Primary Technology

Well, I don't think that date could have
gone any worse Welcome

to primary technology the show about the
tech news that matters

the Situationship between open AI and
Microsoft has changed become

a little more perilous We'll get into that
plus anthropic in

the Department of Defense may be getting
back together The NSA

is using mythos supposedly that model so
powerful the public can't use it Google

Employees are actually petitioning Sundar
Pichai to not let the Pentagon use its AI.

Musk and Altman are going at it in court
right now.

Plus we're gonna do a little follow up on
John Ternes as Apple's new CEO

and a ton more. This episode is
exclusively brought to you by you,

the members who support us directly.

I'm one of your host, Stephen Robles,

and joining me once again for the third
time,

developer Jason Atan. How's it going,

Jason?

I was

like, wait, we've done way more than three
episodes of this show.

No, no, but this is the

What are you talking about?

third time you're developer, Jason Aten.

That's it. ~ Thank you,

it's a developing situation.

thank you. Well, do you have any idea?

I know it was a very vague quote.

Well, I don't think that date could have
gone any worse.

it's not? You know.

It's not a vague quote. Yeah,

isn't it? It's Mike Wazowski in Monster's
Inc.

You nailed the movie, it is MonsterZinc.

Apparently it's Sully, but yes.

Are you sure?

I mean, that's what this janky movie
website told me.

It's supposedly Sully from MonsterZinc.

All done.

Alright, well you look that up.

If you're watching either an Apple
Podcast,

YouTube, or Spotify, I have a new shirt.

The Medieval Knight on the Polar Bear is
now in the flesh.

Like you can buy it on a shirt.

Jason has one too, but he didn't wear it
today.

Wait, did I wear it? Actually,

no, I have an ATP shirt on. probably did.

Wow ~

She's got a ATP shirt on that's fine.

Well anyway, I'll put a link to get it I
just wanted to have a shirt.

It's an embroidered logo. You can get the
medieval knight on the polar bear.

It's 20 bucks I think I make 50 cents if
you buy a shirt.

I don't care. It's not for profit It's
literally just if you want

a medieval knight riding a polar bear ~ to
adorn on your person So that's that

and we got some five-star review shoutouts
and we got to talk about all

the AI stuff and have a little bit of
follow-up about

John Ternes, I just want to mention.

But five star review shout outs,

Mark Big D from the UK. Loves the podcast.

We have great chemistry and good banter,

Jason. Look at that. RDB, the tech guy
from the USA.

Now this is this directly to you.

I'm a huge Michigan fan and don't even
live there.

How do you live in Michigan but don't like
the University of Michigan?

I'm sorry, well, I didn't hear anything
you said.

I know I heard exactly what you said.

Why don't you like the big house?

He said the big house is so historic.

I mean, that's not a good reason to like a
school.

Are you prepared to answer this question?

Okay, all right. All right, we'll move on.

We'll move on. I'll adjacent think about
that for next week.

Podcast 728 from the USA, my head cut off
in Apple Podcasts still makes them laugh.

If you look at the bottom of our show,

we have host pictures and my head's cut
off and I'm not going to change

it because I think it's hilarious too.

And ~ they asked, has one ever a one star
review stood out?

And I say, no, we don't even read those.

you know.

except everyone knows that that's not
actually true.

I know. I do. Yeah,

Stephen reads every single one of them.

prints them out and he puts, yeah.

that's right. The wall that you can't see
in my camera shot is just covered

in printed out reviews on a three by five
cards.

And then Meskin84 from the USA tabs on the
top for the web browser phone

and back left pocket. And he did mention
the silence trimming.

Listen, I've been struggling with
Riverside.

We talked about in the pre show.

This episode is going to be great.

It's going to be in sync. Silences are
going to be silent,

not cut off, and then you can use whatever
smart speed you want.

We're gonna do that. Yeah, yeah.

And then finally Hokkaido North Country
from Japan.

Someone from Japan listens to the show and
gave us five stars.

And this was nice. They supported the show
and then said there was a deluge

of feeds that were then available to him,

which was a little overwhelming,

which I totally understand because listen,

I have to post all those feeds every week.

So I know how many different versions.

So I just want to say one, this episode is
not sponsored,

but you still get bonus content.

our pre-show and Primary Tech Daily.

And if you just want all the content from
one feed when you support the show,

if you listen to the unedited feed,

spoiler, it's actually pretty edited,

so much so that it has chapters and
chapter artwork,

but it also is the pre-show. And since you
have chapters everywhere,

you could just listen to that version.

If you don't want the intro, you could
just skip it to the show start and

you can go from there. So that's probably
the one feed to rule them all,

because you get the bonus content there as
well.

And the

pre show today was 34 minutes long.

So it's like you get a whole extra
episode.

was?

It was, were talking about Jason's app,

we were talking about my app that I am
developing as well,

or that Claude is developing, however you
want to put it.

Claude is in a closet somewhere developing
an app.

We don't know what's happening.

Yeah, that's right. He's running on a Mac
Mini.

You know, should name, should we name our
cloud agents?

Should we personalize them?

No, I'm not doing that. It's already
called Claude.

It's already pretty personalized.

Yeah, I know, but I feel like...

I'm gonna call mine Wazowski. Did you look
it up?

It was Mike was asked guy was right.

It was?

He was on a date with his girlfriend at
Harry housings like your janky website

That is,

cannot defeat me.

and now the problem is every time I search
for it,

it's the same janky website I go to.

And so I think Google and Safari is just
like,

okay, I guess this guy loves this terrible
website.

We'll just keep, yeah, but anyway.

No, what Google

is thinking is it probably has AdWords on
it and it's like,

hey, if he's going to keep clicking on
stuff.

That's true. Yeah,

that is true. All right. I want to give
two app shoutouts These are super

fun free apps from listeners of this show
first one is chess piece This

is a free app that you can get just on
your iPhone piece is spelled P E

A C E because it's meant to not stress you
out but it's made to do like little chess

puzzles and so it's like, you know as a
puzzle game,

but chess related and Yeah, I thought that
was super fun.

That was Sam who listens to the show

made that app. I'll put a link there.

And also Stuart, he actually made an app.

This is going to be available May 2nd.

So starting Saturday. This is a My Links
app.

It is also free to download. You can get
it on the Mac and it's where

you can have like your links, whatever you
links you need for your social media,

your YouTube channel, whatever.

You can live in the menu bar on your Mac
and he also has a app that works for it.

But I like the menu bar Mac thing to
quickly get to those links,

whether it's your

threads and blue sky and massadunlinks,

your email addresses, your websites,

all of that. And he was inspired by one of
the shortcuts I built recently

to just make it into an app. And I feel
that's great.

That's awesome. So shout out. All right.

That's awesome.

We talked a lot about John Ternes last
week and the Apple transition.

Then you wrote an article and I loaded it
in on ink.com so fast that

I wasn't able to even able to read her
mode so I can actually

see the article without any pop ups Jason.

I did it. That's the hack. You just got to
load it fast enough and

go into reader mode and look, here it is.

Did it. Well, what did you say the five
things were that every Apple

Yeah.

fan hopes John Ternes will fix as CEO?

