Primary Technology

didn't build it. We don't know who did no
they were gone long before

we ever got here Welcome to primary
technology the show about the tech news
that

matters We're gonna talk about Apple
earnings this week is Apple vision

Pro did the RAM? Pocalypse is affecting
even more Macs like the Mac studio

of course the Mac mini Everyone might get
some money if they have

an Apple intelligence device because of
the lawsuit

We actually have some data center news
causing a kerfuffle.

Claude made a deal with SpaceX,

Mir Moradi is testifying at the OpenAI
Musk trial,

and a ton more. This episode is brought to
you by NordLayer and CleanMyMac,

and of course, all of you, the members who
support us directly,

and one of your hosts, Robles,

joining us once again, developer Jason
Aten.

How's it going, Jason?

grumpy Stephen because people keep calling
me grumpy and it's making

Grumpy, why grumpy?

me very grumpy I don't know but the one
way to make me feel grumpy is

It's like a self-fulfilling prophecy.

to call me grumpy I guess no I'm fine it's
good

Yeah, yeah, no, no, I'm excited because,

well, we won't say the status right now.

I mean, I did get my app reviewed once and
rejected once.

That's right.

Everyone has got to get their app rejected
once.

I was

just waiting for it. would have actually
been disappointed if it just sailed right

through. mean, nothing about it has sailed
through.

It's like every

developer gets their wings when their app
store gets rejected,

right? I mean, at least once.

I feel like that's probably true.

So I don't know. I've heard a lot of
people talk about like the weird
rejections

and it was very like it was good.

I mean the one rejection was useful.

It's like I wouldn't actually want my app
to have shipped with that particular

Yeah, yeah, With that bug, yeah.

problem. So I'm glad so we're getting
closer.

I was really hoping I could be like it's
it's available people.

Getting close. It's out there,

it's out there.

Maybe you'll get the email while we
record,

you never know.

And if I do, do I push it out immediately?

Okay.

Yes, you do. And yes, it be

live on the show. Do you have any idea
where that quote was from?

It's a little bit obscure, but it's from
my favorite movies.

Okay,

so you told me it from a movie.

In my brain, I'm like, well, that was from
silo.

Yes.

That's 100 % felt like silo.

It does, but no. This

So

is from before 2000. This is from a sci-fi
movie before the year 2000.

what was that Amy Adams movie?

No, it's not that one either. This is Jody
Foster.

We don't know who did. They were long.

They were gone long before we ever got
here.

It's contact.

Wait, what was the Amy Adams movie called
that I'm thinking of where there's.

I have no idea. The Hulk?

No. Sorry. That's that's...

What was what sci fi?

Okay, anyway, while you do that,

let me do some 5 star review shoutouts.

We have Game Man 114 from the USA.

Arrival. Sorry. Arrival.

What is it? Oh, Arrival? Yeah,

I know I'm just saying contact

but that was not before 2000. That was
like 2014.

and arrival in my brain are the same
movie.

So that's why I said that.

Oh my god, we can't even go there.

can't even go there.

William would have some words.

William Gallagher, he watches Arrival
every year on Christmas,

I think. He loves that movie. He loves it.

I do. think it's a great movie.

It's a great movie. It's a great movie.

But all right. So I

It's a great movie.

got it wrong. Mark me down for being
wrong.

It was pretty obscure. It's a hard quote.

Matthew McConaughey's in that movie too.

Contact. It's a good one. All right.

Five star review. Shout outs. Thank you
for five stars.

Game Man 114 from the USA. The Chris Chia
from the USA stumbled upon us.

We've been featured a lot in Apple
Podcasts because we added video.

And so just maybe discovered us that way.

Ashton McCants from the USA subscribed,

became a member. Very kind. Bob the Baldi,

fellow Baldi maybe, from the UK.

Not seen a double act of this caliber
since Burt and Ernie.

That's a high bar.

I feel like that's high praise.

Bert and Ernie? Yeah, I think so.

I think so. think it is, but then the

I think so.

emoji makes me wonder, but that's okay.

No, no, no. I think he was just laughing
at his own joke.

But anyway, oh, hey, it's you from the
USA.

All five star views. Thank you for those.

And I want to give a shout out.

We give shout outs to like developers make
apps.

We talked about chess piece last week.

The listener listens to the developer
listens to this show.

And then John Gruber also featured him on
daring fireball dot net for chess piece.

P E A C E. But also, Ivan sent me an email
listens to the show and he made

an app called Brew Card. It's actually a
web app.

Brew card dot app.

great domain grab there. This is something
totally free.

If you make coffee and stuff, you can
design a card that is like your recipe

for a specific kind of coffee and you can
download a PNG of that card if

you want to share it maybe on social media
or you can even share a link to it.

And again, all this is free. You can
download the stuff for free,

share it online for free. And if you make
coffee,

maybe want to share your recipes or you
have a coffee shop and you want

to be able to like post Instagram stories
of your different drinks.

It's just a free website, Brewcard.app.

We'll link it in the show notes.

Pretty cool. I like it. You actually,

you took apart your whole coffee maker
this past week,

right? Because you broke it?

We, yeah, we apparently, you know,

I've, this actually happened one other
time,

but apparently when you buy a bag of,

of beans, there are other objects that
could be in there that are the shape

of a bean, but much more dense,

like, you know, rocks. And then I've,

you

we've, with my, my espresso machine passed
a stone.

Unfortunately, part of its guts did not
survive.

So I took the whole thing apart and then I
was like,

well, this thing is like a thousand
dollars and we use it four times a day.

Yeah.

I think I'm going to just get the
replacement parts and fix it.

So.

That's pretty good. That's pretty good.

And I want us to do one other thing before
we get to Apple earnings

and Apple vision pro. We did get a shout
out from Mr.

Neelai Patel from the Verge cast.

I posted a clip of our Brendan Carr
segment in last week's episode and

he and David Pierce, they were nice enough
to re share it.

And so the B C I A D C U the Brendan Carr
is a dummy cinematic universe

is expanding.

I think it's podcast universe,

but close enough. The the Brendan Carr is
a dummy P.U.

You know, podcast users, that's right.

That's how this should work.

There you go. Perfect. That's perfect.

That's it. All right. So Apple had their
earnings right after last week's episode

published and ~ can I just I'm sorry one
piece of housekeeping because we've

had a lot of people supporting the show,

which we really appreciate and there is
some just a bit of clarity.

Unfortunately, in Apple podcasts,

if you subscribe to the show, there is no
video because Apple podcast does

not have video for subscribers.

So

Don't subscribe for like video without
ads.

I'm sorry. That's not a thing that exists
because Apple doesn't make that possible.

And also remember if you're watching and
you really miss chapters,

there's timestamps in the description in
Apple podcasts that you can tap

and jump to a chapter. If you listen with
any other app like podcast,

overcast, there are chapters like normal
even for the free version.

So I just want to point that out there
because we have people supporting

the show and they're like, hey,

I signed up. Where can I get the video?

I'm sorry. That doesn't exist yet.

And we have people who are

super mad that we're apparently
gatekeeping chapters,

which is just not a thing. No one in the
universe loves chapters more than Stephen.

we're not. Not a thing.

If he could give them to you, he would
just mail them to you with a T-shirt

love them.

I would. ~ you give you ideas now.

and a pin like it's like without question.

I'm giving him ideas that are going to be
really expensive.

We need a shirt with chapters.

that's pretty good.

I'll write it down. Don't I got it.

Hold on. I gotta pause the show.

Hold on. Yeah, write it down. Thank you.

A shirt

with chapters. Can I be honest,

Jason? I've never gotten a tattoo in my
life.

Okay. On your butt you have no tattoos.

But. No, no, no, no, no,

Okay.

no,

but, but I keep seeing the polar bear,

the medieval knight riding the polar bear
and like our unofficial logo.

And I'm like, if I ever were to get a
tattoo,

I feel like this would probably be it.

don't know. Can I ask you personal
question?

Okay. I don't have any tattoos if that's
the question.

Okay. I was just curious. I was just
curious.

And if I

Just curious. I don't know.

ever get a tattoo, it'll probably be,

no, I'm not gonna get a tattoo probably.

We can get

matching medieval knights riding a polar
bear Jason's not gonna get it.

That's not gonna happen. I won't even wear
my Vision Pro on an airplane.

He's not gonna do it. Anyway, let's talk
about Apple And you're gonna

I'm not getting a tattoo of that.

be riding like 18 airplanes in the next
two months Jason Please you

I might take it. We'll see.

say that every time actually take it take
the vision Pro.

There's

I travel

really light to be fair. That's the part
of the reason why.

The Vision Pro is very light, Jason.

It barely weighs anything. That's a lie.

Yes, but it takes up like this much space.

It takes up a lot of space, too.

Anyway.

lot of space. All right, we're going to
talk about the Vision Pro in a second.

But first, Apple earnings came out after
last week.

It was their second record second quarter
earnings for Apple,

$111.2 billion in revenue.

