended.

And so Apple has had to make some
concessions,

but they're gonna get a chance to go to
the United States Supreme Court

and hear their case about the linking and
anti steering rules.

So we will see if Apple and Epic if it
goes backwards,

will Apple get what it wants and be able
to charge even for the linking

out of apps or not. We will see.

Well, and basically what happened is that
Apple

is appealing the contempt finding.

Right, right.

Right. And that contempt finding,

y you know, if in the past it was like
something,

something, something, you have to go back
and you have to find out like what

the right commission amount should be.

Because we don't think it should be zero,

Right.

but it should shouldn't be thirty.

And Apple was like, It should it should be
twenty seven if we're gonna link

Right.

out in the three per like and they're
like,

You didn't actually do the work,

you're in contempt. So but essentially
it's like they

Right.

believe that the judge said it was zero?

Like that they or that I can't remember
exactly what was happening.

So the Apple

ended up charging twelve to twenty seven
percent for those link outs instead

of fifteen to thirty percent. So yeah.

~ yeah, so

okay, right. And so but I believe that the
the judge's order f said that they

For the contempt. Right, right.

couldn't charge anything. And that's what
they were appealing.

They're like, Yeah, no, no, no.

That's we you told us we had to go and do
our homework.

We didn't really do our homework,

Right.

but this isn't the other outcome.

Like if we had done our homework,

we wouldn't have found that the answer is
zero,

right? You're probably right, it wouldn't
have been twelve and th twenty seven,

Right.

it probably would have been something
else.

And they're basically appealing that.

Because they don't think that the that
this should be in contempt

and so they're getting like a seventeenth
bite at the apple or something,

I guess. No pun int no pun intended.

Siv a bite at the F. Wow.

Wow. So anyway, yeah. So we'll see about
that.

All we'll talk about Toy Story Five.

'Cause you saw did you see with your whole
family,

Joels? You ever go see?

Yeah, actually,

so we went with a group that had rented
out an entire theater.

Yeah. It was actually strange to be in a
movie theater with like

that's pretty sweet. That's cool.

a hundred and twenty people that you know.

It's a very interesting experience.

we've done that once. We did that with
like a yeah,

it is it is interesting. It's it's fun ish
and then you're like,

~ this is how these people are in movies?

It was fun. It

was probably people are a little bit more
freewilling and willing to like hoot

and holler or something like that.

That, yeah.

But also it was great because the theater
that we went to has like serve yourself

popcorn and pot and sodas. So like the the
ticket came with a bucket of

~

pop a bucket and a cup and you like fill
it with whatever you want.

Yeah. That's nice.

My kids are like they have their cup for
their their drink and they have

a bucket for the popcorn. They're like,

What if we fill the bucket with the slushy
and we fill the the yeah.

Soda? ~ my wow.

Anyway.

Bring your own five gallon bucket.

Yeah.

So I I love Toy Story Five.

You know, with ~ Toy Stories like how many
do they need to do?

Should they should they have topped at
three?

You know, I think a lot of people thought
four was okay,

but three was like maybe just ended the
trilogy.

I find after seeing five, I'm very glad
they did it.

It's the first time it feels like Toy
Story was

Not only being Toy Story and Pixar and
having a wonderful story,

but like really pressing on like a
cultural topic that I don't think

Toy Story had done before. And I think it
was both timely and well done

and a really great conversation starter
for kids and for parents and

all that kind of stuff. But what were your
general impressions?

I this actually felt like it was

a toy story written by ~

the Inside Out team.

Sure, yes. Yes. Pete Doctor was the
executive producer,

and yeah, and Andrew Stanton, I think,

by the way, who's also in Andrew Stanley
was the director and writer,

was the director. And so, yep.

I believe.

And so but I thought it was good.

I had a hard time, not because of all of
the buckets of popcorn around me,

but because there's a couple of moments in
this that in order to this felt like

it was actually like a three hour movie
that they had to like because

of the amount of stuff they wanted to fit
into.

So like the moment where she's are we
allowed to just do spoilers?

Sure. We're gonna do spoilers

This isn't a movie podcast.

if you haven't seen it, so yeah.