I don't know, you didn't read it?

I'll be honest. I read your other article,

I don't remember, no, okay.

but then I saw it in Apple News and it
only showed number five.

No,

it didn't. It took for some reason number
five as the headline.

And then it made the deck like all kind of
jumbled up.

I know as the headline, yeah. So I wasn't
sure.

Anyway, I just think these are the things
I just have been I did a little

bit of research and I was like,

what seems to be the stuff that people
care about the most fix?

Siri, obviously, right? Delivery Apple
intelligence,

Yep. Yep.

right? They were people want someone who
will be a little bit more decisive about

products than maybe Jim Goodenough's make
her Apple Hardware Company again,

Yes.

which I will say I think Apple already.

is a hardware company. I think the
perception,

however, is that it has become a services
company.

That's fair. That's where the growth is.

But I think people would like Apple to
just wow them with some hardware,

which again, perspective is crazy because
like the MacBook Pros right

now are the most amazing. Like everything
is great.

Yeah, it's amazing.

The MacBook Neo isn't I wrote an article
about that.

It's like insane. And yeah, actually,

I took number two and three and wrote a
whole other article about.

But and then they want people to they want
to take some bigger swings like

Yeah.

Let's try something crazy. Like,

let's actually ship some stuff that who
knows.

And then, you know, people don't seem to
like Mac OS very much.

And so they want to fix the software.

So fix that, fix that.

But that was five. I don't know.

I don't understand that as much.

there are. However, as someone who's
working on an app,

both on a liquid glass does some janky
things to some stuff.

Right?

And you're like, this is not good.

And then I was like, well, why can't I
figure this out on my iPhone app?

And then I go to like my bank's app and
I'm like,

no, they have the same problem.

They have the same issue. Right.

So I'll put a link to those articles,

the Apple News articles, so you can read
them there.

But I wanted to follow up because after
your article talking about

the five things we hope you change,

I said last week in the episode,

I was trying to articulate the
decisiveness of Steve Jobs and how turnips
might

be similar. And I was thinking about how
can we judge

a CEO's decisiveness in a product lineup?

And thinking about like Tim Cook has been
able to

arbiter several mature product lines like
the iPhone is a mature product line

the iPad is mature product line AirPods is
getting there obviously the Mac

and So we can kind of see what decisions
Tim Cook has made as a

CEO For product lines that have been
around for 10 plus years like

the iPhone the iPad these are all 10 plus
year Yeah,

even the watch.

even the watch. Yeah, it's been 11 years
So I thought why is it that?

I feel and I think other people have said
that Steve Jobs was a more decisive

CEO because in retrospect, unfortunately,

we didn't get to see Steve Jobs arbiter
the iPhone as a mature product category.

We had Steve Jobs for like the iPhone
through 3GS,

Phil Schiller announced the iPhone 4 and
then that was it.

And so we didn't get to see like how would
have Steve Jobs,

the speed of the iPhone innovation,

how he might've affected that.

And the one lineup, obviously the Mac
lineup,

You could say Steve Jobs was the arbiter
for many years,

although I do think for the years he was
over the Mac,

it was not the same kind of consumer
product as it is today.

It just wasn't, you know, right.

Absolutely, you're right.

It wasn't that pervasive. And so the one
product category I was thinking

the reason why I keep coming back to it is
the iPod was the one category that Steve

Jobs ushered in and was over long enough
to see how he treats a product category.

How would he approach innovation and
decision making for a mature product over
time?

And I feel like iPod is the main example
of that for Jobs.

And so I'm going to include a link to this
Wiki fandom article.

But this is the iPod,

you know, all the iPod models,

basically. And I mentioned last week how,

you know, Steve Jobs, the iPod Mini was
selling like crazy.

and then Steve Jobs killed it for the iPod
Nano.

And as you can see, the iPod Mini was
around for two generations,

and then the iPod Nano was around for
seven,

sold across, you know, all the way up to
2017.

And so the iPod Nano was obviously the hit
there.

But one other example I thought of was
like,

what happens when Steve Jobs made a
decision,

they made a version of the iPod that
wasn't great,

what did they do? And I think two examples
there are the iPod Shuffle that

had like no buttons or anything.

Like, if you were not familiar,

there was the iPod Shuffle that was
literally just like this silver stick.

And I think it had a clip, like a built-in
clip on it.

Right.

And maybe there was like one button on the
top,

but it was not very popular or well
received.

And it lasted for like a year.

You know, like they only made one version
of that.

There was no version two of the buttonless
iPod Shuffle.

And I think that was an example where they
tried something,

it didn't work, and they pivoted quickly.

And...

You you could call it that a failure or
whatever,

but they tried it. And then they went to
like the actual button shuffle that lasted

for multiple generations where you had
like basically a click wheel,

but on a clip. And that iPod shuffle,

I actually had one of those where it was
like a square.

And I remember people would like,

I don't know if it was that one or there
was one with a screen that people would

put like in a makeshift Apple watch holder
or whatever.

Cause they did, I think there was a screen
version.

think it was the later Nanos. So the iPod
shuffle button list was one example.

And then also the, was it the fat nano
they call it,

where it's like squat, you know what mean?

you

And I think they added like video playback
on the squat nano.

And that was another one where I think it
was like a year maybe that they

did that or maybe two at the most.

And then it was like, all right,

forget it. And so I feel like we could see
across the iPod lineup,

what it looks like to have a decisive CEO
that's like,

let's try this thing. And when it works
like the iPod nano,

Let's double down and we're going to make
generations of this and it's going

to be great. And if that doesn't do well,

there's decisive to say, we're not trying
that again.

Let's try something different.

And maybe the iPod hardware was easier to
innovate quicker on,

but I feel like that is what it means to
be a decisive CEO across

a mature product category. And one of the
reasons I'm optimistic about Ternus.

I want to say first of all that the fourth
gen iPod Nano,

which was like tall with a kind of a
vertical window,

Yay

was one of my favorite products Apple ever
made.

I love that thing. It was great.

That's a good one.

~ But I think that what people mean when
they want a CEO to be more decisive,

I think that's the wrong word.

But what they really want is the CEO to
have an opinion about the products in a
way,

Okay.

because I think the single best example

of the angst that has been caused.

Angst is not the right word because that's
like self-inflicted anxiety sort of,

but about the frustration with Apple's
product lineup under Tim Cook

has been things like the AirPods Max,

which like don't get an upgrade.

And then they get there like, we made an
upgrade.

All you did is swap the port to USB-C.

Like you have no idea about what this
should be more than this,

right? That's an example. But an even
better example is the butterfly keyboard.

How did that thing stick around for as
long as it stuck around?

Right.

through

multiple levels of, we have to have a
hardware repair program.

like, no, just say this is broken,

you have to fix it, you have to change
what you're doing.

By the next time we stand up on a stage
and release a Mac laptop,

it has to be fixed. It can never go back
to being this bad again.

That is what people like Steve Jobs would
have done.

Right. And Tim Cook just was not willing
to make those kind of seems like

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

he just didn't have that strong of opinion
about it.

And so he wasn't willing to make those
kind of calls.

It didn't register in his mind.

This is super bad to the people who love
these products the most.