So again, best second quarter ever.

iPhone, still 51 % of Apple's revenue.

You can see I'm going to link.

Six colors article with Jason Snell.

They all have all the pretty graphs
talking about where the revenue and profit
is.

You can see gross margin going up.

You also see services revenue on that
upward trajectory.

Not a hockey stick, but it is going up
every quarter.

And of course the products and services.

And there's one product really setting
apart of these quarters from past years,

which is the iPhone 17 Pro. That's like a
big one.

Yeah, I mean, it's like the most popular
iPhone ever.

And it's, you know, it's I guess it's the
orange.

really is.

mean, I didn't love it. I didn't love the
orange.

Although I do have a water bottle that's
basically the same orange and that's fine.

But ~ yeah, it was a big deal.

interesting.

John Ternes made an appearance his first
time on a earnings call.

Yes?

And he's basically like, hang on,

BRB, just chill, you know, get this up or
whatever.

think that I don't think this will be the
last ~ earnings call because

I'm not official yet.

I think the next call will be.

Tim Cook's last one. And so but yeah,

Still Tim Cook.

everything is going up. That's a good
thing.

There was a couple interesting things.

One, you know, they they basically were I
think the reason Ternus was there

is to give people who care about the stock
like a little bit of assurance like,

here's the guy. Meet the new guy.

He'll be back. He just wants you to get a
feel for him.

See everything is going to be basically
the same.

It's like Tim and Tim extended version.

Tim plus Max, whatever, you know.

Tim Plus

Max.

So we just want you

to know what's coming down the pike and
things aren't going to change

a ton except there are a couple things one
is like It sounds like they're going

to start holding on to cash again There
was a period of time when Apple

Hmm.

had like more cash than all of the world's
governments or something like that

Yes, I'm crazy.

It was ridiculous now that's now that's
Berkshire Hathaway,

which literally has 300 billion dollars of
cash sitting in a pile somewhere

and Warren Buffett's backyard I guess
don't go to Omaha looking for it's

Peace.

not there anyway, but

He they would basically they started
giving all the cash back

to the shareholders doing buybacks and
dividends and stuff.

Right.

And they've said we're going to continue
to do the dividends and buybacks.

But we are going to start holding on to
cash a little bit more in excess

of the amount of our debt, because,

well, really, they're like probably pretty
bummed they couldn't

buy Anthropic when they wanted to,

like because they just didn't have that
much cash sitting around.

Mmm.

Actually, Apple didn't need the cash to
buy in topic.

Let's be honest. There's a lot of ways
they can do this.

But I think that John Turner's probably
wants

the flexibility for that. And then the
other thing that was interesting

is they talked about the tariffs.

And basically, Apple said, if we get money
back for the tariffs,

Yes.

we will spend it, we will add it to our
investment in the US,

which is actually a brilliant way of
saying this,

because they're able to address Wall
Street,

who cares very much about Apple getting
money back right in Apple didn't pass

the cost of tariffs on to consumers,

right? They didn't raise price
specifically because of tariffs,

Right.

it just got harder to get stuff.

And so they don't have to give refunds to
people if that happens.

But they're like, if we get the money
back,

we're just going to add it on to our RD,

which is which is fine, right?

Like they're going to just can make it
just makes them look very good.

So if anybody's wondering what Apple is
going to do if they get a bunch

of money back for tariffs, you're not
they're not sending us checks.

We'll talk about the check they might send
you later.

You might get a check. Yeah, that's right.

But it's not because of tariffs.

Yeah. That's right.

And so so anyway.

That was good. And I wanted to,

I wanted to share this chart. This is from
MG Siegler,

his website, spyglass.org. And it's
showing the capital expenditure of Apple,

Google, Microsoft, Amazon, and Meta.

And capital expenditure is things not
directly related to like products.

So it might be a data center. They might
be investing in R and D like

for Apple that could have been the car
project,

things like that.

And as you can see this chart,

if you're listening, I'll put this as the
chapter art so you could kind of see it.

Every company, once AI started going big
around 2022,

every company ramped up their spending for
capital expenditure except Apple.

And you could just see the bar graphs
going way up for all the other companies.

And Apple actually spent less on capital
expenditure this year than last year.

And it's just Apple's not about that,

which...

You could say, maybe if they had spent a
little more,

Apple Intelligence might be a little
better.

~ But I don't know. You know, I don't know
what amount of money you throw

at a thing makes it better, per se.

But.

I mean, it's that

you got the graph right there.

The amount of money you have to throw at
this thing to make it better

is so far beyond what Apple would be
willing to do.

And Apple can't go from spending 11
billion to what Amazon said 200 billion.

Like you can't like seriously,

Yeah.

you know what that would have done to the
stock if Apple

had automatically done that, even if
they're like,

That's

well, well, we promise it's going to pay
off 12 years into the future or whatever.

Maybe.

No, there's just no way that they could do
that.

And I mean, yeah, I don't know.

I don't know if Apple it's hard to say if
Apple's behind.

or if Apple's really, really smart and
just letting everybody else,

you know, spend all this money.

And if this is a bubble that bursts,

all that money they're going to have that
they didn't spend on those things,

they're going to just start buying them
up.

Like it'll be it's like the perfect play.

That's true. It'd be just a sale.

Just wait for the bubble to burst.

Yeah, it'd just be a flash sale.

And there were rumors this past week that,

you know, in iOS 27, the voice assistant,

you'll be able to choose from ChatGPT,

Claude, or Gemini, that all three of those
extensions might be available,

just built into iOS 27. We know that they
have a deal with Gemini,

that that will be coming. That deal,

it might be that Gemini is like on private
cloud compute or whatever,

and part of the models of Gemini are...

It's not exactly Gemini, it's like an
apple flavored Gemini and apple's gonna

do some sauce to it or whatever.

But they might also put Claude in there
and like honestly,

that'd be pretty sweet. I Xcode already
has ChatGPT or Claude and

you can literally just log in with your
account.

You can have Claude Agent running in Xcode
and it'd be nice to see that in iOS 27.

So we'll see, that was Ruminations.

Don't you think though the

bet the promise though here for like the
approach for Apple in

the best case scenario is that you just
never have to think about it like.

I don't know that they want an AI
assistant with a ton of little fiddly
knobs

and you have to decide who you're
providing like all that kind of stuff.

And as someone who has been thinking very
hard about like how you build this into

an app, like it's it gets very complicated
if you're like,

well, you have to log into your account
for this thing.

And or if you get a different experience,

if you don't have this account or what if
the assistant like they just need Siri

to be good and however they do that is
fine.

And you shouldn't ever have to think about

Yeah, but I think they could also do both,

kind of how they do now, where you can ask
the voice assistant...

Hold on, I hope

they do nothing kind of like they do now
when it comes to this.

Well, no, what I'm

going to say is you can ask the voice
assistant and it will figure

out whether it can handle it, spoiler,

it can't, and give it over to ChatGPT or
just do the thing.

And so maybe once they put Gemini and
whatever servers that powering

the voice assistant, it just can do the
things at the first request.

But then also in the little fiddly Apple
intelligence settings pane where most

people won't go, but those of us who want
it,

you can have like the Claw, ChatGPT and
Gemini.

Sign-ins if you want to have that and then
maybe in shortcuts There'll

be some actions where you can choose
whatever model you want and that could

be the fiddly part and Apple doesn't have
to most people don't have

to know about that They could just watch
my videos on YouTube and I'll explain

it to them. You know what I mean?

Perfect. Perfect.

All right, so vision pro there was this
article that came out again after last

week's show from Mac rumors claiming that
Apple has given up on the vision

pro after the m5 refresh flop

given up are some strong words.

And it was not a super long article,

nor was it directly sourced. It was just
saying that apparently Apple

has stopped working on the Vision Pro and
the Vision Pro team

has been redistributed to other teams
within Apple.

And so the MacRumors article was making it
seem like,

whoa, they just broke up the team and like
it's dead,

like dead on arrival or on whatever.

And so it felt weird. It also felt very
final with not having much sourcing.

And we haven't heard something like this
from Gurman specifically.

But then John Gruber wrote at Daring
Fireball,

like, ~ probably not. Like the Vision Pro
team was already split off into like

the Vision Product Group and another
technology development group.

so saying the Vision Pro team was just
kind of like broken up and put other
places.

It's like, well, they were split up into
similar groups,

still about Vision and maybe AR,

VR type devices. And as far as

John Gruber knows from his contacts that
they are still working on vision devices.

It just might not be the Vision Pro that
we know it today.

And so Gruber was saying they are still
working on immersive style devices where

it would be full on headsets, maybe it's
cheaper headsets,

maybe it's something just very different
from the Vision Pro we see today,

and also maybe like AR glasses and things
like that.

I don't think the Vision Pro is dead as
much as that MacRumors article seemed

to imply. It's just going to be different.

Yeah, this just sort of feels like someone
got reassigned and told someone else

Which makes sense.

about they got reassigned and that person
told someone and they're like,

my gosh, everyone from the team is leaving
and there's no more vision pros.