Okay. The

moment where she's well, this this spoiler
will make no sense to anyone,

any of you haven't seen it, but she's
under the tree and she finds

the lunchbox and she makes all the
connections.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm like, that was just too easy.

All of that connection point happened way
too you're you're struggling because

Yeah.

you feel like you have no meeting because
you've been discarded,

and then suddenly you realize that your
favorite kid named her daughter after you.

Like that was just too convenient.

I also cried at that point.

That was just way too convenient though.

And we and then it made it seem like we
should have gotten the payoff if

Sure.

we get to actually see that person again.

And we didn't. Emily, I think it was her
name,

I was hoping yeah, I was kinda hoping we
would see that person like yeah,

yeah.

like on a riding on a horse and you just
kinda like comes through

the sunset or whatever.

I don't even know how.

She's just like standing at the stop sign
or when the little kids

Yeah.

run across the street. Did you notice by
the way when the two little kids

run across the street at the end they they
stop and look both ways?

Did you notice that? They stop and they
pause and then they run.

~ no, I didn't notice that part,

no. I was just

happy they crossed the street because
earlier in the movie they made fun of her
and

W sure,

but they came across the street and they I
think they stopped and looked.

I'm like, those are well trained children,

that's nice. Anyway, I I think that there
is there was so many things that

Those are yeah, they're damn well.

it touched on. It touched on the culture
of eliminating friction online

and what people will do in group chats
that they would never do in person.

Right.

~ yeah, my twelve year old did not want to
go to see this movie and

Yes.

now I understand why. Because he didn't
want us to have I don't think he

Really?

won I think he knew what it was about.

And he's like, I don't want you to see
this,

~

parents.

so you know, the whole premise of the
movie is Lillipad,

which is like an iPad style device,

is given to what's the girl's name?

I forget I forget her.

~ there's

Blaze and Bonnie.

Bonnie. So it's given to Bonnie,

who, you know, got all of Andy's toys.

I think it was at the end of Toy Story
Three.

And so she gets a a tablet and turns all
her attention to the tablet

and ignores the toys. And at the beginning
of the movie there's multiple scenes

where the toys like, The age of toys is
over.

Like it's the age of devices now.

Well, and she's like the last kid on earth
who plays with toys,

except for the one other kid.

That's the thing. Last exactly.

And so there's the struggle of the tablet
versus the actual toys

and imaginative play. And it's you know,

you could say that that is on the nose,

but I think the movie hits a couple ideas
that are poignant.

One, when the movie ends, the device
doesn't disappear or get thrown in the
trash.

There is a recognition of like,

nope, devices are here, and they do have
their uses.

In the movie, it's like, let's take a
selfie with the device.

And

Bonnie and Blaze get connected via the
device.

Like it is the chat feature there that
actually helps them find a real friend.

Well, I mean their agents find a real
friend for them.

Their cowork agent.

Well, they're co-working agents the

~ anthropomorphized toys. But I think that
we did a good job of of saying,

like, we're not throwing the tablet in the
trash at the end of this movie.

We're showing and the the tablet wanted to
do that.

The tablet was like, I'm going to run away
and and be done with myself because I've

made a horrible mess of things.

But I think they do a good job of being
like,

No, devices are here. They're going to
have a use and they can be useful,

but we also need to be careful because
there's could be group chats where

a girl gets made fun of and harassed.

And that was also in the movie.

So I I thought the movie did a good job of
of showing the challenges

of these devices and showing that they
still have a place.

It's not that we're going to get rid of
them entirely.

And also how just how difficult it is for
younger people

to make friends in today's world,

I appreciated them that putting that on
the big screen.

Because if you are a kid who's nine,

ten, eleven years old

And you don't have a device, or you have
very limited time on

the device because your family has imposed
that,

or because your country has has a social
ban.

Like, whatever the reason, the difficulty
in connecting with other kids your

age who do have and are on devices is very
difficult,

albeit untenable. Like she goes,

Bonnie goes for the sleepover,

and she's the only one that doesn't have a
device.

And in that context,

Right or wrong, it becomes impossible to
connect with these other girls.

And so I appreciate that they put the
challenge on the screen to help empathize,

I think, with kids who might be feeling
that.