And so we need to make a change.

And so that's, that is, think what people
mean when they talk about it'd

be nice to have a product person who's
decisive.

What they mean is we want a person who has
an opinion about

the products beyond just, I think we could
put a notification in settings

to sell people Apple care.

And I think the risk associated with
having an opinion and being decisive

is something Tim Cook was averse to like
if you look at the butterfly keyboard They

tried for many years to make it work by
doing slight tweaks like they literally

brought a bunch of press We really got it
this time and there was you know,

We got it guys this time three times

John Gruber mentioned I think it was on a
recent dithering But like they brought

a bunch of press people in and they said
how we they put a membrane underneath

the keys of the butterfly keyboard this
way crumbs won't totally break

it because that was the thing the
butterfly keyboards and I think

Tim Cook probably was calculating the
amount of R &D they spent

to make the butterfly keyboard how many
they had in circulation and wanted

to like sell those and not scratch it and
then how much it would cost to switch

to a new keyboard a year later I'm sure
there would have been costs associated
with

that throwing away R &D maybe even
scrapping keyboards swapping

out keyboards of hardware that's

has not sold yet, whatever. And that's
probably a calculation that Steve Jobs
would

have made differently. He probably would
have said the cost of selling

bad keyboards for multiple years is higher
than the cost of scrapping all this

R &D because it's not just a monetary
cost,

it's also a mind share cost in the users
of your products,

the people who are buying it. And like,

it got so bad to a point, the keyboards
like,

I remember Taika Waititi, director of like
Thor Ragnarok,

literally said on the carpet of one of the
award shows,

they asked him something and he was like,

yeah, Apple's keyboards, they really gotta
fix those.

It's like, a director of Marvel movies is
noticing how bad your keyboards

you

are and blasting you on the red carpet,

this is a serious problem. And that's the
decisiveness,

that's what I say when I say decisiveness.

Well,

I think, yeah, sorry, just to close the
loop on this,

one of those terms I hate to say,

but anyway, I think the real problem was
that Johnny Ive had stronger opinions than

Tim Cook did. And so Tim Cook,

so you have these meetings where Tim
Cook's like,

we gotta fix this. People seem to not be
really mad.

And Johnny Ive is like, no, this is the
way it should be.

This is the form of what the keyboard
should be.

Aluminium.

We've gotta get this thing right.

And Tim Cook's like, okay, mean,

Johnny Ive, he's like the product guy,

so like we should probably keep trying to
do this.

Instead of saying, no, I don't really care
that you think that this is

Right.

the way it should be. What the way it
should be is that our customers

are happy with the keyboard because what
they do with the keyboard is type

on it while they're eating a sandwich.

And if it stops working in that scenario,

we haven't designed a good product.

You can't be like, here's the perfect
keyboard if you work in a clean room like

that's not Apple's market share.

Right,

Thank you. That's exactly, I agree.

I also love the idea of Johnny Ive being
like a Groot character

and always sitting in the office and
whenever someone asks him a question

he just says, aluminum, just in different
inflations.

Well, my

11 year or my I guess he's 14.

Sorry, we have two sons. No, no,

He just dropped three years.

no, I was gonna say it was the other one.

But it wasn't the other one. This is a 14
year old.

Every question you ask him, he's in the
phase where he just looks at you like,

don't worry about it. He just feels,

I just feel Johnny Ive every time you said
like,

Okay. Supremely confident. I got it.

we got to fix the keyboard. He's like,

don't worry about it. Actually,

that did not sound British at all.

I don't know what accent that was,

I love it.

but we're leaving it in. And I wanted to,

in honor of the Fat Nano, I did want to
show it.

It was a third generation iPod Nano.

This is what it looked like. And even
though wasn't super popular,

it's still good. And this thing's
scratched up.

I think that

I've never...

was the best feature of it was that it got
a patina.

The iPod Nanos of the time definitely
patinaed.

All right, so there's a lot of AI news and
how AI is interacting with

the Department of Defense and we're
actually gonna do our own little segment

of Brendan Carr. We'll see if we can
license that from the first cast.

I think he said that. Yeah, I think he
said we can do that.

I think it's open source. think we're
allowed to just syndicate it.

Yeah.

But the first big one, Microsoft and
OpenAI amended their situationship,

which OpenAI and Microsoft have been very
intertwined.

They previously had an agreement.

where if OpenAI achieved AGI,

artificial general intelligence,

meaning Chachi Buti would be smarter than
a human.

There was no actual clear metric,

and that was one of the weird things about
this agreement was like,

they're gonna put together a board of
people who decide when AGI,

and who is gonna be on that board,

is it Beyonce, is it the Pope?

Nobody knows. But they have notably
removed that clause in the agreement.

So AGI is now nowhere in this agreement.

And we'll link the actual post.

This is on Microsoft's blog,
blogs.microsoft.com.

But the main points is Microsoft remains,

I'm reading from their post, remains
OpenAI's primary cloud partner.

OpenAI products will ship first on Azure,

Microsoft's cloud service, unless
Microsoft cannot and chooses not

to support the necessary capabilities.

So Microsoft is basically like,

it will run on our service first,

unless we don't want them to. That's what
that sounds like,

It's just the

is that?

first right of refusal.

First right or refusal. And OpenAI can now
serve all its products

to customers across any cloud provider.

So it seems like if OpenAI, and we're
going to get to where they're going next.

Yeah, six minutes later.

Six months later, they can offer somebody
else second Microsoft will continue

to have a license to open AI IP for models
and products through 2032

and But Microsoft's license will now be
non-exclusive So,

okay So chat GPT and other models that can
be licensed elsewhere three Microsoft

will no longer pay a revenue share to open
AI That's interesting.

But fourth revenue share payments from
open AI to Microsoft continue through 2030

independent of OpenAI's technology
progress.

So Microsoft not sharing revenue with
OpenAI,

but the inverse is true. OpenAI is still
sharing revenue with Microsoft,

which makes sense. They're using Azure
servers to run a bunch of their stuff.

So sure.

Well, what

really makes sense here is that Microsoft
is getting money

in exchange for untangling this really
weird deal.

very weird deal. So this is an interesting
addendum to their situationship

and I just want you to know you might read
that word in other articles from major

news outlets. I thought about it before I
read any of those articles.

I wanted to put situationship in the
title.

I just want to point that out there.

Yeah,

but what's really sorry, we're done.

I just wanted to explain to our listeners
what really is happening here.

Well, I was going to well,

what, basically what happened right after
that is open AI made a deal with Amazon

and open AI announced an expanded deal
with Amazon that brings models,

codecs and other tools to AWS.

That was it.

Yep.

What's really happening here is Microsoft
is like,

they're never going to get to AGI with
LLMs.

So we don't really care about that
anymore.

What we'd rather have is money now.

So just revenue share with us,

right? You can go wherever you want
because we're no,

Yes.

the only reason that Microsoft cared about
being exclusive and

not allowing this technology to be used by
any other partner is because they,

because they were being convinced that
there was going to be a scenario where

it becomes AGI and Microsoft would
continue to have a license.

Microsoft and they didn't want anybody
else to be able to have that.

Microsoft still has a license.