Like there's a lot of leaps and
assumptions you have to make just from

one piece of information. And even in the
Mac rumors article,

I feel like they may, and I think Rupert
points this out.

It's like they made, it's apparently
stopped work on the vision pro and

the team has been redistributed to other
teams with an Apple apparently stopped
work

like

there's no report that that's actually
happened other than Mike Rockwell

Right.

has been moved to a different team,

like whatever, right? And so I don't know,

I just think that it's also think it
doesn't really matter because

I think we've already reached the point
where the vision pro was not going

to be the next platform of computing.

Like it's fine. Like even if AI had not
come around,

I just don't think this was going to be
the thing.

~ But I think that I think it's probably
entirely true that the people

who were working on headset

might now be working on glasses or
something else.

Right.

But I think we knew that was always going
to be like the vision pro

was always meant to be filling a gap
between your phone and whatever

the long term thing was going to be.

glasses.

Yeah, and I think it's also clear the
Vision Pro is not selling like hotcakes,

as they say. You know, it is not a high
selling device,

but they're not like totally doing away
with any kind of vision device
development,

is basically what saying. So anyway,

Sure.

yeah, that felt a little weird.

don't think Vision Pro is dead yet.

Do you still use it pretty often?

Really? That's pretty good.

all the time. Yeah, I was trying to figure

out how to make a Vision Pro app for my
app.

I'm probably not going to.

Yeah,

I was gonna say. But, I think I might try
to make a Vision Pro app,

we'll see. I think my app would lend
itself to Vision Pro.

We'll talk about it. Anyway, the
RAMpocalypse is coming for all.

And it has now come from MacStudio.

If you were trying to get a MacStudio with
a ton of RAM,

the M3 Ultra now only has the 96GB of RAM
configuration.

You used to be able to get it up to like
the 512GB.

There was the 256, they're all gone.

And now you can only have, there's only
one RAM configuration.

This is the shortage. This is because TSMC
is making all the stuff

for Nvidia and we're gonna talk about data
centers in a little bit,

which sounds boring, but it's actually
gonna be a pretty wild segment.

~ But I mean, this is the RAMpocalypse.

It's coming, and you know, there was also
the news,

I think it came after last week's episode,

but like the base Mac mini is no longer
available.

So like, if you go to apple.com slash Mac,

there used to be a 599 Mac mini option,

and that option no longer exists.

I was curious if they changed actually
this main page on the website.

Yeah, now it says from 799. And that used
to say from 599,

because the lowest RAM you can get is,

or the lowest memory storage, I'm sorry,

Storage, right, it's the storage.

that's what it was. It used to come with
256 gigabytes of SSD storage standard.

Now the base is 512.

~ But on the Mac Studio, let's see,

there was one Mac Studio on like B &H with
like all the RAM and it was like

14 grand and I don't know why but I was
tempted to get it but I did

not get it because that would have been
absolutely insane.

go really good with that video streaming
device you have.

Exactly. So if you get an M3 Ultra,

there is one memory option. That looks
crazy on this site.

This is Apple StorePage. If you go with
the M4 Max,

you only get 64 or 96 gigabytes of RAM.

That's it. That's all you get.

man. Can be honest? I mean, I was not some
kind of like a futurist when

I bought my Mac Studio, but now I'm kind
of glad I got my Mac Studio when I did.

because I got the 128 gigabyte RAM
version.

So I have more RAM than you can buy new
now.

That's crazy.

Do we think that this is gonna continue?

like when they do, well, two questions.

Do we think that there's M5 versions of
these two devices coming soon?

Yes.

That's first question. Second question,

when those devices come, do you think that
there will still be a long delay

to get things? So is this A, we just
aren't gonna continue making M4 things
until

we don't, we only have certain
configurations left,

we're only gonna sell those and it's not
cost effective.

And reducing them or lapping off the
bottom means that

Yeah, because the difference is what $200,

but it does not cost Apple $200 to six,

five, 12 instead of 256. So they're just
increasing their margin on what they have

left. They just want to only sell things
that are going to make them more money.

And actually they're not going to sell it
to you.

They will take your money and then you'll
get an M5 when they'll ship.

Like you're never going to get an M4 Pro
Mac mini at this point.

So do we think they're coming soon?

And do we think that there'll be long
delays once the M5 because

the other M5 devices like the MacBook Pros
seem to be shipping fine.

That is true. So one of the things we
didn't mention about on the earnings call,

Tim Cook did talk about the memory crunch
because he was asked about it.

And I'll put this link to the CNBC
article.

But he said that we'll continue to
evaluate this because this was Tim Cook
saying,

quote, we believe memory costs will drive
an increasing impact on our business.

Seems like going forward, it will have an
impact.

I think

two things. don't... I think if they
launch an M5,

MacStudio, and or Mac Mini, they want to
offer it with as many configurations

as they can. And it seems like right now
in this moment that that's not feasible.

Like I don't think they would have raised
the Mac Mini price unless they had to.

And I understand it's not raising the
price,

it was eliminating the bass configuration,

but...

And there's also a demand part of this,

like everyone is wanting a Mac Mini and or
Mac Studio to run their

AI agents and stuff. So it is kind of this
like dual pressure of there

is the RAMpocalypse and there is people
wanting a bunch of Mac Minis

to run Claude Cowork or whatever and
Claude Code.

I think they are going to figure it out
and then launch.

So while an M5 might be ready now,

I think the RAM thing is going to,

they're going to wait.

Like don't even think at WWDC we're gonna
hear about an M5 MacStudio or Mac Mini.

It'd be nice, because I know a lot of
people like David Sparks of Mac,

oh here's my ghost, he's wanting to buy a
new MacStudio and he's waiting

to see what happens. I think it'll be the
fall.

I think October, November they'll announce
the M5.

It'll be longer than they would've wanted
to,

but hopefully by then there'll be all the
RAM options and people can

get either 512 gigabytes of memory in
their new MacStudio if they want it.

Because I don't think Apple wants to
release an M5 Max and M5 Ultra

Max Studio and then only offer 96 gigs of
RAM.

No, but you can get all the configurations
in a MacBook Pro right now

and you can get 128 gigs in a MacBook Pro
with an M5 Max right now.

And those are available and you can
actually walk into an Apple store

and buy several, I just was checking
several configurations.

All of the base configurations of the M5,

the M5 Pro and the M5 Max are available to
be delivered tomorrow.

So like it is not a shortage across the
line.

right.

It is an M4 specific shortage,

which, it's not even a RAM shortage
because you can get a MacBook

Pro with more memory than you can get on a
Mac Studio.

So I think that this is as much an end of
life M4.

They're phasing all the M4s out.

It is too costly right now to get TSMC to
be fabbing these chips that have

the large amounts of memory on them
because it's hard to get,

so it's more expensive. But I just think
it's also,

like Apple's never gonna say, yeah,

we're actually not gonna ever ship these
devices anymore because we're about

to release new ones. And I know there have
been some rumors that the

new ones might come in.

might not come until the fall,

but I don't think it's tenable for Apple
to continue with this happening.

Also, Apple doesn't want to just not take
people's money.

That's true.

They want to take your money and the M5
seems to

Yeah.

be available much more readily.

Now there are couple of configurations of
the MacBook Pro that are like

two to three weeks delivery time,

Which is not bad, it's not bad.

but you're going to get it in two to three
weeks.

Yeah.

You don't it's not like they're going to
not ship it to you.

So

Could that also be though, so the MacBook
M5 Pro and M5 Max MacBook Pro,

those were available in March,

so about two months ago they were
available to purchase.

Apple probably built many of those
configurations or had the chips

in hand before that, so couldn't it be
they're still able to sell

the chips and MacBook Pros they had as
they were leading up to the launch?

whereas they couldn't do that kind of
preparatory work for a new Mac Studio,

Mac Mini? Because if you order an M5 Max
MacBook Pro right now,

it's not like they're going to start
building it in the factory tomorrow.

That computer is probably already
configured.

It just has to get over here.

they don't carry much inventory.

I mean, that's the whole Tim Cook thing is
the I mean,

Really? Okay.

they have inventory of like circuit boards
and stuff.

And I think they get a set. I don't
understand all the intricacies of it.

But Apple's whole thing is like zero
inventory.

They don't carry inventory. The true test
is you can

get basically every configuration you can
possibly imagine from B and H

of a MacBook Pro right now. And they're
all in stock there,

which tells you they have easy access to
all of these things.

Hmm.

And so all I'm trying to say is

Okay.

I don't think there's something unique
about the Mac Mini and the

Mac Studio except that they're still on
the M4 and in some cases

M3 generation chips and those are just no
longer being made.

right.

They're no longer really available.

I guess there's the iMac. What's the
availability on an iMac?

I think you can get any configuration of
an iMac too.

That's a question.

But it's also the amounts of RAM.

Because you can get a 96 gigabyte RAM
MacStudio right now.