And then also for parents to understand it
is it is difficult for a

Yeah.

kid to connect with other kids in today's
world if they're not

in the technology space. And so I
appreciated that I all those messages

is just saying the quiet part out loud and
I think hopefully validating

the challenges that kids feel and

And validating the challenge that the
adults feel.

And I will say there was a scene early in
the movie where it kind of pans across

the neighborhood at night and you see in
all the windows of the houses

and every person just has a glow on their
face from the device they're on,

both kids and adults. And I think,

you know, that's something to keep in
mind.

I feel like that scene had a little bit of
a wall-y feel to it.

Little bit of a WALLY feel. Which yeah,

you could say that Pixar's been doing this
since the WALLE days.

Yeah, yes.

Like that was exactly that. ~ it was that
was,

I guess, ahead of its time.

Toy Story five is Wally Meets Inside Out.

It's like

That's right, that's right.

Yeah, and it was it was doing a lot the
movie.

I did love Conan O'Brien as the voice of
of the the device thing.

He was pretty funny. But anyway,

I identified a with it a lot because I
know my kids have that struggle.

Like they have devices, but there are also
friends that use devices more than them,

and vice versa. They might use devices
more than some of their other friends.

And that is an added challenge to
friendship in today's culture for kids.

that I don't think existed like in the
nineties when we were kids.

Like how much you use your telephone at
home I don't think was a barrier

to making friends. And I don't know if
there was a similar barrier back then.

I do want to say for our listeners,

I I did really like the movie.

I really did and I like the message.

Yeah.

I sometimes get a little hung up on the
idea that like the toilet paper

toy can send emails. Like and that it and
that it got a really good signal because

That was a d that was the biggest plot
hole.

of all the buzz light years were
self-contained hotspots.

I'm like, hang on, wait a second.

Yeah. That no one's paying that
subscription for the hotspots,

You're trying especially well and yeah,

so

literally no one is paying those
subscriptions right now because these toys
just

fell off of a boat.

We're or out of an airplane, literally.

That well yeah, that too. Yeah.

Exactly, exactly.

And so I was like, hang on, this is just a
little bit too convenient

for some of this. But I anyway,

I'm it's I thought it was very good.

I d there actually was a lot of agent tech
stuff happening.

It's like I gotta play this game for her
so she can be get enough points

That is true.

to do the thing. It's like so there was a
lot of layers of stuff that's going on.

I do think I only th really my only piece
is I felt like I had such a

So much of the message to say that it had
to get to some of the points

Yeah, yeah.

to little too conveniently in order to
continue to make it.

Sure.

Like I do think that that that was my
biggest thing.

It's like you just got disc discarded and
suddenly like within the next scene

you found the thing that made you feel
like you had value.

It's like, okay.

Sure. Yeah.

I could say yeah, it happened kind of fast
too and out of the blue and it

it felt a little like there's a too many
storylines at a couple of points,

Yeah, it's like we need to make this piece
fit in order for

but yeah.

the other parts to fit. So let's do it
this way.

But nobody sat sat back and watched it and
goes,

Well, hang on, that just felt too
convenient.

Yeah. But overall, I mean I appreciated
that it exists and the thing

Yep. Highly recommend.

it said the things it said. Highly
recommend.

And I mean I cried probably twenty times
during this movie.

But yes. What do you mean really?

Really?

I cried zero times.

But have you what have you ever cried in a
movie?

I'm being real.

Father the Bride? Are you kidding me?

Come on. Yes, I've cried at movies.

Shh Okay, okay.

Interstellar No, I don't think I cried
during Interstellar.

I don't think I cried during Interstellar.

I cried during Interstellar. I don't cry,

of course.

When he's good like that scene is so when
he's crying because his daughter

is like thirty something years old now.

you know, maybe

I did actually cry during Interstellar
because it's like the idea of missing

Yeah.

out on all of that. Like, ugh.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. I I'm telling ya.

Actually that's a devastating movie.

It is d it is one of the best,

My boys actually started watching it the
other day and I'm like,

yeah.

Nope, you can't watch it. We're gonna
watch this together.