They can still use the technology through
2030,

but they're like, we're not getting to AGI
by then.

LLMs are not going to do it. So why don't
we just get,

what do we want from this? OpenAI really
wants to not be exclusive with us anymore.

So if they're to pay us for that,

that's fine. Like we'll take the money.

We don't really care. We get to still use
the stuff.

Like this was probably the inevitable
outcome where the deal just like that
clause

was so ambiguous that how are you ever
going to know?

if it had happened and now there's some
clarity.

We get money.

There's clarity. think it's interesting
that AGI is probably going

to slowly dissipate from the conversation.

I feel like Sam Altman has not been saying
it as much just in the ether.

Plus there's a whole court case going on
right now between him and Elon Musk.

We'll get to in a little bit. I also
wanted to talk about or just mention,

I think the hype marketing of AI has kind
of reached a peak where

in hype marketing, I would say like

Anthropic and mythos saying this model is
so powerful.

We can't give it to the like the regular
public You know like that definitely feels

like hype marketing I think the AGI
marketing that has existed the last like
year

is slowly quieting down and it does feel
like now all the companies

the AI brands Anthropic open AI Google
perplexity now.

It's like alright. We got to actually
figure out how to make a business

now We have to stop shooting or mentioning
these like crazy,

Yeah.

you know

AGI things because I also so everyone was
talking about codecs and we're gonna talk

about the apps We're developing with AI
later in the show,

but everybody was talking about codecs
because chat GPT released their codecs

app It's an app on the Mac that's like
separate from chat GPT and you can

ask it to do Claude co-work type things
And everybody was saying this thing

is amazing. This app is incredible.

It's gonna blow your mind Even federal
give a teach a Mac stories.

He was like codecs is the best computer
use app I was like this sounds amazing.

All right, so I downloaded it

I ran codex, I'm running codex on a Mac
mini.

I was like, let's see what you can do,

bro. That's literally what I told it.

I said, said, codex, bro, let's see what
you could do.

Bro.

The first time I tried to tell it to use
the computer,

it failed. And then I was like,

okay, well, that's cool. And then I,

So not much, you can do not much.

so not much, but then I was like,

all right, if this is really mind blowing,

there should probably be hundreds of
YouTube videos of people showing codex,

doing wild stuff.

because I made my own video about cloud
co-work and actual useful things

you can do with it on a Mac. So I like,

all right, let me go to YouTube.

I searched for codex and I scroll for a
few minutes and I'm like,

all the videos out there right now,

at least the ones that I found,

it was showing codex, guess what?

Doing coding stuff, doing development type
work.

And every video that seemed to be painting
codex is this like everything app.

As soon as I watched a few minutes of it,

it basically all got back to.

It's good at coding. Like that was kind of
the bottom line every time I

got to the the crux of the video and I was
like I felt the hype in real time like

I Hype Made me take action.

I downloaded codecs to try it out I was
even like maybe I to be paying $100

a month for Chatchamutee Let's see what's
up.

And then every time I and then when I dive
into actually like do real things

It just is not meeting the hype and I
think that is becoming

Pervasive across the spectrum.

I think even maybe real people are feeling

I think, okay, first of all, I want to say
a few things.

The hype cycle, the mythos thing.

I mean, it is like the perfect,

basically what they're saying is this
heroin is so good,

it will kill you. And people are going to
give me some of that.

Right. Yes. Yeah,

Please take my money, give me some of
that.

yeah. How much? Where can I get it?

I can't even imagine. There is a segment
of people for whom that

is the selling point. Like this is so
good,

it could kill you. Well, I have to try it.

But I think that the real, like,

I feel like,

My I have been incredibly impressed by
some of the things that these tools can
do.

I just think most people don't know what
to do with them.

And I think we're pretty jaded because the
thing what the thing people really want

to be able to do is to shout out their
phone and have it like schedule
appointments

for them or like whatever. And we're we're
just so far away from that.

Just understand.

Like there's we're so far away from being
like,

hey, order me lunch. Right. Like I could
barely get a person to do that.

Yeah.

We've had this conversation before,

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

but that is that that's when people are
like,

my phone can use itself. That's what they
mean.

Or like, ~ shoot, could you reschedule my
thing?

What we want is the capabilities of a good
human assistant in our phones.

And we're so far away from that at this
point.

And so that's why it feels like the hype
cycle is good.

But like if what you want to do is to make
an app,

I promise you this will work like it'll do
a great job.

Yeah, making an app. Yeah. Yeah.

Or I wanted to do research for me.

I mean, I have to be smart enough to know
when it fails and I have to be able

to do the due diligence to check things.

But it's a

Amazing at that kind of stuff.

And it's great at HTML, like the website
projects that I've done,

Yeah, and it's great at summarizing
things,

like it's It's a great somewhere in the
things.

like all of that language

related stuff is just very good.

But when you do get into the more advanced
uses,

even something like developing an app,

it is work. Like it is not simply make me
an app that does and then give

it a sentence. Like it is going back and
forth and like knowing where something

is broken and telling it where to fix it.

You know, it is a process as you have
discovered and are discovering it.

Yeah,

I think I tried to check this and I copied
my entire conversation with Claude code,

because I'm using the app I'm not doing to
them in the terminal.

And it's like 100,000 lines long,

like just just the conversation.

Yeah, it's all right. Exactly.

Yeah. So

I'm also seeing I saw a reel the other day
of a guy being like or

his his girlfriend or wife. He was like,

listen to how my whatever boyfriend uses
chat GPT.

He's like, if you're using chat GPT in
2026,

you're a bum, you know, something like
that.

He was like, no, what I do is I get chat
GPT to write a prompt that I give

to Claude and then Claude does the work.

Like, OK, that's cool, bro, I guess.

Like, I don't know why.

I mean, Claude can probably write the
prompt too,

but whatever.

Yeah, and Claude,

write a prompt that you could give
yourself to do this,

Right, exactly, You

please.

could probably do that, but I was like,

okay, he thinks he cracked the code.

And then, you know, it's got like 100,000s
of views.

Like, people are like eating this stuff
up,

Yeah, so he

so.

cracked the code of getting views on
YouTube.

Right. Yeah, Instagram Reels. But yeah,

Whatever.

he did. Yeah, that was that. right,

well, I'm to put this because it's also
OpenAI.

But the rumors are, guess what?

The hardware device that they're working
on might not be a PIN.

Not going be a PIN, but it might actually
be a phone,

Jason. Who would have guessed?

Who would have guessed that OpenAI might
have made a phone?

And guess what? It's not going to have
apps because that would be dependent

on app stores. It's going to have agents.

Agents are going to do the things for you.

Yeah, do you think that this is the thing
that they're working on or

do think this is a thing they're working
on after the thing they've

I feel like they,

again, there's some realizations
happening.

AGI, it's like, okay, maybe it's not a
thing.

I think they're realizing like AI hardware
devices,

maybe not super popular. And this rumor
originated from Ming-Chi Kuo,

which you've probably heard that name a
lot from like Apple leaks and rumors,

varying degrees of accuracy, but this is
where this originated from.

And this could, like you're saying,

it could be a thing where like they're
just trying it to see how it does.