Well, you can't. You can order it,

Well, you can order it, but I'm saying
like,

but you're never going to get it.

but it's the 128, 256, 512, those much
higher,

which are not available on the MacBook
Pro.

I think the most you can get on the
MacBook Pro is 128,

128 is available on M5 Max.

but the 256, 512, they want to probably
offer those tiers,

because once that M5 MacStudio goes on
sale,

they want to be able to sell the most
expensive model.

And maybe there's an issue with that.

I don't know.

That's some speculation, but anyway.

Yeah, I just think it has

more to do because you can buy ~ an iMac
maxed out right now and it'll come next

week. And that's an M4 based thing.

So I think it is just a function.

I'm not saying the RAM shortage doesn't
have anything to do with it.

What I'm saying is it's a specific RAM
shortage on chips that are basically

end of life, not end of life, but like
turning out of the cycle.

But yeah, yeah. Okay, okay.

And I feel like that's probably the thing
here.

And you can probably, and you can get an
iPad,

an M5 iPad Pro probably like tomorrow.

Absolutely, you probably go get it today.

Just go to Best Buy.

Yeah,

she's got a best buy, that's all it is.

All right, and speaking of money though
that you might get from Apple,

Speaking of money...

speaking of money, Apple Intelligence.

So there was a class action lawsuit where
it was basically a false advertising type

lawsuit because once the iPhone 16 launch,

Apple really pushed Apple Intelligence
super hard,

so much so that they had put up videos on
their YouTube channel with Bella Ramsey

talking about Apple Intelligence features,

took some of those videos down,

specifically the personalized Siri type
ones.

And now this class action lawsuit,

Apple has settled with $250 million saying
that if you bought devices

in the period where they were advertising,

this would be between June 10,

2024 and March 29, 2025.

Those devices would have been the 15 Pro
and Pro Max and the entire 16 lineup.

If you bought any of those devices,

you might be eligible. This is like one of
those like medication commercials.

Like you might be, you might be eligible
for a pad.

you might get money from Apple.

The payout will be $25 per eligible
device.

The maximum payout might be $95,

but it depends how many people file claims
and want money from the device that they

bought. So the more people want to make
this claim,

the less money everyone will get.

But yeah, Apple's gonna have to pay out
for false advertising

for Apple Intelligence. And there's like
two features specifically that

was under this heading. And basically the
personalized Siri was the big one.

because there's actually videos on that,

like on Apple's YouTube channel.

There were commercials run on TV for that
personalized cereal and they're gonna have

to pay $250 million. It's not that much,

They're paying nothing, Steven.

Tim

yeah, I know it's not that much.

Cook could literally just write this off
of his taxes personally.

Like this is so nothing. Also,

this paragraph is, the editor in me is
dying here.

I'm sorry, who wrote this 95 Mac article?

It was Chance, it was Chance Miller.

Is Chance, listen Chance, I think you're
amazing.

And I don't think this is your fault
because I think this is the

way it's been explained. The payout will
be $25.

But that number could vary.

If a large number of people, it might be
lower or the maximum is 95.

Then what is the, no one knows what is the
$25 even mean?

I don't know the... yeah, yeah.

It's like Schrodinger's payout.

It's anything from $1 to $95 is what we're
basically saying.

Again, this is not Jance's fault,

That's right.

but I'm just like, and the $250 million
settlement includes attorney's fees.

This is the stupidest thing I've ever
heard of.

Right.

Like no one bought one of those devices
just because of the promises

of Apple intelligence. Literally zero
people.

should be getting this money. if you,

mean, whatever, get your money.

I think it's fine. But it is so dumb
because this is actually costing Apple
nothing.

Yeah, get the money, that's fine.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It is just a way for a bunch of,

somebody saw those ads and was like,

this, I'm buying another house.

I'm super buying another house because I'm
going to find a bunch of people

and I'm going to start a class action
lawsuit.

And I just think this whole thing is so
dumb.

Yeah.

The lawyers are basically going to make
more money than any individual user.

Absolutely. They'll get a third of that.

yeah, there you go. Right,

they're going right, exactly. So the
lawyers found a way to make a bag and
then,

you know, that's that.

And Apple's

like, whatever for this amount of money.

Will you just go away? We know Siri sucks
just Because it sucks way more than

That's exactly.

250 million dollars bad like come on

Yeah, exactly. Do you, you going to file
the claim?

Are you going to get your $95 to $25?

I'm sure my wife will be like,

you're filing the claim, honey.

Cause she's using the 16 Pro right now and
she's really real mad about the Apple,

Really? think- Really?

no, I'm just kidding. She doesn't even
know that Apple intelligence is

I was gonna say, is she really?

a thing that exists in the world.

That's hilarious. All right, we need to
talk about some data centers because

I keep there have been some wild videos on
social media about data center

in Utah and people protesting that.

Then there's the data center in Tennessee
that a friend,

Stephen Hackett is writing about and Kevin
O'Leary from Shark Tank fame.

I don't know if it was his first day on
the internet,

but he did not have a good video.

So we're going to we're going talk about
all that.

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Okay, I know data centers don't sound
exciting,

but I've been seeing more and more posts,

a lot of them are snazzy labs,

who I believe, Quinn Nelson lives in Utah,

and there's a massive data center that's
going to be built in Utah.

I'll link the Axios article, which does
not seem to be behind a paywall,

which is nice. You can just read about it.

But this data center is going to use twice
as much energy

as the entire state has been using.

Okay? And there is much consternation
because one,

it's going to take up a huge amount of
space or whatever.

But the way this is going to be powered
has been very contentious.

There's been like videos on X and I'll
actually link a couple posts that Quinn

Nelson has been like commenting under.

But they were going to vote, the
commissioners were going to vote

on this data center this past Monday and
they had to delay it because just massive

protests, people shouting down these
meetings and the

One of the biggest issues is the investors
and those wanting to build

the data center are saying it's going to
be powered by different kinds of energy.

It's going to be wind and solar and it's
going to be cleaner-ish energy.

And even Kevin O'Leary, which we'll get to
in a second,

who's I guess an investor in this data
center,

is talking about how it's going to be
clean energy.

But there's been several sources that say
100 % of the power will come from natural

gas.

And so that is going to create emissions.

And again, using more power than the
entire state of Utah.

the equivalent is, I forget,

I can't find the number exactly.

Utah's annual average consumption is four
gigawatts.

And at full capacity, this data center
will reach nine gigawatts of power.

So more than double the amount of power
that the entire state uses.

And so Kevin O'Leary,

He was like, if you're not familiar,

he's Mr. Wonderful, quote unquote,

on Shark Tank. And he posted this video on
X.

This is, again, ~ it feels very tone deaf.

But he starts by saying, quote,

this is his tweet, I'm the only developer
of data centers on Earth that graduated

from environmental studies. I'm pretty
aware of what these concerns are.

They are around air, water use,

heat, noise pollution, and yada yada.

And then he has this long video,

it's like a minute, almost two minutes
long.

I don't know if he had no coaching or if
he just didn't care.

The whole video is weird because he's
sitting in a car looking like off camera,

like not once does he look at the camera,

he's just like seemingly talking to the
driver,

I guess. And he's basically saying how
everyone's making a big deal about this

but nobody knows what they're talking
about.

The reader context, there's like multiple
links to the Axios article

and others talking about how what he's
saying is.

not right and Quinn Nelson's right there
underneath it.

This feels like one,

an inflection point of companies and the
need of

the infrastructure to support all the AI
usage is now hitting like real people

and people are not happy about it.

And they are protesting and they're like,

we don't want this massive data center in
our state probably affecting water

sources.

and pollution and all of that and you have
the one side Kevin O'Leary saying like

yeah he's just don't know what to say he's
the only one on earth maybe

he is the only one on earth that's
graduated from environmental studies

i also don't think he's like a developer
of data centers like that's a

i don't know yeah what does that mean

Also, what does that mean? He graduated

from environmental studies. They did an
environmental study on him and

he made it out. Like I don't even know
what that means.

Is that what his degree is in?

Like what does it mean to say you
graduated from environmental studies?

He graduated with college with a degree
and I don't know,

Steven. This is not going to. This is not
going to happen.

This is what you do so you can raise a
bunch of money to build a

big data center because this is the thing
right now that everyone is talking about.

But we don't need a trillion dollars of
data centers,

right?

this moment, right? And how much solar do
you think it will take to power this data

And not too much, too much.

center? The entire state of Utah would
have to be covered in solar panels

to power a nine gigawatt ~ data center.

Like, I don't understand this,

Stephen.

Yeah, and this was the, I'll put a link to
this X-post.

It's a video and it's actually showing
like the meeting and just people yelling

and it's got like 10 million views here on
X.

It's two and a half times the size of
Manhattan.

40,000 acres. That's how this big,

this massive data center would be.

And Kevin O'Leary also claimed in his
video that they were busing people

in for these meetings to try and make a
stink about it.

Which is something we have heard in the
past of like,

I don't know, trying to whatever.

But there's a ton of people also here on
Xp like,

no, we've not been bused in. Like I live
here,

here's a picture from like my house and
like we don't want this data center.