We will watch it too. But but you can No,

'cause you haven't seen it together yet.

my our boys had never seen it before and
they were looking for something

~ see.

to watch and they turned on an
Interstellar.

I'm like, Stop. Nope. We're you can
definitely watch this,

You gotta watch that together for sure.

but w this is an experience that we are
all going to have together.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm glad you did that a hundred percent

because I've I've forced my kids to watch
it multiple times.

The first time my two younger kids weren't
old enough to really

get everything that was happening and then
we wanted to watch it r again recently,

like a few months ago, and my middle son
was like,

this might be my favorite movie Like I
totally get everything now.

I feel like it

is a it is one of the entries in the canon
of movies that ~ that people should see.

And so it's like you we we're gonna have
to see this one.

Yes.

That's it. ~ last thing I'll say about Toy
Story Five.

I I think this should be the last one they
make.

I don't think this should be a Toy Story
Six.

I'll say that. But when the Buzz Light
Years have the drone propellers

in their backs, it's ridiculous and
hilarious,

Right.

but when they're carrying like old Woody
and Buzz and he sees that like Buzz

actually flies, like the new version of
Buzz.

Can really fly, call back to the very
first Toy Story.

I cried again. I cried again. Cause you
know,

Okay.

it's like, Buzz, you're really flying.

We're flying in style.

That was the other part that was a little
bit too convenient,

is that the little lily pad thing is able
to do an upgrade on all

of them and suddenly they have wings with
drone and propellers.

That it sh yeah, sure. It was still gre it
was it was still great.

It's like Ugh. It was good though.

It was still great.

It was good.

Okay, well it's recorded a bunch of steps,

so I need to ask you your July fourth
plans.

Are you gonna be in England on July
fourth?

That is so

I am going back to the mother country,

apparently, for the fourth of July.

I am the only American.

No, I'm not the only one, but I am an
American going to England for

the Fourth of July, which they do not
celebrate in England.

That's hilarious. Right. I wonder why.

I will tell you my I will tell you my
plan.

Yeah, they prefer to not talk about it.

I'm gonna wear my Hamilton you'll be back
shirt.

Wow You'll be back. Okay.

I mean, that's literally what it's about.

~ so good.

So

I'll send a full battalion to remind you
of my li I just totally butchered that,

You didn't spit enough you didn't spit
enough though.

but you know what I mean? I didn't spit it
out.

It's fine.

It's such a good song. Anyway,

we're gonna go talk about Jason in England
for July fourth.

We probably have listeners there.

I don't know if th if there would be any c
you should do a meetup or something.

That'd be great.

I tried to do a meetup, I'll tell you
about it offline.

I didn't.

Okay, we're gonna go record a bonus
episode.

Okay, I gotta hear about this.

You can hear the bonus episode,

get the best audio experience,

get the chapters, the chapter artwork,

our bonus our unedited feed, which we have
like a thirty minute pre-show today,

and we do every week. You can get primary
tech daily,

you get all the things. Just support the
show.

We appreciate all of you who do that.

You can click the link in the show notes,

two dollars fifty cents a month,

twenty five dollars a year. And if you
haven't,

we'd really appreciate a five star rating
and review an Apple Podcast.

Let us know, I don't know, what agent you
actually like,

or let us know Pixar movie.

Tell us your favorite Pixar movie and if
Toy Story Five changes your ranking

for like the top three. I don't know if it
changes my top three ranking.

It does not change my ranking.

There's not much

It doesn't

even change my ranking of well no.

I was gonna say it's I don't think it's
even my favorite Toy Story movie,

but that's okay. It's good.

Yeah, I don't don't know about that.

Anyway, this has been a this has been a
movie on the side on the side where

I love it. I haven't been back on movies
on the side in years,

we talk about movies. You need to come
back and me,

you and Nate gotta talk about it.

Well, that only means three episodes.

so this is nice. That's true.

So So

I've only missed I haven't even missed a
handful yet.

That's what that is

true. So anyway, you can also listen to
movies on the side.

Jason will be back on one day.

And yeah, we're gonna go record a bonus
episode.

Thanks for listening. Thanks for watching.

We'll catch you next time.