But but Jason.

Well, I guess what I'm getting at is if
you read the second sentence,

it says that the company might be working
on a phone that doesn't say

the device the company is working on with
Johnny Ive is a phone,

not an egg or whatever. So I'm just
suggesting like,

don't know what this actually means.

Of course, they're probably working on a
phone because at some point

in the history of a tech company,

everybody works on a phone. Metta worked
on a phone.

Amazon worked on a phone. I think
Microsoft used to do phones like they
bought

Yes. You think they used to do-

Nokia. I'm saying like

What a burn! What a burn.

Right? Google started making phones.

Like, I'm just my point.

just like this product, their Cisco phone
sitting on people's desks somewhere.

Sure, sure. Blackberry. You blame her?

But my point is, everybody wants to make a
phone at some point.

So I don't know that this is saying that
the device that they're working on.

However, it's also entirely possible that
they sat down and they realized,

you know, we're making this device and
it's going to sit on your desk next

to your computer and your whatever.

They did say it would exist with your
phone,

not that it would be dependent on it,

but like it would be the third device that
you'd have.

The third device,

yeah.

But I think

what happened is they realized that if
you're put a device on your desk,

one of the really useful features is that
it should have a screen.

And if it's going to have a screen,

it might as well just be a phone.

That's the thing. And you stole my next
point.

The companies that have tried a phone and
failed.

Sorry

Like you said, the Facebook phone,

this was 2013. I will link Dieter Bohn's
review of the Facebook phone.

It was called the HTC first. And so yeah,

and this was before it was meta.

This is literal Facebook making a phone.

Yeah. It was super bad.

That thing failed. Super bad.

yeah, Amazon. The Fire Phone, it's there
too.

Also garbage.

Also,

Apple did a phone before it did the phone.

Yeah, I'm just saying,

You talking about the Motorola Rocker?

Yeah, I mean that was, yeah. That's fair

everybody's tried a phone.

enough, fair enough. Also, wind,

listen, let's pour one out, please.

You might not agree. For Windows,

I do not agree.

Windows Phone 7. Because I actually
thought it was pretty good.

It just didn't have the apps.

The only thing I can say about it is that
it's better than Windows 11.

that's... Okay. And I'm gonna shout out,

if anybody remembers this phone,

I had this Windows phone, I literally,

I was working at the travel company at the
time,

I took this phone to like Egypt because I
didn't want to bring my iPhone because

I thought I would lose it. And so I
brought the Dell Venue

Pro Windows phone.

Dell

made a phone, my gosh, this is,

yeah, I remember that thing.

This is...

This is the... And it's a slider!

This was a sl... I...

I hope you left it in Egypt. Bury it under
a pyramid.

Jason, I wish I kept it. There's so much
tech in this era where

I was not working in this industry and
that I would buy these silly gadgets,

but I wasn't... I didn't have enough money
to actually buy them and keep them,

so I would sell them. And I wish I had not
sold my Dell Venu Pro.

Look at... Look at how... It looks so
good!

Look at how good this looks.

Hardware was solid, that sliding mechanism
never failed,

it was a sliding, physical QWERTY keyboard
running Windows Phone.

Love that thing. Anyway,

Yeah.

I thought Windows Metro designed you,

I thought it was alright. Please leave us
a five star rating and review in Appapada,

whether you agree or not, and just pour
one out for Windows Phone.

That's all. That's all I want.

Did you ever have a Windows Mobile,

like one of the StarTech, like side out
sliding keyboards?

No, I mean I had a

You never had one of those?

Motorola StarTek but it was not a Windows.

You really, oh, see, this is what started
me down.

I'm sorry, I'm just gonna go off on a
very,

very quick tangent here.

I've had

a Blackberry, I had a Palm Pre,

I've had several Palms that weren't
phones.

I have a pump.

No, but the StarTAC Windows Mobile phone.

I remember in college, it was 2005,

and a friend of mine, he had

the singular StarTAC Windows phone.

It looked like this. This was it.

It was like a slide. And this one actually
not only slid out,

but actually like tilted.

Like the screen tilted this way you can
really get down on some emails

But it looked like they didn't ran windows
mobile look at this Jason.

~ the nostalgia Sorry,

I'm just I Wish I need to make that I'm
gonna make that

feel nothing.

your text tone. I feel nothing This made

You

me honestly like this started me on the
path when I saw my friend using this which

Two years later, he had the original
iPhone.

Also very jealous of that. ~ But I was
like,

this is amazing. And he had to spend three
hours figuring out how to turn

on the hotspot. This way, me on my Dell
Axum.

Do remember that? The Dell Axum PDA.

Sorry. I didn't know this nostalgia bomb
was going to be happening,

but.

Yeah,

I know. I'm looking at the rundown and I
know how much time we have left

This was not in the rundown. This was not
in

and I'm like, we're never getting through
this episode.

the rundown. All right, let's have some
actual news again.

Actually, before we do, we don't have any
sponsors today.

And so everybody gets an ad-free version,

but we have sponsors from next week
through August.

So sponsors are coming back. But just want
to take this moment to thank everyone

who supports the show directly,

including everyone who signed up at The
Deal,

which is literally still going on.

And so thank you to all the members who
support the show.

And secondly, if you want to support the
show and get an ad-free version

for the rest of the episodes,

Plus the unedited with the pre-show and
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But thanks to everyone for supporting
That's it.

That's cool. All right, so I wanted to
mention the White House Correspondents
dinner

there was a shooting and There was Joanna
Stern was actually there

of the tech journalism. She was there with
the NBC and we're not gonna talk about

that event specifically

But in the days after, there's been a
call,

Donald Trump on Truth Social, saying that
ABC needs to fire Jimmy Kimmel.

Because before, two days before the
shooting,

he made a joke about Melania Trump in some
image or video looking like

a expectant widow. And so, not,

I mean, horrible timing. He didn't know
that was gonna happen at

the White House dinner, I imagine.

But yeah, looks like bad timing.

But Trump is demanding that ABC fire Jimmy
Kimmel.

Now if you remember, we've kind of done
this exact scenario like a few months ago.

I was like, haven't we done this one
before?

This is literally a copy paste situation
where Trump was calling for Jimmy Kimmel

to be fired, ABC took him off the air for
at least a week or two,

and Brendan Carr said a lot of things.

And so this is where we are ~ syndicating
the Brendan Carr's a dummy segment from

the Vergecast.

copyright to Neil Apatel and David Pierce.

And we'll leave it to them to go in depth
on this.

But Brendan Carr at the FCC has now said
Disney must

file to renew their broadcast license,

which wasn't supposed to, it wasn't set to
renew till 2028.

Disney had two more years. They are
calling for Disney to renew

its broadcast license now, presumably
because Brendan Carr is going to threaten

to not renew it unless they do something
about Jimmy Kimmel.

And we're recording the show a little
early.

It's actually Wednesday morning.

Something might come out between now and
Friday,

which will point you to the actual Brendan
Carr's Dummy podcast within

a podcast on the Vergecast. They'll cover
whatever changes.

But yeah, this is not great,

again.

Yeah, think the, okay, there's a lot of
things here.

I'm gonna just try to avoid the politics
of it all.