And this is also why you hear like CEOs
and people talking about data centers

in space or whatever, is so that they can
do whatever.

no one's protesting the space data center,

There's no protesters there.

but just.

Just insane, just insane. And so that's
that data center in Utah.

You're saying you don't think it's gonna
happen.

You think this is gonna be voted down.

I mean, do you think that, ~ open AI is
building $3 trillion with

the data centers or whatever insane number
they said that they're going to do?

No, you do you say these things like,

~

What's his name? Mr. Wonderful.

doesn't Kevin O'Leary. He doesn't have the
whatever $12 billion.

Yeah, Kevin O'Leary.

I don't even know if this thing's gonna
cost.

He doesn't have that money. I the guy's
got a lot of money,

but he doesn't have that kind of money.

So he's raising money for this.

This is not about data centers.

It's just a business. It's just it is
literally an opportunity to seize the
moment.

He has enough capital and enough
credibility that he can get other people
involved

to put a bunch of money together to start
a project.

But by the time something actually gets
built,

it's not going to be this.

That doesn't mean that the people
shouldn't be protesting if they

if that's they feel. I personally don't
think that we need.

Massive data centers everywhere.

I just don't think that's the quality of
life that any of us wants,

but I think it's Neely that talks about
software brain,

right? Where he this is a perfect example
of that.

Right. Yeah.

People in Utah. Would much rather go
outdoors and

see Utah than to go outdoors and see data
centers everywhere,

right? And it's like you're.

We don't want to live on chat GPT or
clawed like it's really useful,

but I would rather be able to go outside
and someday you know I've been

to Utah a couple times. Someday it's like
fun to go outdoors and see things like.

Right, and so I think that people are like
yeah,

Yes, it is good to go outside.

Literally touch grass, as the kids say.

like you're so AI pill that you think a
better use of this land.

Is to build a massive data center 2 1⁄2
times the size of I guess that's

the entire facility. I don't think that's
the.

building itself, but like two and a half
times the size of Manhattan.

See later.

Like it is such a weird dichotomy of like
people who don't live in the real world,

but can just can just say things and get
people to give money towards something

Right.

because right now that seems okay.

Or like seems like the hot new thing.

But this, mean, Steven, we haven't talked
about it in a while,

Yeah.

but I mean, this kind of feels like a
bubble.

Well that, yeah. So,

A 40,000 acre bubble.

okay, we're gonna talk about the second
data center too and maybe that lends
itself

to it. I do want to mention one other
thing.

The physicist Robert Davies from Utah
State University,

did say a natural gas powered data center
of this size would raise Utah's

current total greenhouse gas production by
about 50%.

Whether you feel like that's bad or not,

that's a significant difference.

Like one data center in the state.

So that's the Utah data center and

Again, like if you watch the videos,

like these people, they feel very strongly
about it,

as you would, like if you lived in that
town and they were about to build it,

like I totally get it. Then there was
another deal.

This was announced by Anthropic.

They phrased or pitched it as like higher
usage limits for Clawed,

like they're gonna raise the usage limits
if you're on the Pro or the Max plan.

They're gonna take away some of the peak
time limitations because of

a compute deal with SpaceX. And the crux
of this is,

XAI was building a data center in
Tennessee and it was going to be

a massive data center. ~ XAI is calling it
Colossus One or SpaceX.

Sorry, another thing. Elon Musk,

he's saying SpaceX and XAI are not gonna
be two different things.

Or XAI is not gonna be a separate thing
anymore.

It's just SpaceX AI. It's just one word,

one company. Okay, cool.

So they were planning, XI was planning on
building this data center in Memphis.

Colossus One, which I do have to give them
credit.

Colossus is like a cool name, like for
anything.

I mean, I don't know if it's cool to call
it data center that,

~ but it's one of my favorite X-Men.

I'll just say that. Anyway, this is gonna
be the,

it's gonna feature over 220,000 Nvidia
GPUs.

You know how much money just the GPUs
would cost?

I

don't know, but this is why you can't buy
a Mac mini right now.

This is why you can't buy Mac mini or Mac
Studio.

So Stephen Hackett has written about this
and I will link his article.

But this massive data center, it was being
built by XAI,

Colossus One, but guess what? They don't
need it because they don't have use for
it.

XAI is not that demanding of all the data.

And so they are licensing it to Anthropic
and Anthropic will use this entire data

center. So Claude is going to be...

This is they're being able to raise the
limits.

And this is a facility, I believe,

that's already built, correct?

And Colossus 2 is up and running.

And Musk says XAI no longer needs the
first site.

it's like, is a data center that's already
built.

And this is happening now. And mean,

Stephen Hackett, lives in Tennessee.

And yeah, he has covered this data center
as well.

It's not super great.

Yeah, there's so many different things
here you could spend a lot

of time thinking about. We won't spend any
time on really any of them.

But the most interesting thing is like
they built a data center and they can't

use it because no one's using XAI.

No one's using GROK. And so we're actually
gonna just say it's the AI from SpaceX,

No one's using grok. Basically.

which.

What part of launching a rocket into space
and satellites is AI exactly?

I don't fully understand how that all
works still.

Again, was it in the pre-show we were
talking about the pockets?

Because this is just more pockets,

Yes,

Stephen.

It's more important. Yeah, it's just
moving money around to different pockets,

but.

It's like

I don't have any money in this pocket,

but I have a bunch of money in this other
one and I need some over here.

So I'm just going to move it around.

Like, I don't know.

Yeah, hopefully our entire landscape
doesn't become data centers.

That's all. Let's not do that.

And I know the US has a lot of land.

Yeah.

I mean, I understand that. I've driven
through some of those middle states.

But we also don't need to have huge data
centers.

Listen, we don't

like to be talked about as the middle
states.

Can I just say I saw a map of someone
showing what the Midwest is,

and the states that are claimed to be
Midwest,

and how many are neither west of the
center line nor ~ south.

It's just like, I don't know.

Yeah, the Midwest, we live in the Midwest,

but really, we're just slightly west of
the East Coast.

It's fine. But I just think that I just
feel like you call us the middle states.

Exactly

There's this ~ famous like West Wing quote
where he's like something there's like,

don't know how we're going to reach the
flyover states and the other guys like,

you could start by not calling them the
flyover states.

Right, right exactly.

Listen, everything west of New York is the
Midwest because I grew up in New York.

No, I'm just kidding. If I made you mad,

I'm sorry.

I'm not mad. Pennsylvania is not the
Midwest though.

Yeah, Pennsylvania is the Midwest.

But isn't like Ohio is the Midwest and
it's like,

Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin,

and it's not even close to being the west
side of the United States.

Minnesota, Missouri.

It's just funny.

But the West is

like, is sort of, well, we're not,

we don't have time.

Anyway, leave us a five star rating
review,

let us know, where does the Midwest start?

What state starts the Midwest?

All right, the OpenAI Musk trial is still
going on and Mira Moradi took the stand.

She is a former, or was a former CEO of
OpenAI.

I feel like she was, she was CEO for like
five minutes.

was super briefly the CEO. They needed a

~

CEO because they booted Sam Altman and so
they needed a CEO and she became

Yes.

CEO and then he came back and then shortly
later she left.

Yeah, so she was super quick, but,

and some of the rumors swirling around
that departure of Miramirati was like,

is Sam Altman not a good dude?

And so on the stand, Miramirati testified
that Altman falsely stated that

OpenAI's legal department determined a new
AI model did not need to

go through the company's deployment safety
board.

And so they asked Miramirati, as you
understand it,

was Mr. Altman telling the truth when he
made that statement to you?

And Miramirati answered in a deposition,

no.

So she just made it clear that Sam Altman
lied about some of

the safety measures that they were
supposedly taking when they were putting
these

models. And remember, this case,

this is Elon Musk trying to make Sam
Altman look like a really bad dude.

And then it's Sam Altman trying to make
Elon Musk look like a really bad dude.

So neither of them have to give up
anything or pay any money.

But it is interesting to hear some of the
testimony now of former OpenAI.

The former OpenAI CEO is like,

yeah, Sam Altman kind of lied to my face
and was not doing the safety precautions.

Yeah. Yeah, there's that.

There's I

really wish it was video of this trial.

Like I really want to see these people on
the stand because people also said Elon

Musk like lost his temper after the lawyer
said,

do you, you Elon Musk said I'm a pretty
calm person.

And then it immediately proceeded to,

Which is a thing you should never say when
you're on the stand with a

never say, never say.

lawyer being cross-examined because the
only thing they're gonna do at that point

is try to get you to lose your temper.

That's it. That's the only thing they have
to do

that.

That's it. So yeah. All right.

Let's talk about some streaming apps
because this we either didn't mention this

is happening after we recorded but Netflix
rolled out a feature of their app.

So they're basically reels and Instagram
and Tik Tok now.

So there's that. I still. This is you know
this way you can discover more shows

Yeah, I know if this is good.

and so it's launched a know vertical feed
for its app.