Which is tough because, listen,

Thank you. Thank you.

I just think in general we should,

we probably can all agree that people
trying to shoot up ballrooms super

bad no matter what, okay? So let's set
that apart.

That's bad.

Kimmel's joke, honestly, like,

I think he was, he was like, there's a
picture of Melania and his point was.

I think he was making a joke about the age
gap between the two of them

and then Melania Trump looked really good
in the photo.

And a lot of photos of Donald Trump,

like nowadays don't look like he's super
healthy.

So I think he's making a contrast between
the two had nothing to

do with what happened or any of those
things.

I don't disagree that it was probably an
maybe close to insensitive,

but we want our comedians being
insensitive.

Like that's the whole point, right?

kind of the point. This was the actual
skit by the way and this

We want. Okay. Yeah.

is the image that he's referring to.

Yeah, OK. And we want our comedians being
insensitive.

Otherwise, what is even the point of
having a late night show?

So like that's we don't want them to be
just like the down the middle neutral
thing.

There's also the fact that like the number
of people who have like pointed out that,

you know, Donald Trump has his own history
of not exactly wishing well

on people who have passed away.

Right. And so actual bad things happen to
someone.

Donald Trump's not very nice. But the
Brendan Carr is a dummy thing

is pretty straightforward. Like

You don't I think the excuse he was using
is something to do with like they're

investigating their DEI process policies
or something like that.

Correct.

No, like you just know your boss is mad.

And so you're going to just do the one
thing you like literally have

one thing that you can do. That's it.

One thing you control broadcast licenses.

broadcast license.

That's it. That's your only lever that you
have to pull on.

And so they're going to do it.

And so I don't I don't know what Disney is
going to do.

I kind of feel like Disney doesn't care
that much.

mean, like maybe

I mean, they cared

enough to maybe take Jimmy Kimmel off the
air at least for a week.

We'll see, we'll see. mean, they have a
new CEO,

right? And we just heard that they decided
they're not getting rid of ESPN.

Maybe they're keeping ESPN so that in case
ABC goes away,

they keep their cable channel.

But like, nobody's watching ABC on
broadcast anyway.

Like.

Well, and this is the thing too,

and they talk about this on the Vergecast
a lot,

the FCC has control over over-the-air
broadcasts,

namely cable TV.

Well, they don't hold

on just to be clear, they do not have
control of the over the air broadcast,

Not control.

they have control of the airwaves that
those broadcasts use,

which is a very separate thing.

And it's there should be a the entire
point is those two things are distinct.

They license broadcast spectrum to
broadcasters.

And those broadcasters have a First
Amendment right to do whatever they will

not whatever they want. But they you know,

you can't use a broadcast over the air
broadcast to show pornography

or something like that, right?

There are some standards.

But the point is, because it goes into
everyone's home and they don't want it to,

Right, right,

yeah. But they do not have control over
what's on those broadcasts.

But Brendan Carr thinks that he does
because he has this one lever,

which is the licenses so he can,

it's a real nice channel you got there.

It'd be a shame if something happened to
it.

Right. And I just, the one point to just
keep remembering is that most people,

just percentage-wise, are not watching
this content on broadcast television.

And the FCC and Brendan Carr does not have
the ability to affect anything

on the internet. And so YouTube,

TikTok, Instagram, where a lot of this
stuff,

like that Jimmy Kimmel skit, it's got like
four or five million views on YouTube.

That would be unaffected by anything that
the FCC does because they don't have

influence over the internet.

Also watching an ABC channel broadcast on
YouTube TV or Hulu,

which is owned by Disney. They have their
own TV streaming service.

Right. They have their own live streaming
service.

Right,

exactly. Yeah, it's unaffected.

So we will see what happens in the next
few days,

but tenuous. Tenuous.

We will,

here's the thing, we already know Brendan
Carr is a dummy.

We will know an awful lot about Disney in
the next couple of days.

That's a good point. That's a good point.

So thank you. This has been a syndicated
portion of Brendan Carr's

a dummy podcast on a podcast. Fully admit,

Ours was not as good as the VirgCast will
be in two days.

go listen to that, but it's important.

I wanted to mention it. also back to AI,

Anthropic and the Department of Defense.

If you have not been following the saga,

Anthropic was deemed a supply chain risk
because the Pentagon wanted

to use Claude and Anthropic's AI models.

to do whatever they wanted. And Anthropix
said,

we need guardrails on mass surveillance of
the American people

and autonomous weapon control.

Yeah, you can't kill

people without a human being involved.

They said, yeah, we need these guardrails.

When Anthropic said we need those
guardrails,

the Department of Defense, Pete Hexeth
said,

well, we're going to deem you a supply
chain risk.

And they did. The US government literally
deemed them a supply chain risk,

which is the one thing they can do that
would limit the ability

of other corporations to use products from
Anthropic,

even companies like Apple and Google.

Anthropic has sued. And so there is now a
court case going through whether or not...

They're actually a supply chain risk,

whether that designation can stand.

And in the meantime, everybody can keep
using Claude how they want because it's

being litigated and the companies can't be
stopped right now by this litigation.

Well, Axios had a scoop, which that the
NSA is actually using anthropics mythos.

You remember that model so powerful,

the general public can't use it despite
the supply chain risk designation.

And so it seems as though

even though the Pentagon and White House
said we need to blacklist this company

because of supply chain risk, it seems as
though because they made a model that's

so good, they're like, well, maybe we
actually want to use you,

even though we're not whatever.

And so this Axios article and through
others,

it looks like the White House and the
Department of Defense are trying

to save some face and figure out how they
can maneuver maybe not pushing

so hard on the supply chain risk.

designation that they've already stated
and figure out how they

can bring Anthropic back into the fold of
the Department of Defense.

Yeah,

the only thing I want to say about this is
this is it.

We live in a world right now that is
entirely governed by theater.

None of that, we are not governed in a
world and I don't literally mean

the government. I just mean in general,

we are not governed in this world by
serious people.

In general,

And I mean that in like every sense of
that,

like we talked about Sam Altman's letter.

I don't think he was being a serious
person when he posted like some of that
stuff.

We are just.

Like it is so hard to take any of this
seriously because it's all theater

and that's we have not, you know,

we've been experiencing it for a little
while,

but that is not the way the world has
typically operated in the past.

People typically operate like you can take
someone at their word and

you can reason through things and you have
bad actors.

It's just usually the bad actors were not
in positions like everywhere.

What I mean by bad actors, I just mean
people who are not reliable narrators.

Right. And so like Daria Amadei.

I wouldn't say he's exactly a super
reliable narrator,

right? Pete Hagseth super, super not a
reliable narrator.

Like you cannot have it both ways.

But the thing is, you can if there's no
one who can stop

Right. So, and I'll also throw one more
name into the same situation,

which is when Anthropoc was deemed a
supply chain risk by the White House,

two company, three companies rushed in to
fill the void,

the power vacuum. They were OpenAI,

XAI, and Google. All three of them were
like,

we'll do it. We don't care how you use.

Yeah, not serious people.

And again, I think this goes to your
point.

It's like the supply chain risk
designation.

It's like a threat more than an actual ~
danger.