OK.

But if these are just

gonna be previews of the shows,

this sucks. If they're like clips or
something,

Well.

that's fine. But all they're gonna do is
make a vertical feed of ads for shows.

No, it's not ads and it's not even the
trailers.

It's not like you would see a movie
trailer.

They're literally like clips from the
shows basically like you would

see on TikTok and Instagram, which you
know,

I've seen so many just random clips.

There's also a good article on the verge
right now called the clippening like

a play on words from the happening.

Just talking about all the anonymous
accounts clipping content like from
podcasts

and stuff. It's wild. But this is
basically that is Netflix saying,

yeah, just come to our app. I'm curious
like how many people are actually going

to scroll a vertical TikTok feed in the
Netflix app.

I can't imagine very many people.

I don't

Yeah,

I don't know. But this is like you go to
the grocery store to buy produce,

right? And what if your favorite fast food
restaurants like well,

you know what? Everyone's going to the
grocery store to buy produce.

What if we just had produce? It's like you
don't you don't get it,

What if we sell broccoli?

dude. We don't want the produce from,

you know, the Bob's Chicken or whatever.

Mmm, that's good.

Like we go to the grocery store for that.

There's already an app. If you want to
watch tick tock style videos of these
shows,

Yeah.

Right.

you know where you do. You just go to tick
tock.

But the.

That's it.

All of these apps will not be satisfied
until you spend 100 % of your free time
with

their app open on your phone.

That's

the thing. That's the thing. And Disney is
also going to try and make

a play for this. They say it's going to
try and become a super app,

which I'm also kind of tired of that term,

super app.

Yeah, but OK.

Other side of this argument. Disney kind
of actually has an argument

Yes.

for this because they're like the Super
Corporation,

right? You got boats, you got theme parks,

Fair.

you got streaming services, you got movie
theaters,

you got ABC, you got all these ESPN
sporting events.

I mean, it's honestly not insane that
Disney might have an app where

Yeah, yeah.

you could do all those things.

I don't know if it's a good idea or not,

but it's not like it's not like Uber,

which is now like.

Hey, you you hailed a car, what if you
hailed a hotel room?

Like it's like, right? But at least Disney
has all this stuff.

Hello, hotel room.

And Disney's not adding a vertical
scrolling feed of video yet that we know
of,

but this super app is supposedly like the
Disney parks and resorts and cruises.

There's like Disney apps for all these
things and they're gonna try and bring

it all into one. I feel like when you try
to put too much into a single app,

it becomes pretty messy. That's just my
opinion.

That's why like apps that do kind of one
thing well,

except for Jason's app, which does notes,

reminders, and events very well.

Just throwing that out there.

It's

just the perfect flow. Yeah.

perfect

flow. I also think it's hilarious that
this like Disney image

has like multiple sequels as what they're
showing off.

It's like Frozen 2, Hocus Pocus 2.

yeah. Anyway Disney Super App,

Yeah.

cruise line. Have you ever been on a
Disney cruise?

I've been on Disney Cruise twice actually.

Is it pretty good?

Yeah, this is back when Disney was like
leasing its boats from someone else,

but they were pretty cool. It was,

I mean, they weren't huge boats at the
time.

I still think Disney's cruise ships are
not like the big,

big ones because they don't have to be
the,

Yeah.

that doesn't have to be the attraction
because you know,

there's Mickey Mouse.

Right.

Right. I have been on the big,

big, ~ I've been on the Harmony of the
Seas from Royal Caribbean.

The big ships are pretty fun. I'll give
you that.

They're fun stuff. Vox, which is the
parent company of The Verge,

Yeah, I agree.

might be getting acquired. this was
recently,

or earlier this week, the Wall Street
Journal reports and others that James
Murdoch,

son of Rupert Murdoch, is in talks to buy
Vox and New York Magazine

and the podcast division, which includes
shows like

The Vergecast actually waveform MKBHD's
podcast as part of the Vox Media Network.

And also, what is the Scott Galloway pivot
with Kara Swisher?

pivot.

So James Murdoch might be, he is in talks
too,

and possibly late talks to acquire all of
that.

But you said you heard Kara Swisher
talking about this specifically?

~ Well, she was saying that That probably
for most people not much will change

and maybe she was talking specifically
about her show because what it means

to be a part of the network simply means
that they just pooled together shows

to buy ad inventory, right? So it's like
you actually I think on

a recent most recent episode of waveform
They actually talked about

not this but what does it mean to be a
part of boxes podcast network?

And I think it was MKB HD was like well
what that means is that?

they sell ads because a big advertiser
could look at six shows and be like,

well, we'll buy ads on all six shows
instead of those six companies together
trying

to do all that. so from that perspective,

I don't think that it would because I
think like MKBHD owns this podcast

and Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway own
Pivot.

They're just a part of the network.

And that's I think it's different than
like Relay where Relay,

think, owns those shows. I don't know how
that part of it works.

Yeah, anyway.

Yeah, I'm not sure exactly.

If I gotta talk to a relay host and find
out,

Something like that. Well,

I'm just kidding. It doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter.

I'm still new. I'm still new. But that's
one of the reasons why I always,

I mention this and I don't think it's,

I don't know. I don't know how much people
care,

whatever. like, that's why I wanted this
show to be so,

like so independent. It's not under any
umbrella.

And when you're not under an umbrella,

it is very difficult to like grow and
sometimes get sponsors.

We do work with an ad agency.

But they're like they don't have
exclusivity and they don't like they're

not over the show at all And so it is very
different like all the shows

as you see vox media network Which is a
bunch of shows like also all

the verge shows so you got the verge you
have version history Decoder all of that.

We're not we're not we're literally
independent.

We're like the Just this the dude on the
corner like it's just us.

Yeah, we're just a bunch of dudes on the
corner.

We're just us out here Which is just a
That's right,

We've been in hotel rooms. I've recorded
the show from Denmark.

that's right

We're just dudes

in places.

That's right,

and you might be recording somewhere else
pretty soon.

~ And that might be true.

Anyway, we'll get to that in a second.

A couple quick bits. The US Supreme Court,

SCOTUS, Apple has been trying to pause
this ~ in the Epic case,

so Apple v Epic Games. Remember,

Judge Gonzales Rogers held Apple in
contempt for not

~ following the ruling in the previous
Epic Games course,

saying that they're still being hostile
with the whole like,

app developers and linking out other apps
and things like that.

And Apple's been trying to pause that
order.

still, didn't realize that was still going
on.

But the Supreme Court said, no,

you don't get to pause this. And so I'm
still not sure what this will change

in people's experience in the apps.

Maybe some apps won't get rejected now if
they link out to something,

but yeah.

Yeah, well, I

think what happened here is I'm trying to
remember I was like scanning through this

turn remember, but essentially like YGR is
how we what we call her judge YGR.

Yes, the judge. Who's also the judge in
the Elon Musk Sam Altman trial.

~ Yeah,

there's only like a couple of these
judges.

There's Judge Meta Judge Gonzalez Rogers.

We just keep popping up. They never wanted
to be famous.

And yet here we are. We call her YGR.

That's right. That's right. YG.

We should we should call her judge.

I should I don't mean any disrespect.

But anyway, Your Honor. Yes, Judge.

Your Honor.

OK, but.

~ Basically, she was like, you're,

you're in contempt because you didn't
implement this in the way that

I intended and you're being belligerent
about it.

And I think Apple's appeal is essentially
like,

Right.

well, we weren't being belligerent,

we actually have an argument, you can't
say that the the amount can't be zero.

So there is an amount and you just
disagree with the amount.

So that's not the same thing as anyway.

And so she issued this ruling.

And I think what Apple is saying until we
can go back and totally figure out

what that should be, this should be
paused,

right? And I think the Supreme Court was
like,

just do the thing. Just do the thing.

No. Just do the thing.

And this is one of those, you know,

it's about money. Apple doesn't want to
give a

Also Apple

won on nine of 10 counts. This is the one
count they lost.

Exactly that. Okay, well, we to get to
personal tech.

We have a bunch of personal tech and or
bonus content we might get to,

but I do also want to shout out
Transistor.fm.

did a little case study on us.

Some friend, Justin Jackson, he's the
co-founder of Transistor and

didn't hurt or

anything. The case study it didn't hurt I
didn't feel anything.

It didn't hurt, totally painless.

I didn't even didn't even know what
happened.

Exactly.

But he was asking what has been the video
podcast experience,

and so I've been sharing with him some
numbers.

And you can see, however you feel about
video and Apple podcasts,

the exposure it has gotten this show is
tremendous.

It's a lot more. But there are also a lot
of things like the challenges

or the downsides, like chapters and all
that kind of stuff.

I did mention all of that. And I don't
know,

maybe I'll have an update on that.

some of this stuff in a couple weeks.

~ That's all I can say about that.

We'll see. But I voice the concerns as
well.

Okay, great, I can't wait.

And I would just say that the right people
heard it.

The right people saw the concerns.

That's all I'll say. That's all I'll say.

Good.

I'm not the right people because I didn't
know that this happened.

So I did not see that, but I already know
the concerns are.

It's fine.

Exactly. All right, got a bunch of stuff.

mean, the Spirit Airlines thing happened.

Spirit just totally went under randomly.

You wrote about that. I have an app I'm
doing.

I don't know. What should we talk about?

What was your article about Spirit?

Oh, we're in the personal tech section
now.

This is the personal tech segment.

Okay. Well,

Yeah.

I mean, I've never flown Spirit in my
entire life.

I do have friends that used to like,

Neither have I.

I think this is either in high school or
college,

like they'd fly from Michigan to Florida
for like $19 each way.

And you had to pack in your backpack
because you weren't allowed to check

a bag for that price or whatever.

But like, it is kind of insane to think
how can an airline exist

if they're only charging $19 for a one way
flight or whatever.

But the the article that I wrote was that
there's two

Yeah.

Two different airlines had announcements
on the same day,

and both of them pointed at the same
thing,

which is gas prices super high,

right? One of those airlines went under,

like just stopped flying altogether,

and that was Spirit, they were like
basically the cost of fuel.

And the cost of jet fuel has been the
highest cost for airlines for a long time,

right there with employee costs,

right? And over like the last couple of
years,

labor costs have actually exceeded that ~
for most airlines.

But suddenly fuel costs just jumped right
back up there and it just

no longer became profitable to fly these
airplanes because of how expensive it is.

Like I drove past a sign. I don't know
what it's like in Florida,

but I drove past a sign where it's like
$4.99 a gallon here and $6.99

a gallon for diesel. So like milk's
getting more expensive.

Everything's getting more expensive.

And so, and then the same day Delta put
out a press release that they're giving

everybody a raise. 4 % raise. They had
promised it.

Wow. That's wow.

They do this. They've been doing it for
several years.

They sent in a letter saying, Hey,

despite the fact that, you know,

costs are insane, we're going to

we're going invest in our people because
we think that that's the right thing to
do.

It was just an interesting contrast.

People can pick on Delta because they are
more expensive,

but also they're still flying.

That's right. They also, I saw they
stopped serving snacks to economy

on flights less than an hour or something.

~ Delta.

Yeah, I think you're going to stop doing

the service, but I think you could like
still ask for bottles of water

or whatever it is. But like, I mean,

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's fine.

yeah, I get it.

That's fine. It was just crazy to me.

I saw all the videos on TikTok and Reels
of like people who had flights booked

on Spirit and all the airports were like,

if you had a flight on Spirit,

do not come to the airport. There's no one
here to help you.

Right. There's no spirit anymore.

Just doesn't exist. And then there's like
one guy who's like trying

to raise enough money to maybe buy the
airline.

I don't even know how that works.

I can't imagine that that's possible.

Well, and

you can't just because the airline went
under doesn't mean you can buy it

for like a dollar because there's loans on
all those planes,

right? You'd have to be able to pay off
all that debt.

Right.

Right, exactly. I will say, know,

Spirit and Frontier are like the ultra
low-cost airlines,

LCCs as they call them. And I've never
flown Spirit,

but I did fly Frontier once. Have ever
flown Frontier?

I don't think so.

They had a direct flight to Vegas from
Orlando and my wife and I flew it.

Let me tell you, I did not realize a plane
could be that low cost.

As in like, like the seats,

Ha

there's like no padding in the seats.

It's just basically like a plastic
wrapped,

like there's, there's like,

You have to pay extra for a cushion.

there's like no cushion. And like the tray
table was like the size of like a,

like a $20 bill. It was just like,

that was the trade. I was like,

this, I did not realize.

that this is ultra low cost. people were
like,

is a little, you people actually had
nostalgic feelings about Spirit because
they

were like, allowed me to travel places
because it was ultra cheap.

And yeah, so there's that.

Yeah.

I flew Southwest once. That's as low as I
go.

Yeah, Southwest

is fine. They have assigned seating now
though.

It's like a different experience.

Yeah, if you're going to if you're going
to do that,

you might as well just fly United or Delta
or whatever.

Anyway, you fly a lot. Wait, do you want
to say here where you might be going,

or do want to save it? You have a lot of
trips coming up.

I have a lot of trips coming up.

But one

of them would be really fun. I might I'm
only going to say is,

I've been to a couple grand prix's.

This year I might be going to the mother
of all grand prix's.

Yes.

mother of all Grand Prix's. ~

I think that is

the official term. I don't think that's
the official term,

Mother of all Grand Prix's. MOAGP.

but I think it is the most famous one.

And can you say what you'll be doing
there?

Not yet. OK, just kidding. Just kidding.

I definitely cannot say what I'm going to
be doing there.

Just kidding. No,

That's wild.

I

can say that to our listeners,

I'm I'm hoping to be in Monaco during the
time when there's a Grand Prix.

Let me just that's all I'm going to say.

That's amazing.

That's amazing. That's very cool.

You also might be going to Google I.O.

Yeah, I'm going to be at Google IO.

Did you get, like, do you have to get
invited to that?

Did you get an invite for

Yeah, I

did get an invitation. I've gone,

this'll be the fourth year, I think.

Yeah, I know you'd normally go.

Last year I got to check out their
glasses,

you know.

Right, right, yeah. I didn't get any
invite for that,

so you'll have to vicariously.

You could just send them an email.

Yeah, I guess I don't have an email.

I'm also like, I mean, I'm holding out for
dub-dub.

Hopefully I just get an invite for that.

He's like, didn't get an invite.

I mean, I would like to go,

I also don't really care. It's fine.

but you know, it's all a trip.

It ~

is a very different experience than
Dub-Dub in a lot of ways.

Okay.

One, it's a live presentation,

so there's that. It's in the amphitheater
in Mountain View.

That's nice.

~ They're different.

mean, they have the same feel to developer
conferences,

it is sort of like a chaotic feel to the
whole thing.

really? Is it multi-days?

Maybe it's because I usually fly

in super late. There's usually two days.

I don't usually stick around for the
second day,

but it's like I usually fly in late,

like the Monday night if it's on Tuesday
and then you have to be there super early.

It doesn't start till 10, but you got to
be there like eight o'clock,

which is kind of like dub dub.

~ And then there's stuff you do in the
afternoon and then I fly home

Yeah.

and it's so maybe my mind is just like I
have to ramp myself up for this even less

You're there like 36 hours, basically?

than that. Usually I'm usually in town for
roughly 24 hours.

Less than that.

That's wild. Okay, that would stress me
out,

Yeah, a little bit.

but ~ I'll stay a more days. I'll mention
one personal tech thing.

AirPods Pro 3, I've been using them since
they came out and I really like them.

Have you been still on the AirPods Pro 3?

Yeah, I have a real personal tech thing
here in a second,

but go ahead.

Okay,

well you get that. Well, comply is the
tips,

the third party tips that I use on the
AirPods Pro 2.

And when the threes came out, Apple
adjusted the tips enough where they've
been

comfortable and they've stayed in my ears
better than past models.

The AirPods Pro 3 had that little like
foam inside that helps it expand and keep
it.

But there were still times where I found
the AirPods Pro 3 sliding out just

a little bit and I would have to like
re-seat them like if I was doing

my grocery shopping or whatever.

And so Comply finally came out with their
AirPods Pro 3 tips.

And so I did get them. These are like the
Max version.

They didn't send them to me. I just bought
them on Amazon.

They're like 25 bucks. They come in a
couple different colors.

And I will say I've used them now for the
past couple days.

I really like them. I still like and
prefer the Comply tips over

the even AirPods Pro 3, even though those
are better and improved over the two.

I prefer the Comply. They're super solid
in my ear.

I find...

I get a better ANC experience because of
the seal and because they don't slightly

slip out and they're still super
comfortable.

These do get, because they're more foam,

they can, like after a year of use or
maybe less depending on

how much you're sweating in them,

they can get not as nice, but they're also
like 25 bucks.

And so you can get a pack where all three
are the same size and so

you can basically get three pairs for like
25 bucks.

of all mediums and so if they do get
really nasty you can just toss them

and just use the next pair and you could
have like three years of tips in it.

But I still, I really like these,

I got them and I recommend if you struggle
with AirPods Pro 3 sliding

out or maybe they're not comfortable for
you I would try the...

Nice. All right. Well, I mean,

Yeah, what do you got?

I have a fun, fun device. ~ I was just
double checking to make sure that

Yes, yes.

No embargo.

the embargo had actually still passed and
the most recent email I have says it's

passed. Okay. I just wanted to double
check.

Okay.

If not, I'll text you later and be like,

you should delete this ~ the whole
section.

delete that part.

No. So as everyone knows, I'm a fan of the
remarkable.

I have been using, okay, it's on their
website.

So that's good. I've been using the paper
pro move for a while,

Okay.

which is the small one they released,

Yes.

I guess it was yesterday. The pure,

The pure, yeah, I think so.

which I also have here. Hold on.