Like this is a dangerous thing that we
need to,

It's a negotiating tactic. It's literally
just a negotiating tactic.

it's a negotiating tactic. Thank you.

Right. And that's what all these things
are.

And Anthropic surely would want to deal
with the US government for the money.

Because remember, ~ none of these
companies are profitable yet,

except Google. Because AI is not Google's
main business.

But Anthropic, OpenAI, XAI, none of these
companies are profitable.

So any deal,

That means money coming in is what they
want slash need.

And so when Anthropocles deemed the supply
chain risk,

Google was like, hey, we'll do it.

And so much so that the Wall Street
Journal reported just yesterday that
Google

cleared the Pentagon to use AI tools in
classified settings,

possibly even without the restrictions
about mass surveillance

and autonomous weapons. And the employees
at Google are actually petitioning Sundar

Pichai. I think there's a petition right
now.

There's like almost a thousand signers.

It was like 900 something last count I saw
but Google employees

are literally petitioning soon to retire
listen Hey,

don't allow them to do this without any
guardrails like please just

put the guardrails in and this Like you're
saying some of this is theater Some

of this also like I wonder How dangerous
is it?

You know if people inside the company
working at Google Don't want that their
models

being used in this way like what?

you know, not to be like a doomsday-ish,

but like, what is the risk? Like,

what are they actually feeling internally
about this?

Is it just a moral thing? They don't think
it should be used in this way,

like for mass surveillance? Is it actually
a danger thing?

But again, it's the push and pull of the
theater aspect

and the threats versus just the money grab
from the other side.

It just doesn't feel like a good,

good setup. Doesn't feel like a good

Yeah, it doesn't seem good. None of it
seems great.

Yeah,

so I I feel like that's important news
like it's just what's going on

out there I imagine like next election
cycle,

which would be you know, the next
presidential election is 2028 Like AI

has got to be a huge part of that
campaign.

I imagine two years from now

All right, well let's move on to some
lighter news.

I'm curious your thoughts on this.

Apple introduced a new App Store
subscription model.

So up until now, you you could pay for an
app monthly.

You can pay for an app annually and
typically save a little money.

Sometimes there are lifetime purchases.

Well now there's another option.

It's being tested in several countries,

not the US yet. But this is a 12-month
commitment subscription,

meaning if you...

don't want to pay the annual price of like
$30 and you just want to pay

the $3 a month, you can commit for a
cheaper price and just pay that

but commit to paying it for 12 months.

Which feels like, I don't know,

cell phone contract-ish? oh.

No, it's Adobe. This is Adobe's model.

It's like, well,

you can pay monthly, but you've signed up
for I don't like anything about this,

Stephen.

I didn't feel great about it either.

I understand for developers maybe it would
maybe

it would create a better conversion to
paying customers.

But I also feel like if someone doesn't
see the value in the app and wants

to pay annually forcing them to pay
monthly and then not be able to get

out of that I feel like people would be
madder.

People would be more mad.

Yeah, I don't I don't that's why

I don't like anything about this is
because the user experience and as

you said for three weeks in a row,

I'm apparently a developer. I just I don't
think this is a good idea because

you just create the possibility of a bad
experience for people.

And I mean, I know Apple is trying.

Apple is definitely doing more than Adobe.

Adobe has had to start doing more.

Apple is at least trying to tell you that
the subscription you're getting this price

because you've agreed to pay this price
for an entire year.

But even still, I just don't like the idea
that you are trying to lock someone into

something like

that and it has nothing to do with like
the price difference.

I mean, you're right. The idea is you
charge $5 a month or $50 a year or hey,

because you're getting two months for free
essentially or somewhere

in between there, you're to pay $4 a month
or whatever.

Like, I just don't think it's a I just I
don't think it's a good idea.

And I think it's a I understand why Apple
is doing it because it

is probably going to convert much better.

I just don't think it's worth it.

And also, there might be, again,

talking about cost of things, like the
five-star reviews in the middle

of someone's 12-month cycle, if they can't
get out of paying monthly,

Yeah, absolutely.

they're going to leave you a one-star
review.

And I imagine as developer, you can not
have this feature on.

I imagine you could turn this type of
payment off.

I would not be inclined to do this kind of
thing.

Well, I guarantee

that you don't have to use this because I
have set up some subscriptions.

And let me tell you, it's the most onerous
thing I've ever had to go through.

And I've had to root canals. And this is
like,

it was figuring out how to do all of that
was the hardest part

of this entire experience. And so I
guarantee you that this is not just going

Yeah.

to be a thing that's automatic,

you would have to create

monthly subscription with a 12 month
commitment and set a price for it

and attach it to the app and all that kind
of stuff.

Yeah.

That's fine. But so the good news is Apple
is not going to just start offering your

customers some kind of discount.

Right, right, right, yeah.

Yeah, so that was weird. Also,

Elon Musk has sued OpenAI and the trial is
now going on right now.

Elon Musk actually took the witness stand
earlier this week.

Musk was a co-founder of OpenAI and he was
claiming that Altman

and co-founder Greg Brockman tricked him
into giving the company money only

to turn their backs on their aspirational
goal.

Elon Musk is apparently mad that they went
into a for-profit structure.

He feels like opening out was started to
be,

you know, very lofty humanitarian
aspirational goals.

And so he's suing. What is the word is
looting?

Just because he feels like.

polluting a charity,

I think he's saying.

looting a charity. ~ That's what he
claims.

Elon Musk is claiming Sam Altman is
looting a charity.

And look, even though I'm paying for
Bloomberg,

look at this, look at this, Jason.

Yeah, Elon Musk, who notably all the money
he's ever given to charity

are his own charities.

That is a detail, yes. That is the thing.

So anyway, he took the stand. He was,

you know, Elon Musk-y on the stand.

You can read the whole Verge article about
it,

but that case is going on right now
amongst many other that OpenAI are in.

Like, I think the New York Times and the
OpenAI are still in a court case about

copyright and all that kind of stuff,

so we'll have to see how all that shakes
out.

And you wrote an article about the MacBook
Neo.

I didn't want to share. You've written a
few.

I've written a few lately, actually.

Does MacBook Neo still do numbers?

writing about the MacBook Neo.

~ I think there's still a lot of people
who are very curious about

it about the MacBook Neo. And so I did
actually wrote two,

two MacBook Neo stories in like the last
five days or something like that.

I, and I think that there's a lot of
people,

It's a hot product. It's a hot product.

one of them was like, I finally figured
out who the MacBook Neo is for,

right? Spoiler alert, all of you
listening,

it's great. Laptop buy one if you want,

but it's not for you. Like that's like
fine,

buy the MacBook Air or whatever.

Yeah.

But I think that what the reason I wrote
this article is I think it tells

us a lot about we actually had this whole
conversation.

So I'll make this super quick about John
Terneson having an opinion.

Yeah.

What the trick is not how well are you
able to figure out what

to include in a product the compromises
the trick is like how do you know that

we can cut certain things because you
could cut anything down and just offer
junk.

We've seen Windows PCs do this for a long
time.

Right.

They're 500 bucks. They're junk.

What was important is knowing the
difference between where we shouldn't
compromise.