I can't see anything. and this is,

it's bigger. I don't.

is bigger than the move, like.

Yeah, I don't have one of the original
ones here with me,

like the paper pro or the remarkable or
the remarkable to

but this one is smaller and it also has
the nice area on the side where

you can hold it, which is really nice.

Yes.

~ And this is basically the new entry
level version.

So it's the non-color, but it does have
mostly the same specs as like

the Paper Pro Move, just with a bigger
screen.

It doesn't have a backlight, which is one
of the ways they've saved on expenses.

like a lot of Kindles don't have a
backlight,

right? The entry level ones, you have to
be somewhere where you can actually have

a light shining on it versus the Paper Pro
and the Paper Pro Move.

which in addition to being color also have
their own internal backlight.

So I think it's really great. It's
remarkable.

Okay.

It's a little bit less expensive,

right? Right now it's the least expensive
one you can get.

And if you're looking to try out something
like this,

there is now an option that you don't have
to pay as much for the large size one.

It's kind cool.

It looks,

so we actually talk on the next Mac Power
Users episode all about e-readers with

Jason Snell. He's our guest this Sunday.

And we talk about these kind of
multi-devices.

Neither Jason Snell nor David nor I have
done these things.

But I know you use them all the time,

right? Like you use them.

Yeah,

but I would say this is not a multi device
just to be clear.

Okay, and I wrote about this when I wrote
about the Kindle color soft.

What is the recent the newest one called?

I don't know. It's right over here.

It's the Colorsoft, I thought.

I got the killer. All right, the ammo,

because I got it for my son for Christmas.

It's the Kindle Colorsoft. They have the
Colorsoft signature.

I got one of those two right here.

Okay. I don't know.

Is that what you mean?

I don't know. Anyway, doesn't matter.

So I wrote about this when I did a review
of the of the Kindle.

The Kindle is a book reading device that
you can also write on.

Okay. If you want to take notes on your
books,

Yes.

whatever, it is not a note taking device.

It is not a here's my calendar for the day
and I'm going to take notes

in my meetings. That is not what this
Kindle is.

It can. Thank you. Kindle scribe color
soft.

The Kindle scribe is what you're thinking
of.

I'm sorry. Yeah. Yeah.

Right. Okay. The names are hard.

These companies don't make it easy.

It is not.

Kindle scribe

color stuff. Yeah, you gotta write that.

Yeah, okay.

It is not a multi-device. It is a single
device that does more than one thing,

which is an important distinction.

And I would argue that the remarkable is
the same.

It is not a reading device. Could you load
PDS on here and read them?

You can. Have I done it? Yes. Is it
terrible?

Yes. In a pinch, if this is the only thing
you wanted to carry around,

You

it's like fine for documents. Or if it's
like,

I got to look at this thing later so I can
put it on here,

that's fine. Or like I've used it for
like...

moderating panels. Like literally this is
an overview for moderating

a panel and it's great. And that was just
a PDF that I put on here and then

I can make notes on it that's fine.

But this is a writing device. It is a note
taking device.

And if you would like to read stuff on it,

that's fine, but it is not meant for that.

And so these two devices look like they
overlap and book reading devices look like

they are parallel to this. But I would
argue they are actually there.

They are only the same in the way that a
journal notebook is the same as a book.

No, for real.

Okay, sure.

I get that. No, I get that. I get that.

Right? Could

you stick pages of a book in your notebook
and then read it later?

Yes, you could, but you wouldn't want to
do that.

Just like you can take notes in your
actual book,

but you wouldn't be like journaling or
writing notes from a meeting in your like,

write your Patterson books or whatever.

No, no, I get it.

But like, I mean, these devices look
beautiful and I love the idea of them.

Where, outside of making notes while we
record this show,

well, one, do you do that on the
remarkable while we're recording?

I was not doing that today, but I have
done that many,

times today. The thing that was closest to
my reach was a piece of paper.

So I just was writing him out a piece of
paper.

Okay,

where do you use this in your day to day
work?

So I ~ typically will use it because I
don't have it set up on this

one because I didn't move everything over,

but I guess I could just show you the
move.

I use a, you can download templates for
these and you can just go to like Etsy

or these, there's like a store planner pro
something.com and you just download your

this and you can have your calendar on it
and then you can take notes

to have to do's. You can swipe over and it
has a page where you

can like literally write all your notes
from all of your meetings and everything.

And then you have everything in one place.

So you use it daily?

when I leave the house.

when you leave the house.

Wait, so that's it. Wait, so you use it.

You don't use it at your house.

Well, I guess what I meant was I don't
just sit here and write my notes on it.

I use it for meetings. I use it to keep my
calendar on it.

I make I take my to do list and I write my
to do list on here every

day because the act of writing it out is
really helpful.

I would say I don't use it as as quote
religiously as I had been because

I also go back and forth between the UG
monk like the analog cards.

And I do have a small little notebook that
I use with those as well.

So but that's because I end up like trying
a lot of

different things, but what the remarkable
is where I have a friend who uses

it like for everything. Every time I've
ever sat in a meeting with him,

this is all he brings. Yeah.

Really?

I have still never personally tried a
remarkable,

I'll be honest. And they look so tempting
because it looks so good.

But you also don't take notes on paper,

I don't.

so.

Aspirationally, I feel like maybe I would.

Yeah, but you won't. Like, I don't mean
that.

I'm not being mean. I'm just saying if
you're already not doing that,

No, you're right, you're right.

you don't need this. This will not make
you take notes on paper.

Right, and I also, like if I were to get
one,

I mean the new one is nice, but I feel
like the Move is a nice size because it's

like a notepad size. But yeah,

Yeah, that's great.

I guess I wish I was a handwritten note
person.

I don't know why. It just feels like that
would be a nice thing to be.

~ Because they're fun things to carry
around and if you write in notebooks,

It's fun to care. Yes.

it's fun to have

notebooks that have your personality
instead of just like typing

it into reminders every time you have to
write something down.

See, yes, that all sounds great.

But if you're not doing it, you're not
going to do it.

I think it's also Yeah,

Don't spend 500 bucks on one of these.

If it's not.

because

that's that's that's been the hindrance
it's like 450 well if you want

to get the pen the mark marker too You
have to spend five hundred something
dollars

and i've not done that yet I I guess I
just want another excuse to buy

a gadget that I haven't had yet,

but I won't I won't do that. I mean I
bought this this boondoggle this

I saw this on social media.

This is a casus it is a

Mac Pro looking enclosure for a Mac Mini
and you can basically like screw your

Mac Mini into this thing and then you get
like an SD card slot on top

you get like more USB ports on one side
and you get like

the display ports and other USB C I don't
know why I got this I got it

to make a reel basically and ~ because I
don't even get affiliate revenue

for it but I'm like that's I don't know I
just wanted an excuse

to buy something else but thanks for not
enabling me I appreciate that

You

I that.

right, well, let's see. We're to go record
a bonus episode.

I'm going talk about the app that I'm
making.

And then, I don't know, maybe we'll talk
about your app more.

You kind of mentioned your app.

We'll talk about it again. We'll see.

Yeah, but

I didn't I didn't well, yeah, you're right
because if we do it in

the bonus I already went through all that
for the bonus listener,

so

Yeah, if you don't listen to...

I'm curious if people listen to the bonus
episode but not the unedited show.

Anyway, I'd be curious. Listen,

if you just want to listen to all of it,

what you should do is go to
join.primary.com.

There's a link down in the show notes
where you can get a deal.

$25 a year or $2.50 a month. You get an
ad-free version,

the unedited version, which is actually
edited,

but it includes a pre-show. Maybe we
should rename it.

I don't know. But it has like our 30 to 45
minute pre-show as we shuck and jive.

the show ad free and then the bonus
episode all in one feet so you get that

you get primary tech daily which is Monday
through Friday it's a five minute show

just top news headlines I read that off
and yeah you get all the benefits

and you support the show so you can sign
up that link is down in the show notes

you can also watch us in Apple podcast
Spotify or YouTube we're almost

at 4,000 subscribers on YouTube which is
pretty fun let me look at what

is it at right now maybe it can celebrate
we're at 3,000 ~ I gotta switch

my account 3,000

984. We need 16 more subscribers to get to
4,000 on YouTube.

So go over there subscribe to YouTube
channel.

No, no, no, no, that's not right.

What?

Is

it 84? Okay, got it. I'm sorry.

I can't even see what it it's I can't see
what you can see.

Sorry. You were right. You did math
correctly.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm in the YouTube
studio.

did

I'm sorry.

the math correctly, thank you.

So go subscribe, so we got 4,000 over on
YouTube.

But thanks for watching, listening
wherever you are.

Leave us a five, I got no five star rating
and reviews talking about

the Dell Venue Pro, which I understand I
might be the only person that

has ever bought one and liked it.

But you know, shout out if you ever used a
Windows mobile phone,

leave us a five star rating and review.

Tell us which phone model you had and if
you loved it.

And yeah, thanks for listening,

thanks for watching. We'll catch you next
time.