And so this laptop is made out of
aluminum.

They're reusing the iPad Air Magic
keyboard essentially in this

and people like that. It's not as nice as
a MacBook Pro,

Yeah, people like it. It's nice,

but it's proven, it works. It's still a
retina display,

it's good.

right? It's not as good of a display.

The trackpad is not as good, but it's a
good track.

Like they figured out where those
compromises should be.

And that's why I think that we should be
optimistic about.

the ability of John Turner to continue to
deliver because he seems

to understand what those compromises
should be.

Yeah, exactly. That's good. All right,

the last two things quickly. YouTube is
testing an AI search function,

which you would think it already has this,

but this is actually going to show you
like guided answers where if

you wanted to plan a trip or whatever,

I feel like I don't know why this is
always the example that all of these
things

use is like, I'm going to plan a trip.

Yeah.

It's going to show you not only video
results,

but also just information about the trip
and maybe like points

of interest and things like that.

And basically create this like

whole search result report about it?

I don't know. I don't know. It feels like
they're trying to bring some

Either

of the search features of Google and
Gemini into YouTube for some reason.

Yeah,

there. I don't know the reason that's
always a demo though.

I do understand it's because none of these
product people ever plan their own trips.

They all have assistants that do this for
them.

And so this feels like the overwhelming
thing that they couldn't possibly figure

Okay, that's fair.

out on their own. So what and everybody
who watches this is like,

are you kidding? I buy I'm the one who
like,

this is not actually hard. And I prefer to
be the one who looks at

Yeah. Yeah.

the flights and the hotel and the whatever
to make sure it's where I want to stay.

Yeah, fair enough. So yeah, that's the
thing.

And finally, Meta has made a deal for
solar power at night,

which shouldn't make sense, but it's with
satellites.

And it's going to beam sun rays from the
satellites or whatever down

to the Earth for solar power at night.

We're to have data centers and solar power
from space.

There you go.

I don't understand what any of this means,

but it doesn't seem like a good idea.

It seems bad. It seems bad to be either
beaming sunlight at night

What are you thinking, like a geostorm
situation?

to places where the sunlight's not
supposed to be,

Well, it's not bright, it's not like
light.

or to be beaming 18,000 gigawatt hours of
electricity from a satellite down

to earth also seems bad. I feel like I've
seen that movie before and it

did not end well.

It was Geostorm. But I also feel like,

so they talk about this is not like
visible light,

it's not gonna make it bright.

It also wouldn't hurt you if you were like
direct hit with this beam,

I guess, from something about the kind of
light it is.

How do they know?

They haven't done this yet.

I mean, no, they haven't done it yet,

but we know about light. Scientists know
about light and stuff.

It's infrared light.

I mean, it's got meta,

meta's in the headline. It can't be good.

I'm just kidding. I'm kidding.

I'm just kidding. Sort of.

It's gonna be the

metaverse, but no, anyway. Yeah.

This is what they meant. Okay,

great.

All right, quick update for personal tech,

your app. What update you wanna give?

Yeah, yeah.

It's still cruising along. hoping to,

I'm hoping. Thank you to all of you who
have been testing it.

Your feedback has been super valuable.

Even your Stephen, it has been very,

Stephen doesn't really give me feedback as
much as feature requests,

Thank you. I have future requests.

which is fine. I wrote them all down and
it's right there.

I have future requests.

Some of the listeners have given me very
useful feedback and this is

why you beta test things because you can't
possibly experience every edge case

Yeah.

on your own. And so that's been really
helpful both on the iPhone.

There is an iPhone version of it.

And then, and I'm

The Mac version 1.0, once it makes it
through app review,

will be available to people. There'll be a
free app.

There is a subscription, not a 12 month
commitment subscription.

You have my word, I will not do that.

There is an annual subscription option.

Yes.

And then I'm hoping to have the iPhone
version out sometime after that.

very exciting. I am running both the Mac
version and the iPhone version.

Last week you did not want to reveal the
name.

Do you want to reveal the name this week?

yeah, it's

the name of the app is contextually,

which we haven't decided how to actually
say.

But Stephen thinks that that's how I
should say it.

So that's fine. It's it's one of those
words that as I was trying to figure

out the name, I was like, that's perfect.

And then I started saying it. I'm like,

I don't know how to say this word because
it could be like Khan,

No, it's contextly. Contextly.

but it could be contextually or
contextually.

No, it's contextly.

I don't know. It doesn't matter.

That's the name of the app. ~ But yeah,

it's it's been it's been a fun process.

But more importantly, it literally is the
app that I have wanted for

a very long time. And if other people want
it,

You could use it as a notes app for free,

like forever. Like just, you could put all
your notes in it.

You could do all the things and it would
be super useful.

That's great. But also there's some cool
features to it if your brain works

the way mine does.

It is super fun and I highly recommend.

So I'm running right now on Mac and on the
iPhone and it'll be available soon.

You'll hear about here, but it's,

are you still accepting test flight people
or you wanna?

At this point, probably not. I appreciate
everybody who's been willing,

but it's not that I don't want it.

It's just, just to be candid, like every
time it's like the process

of adding someone to the test flight gets
kind of onerous and then,

Yeah.

and then addressing like, ~ shoot,

you're here. So anyway, so.

Alright, well it'll be available soon-ish.

Yeah, yeah. Hopefully in the next couple
of weeks at the latest.

We'll announce it here, you'll hear about
it.

So just squashing all the last bugs.

Next couple weeks of lateness.

Very cool. Alright, I want to talk a
little bit more about AI in

the bonus episode because I have added
some more MCP servers to Clawed

and actually found some more use cases.

But, last thing I'll mention here in the
personal tech,

something for me. I got a bigger stream
deck.

I don't know if you can see this,

I see this.

but...

I will link a picture. I got the Stream
Deck plus XL and

I love it actually. I thought it would be
too big and it'd be too many buttons

Mm-hmm.

but here's the thing. I was using my
smaller Stream Deck for both running some

shortcuts and doing some audio hijack
things and then I had to switch pages

if I wanted to control my video switcher
or have some other controls like

CleanShotX.

type things and I realized if I use the
big one and Elgato sent me this

big one to be clear I didn't buy the big
one they sent it to me ~ but

now that I'm using it I probably would
have bought it because I don't have

to page anything I don't have to switch
profiles or switch pages every control
that

I want is now visible all the time and
they're visually different enough where

I have all like my video switcher controls
in the bottom left all

my scenes for filming and recording in the
upper left yeah lower lower left is

video switcher, upper left controls,

and then upper right is like screenshots
and primary tech daily shortcuts,

and then lower right is Mac power user
shortcuts.

And everything I need is now just like
right there,

always ready to just hit a button and do
it,

and I kind of love it. I just want to say
that.

That's great.

I just want to say that. So we're to go
record a quick bonus episode,

talk about some more AI tools,

and if you'd like to hear that,

get an ad-free version or hear the
pre-show,

primary tech daily, all those benefits.

Click the I want chapters link down in the
video show notes.

You can get it for $2.50 a month or $25 a
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Love to hear that as well. And you can
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Thanks for listening. Thanks for watching.

We'll catch you next time.